To summarize or if the link breaks, one of the devs “knew beforehand” they’d have to require PSN accounts post launch, but disabled them for a smooth launch. That’s interesting, but as long as Sony was acting as publisher I feel like the blame still goes on them for selling the game to non-PSN countries initially.
I never ended up refunding my copy, but I’m certainly not gonna give a single cent to the live service side of the game. I already hadn’t paid for anything, but was considering it before this shitshow. Now, I think I’ll just buy copies of Magicka and throw them at friends to try and support Arrowhead.
You don’t owe Arrowhead anything. They’re not a dog, they’re a company who’s made bad choices and now has to deal with them.
What use is a good game if you get blocked out or exploited trying to play it? Do you really want to give your money away? Ok, but stop wondering why the industry is going to shit. It’s because of gamers with more money than sense.
Again, why do you care? You paid for a product. That product is now different from what it was supposed to be. You’ve been screwed and switch-baited. Why do you care what unholy combination of companies led to this? If it were any other industry and any other type of product you’d be screaming murder. But because it’s games we find excuses.
Yeah exactly. And it’s often the only feedback that gets any attention unfortunately. It was getting media attention and getting very loud.
Plus the whole thing was just stupid. They could have accomplished exactly the same thing with little backlash by offering some little in-game trinket for voluntarily linking a PSN account where it was possible to get one. This wasn’t my idea, I saw it somewhere on Lemmy, but that person needs to get a job at Sony stat because the chucklefucks working there now have no clue.
and this is why i wish people would make it profitable, fuck AAA titles, give your money to indies who respect the consumers and actually just want to make a fun game.
I wish game devs would found a union that helps developers fund and publish games with no profit incentive, it seems like such an obvious thing to do and has the potential to revolutionizing how people create and play games.
No longer would we be beholden to companies, no longer would developers have to compromise their works for profit, no longer would players have to tolerate predatory bullshit.
Just good games made by passionate people who are happy to have people enjoy their works while being able to afford to live on it.
That’s what I normally do - pirate or ignore AAA’s, but always buy indies.
The problem with the union idea is that most games just won’t pay off huge investments, so there needs to be someone competent who filters out profitable games, and funds games based on expected returns…and at that point we get, essentially, a publisher company. Or maybe a cooperative. But barely a union.
OK now they can go ahead with plan B where they allow you to link your PSN account to get some super cool cosmetic. I wonder what the reaction of the consumers will be then.
Except now many loyalty cards are now required to get sale prices that were previously available without them. It is a bleak world where folks have to potentially choose between affording groceries and protecting their privacy.
I really don’t see the problem, provided it is cosmetic. If you don’t want to link, you don’t get a glittering, whatever in game. If you don’t mind sharing your datas, then you get the shiny thing (and everyone knows you don’t mind sharing your datas).
So if you mind sharing your data, don’t get the shiny. You know it will become like that shiny pony back in wow’s wrath expansion. It told you more about the person than anything else.
There are legitimate reasons for the devs and Sony to want your psn account linked. It’s also reasonable to not want to do so. Why not offer a compromise, like any healthy relationship, and allow, not force, account linking, with a little incentive? Where is the downside to either party?
Longer answer: The access hadn’t been removed yet, as the update that would enable account linking wasn’t pushed yet. As for the Steam side, I’m pretty sure people who already had the game installed should’ve had access still, although updates and general unsureness definitely could be obstacles. With this tweet, however, the update is no longer coming, and were just waiting for Sony/Valve to lift the selling/installing restrictions in those countries.
Steam only removes games from the store, and doesn’t remove games from anyone’s library. Those affected people, if they didn’t refund, will still have HD2 in their library. There is also never install restrictions/blocking.
Translation: We’re trying multiple predatory methods to see how far we can push PC players and figure out what we can get away with, compared to all the shit shows we successfully pulled off on our own platform.
What’s wild to me is they’re making their own overlay for their PC games. Ghost of Tsushima is supposed to be the first release title with it. Do they not understand steam already has an overlay? I feel like 2 overlays would just compete and be obnoxious and possibly ever impact performance.
Also, why? If it is for co-op crossplay, just make linking PSN to Steam optional, and state it is needed for inviting/grouping with any PS5 friends. Then do what every other multiplatform game does and show 2 friends list in the game.
No, a bunch of people here just need to be outraged about something all the time, and pessimistic about everything.
