Nintendo: Emulation is illegal, criminal, and you should never ever do it. If you do, we will sue your ass, send the Pinks, and then shit fury on you!!!
Also Nintendo:
Needless to say, I will not be buying an alarm clock today.
They literally included emulation starting with the wii
So it is more of a rules for thee but not for me situation. Not you should never ever do it but you should only do it on our hardware with our emulators
It’s tough if not impossible to find now, so I don’t blame anyone for not knowing or believing this to be the case whole google results are dominated by more recent events involving more recent emulation cases. But they have literally in the past made the false claim that emulation itself was an illegal practice. Then later they pretend they never said that and most people never see it. I’ve seen emails from the big N’s legal team making the claim, but it was over 20 years ago. I just have a long memory…
Totally wrong my guy. I do see what you mean, but im claiming to be an exception to the case you have laid out.
Their actions are more important than their words which is why i made my point. Im well aware of nintendos history with going after emulation. They almost rival the mouse
For the record im not defending Nintendo here, i just apprciate honesty and accuracy. Otherwise its just slander and misinformation which we have way too much of.
Anyway their “philosophy” seemingly changes whenever convenient. No slander or misinformation there just sucky reality. You replied to someone mocking actual junk they at least pretended to believe at one point so I wanted to point out they actually have said things like this, coz I legit thought you didn’t know. At that time your other reply calling out their hypocrisy didn’t exist yet.
I mean, their position is that they as the rights holders can republish how they please, but that buying a cartridge does not give you license to play on other devices. You can disagree with them on legal or philosophical grounds but their position isn’t really inconsistent.
You arent wrong and they have every right to use emulation themselves as the legal owners of their products.
The hypocrisy, as i see it, is that they have in the past painted emulation as bad. Fullstop. So for them to have had that opinion, then use it themselves is where they come into being called out for it. Hence the rules for thee but not for me phrase.
And its not a perfect fit which is why i said “more of a” if that helps explain how i intended to mean it
The inconsitency is in their past words vs actions especially where going after emulators is concerned.
No, at least in the US, you can only back up your own ROM if you own the game, not download someone else’s backup. The real problem here is that Nintendo’s (idiotic) stance is ALL emulation/backups are piracy and here they are being hypocrites about it.
Throwback to the NES Classic ROM having a ripper/uploader’s signature in the game code. Because Nintendo didn’t ever bother archiving their own games, and just downloaded ROMs from the same sites they were trying to shut down.
No they have not. If they dumped their own cartridge or had the ROM somewhere in their archives, it would be identical to one downloaded from the Internet. The whole controversy happened because someone saw the iNES headers in whatever release of Super Mario Bros was new at the time. Those headers are added by all NES cartridge dumpers, and the creator of this format developed the NES emulator used by Nintendo in Animal Crossing for the GameCube.
Rom pirates usually trim and sign their releases, specially if they have to break or decode any encryption. These pirate’s signatures have been found in official Nintendo releases. Some of their own emulators have also been found to run piracy emulation software. They are pretty much hypocrites.
Um… they are, and have been for almost 20 years, since the Wii. Or the N64 depending on how you look at it.
What did you think Virtual Console was? How about the NES and SNES mini? What about the “Nintendo Game Pass” or whatever they’re calling it?
Animal Crossing’s original Japan release had NES games in it, and so did the GC rerelease/psuedosequel we got internationally too.
Even better: During the Wii era, the Wiis at the Nintendo Store in New York City ran official Nintendo made software to load games off a connected hard drive, so you could play multiple of their new releases without workers having to switch discs.
It has always been about attempts to prevent piracy and keep control over how people access their games for Nintendo, and they are roughly 10 years behind the curve on modern tech trends.
The problem is that they had stuff like Virtual Console and then decide to pull the plug. Then rebrand as some other feature in an online service, which is yet another service that’s gonna be a wait and see on whether or when they’ll pull the plug again. Forcing people to pay for old stuff over and over again.
They should sell this kind off stuff independently from their consoles/handhelds, preferably something that runs on a PC or any platform.
The NES and SNES mini were great examples of how it could be done, except there too they decided to only make a limited amount, essentially the same as pulling the plug.
Nintendo’s truly an awful company. It’s baffling how often they get praised for their stuff, they only dangle some 15+ year old reskinned game and people forget all about it.
Probably after people learned that nintendo had no proper account system so you would lose your purchases if your console died and needed the hassle of sending it to them for them to transfer to a new console.
I think, like that post mentions as well, that prices were the biggest issue. The points system being a garbage system in the first place, easily a system I would instantly be turned off from, I absolutely hate buying currencies to buy something, instead of just outright seeing the actual prices in the store. But if you’d want to buy a small collection for a couple of decades old games it would add up quickly.
