I mean the point of all rating systems in the US was fear of government regulation of content and having to fight that particular legal battle. It basically exists because moral busybodies were upset about Night Trap, Mortal Kombat and Doom.
I wish lawmakers had some balls on this subject. If there’s gambling, they should have to register as a gambling company and comply with all the other restrictions on gambling advertisements in each jurisdiction.
The problem here is that Baltaro does not have gambling. It just uses cards and chips as the basis for playing the game. Like Magic the Gathering or Inscryption.
There used to be ante in MTG. You’d play for cards in each other’s decks and were to keep them if you won the game. Plus, there were a number of cards actively interacted with the ante’d cards and added or changed what’s in the ante
They also base it on poker, yeah cards can transform each other but it’s still quite literally a poker game. This isn’t MTG. (Which is just real life loot boxes)
But poker is only a gambling game because when you play it you “give up” something of value in the hope of winning more through playing and randomness. What makes it gambling is not the cards or the chips it’s the gambling aspect. Balatro uses card and poker hands, and so does “yatzhee”, but it does not use any gambling mechanic. Lootboxes on the other hand use gambling mechanic.
Although you may be right about why they did it, I feel like imagery of gambling is not meant to be ‘something that is in any way related to something that happens to be gambling’, it’s when gambling is shown but you’re not the one gambling. If someone in game is gambling that’s imagery, if a game uses cards for something that is not gambling it’s not imagery.
I did. I’m not going to go buy it for this though. They literally use poker terms, poker imagery, and real poker hands. Saying it’s just because there’s cards involved is disingenuous.
You could use the same for majong or pachinko like games like Peggle. The issue is the actual gambling, not just the game elements or risk, reward, and points going up. Loot boxes are 10× worse.
This isn’t really new. Solitaire has had ads for over a decade now since Windows 8, and there is a monthly premium subscription to remove them. As I understand it they also don’t show during offline play, but might be wrong about that.
If it makes you feel better/worse, the subscription is shared across multiple games. I was playing a bunch of Microsoft Jigsaw at one point (don’t ask), and while you could play as much as you’d like for free, the fact that they squeezed ads into it to extort you (or more likely, clueless older people) really cheapened the whole thing.
They had a lot of pretty photos which were probably not free, but come on, this is Microsoft, they have the money. I think this should’ve been bundled with Windows for free. I truly think a lot of people might even look back on it fondly the way they do with a lot of the older bundled-in games. We will take for granted how much the default option with any sort of technology around us has an impact on us as kids. Maybe not everyone, but not everyone loved pinball or inkball.
Actual textbook enshittification: what was once a space for a nice default thing to fall back on if you were bored and had their operating system has now become an “opportunity” to “generate more business.” Very sad. Computers are impossibly wonderful machines, everyone who has access to one should be able to enjoy a few basic things, packed in, for free - with no strings attached (looking at you candy crush).
I’m sure there’s a nice free or paid jigsaw game made with love out there that could satisfy that itch I felt that one week in 2020. Hm.
Edit: I have now redownloaded Microsoft Jigsaw and might just expand this comment into a full post/rant about the state of modern consumer software through the lens of Microsoft’s current casual games suite
There are daily challenges and things like that which is what I would refer to as online play. Not that crazy imho of you’ve put thousands of hours into vanilla solitaire that you may welcome something to spice it up.
I can’t speak for other people, I don’t even play solitaire. Realistically, I imagine most people get new PCs with newer Windows versions and play whatever solitaire is on there.
I can’t see any news that you can ‘pay to remove ads’ but lots of “how do i remove ads in solitaire” with settings instructions or registry edits so i think op is only half right
Hngh. Balatro already had a bunch of hassle on Switch eShop due to the PEGI ratings change.
Earlier, Nintendo somehow got a PEGI 12 rating for 51 Worldwide Games, which includes poker and blackjack. I wonder what they argued to avoid the 18 rating. “Sure, this compilation has poker and blackjack, but it’s not like we made it fun.” (It’s adequate but compared to Balatro it’s very much a non-frills experience.)
“sure our game has gambling elements, but we’re Nintendo so shut the fuck up and give us a better rating because you’re a private company in the business of giving ratings”
Wut? Pan European Game Information (PEGI) is the European equivalent of ESRB. Their ratings matter because they have an obvious bias against indies, which hurts their sales.
The thing is, this is likely going to affect their sales to some degree.
As a parent, you may have age lock on your child’s account, or search games by rating, or just not know what this game is when asked to buy it but judging by rating.
I don’t know how significant of an impact that is, but it’s unfair.
I think they’ve done them a favour in a way. If this was day one then it might hurt them but they’re past the point of like 90% of their sales I bet, and now pegi looking like incompetent dinosaurs is just a free second wave of social media exposure
Fuck PEGI, their ratings always sucked and weren’t useful at all. Full blown swearing? 13+. One cigar through 500 hours of gameplay? Adults only. Never cared, never will.
