How does that work exactly? You can’t retroactively sue someone over a patent before it was granted… in fact, once you realize the mechanic was already out there, and patent shouldn’t be granted at all.
And even then, the US patent office often will grant unenforceable patents, that then explode in the patent holder’s faces the first time they try to use them.
The granted one in this case is about “the process of aiming and capturing characters”, which they either had to make so specific as to not apply to anybody else, or general enough that there are piles of prior art out there.
It would take time in the court for people to figure that out and they would use ill-granted patents like a hammer.
Indie: Release a new game with unique catching mechanic
Nintendo: “REEEEEE! We have valid patent, so give us all of your profit, assets plus penalty or we will sue you to make you die poor like that one Gary Bowser over there.”
Indie: “WTF?”
Even if Indie developers try to fight in court, they’ll spend multiple years, hundred of thousands of dollars in legal fees and on top of that, because Nintendo have a patent that was stupidly granted by patent office, they can argue on a ground that their lawsuit is not frivolous.
Valve almost died as a company, because of those sort of people before if you watched their documentary, they only won, because the mega-corporation emailed about destroying the evidence.
I know you mean it well, but… Nintendo was always like this. Like the jokes about the CEO handing the African kid 300 million dollar lawsuit because he drew their console on paper is very old.
In Japan, the patents they filed for were “extensions” of existing older patents. The new patents “updated” the old patents and could be used as if they filed when the original patent was. So they were able to file patents after Palworld came out, and then sue as if the patents existed before Palworld. Seems like bullshit to me, but I’m not a lawyer.
I don’t know if a similar mechanic can be used in the US patent system or not.
The Japanese patent system is so, so much worse than the US one. Where things like what you just described are possible. Honestly, Palworld is probably hosed over there. Palworld made a system years ago, Nintendo then patented it, and Nintendo is going to beat them over the head with their Japanese patent.
In the US, a solid defense to a patent claim is to show prior art. In this case, Palworld’s dev can point to Palworld as the prior art if Nintendo sues them; Nintendo’s patent existed after Palworld did. Palworld’s dev can also point to a giant mountain of prior art of other games that allow one to throw an object to capture a monster.
I would love to learn why this isn’t completely stupid, if anyone has a way of explaining. We’d be down entire genres of games if developers didn’t copy each other’s homework.
I saw this video a while back that explained Nintendo’s behaviour and strategy. It’s a bit long and not a direct answer to your question but I found it pretty interesting.
Suing for patent infringement is the nuclear option. It’s a long and expensive legal process that can very much blow up in your face, so companies aren’t rushing to do it unless they really want to.
Nintendo is attempting to bully other game developers. They can’t enforce this patent in the US, but they can wave the patent and a cease and desist letter menacingly at their competitors. Thing is, it’s generating bad will against Nintendo and the first time a company calls Nintendo on their shit, Nintendo is gunna lose. The patent is either so specific it won’t apply to another game or its broader and there is a mountain of prior art.
From my reading, it’s the latter. The patent seems to try to monopolize the idea of throwing an object to catch a monster. Which has been done so, so many times before.
From my reading, it’s the latter. The patent seems to try to monopolize the idea of throwing an object to catch a monster. Which has been done so, so many times before.
Including but not limited to RL millenia before videogames were even invented.
It is completely stupid. There are mountains worth of prior art that easily negate any patent Nintendo would be granted by this point.
Nintendo is a Japanese company, and the one thing you can rely on Japanese companies doing in recent years is not understanding that Japanese law only applies in Japan. They seem to think that they can apply Japanese law to US citizens or companies that conduct business in the US, so whatever strategy they think they can use will be swatted aside by the US government automatically. We have seen this already when Nintendo tried to sue Galoob Toys and lost.