Nothing can ever be even modestly positive. Everything - everything - has to be bad and negative all the time. If it was a cute puppy video, there’d be a bunch of comments about how puppy farms are evil and etc.
You just know that there used to be an “…at this time” at the end of that sentence and some good PR folk edited it out because managers are out of touch douches.
Negative reviews should remain until the purchase restrictions put in place on Steam for non-PSN countries have been reverted.
Until then this looks like a temporary move for damage control and they’ll try this again when refunds are less likely and wont be from restricted countries.
There was a theory that the purchase restrictions were put in place by Valve, not Sony (because those countries couldn’t make an account without violating TOS). If so, Valve might shortly remove the restrictions.
I hope Valve never does this. Tons of games on Steam only work with community fixes, it sets a bad precedent if they pull them because they don’t work in their official state.
It’s better to have them then not, I would just force a disclaimer during sale for abandoned titles that most players have reported that the game does not function without community patches.
Well the guy who made GotR to get saints row working died a few years back and AFAIK the game is effectively nonfunctional for the majority of people who buy it. Those people paid for a product that they cannot use. They could go emulate the game for free and it would run better.
Plus, the owners of the title have a functioning PC version sold elsewhere than Steam. They could easily remedy this if Steam took away their listing.
Valve can remove games from sale for any reason they like - it’s been a point of consumer contention when they are accused of censorship for certain risque anime games, too.
They can completely remove a game from sale if it turns out to be bricking people’s computers or function terribly. (Sony did this with Cyberpunk on PSN, without CDPR’s approval)
There may be suspicion the game is not legitimate for sale, for instance it illegally uses someone else’s work.
Going country-specific, if a game is revealed to be slightly less than universally positive to the perfectly infallible, totally-not-genocidal Chinese Communist Party, they may want to stop sales in China.
If a game lets you buy it in Tanzania, download it in Tanzania, and then to play, has you sign an agreement that says “I truthfully state that I do not live in Tanzania”, then that bone-headed agreement reflects poorly on Valve, so they have almost a legal need to take it out of sale in that country.
Basically, each country has its own laws of sale. Having those switches to turn off sales in certain places is important for the store’s own safety. While 60% of the blame for selling a faulty product goes to the manufacturer, 40% still goes to the storefront that chose to stock and sell that faulty good. In this case, the fault was specific to the country of play.
That’s right, I have heard of some of these cases, but thank you very much for the info! I definitely didn’t want Sony to have any ground to stand on here, so happy that Valve is able to step up to protect consumers however they can.
Illegal means against the law… so no.
Out of their jurisdiction, Steam is Valve’s platform, so no again.
Valve is the seller in this case, who will be liable for the agreement they have with their customers. If one of their sold product is going to end up massively refunded, who do you think will be processing these? Then Valve has to turn around and get the money from Sony… guess how Valve estimates that will go.
So step 1 for Valve is limit exposure by stopping sales where you expect issues.
Step 2 is analyzing the potential for refunds in other countries and limiting there as well if deemed to big a risk.
I can only imagine that feedback from Valve to Sony played a role in the decision to not push forward. As large corporations only speak money… the cost benefit made at Sony must have missed some things to have it now skew the other way.
I’ll believe the account requirement will be totally in the past IF the sales to the non PSN countries are reinstated. Cause why limit your customers to countries if that is not necessary.
Honestly I’m keeping my negative review permanent. The game is great and I enjoy it, but besides a temporary back lash I want the sting to stick around to hopefully teach companies about fucking around and finding out.
They won’t learn anything. They only nulled their bullshit because it would hurt their financial quarter because their biggest cash cow game at the moment is bombing. They only way to maybe make them learn would be if every single one of the “outraged gamers” would just uninstall and never play it again, but that won’t happen and Sony knows that (which is why they can try pulling that shit in the first place).
Good for the peeps in non-PSN countries tho. For them, this is a real win.
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So, someone in my Discord channel posted a tweet that maybe alters perspective a bit;
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/575881390999207956/1236869629008412714/not-surprised-but-damn-v0-jjr7xh7eqlyc1.png?ex=663a3cdb&is=6638eb5b&hm=3f4ff94b3a29dceb2e973e1e61abcf84c92220571d32a7b05c2966b74ccb241b&
To summarize or if the link breaks, one of the devs “knew beforehand” they’d have to require PSN accounts post launch, but disabled them for a smooth launch. That’s interesting, but as long as Sony was acting as publisher I feel like the blame still goes on them for selling the game to non-PSN countries initially.