The problem with Nintendo’s always been the insane prices. I’m especially hesitant to buy anything digital or any services from Nintendo. Knowing they could decide to pull the plug any time again.
There is no way to legally buy their ROMs anymore. You can only rent them in perpetuity. When they did sell them, they didn’t forward port your purchases to their next device, which is hilariously stupid, and you know they’d take you to court for dumping those same ROMs to your PC to organize, customize, and play the way you like them. If they just sold these things DRM-free on a web site for me to put in Emulation Station, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
I hate to defend Nintendo, but they used their own Emulators in the NES and SNES Mini (Kachikachi and Canoe respectively). I would be surprised if they just yoinked one from the internet here.
No it is more like saying “What is the point of going to an museum of art when all the paintings and statues are only photocopies and 3D printed replicas”
I won’t be buying a Switch 2 and if I can’t pirate Nintendos games I won’t play them. I refuse to reward them for their bad behavior. Like a little child who throws tantrums they belong in the time out area.
I really love those doofy detachable Joycons. However I have instead gone with the Steam Deck as it is open to the point of allowing custom OS and they advertise capability for DIY repairs.
The emulator they use for N64 on the Switch is also just one of the many options that com up when you Google “We can’t be arsed reviewing our own assembler”
In this comment: Someone who is not familiar with the history of Nintendo selling pirated versions of their own games and ripping off pirate emulators then passing them as their own.
I’d say it started on at least Nintendo 64. The original Japan-only Animal Crossing game for N64 had playable, emulated Famicom (NES) games. Nintendo even ran a special offer to get an N64 Controller Pak with Ice Climber pre-loaded which you could plug into your controller like a game cartridge and play inside Animal Crossing.
Because I’ve worked with the marketing assholes who lead to these decisions, and if you don’t get why they make them and how to get them fired for those decisions, you’ll never change anything.
That’s the difference between being a child, and being effective.
folks thought the same for the Genesis and Atari flashbacks but some tinkering found they were using FOSS emulation. IMO FOSS projects should start charging companies that use their products dependent on scale.
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Nintendo: Emulation is illegal, criminal, and you should never ever do it. If you do, we will sue your ass, send the Pinks, and then shit fury on you!!!
Also Nintendo:
Needless to say, I will not be buying an alarm clock today.
That’s not at all Nintendo’s philosophy.
They literally included emulation starting with the wii
So it is more of a rules for thee but not for me situation. Not you should never ever do it but you should only do it on our hardware with our emulators
It’s tough if not impossible to find now, so I don’t blame anyone for not knowing or believing this to be the case whole google results are dominated by more recent events involving more recent emulation cases. But they have literally in the past made the false claim that emulation itself was an illegal practice. Then later they pretend they never said that and most people never see it. I’ve seen emails from the big N’s legal team making the claim, but it was over 20 years ago. I just have a long memory…
Totally wrong my guy. I do see what you mean, but im claiming to be an exception to the case you have laid out.
Their actions are more important than their words which is why i made my point. Im well aware of nintendos history with going after emulation. They almost rival the mouse
For the record im not defending Nintendo here, i just apprciate honesty and accuracy. Otherwise its just slander and misinformation which we have way too much of.
Better?
Anyway their “philosophy” seemingly changes whenever convenient. No slander or misinformation there just sucky reality. You replied to someone mocking actual junk they at least pretended to believe at one point so I wanted to point out they actually have said things like this, coz I legit thought you didn’t know. At that time your other reply calling out their hypocrisy didn’t exist yet.
I mean, their position is that they as the rights holders can republish how they please, but that buying a cartridge does not give you license to play on other devices. You can disagree with them on legal or philosophical grounds but their position isn’t really inconsistent.
You arent wrong and they have every right to use emulation themselves as the legal owners of their products.
The hypocrisy, as i see it, is that they have in the past painted emulation as bad. Fullstop. So for them to have had that opinion, then use it themselves is where they come into being called out for it. Hence the rules for thee but not for me phrase.
And its not a perfect fit which is why i said “more of a” if that helps explain how i intended to mean it
The inconsitency is in their past words vs actions especially where going after emulators is concerned.
Thats all i was getting at hope that helps
So you admit that emulation is the best way to preserve old forms of interactive media?
It would be pretty cool if they were using Higan.
But they own it. I thought even I could download a ROM if I have the actual game no?
No, at least in the US, you can only back up your own ROM if you own the game, not download someone else’s backup. The real problem here is that Nintendo’s (idiotic) stance is ALL emulation/backups are piracy and here they are being hypocrites about it.