I wonder if PocketPair (Palworld devs) could flip a giant middle finger to Japan’s entire system by refunding all Japanese customers for the game and refusing to sell it in Japan anymore. Japan is the only country where Nintendo could get their way in a patent lawsuit, so fuck 'em
First half of my life it was completely by accident I didn’t own anything nintendo, but I’m glad the second half of my life I’ve actively avoided it, so not a single cent has gone to those greedy motherfuckers.
I owned all sorts of Nintendo products growing up. Around 2005, Nintendo went crazy against roms and hacking, and then when I stopped buying Nintendo products.
I bought some used stuff and… Bypassed security to expand my libraries. But usually it was after the game was like 10 years old.
I’m going to buy a switch two, which they usually sell the hardware for close to cost. Then I’m gonna leave it in the box and wait until a mod chip comes out that lets me play every game for free.
Just get an emulator on PC / Steam Deck. The most likely reason Nintendo went so hard on Switch emulators last year is because they will be able to emulate Switch 2 games with little tweaking (probably just new keys / BIOS). They’ve confirmed it’s backwards compatible with Switch games, which strongly supports this hypothesis.
It’s frustrating how often people need to be reminded of this. Nintendo has repeatedly shown incredible hostility to their greatest fans over the years, and they show no signs of stopping.
They’ve also done immeasurable harm to game preservation, to their own library and others. I cannot ever forgive them for this. Unless you play games in whatever specific way is blessed at the time, they will make every effort to sabotage it. Please do not enable this behavior.
Obviously there will always be new cool games, but also, there’s enough out there already (hell even just in my Steam library alone) to enjoy new content for the rest of several lifetimes. I don’t need Nintendo at all.
I don’t either, but Switch is incredibly nice as a family console. Nintendo has a ton of games my kids like, we can bring it on road trips and they can switch off or play together, etc.
So I have both. Most of my personal playtime is on my Steam Deck, my playtime with my kids is mostly on my Switch, with a fair amount on my PC.
Screw Nintendo’s legal dept, but they make a good product for families with young kids. Even my 4yo can figure out games like Kirby and Smash Bros.
I really want to grab one of the new handhelds, seem so nice, I feel guilty almost playing games on my pc, when I could be using it for other stuff, playing on consoles fine so it might be time to transition to a linux handheld for the ocassional pc games.
(Like it could be rendering for my other hobby with 3d, instead of the gpu going to games)
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Great way to win patent war is making patent claim after their oppenent :)
How does that work exactly? You can’t retroactively sue someone over a patent before it was granted… in fact, once you realize the mechanic was already out there, and patent shouldn’t be granted at all.
I assume that’s why there’s a 95% rejection rate, they’re just fumbling to find any mechanics that haven’t already been used in other games.
And even then, the US patent office often will grant unenforceable patents, that then explode in the patent holder’s faces the first time they try to use them.
The granted one in this case is about “the process of aiming and capturing characters”, which they either had to make so specific as to not apply to anybody else, or general enough that there are piles of prior art out there.
Except anything they try to patent was already done by the GTA V Pokémon mod several years before any 3D Pokémon game
It would take time in the court for people to figure that out and they would use ill-granted patents like a hammer.
Indie: Release a new game with unique catching mechanic
Nintendo: “REEEEEE! We have valid patent, so give us all of your profit, assets plus penalty or we will sue you to make you die poor like that one Gary Bowser over there.”
Indie: “WTF?”
Even if Indie developers try to fight in court, they’ll spend multiple years, hundred of thousands of dollars in legal fees and on top of that, because Nintendo have a patent that was stupidly granted by patent office, they can argue on a ground that their lawsuit is not frivolous.
Valve almost died as a company, because of those sort of people before if you watched their documentary, they only won, because the mega-corporation emailed about destroying the evidence.
They’re just so used to pissing all over everything that they don’t realize when they’re pissing in the wind and getting it all over their reputation.
I know you mean it well, but… Nintendo was always like this. Like the jokes about the CEO handing the African kid 300 million dollar lawsuit because he drew their console on paper is very old.
Yet people still buy their shit.