He probably forgot to funnel millions of dollars to non-profits and businesses adjacent to PEGI decisionmakers and their family members. Rookie mistake.
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Are all game rating systems just complete and utter garbage? Dare you to find a good one.
The ESRB isn’t awful, it’s not perfect of course, but I think it’s pretty dang good for what it is.
I mean the point of all rating systems in the US was fear of government regulation of content and having to fight that particular legal battle. It basically exists because moral busybodies were upset about Night Trap, Mortal Kombat and Doom.
Yes, this is true. And I think the industry managed to pull together a pretty decent one.
Critiquing Doge on steam
Wait, wasn’t this already an issue a while back and wasn’t that resolved?
It was banned by a few countries for looking like a gambling game which was a separate thing, now it’s just rated as an adult game by PEGI.
Right - I was thinking of the brief store pull.
But I thought that got resolved with the game getting the 18+ PEGI rating back in March already?
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/03/balatro-back-on-switch-eshop-in-europe-with-new-age-rating
Or was it like a provisional rating?
I would give proprietary software 18+ rating too, nobody know what’s inside.
When I was young I always wondered why the nhl games had a 16+ rating and Fifa had 3+. Figured both of them where ordinary sports.
Apparently fighting automatically shoots that nhl rating to the same level as GTA and balantro.
I wish lawmakers had some balls on this subject. If there’s gambling, they should have to register as a gambling company and comply with all the other restrictions on gambling advertisements in each jurisdiction.
The problem here is that Baltaro does not have gambling. It just uses cards and chips as the basis for playing the game. Like Magic the Gathering or Inscryption.
Is there betting (such as buy-in / ante) in Balatro?
Is there in MtG?
There used to be ante in MTG. You’d play for cards in each other’s decks and were to keep them if you won the game. Plus, there were a number of cards actively interacted with the ante’d cards and added or changed what’s in the ante
No, there are no bets, no buy in.
Using chips is even a stretch honestly. There are some chip imagery here and there but otherwise ‘chips’ are just how points are called.
deleted by creator
They also base it on poker, yeah cards can transform each other but it’s still quite literally a poker game. This isn’t MTG. (Which is just real life loot boxes)
But poker is only a gambling game because when you play it you “give up” something of value in the hope of winning more through playing and randomness. What makes it gambling is not the cards or the chips it’s the gambling aspect. Balatro uses card and poker hands, and so does “yatzhee”, but it does not use any gambling mechanic. Lootboxes on the other hand use gambling mechanic.
Which is why PEGI didn’t say it was literally gambling, they said it was imagery of gambling.
Although you may be right about why they did it, I feel like imagery of gambling is not meant to be ‘something that is in any way related to something that happens to be gambling’, it’s when gambling is shown but you’re not the one gambling. If someone in game is gambling that’s imagery, if a game uses cards for something that is not gambling it’s not imagery.
Windows comes bundled with solitaire. How is it allowed in schools?
Give the kids Linux! Build a generation of superusers!
Supertux depicts imagery of speeding, misdemeanor and felony. +18 Age rating for Torvalds and all of his derivatives.
Because you don’t place bets on your solitaire hand.
Maybe look into the game being discussed even a little before commenting on it.
I did. I’m not going to go buy it for this though. They literally use poker terms, poker imagery, and real poker hands. Saying it’s just because there’s cards involved is disingenuous.
You could use the same for majong or pachinko like games like Peggle. The issue is the actual gambling, not just the game elements or risk, reward, and points going up. Loot boxes are 10× worse.
No, we know that stuff that glorifies addictive activities can recruit or cause relapse as well.
And yet you say it’s cause of “gambling”. So you’re either lying about looking into it or lying about what you saw.
This is all on their steam page dude.
So lying about looking into it. Got it.
I think the current microsoft version of solitaire has microtransactions and ads so is actually significantly worse
MTX and ads? Then it’s clearly only 3+ and should be allowed lol
They added micro transactions and ads to fucking solitaire? How have I not heard about this till now…
iirc it’s a subscription too
This isn’t really new. Solitaire has had ads for over a decade now since Windows 8, and there is a monthly premium subscription to remove them. As I understand it they also don’t show during offline play, but might be wrong about that.
Offline play? It’s SOLITAIRE. Offline play should be the ONLY play, by default.
Feeling like I took crazy pills this morning…
If it makes you feel better/worse, the subscription is shared across multiple games. I was playing a bunch of Microsoft Jigsaw at one point (don’t ask), and while you could play as much as you’d like for free, the fact that they squeezed ads into it to extort you (or more likely, clueless older people) really cheapened the whole thing.
They had a lot of pretty photos which were probably not free, but come on, this is Microsoft, they have the money. I think this should’ve been bundled with Windows for free. I truly think a lot of people might even look back on it fondly the way they do with a lot of the older bundled-in games. We will take for granted how much the default option with any sort of technology around us has an impact on us as kids. Maybe not everyone, but not everyone loved pinball or inkball.