I would not be at all surprised if the Switch NES and SNES emulators are running an open source emulator that they’ve tried to shut down.
Throwback to the NES Classic ROM having a ripper/uploader’s signature in the game code. Because Nintendo didn’t ever bother archiving their own games, and just downloaded ROMs from the same sites they were trying to shut down.
I would. They would have been found out already if it were the case, and they already proved they can develop their own emulators.
Moreover, they’re going to want an emulator that can be managed alongside the rest of the museum software.
They’ve been caught using ROMs downloaded from some ROMs download website, so it wouldn’t be that surprising.
No they have not. If they dumped their own cartridge or had the ROM somewhere in their archives, it would be identical to one downloaded from the Internet. The whole controversy happened because someone saw the iNES headers in whatever release of Super Mario Bros was new at the time. Those headers are added by all NES cartridge dumpers, and the creator of this format developed the NES emulator used by Nintendo in Animal Crossing for the GameCube.
Rom pirates usually trim and sign their releases, specially if they have to break or decode any encryption. These pirate’s signatures have been found in official Nintendo releases. Some of their own emulators have also been found to run piracy emulation software. They are pretty much hypocrites.
I was joking when in a previous post about the museum I said it better not run on any emulators…
So… Why aren’t they selling said emulators and roms? I ain’t gonna travel half the world to play one in an overpriced museum.
Um… they are, and have been for almost 20 years, since the Wii. Or the N64 depending on how you look at it.
What did you think Virtual Console was? How about the NES and SNES mini? What about the “Nintendo Game Pass” or whatever they’re calling it?
Animal Crossing’s original Japan release had NES games in it, and so did the GC rerelease/psuedosequel we got internationally too.
Even better: During the Wii era, the Wiis at the Nintendo Store in New York City ran official Nintendo made software to load games off a connected hard drive, so you could play multiple of their new releases without workers having to switch discs.
It has always been about attempts to prevent piracy and keep control over how people access their games for Nintendo, and they are roughly 10 years behind the curve on modern tech trends.
Either stop supporting them or get used to it.
The problem is that they had stuff like Virtual Console and then decide to pull the plug. Then rebrand as some other feature in an online service, which is yet another service that’s gonna be a wait and see on whether or when they’ll pull the plug again. Forcing people to pay for old stuff over and over again.
They should sell this kind off stuff independently from their consoles/handhelds, preferably something that runs on a PC or any platform.
The NES and SNES mini were great examples of how it could be done, except there too they decided to only make a limited amount, essentially the same as pulling the plug.
Nintendo’s truly an awful company. It’s baffling how often they get praised for their stuff, they only dangle some 15+ year old reskinned game and people forget all about it.
This is an excellent article that covers how and why the VC died.
People say they want it back, but most titles never sold all that well back then.
Probably after people learned that nintendo had no proper account system so you would lose your purchases if your console died and needed the hassle of sending it to them for them to transfer to a new console.
Yeah, I stopped buying from the VC when the Wii U asked me to pay to “upgrade” my games.
I think, like that post mentions as well, that prices were the biggest issue. The points system being a garbage system in the first place, easily a system I would instantly be turned off from, I absolutely hate buying currencies to buy something, instead of just outright seeing the actual prices in the store. But if you’d want to buy a small collection for a couple of decades old games it would add up quickly.
The problem with Nintendo’s always been the insane prices. I’m especially hesitant to buy anything digital or any services from Nintendo. Knowing they could decide to pull the plug any time again.
There is no way to legally buy their ROMs anymore. You can only rent them in perpetuity. When they did sell them, they didn’t forward port your purchases to their next device, which is hilariously stupid, and you know they’d take you to court for dumping those same ROMs to your PC to organize, customize, and play the way you like them. If they just sold these things DRM-free on a web site for me to put in Emulation Station, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
I’d bet the emulators in use are actually publicly available ones. Not anything Nintendo made. Adding to the hypocrisy.
I hate to defend Nintendo, but they used their own Emulators in the NES and SNES Mini (Kachikachi and Canoe respectively). I would be surprised if they just yoinked one from the internet here.
I mean, they’ve done it before in part.
Anyway, what’s the point of a museum of a console maker without showing original hardware?
That’s like saying what’s the point of the air and space museum if they’re not actually flying the planes.
They’re not going to use the original hardware and put wear on them. That’s a standard part of archiving.
No it is more like saying “What is the point of going to an museum of art when all the paintings and statues are only photocopies and 3D printed replicas”
They have original hardware on display.