They opened the way for all the gaming handhelds, tons of options
Yes, to spread out their business. It’s not a nice thing to do, it’s logical and calculated move.
In Japan, the patents they filed for were “extensions” of existing older patents. The new patents “updated” the old patents and could be used as if they filed when the original patent was. So they were able to file patents after Palworld came out, and then sue as if the patents existed before Palworld. Seems like bullshit to me, but I’m not a lawyer.
I don’t know if a similar mechanic can be used in the US patent system or not.
The Japanese patent system is so, so much worse than the US one. Where things like what you just described are possible. Honestly, Palworld is probably hosed over there. Palworld made a system years ago, Nintendo then patented it, and Nintendo is going to beat them over the head with their Japanese patent.
In the US, a solid defense to a patent claim is to show prior art. In this case, Palworld’s dev can point to Palworld as the prior art if Nintendo sues them; Nintendo’s patent existed after Palworld did. Palworld’s dev can also point to a giant mountain of prior art of other games that allow one to throw an object to capture a monster.
Like throwing a net to catch a fish?
Palworld wouldn’t have been half as popular without Nintendo’s constant push to take it down.
It’s the literal reason I bought it and have never even played
Nintendo is quite literally patent trolling
Why “quite literally”? Did they hire an actual troll for a lawyer?
Patent troll means to get patents for purpose of litigation rather than to produce goods.
Yes
Like a bridge one
Fuck Nintendo.
I would love to learn why this isn’t completely stupid, if anyone has a way of explaining. We’d be down entire genres of games if developers didn’t copy each other’s homework.
I saw this video a while back that explained Nintendo’s behaviour and strategy. It’s a bit long and not a direct answer to your question but I found it pretty interesting.
https://youtu.be/8apzrwv75i0
This was really revealing. I didn’t know Palworld was now Sony’s. It basically now makes this Nintendo Vs Sony.
Suing for patent infringement is the nuclear option. It’s a long and expensive legal process that can very much blow up in your face, so companies aren’t rushing to do it unless they really want to.
It’s not a great system.
Nintendo is attempting to bully other game developers. They can’t enforce this patent in the US, but they can wave the patent and a cease and desist letter menacingly at their competitors. Thing is, it’s generating bad will against Nintendo and the first time a company calls Nintendo on their shit, Nintendo is gunna lose. The patent is either so specific it won’t apply to another game or its broader and there is a mountain of prior art.
From my reading, it’s the latter. The patent seems to try to monopolize the idea of throwing an object to catch a monster. Which has been done so, so many times before.
Including but not limited to RL millenia before videogames were even invented.
Imagine trying to throw a lawsuit at a rodeo for video game patent infringement
It is completely stupid. There are mountains worth of prior art that easily negate any patent Nintendo would be granted by this point.
Nintendo is a Japanese company, and the one thing you can rely on Japanese companies doing in recent years is not understanding that Japanese law only applies in Japan. They seem to think that they can apply Japanese law to US citizens or companies that conduct business in the US, so whatever strategy they think they can use will be swatted aside by the US government automatically. We have seen this already when Nintendo tried to sue Galoob Toys and lost.
Well, to be fair when it comes to not understanding that their law doesn’t apply world-wide Americans are also right up there in the top ranks.
It is completely stupid. There is a reason the stereotypes about Japanese businessmen are what they are.
Scumtendo strikes again
They should force Gamefreak to make a better Pokemon game. That would teach Pal World a lesson.
Nintendo: But that’s haaaaaaard. Me money now.
I mean, TPC can just kind of leave and make mobile games.
Wait, that world be an improvement.
I wonder if PocketPair (Palworld devs) could flip a giant middle finger to Japan’s entire system by refunding all Japanese customers for the game and refusing to sell it in Japan anymore. Japan is the only country where Nintendo could get their way in a patent lawsuit, so fuck 'em
Wouldn’t work. This has nothing to do with Japanese customers or Japanese laws. These aren’t even in Japanese courts. It’s US patents.