Actual textbook enshittification: what was once a space for a nice default thing to fall back on if you were bored and had their operating system has now become an “opportunity” to “generate more business.” Very sad. Computers are impossibly wonderful machines, everyone who has access to one should be able to enjoy a few basic things, packed in, for free - with no strings attached (looking at you candy crush).
I’m sure there’s a nice free or paid jigsaw game made with love out there that could satisfy that itch I felt that one week in 2020. Hm.
Edit: I have now redownloaded Microsoft Jigsaw and might just expand this comment into a full post/rant about the state of modern consumer software through the lens of Microsoft’s current casual games suite
There are daily challenges and things like that which is what I would refer to as online play. Not that crazy imho of you’ve put thousands of hours into vanilla solitaire that you may welcome something to spice it up.
Damn I have fond memories of those games back in xp and 7 era but ig enshitification is evitable when it comes to Microsoft
Why, how, the fuck do you add microtransactions to fucking solitaire?!
Step 1: Add ads into [insert app of choice here] that are really annoying
Step 2: Make people pay to get rid of them. Bonus points if it’s a subscription
Step 3: People hate your app but it’s the one that’s installed by default so they use it anyway
Step 4: Profit
The fact that this business model earns moneu rather than car bombs annoys me.
It’s not really micro transactions as much as it is a monthly subscription to remove ads.
Its fucking solitaire you can play the old version from windows 95 online for free. This is beyond fucking stupid.
If that satisfies you then all the power to you.
Im a Utilitarian to a fault, of course I think the windows 95 version is just as valid. I wear everything down to scrap.
Real question, why wouldn’t the win95/xp version satisfy someone? Isn’t it the same thing with simpler graphics?
I can’t speak for other people, I don’t even play solitaire. Realistically, I imagine most people get new PCs with newer Windows versions and play whatever solitaire is on there.
I also don’t think it comes pre-installed anymore, you have to get it through Microsoft’s meme store that no one uses.
You’re being funny, right? Tell me you’re just kidding
I can’t see any news that you can ‘pay to remove ads’ but lots of “how do i remove ads in solitaire” with settings instructions or registry edits so i think op is only half right
Jesus I’m so glad I moved to Linux
NBA 2K literally had slot machine in it. System is corrupt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46MQ1ZMZ-l4
3 and older game.
Just right up front with the card pack gambling mechanic.
Gotta love how they saved the literal slot machine for a minute in to the video so it wouldn’t be too obvious.
Hngh. Balatro already had a bunch of hassle on Switch eShop due to the PEGI ratings change.
Earlier, Nintendo somehow got a PEGI 12 rating for 51 Worldwide Games, which includes poker and blackjack. I wonder what they argued to avoid the 18 rating. “Sure, this compilation has poker and blackjack, but it’s not like we made it fun.” (It’s adequate but compared to Balatro it’s very much a non-frills experience.)
“sure our game has gambling elements, but we’re Nintendo so shut the fuck up and give us a better rating because you’re a private company in the business of giving ratings”
I believe 51 Games came out right before the stricter PEGI policy. Same year at least. The whole thing is very silly.
Might as well go all in on that new rating.
Balatro 1.5 Patch Notes.
All the Jokers now hang dong.
Big naturals Queens are worth double.
Why should we care what a talking horse pseudo-plinco game thinks should be the age rating of their competitors?
That’s the fun part, you don’t have to care. The first and only step is to just keep scrolling—better luck next time.
Wut? Pan European Game Information (PEGI) is the European equivalent of ESRB. Their ratings matter because they have an obvious bias against indies, which hurts their sales.
I was jokingly referring to PEGGLE
Ah. I’m guessing most people missed the joke :)
Yeah they should’ve gone with Hank Hill’s wife
It’s a good question
Steer clear of clowns emojis, bub.
let’s just do like all parents buying the last Call of Duty to their 10-year-old and just don’t give a fuck about PEGI.
The thing is, this is likely going to affect their sales to some degree.
As a parent, you may have age lock on your child’s account, or search games by rating, or just not know what this game is when asked to buy it but judging by rating.
I don’t know how significant of an impact that is, but it’s unfair.
I think they’ve done them a favour in a way. If this was day one then it might hurt them but they’re past the point of like 90% of their sales I bet, and now pegi looking like incompetent dinosaurs is just a free second wave of social media exposure
One of the big advantages of steam and online storefronts in general is that it bypasses PEGI / ESRB and their unnecessary Draconian nonsense.
Fuck PEGI, their ratings always sucked and weren’t useful at all. Full blown swearing? 13+. One cigar through 500 hours of gameplay? Adults only. Never cared, never will.
Violence and gore? 13+. Some boobs? Adults only.
Killing good, love bad.
If anybody knows about love it’s rimjob_rainer.
And people pretend that only American ratings systems pull this kind of bullshit.
He probably forgot to funnel millions of dollars to non-profits and businesses adjacent to PEGI decisionmakers and their family members. Rookie mistake.