I won’t be buying a Switch 2 and if I can’t pirate Nintendos games I won’t play them. I refuse to reward them for their bad behavior. Like a little child who throws tantrums they belong in the time out area.
I really love those doofy detachable Joycons. However I have instead gone with the Steam Deck as it is open to the point of allowing custom OS and they advertise capability for DIY repairs.
Yeah I have a Legion Go.
I don’t think they care if you won’t buy their consoles or games anyways.
Reward bad behavior. Go ahead. Lol.
The emulator they use for N64 on the Switch is also just one of the many options that com up when you Google “We can’t be arsed reviewing our own assembler”
I can see Nintendo shutting down his own museum for piratery.
His?
I think they dropped a T
Hits
John Nintendo, founder and CEO?
ITT: people think emulators are only the ones you can download
In this comment: Someone who is not familiar with the history of Nintendo selling pirated versions of their own games and ripping off pirate emulators then passing them as their own.
Did the terms of the emulators they ripped off allow them to? Not saying it’s morally okay.
or the history of nintendo falsely claiming that emulation itself was an illegal practice when trying to bully and scare people into submission…
I mean…
All of those mini consoles (NES mini, SNES mini) are already SOCs with an emulator.
The Switch has a SNES emulator as well
The 3ds was a full on emulation machine. Heck it started with the Wii!
I’d say it started on at least Nintendo 64. The original Japan-only Animal Crossing game for N64 had playable, emulated Famicom (NES) games. Nintendo even ran a special offer to get an N64 Controller Pak with Ice Climber pre-loaded which you could plug into your controller like a game cartridge and play inside Animal Crossing.
Nintendo had uses emulators for a long time. This really isn’t anything news worthy.
Corps are shameless. No amount of hypocrisy is enough to make them reconsider their evil.
Yeah, that shallow appreciation is why you can’t truly understand them, it’s like calling a shark evil when it eats a baby seal.
They are, but you need to understand the system so you can know how they get where they get, and how to counter them.
Don’t just be an angry mother seal.
Why are you here? You’re more cringe than Nintendo right now. There’s absolutely no reason to insult that guy.
Because I’ve worked with the marketing assholes who lead to these decisions, and if you don’t get why they make them and how to get them fired for those decisions, you’ll never change anything.
That’s the difference between being a child, and being effective.
Ooohhh, you’re trauma dumping. Well carry on then. Tell us about the good corps who are just getting ruined by evil marketing assholes.
They’re not, Jesus, what is wrong with you?
They’re greedy and ambitious, but also cowardly.
Saying ‘Nintendo’ doesn’t hurt much, the corporation is almost numb to criticism, it knows it will sell games.
Find the marketing moron responsible and destroy his career, that’s the only way you make a difference.
Do this enough times, and eventually they become more afraid of the community’s wrath than their ambition to get a promotion by kissing ass.
Take down a few VPS of marketing, you’re can start influencing them, because they’ll start community outreach before doing shit.
Corporations are a hard outer shell to protect the sensitive inner meat, don’t attack the shell, take down the inner bits.
The people change, but the streets are always the same.
Eww extremely embarrassing that they used Windows.
not alot of people know linux come on
Edit: I forgot linux is commonly used in servers 🤦♂️ but not rlly much in the home side
The Switch runs a custom version of Android, so they technically know at least one form of Linux
Nope
Doesn’t switch use freebsd
Oops you’re right my bad
It doesn’t? The Switch uses an OS based on the OS of the 3DS which is based on FreeBSD and uses a microkernel.
I realized after the fact; at least it has a posix shell though
everyone I know has heard of it, I’ve told em’ about it.
I only know alot of people who use linux here in lemmy and people who like privacy
Edit: excluding server side
please get a personality
REAL
No
Getting a personality by dressing their PC exactly the same as anyone else? Sounds right!
i never disputed that??
pull a WordPress and force a TOS in the license to say you cannot be affiliated with Nintendo in any way in order to use this software.
they want to emulate their hardware? then they can build their own emulator.
I believe they do have their own emulator. It logically would be what powers the Nintendo arcade
folks thought the same for the Genesis and Atari flashbacks but some tinkering found they were using FOSS emulation. IMO FOSS projects should start charging companies that use their products dependent on scale.
The thing is, we know Nintendo does have in-house developed emulators that they used for Virtual Console and then NSO and the Classic Edition.
It’s fairly likely they didn’t take the effort to port those to PC for the museum, but still.
Agreed I would totally support emus using a business software license just because of how they’re treated by business.
if its under GPL couldn’t they be forced to disclose the source code?
Only if they made modifications