Nintendo’s patents, or the single one i should say, wouldn’t hold up or even apply to palworld in America, they will in Japan.
The only enforceable patents they have are Japanese. This is an attempt to get US ones.
deleted by creator
Nintendo, a Japanese company in Kyoto, using American courts to stop Pocketpair, a Japanese indie studio in Tokyo, from selling Pal world.
What the hell.
Good god they’re such fucking losers.
Are you trying to make everyone hate you, Nintendo? Give it up already.
First half of my life it was completely by accident I didn’t own anything nintendo, but I’m glad the second half of my life I’ve actively avoided it, so not a single cent has gone to those greedy motherfuckers.
I owned all sorts of Nintendo products growing up. Around 2005, Nintendo went crazy against roms and hacking, and then when I stopped buying Nintendo products.
I bought some used stuff and… Bypassed security to expand my libraries. But usually it was after the game was like 10 years old.
Fuck Nintendo. Vote with your wallets and don’t buy a Switch 2, get a Steam Deck or other similar portable gaming handheld.
Switch 2?
More Like “Switch to Steamdeck” ( ☞˙ワ˙)☞
Steam deck 2 is just around the corner
I hear it’s launching with HL3.
and bot detection for TF2
Forget that, it’ll have TF3.
Pure speculation
What ?! Already a power boost / gen-gap to fill?
No. They have no proof. We know Valve’s working on something but they always are and nobody knows what it is
I think they are just baking a cake. Delicious moist cake.
Source: It was revealed to me in a dream.
Damnit… And I just got a steam deck on Monday.
(You’re good, steam deck 2 soon is very unlikely)
I hope so, I don’t even really need much more power, but I’ll be a day one buyer to support the platform.
I’ll hand the steamdeck 1 down to my wife for stardew, if she wants it.
Deck 2 probably won’t come out before the next generation of chips at least
I’m going to buy a switch two, which they usually sell the hardware for close to cost. Then I’m gonna leave it in the box and wait until a mod chip comes out that lets me play every game for free.
It’s cheap becuaus it’s as powerful as an old phone.
Just get an emulator for the steam deck
Just get an emulator on PC / Steam Deck. The most likely reason Nintendo went so hard on Switch emulators last year is because they will be able to emulate Switch 2 games with little tweaking (probably just new keys / BIOS). They’ve confirmed it’s backwards compatible with Switch games, which strongly supports this hypothesis.
I don’t like the weight of the steam deck. I like the form factor of the switch. I also like doing hardware mods. It’s fun to do.
deleted by creator
Are you saying the Switch “1” was not hacked?
It’s frustrating how often people need to be reminded of this. Nintendo has repeatedly shown incredible hostility to their greatest fans over the years, and they show no signs of stopping.
They’ve also done immeasurable harm to game preservation, to their own library and others. I cannot ever forgive them for this. Unless you play games in whatever specific way is blessed at the time, they will make every effort to sabotage it. Please do not enable this behavior.
Well said, I agree 100%
Obviously there will always be new cool games, but also, there’s enough out there already (hell even just in my Steam library alone) to enjoy new content for the rest of several lifetimes. I don’t need Nintendo at all.
I don’t either, but Switch is incredibly nice as a family console. Nintendo has a ton of games my kids like, we can bring it on road trips and they can switch off or play together, etc.
So I have both. Most of my personal playtime is on my Steam Deck, my playtime with my kids is mostly on my Switch, with a fair amount on my PC.
Screw Nintendo’s legal dept, but they make a good product for families with young kids. Even my 4yo can figure out games like Kirby and Smash Bros.
I really want to grab one of the new handhelds, seem so nice, I feel guilty almost playing games on my pc, when I could be using it for other stuff, playing on consoles fine so it might be time to transition to a linux handheld for the ocassional pc games.
(Like it could be rendering for my other hobby with 3d, instead of the gpu going to games)
Fuck software patents.
Palworld does what Nintendon’t
What about the last one?