FYI l: That’s the CEO of Arrowhead, who made the game.
Still not going to buy it.
deleted by creator
Yeah but now people will get right back to spending money on the game. So at the end of the day it’s still Sony laughing all the way to the bank.
Shit like this should result in a boycott not in “at least it’s not as bad as it could’ve been”.
I never ended up refunding my copy, but I’m certainly not gonna give a single cent to the live service side of the game. I already hadn’t paid for anything, but was considering it before this shitshow. Now, I think I’ll just buy copies of Magicka and throw them at friends to try and support Arrowhead.
Boycotting the game would hurt Arrowhead far more than Sony, and they were forced to do this. Like beating a dog because the owner upset you.
You don’t owe Arrowhead anything. They’re not a dog, they’re a company who’s made bad choices and now has to deal with them.
What use is a good game if you get blocked out or exploited trying to play it? Do you really want to give your money away? Ok, but stop wondering why the industry is going to shit. It’s because of gamers with more money than sense.
Again, this was not Arrowheads choice. It’s forced on them by Sony.
Again, why do you care? You paid for a product. That product is now different from what it was supposed to be. You’ve been screwed and switch-baited. Why do you care what unholy combination of companies led to this? If it were any other industry and any other type of product you’d be screaming murder. But because it’s games we find excuses.
Because I’m not a whiney child having a tantrum, with no awareness of the practicalities of the world, trying to justify misdirected rage.
I’m not going to blame company A for something that was done by company B.
You do you, though.
Shitstorm = Feedback
Noted…
It’s Feedback in the way that microphone feedback is - really bloody loud and painful, and makes you know you’ve done something wrong
Yeah exactly. And it’s often the only feedback that gets any attention unfortunately. It was getting media attention and getting very loud.
Plus the whole thing was just stupid. They could have accomplished exactly the same thing with little backlash by offering some little in-game trinket for voluntarily linking a PSN account where it was possible to get one. This wasn’t my idea, I saw it somewhere on Lemmy, but that person needs to get a job at Sony stat because the chucklefucks working there now have no clue.
the only feedback they respond to are the feedback that give them concussion.
Behind the scenes coming up with the future plans:
Yeah, like, you know what is best for PC players, it just doesn’t come together with financial interest :D
and this is why i wish people would make it profitable, fuck AAA titles, give your money to indies who respect the consumers and actually just want to make a fun game.
I wish game devs would found a union that helps developers fund and publish games with no profit incentive, it seems like such an obvious thing to do and has the potential to revolutionizing how people create and play games.
No longer would we be beholden to companies, no longer would developers have to compromise their works for profit, no longer would players have to tolerate predatory bullshit.
Just good games made by passionate people who are happy to have people enjoy their works while being able to afford to live on it.
That’s what I normally do - pirate or ignore AAA’s, but always buy indies.
The problem with the union idea is that most games just won’t pay off huge investments, so there needs to be someone competent who filters out profitable games, and funds games based on expected returns…and at that point we get, essentially, a publisher company. Or maybe a cooperative. But barely a union.
Never thought I would see the day.
OK now they can go ahead with plan B where they allow you to link your PSN account to get some super cool cosmetic. I wonder what the reaction of the consumers will be then.
Wasn’t that already the case? That’s what they did in most of their other pc ports at least
That’s allright tho.
I think that’s entirely fair and similar to store loyalty cards. You get something in exchange for your datas at least.
Except now many loyalty cards are now required to get sale prices that were previously available without them. It is a bleak world where folks have to potentially choose between affording groceries and protecting their privacy.
People actually thought that this was a very cool solution. People are the worst.
I really don’t see the problem, provided it is cosmetic. If you don’t want to link, you don’t get a glittering, whatever in game. If you don’t mind sharing your datas, then you get the shiny thing (and everyone knows you don’t mind sharing your datas).
I mind.
So if you mind sharing your data, don’t get the shiny. You know it will become like that shiny pony back in wow’s wrath expansion. It told you more about the person than anything else.
There are legitimate reasons for the devs and Sony to want your psn account linked. It’s also reasonable to not want to do so. Why not offer a compromise, like any healthy relationship, and allow, not force, account linking, with a little incentive? Where is the downside to either party?
Have they reinstated the games back in the 177 countries they delisted it in? Can those people who paid for the game still play it?
Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: The access hadn’t been removed yet, as the update that would enable account linking wasn’t pushed yet. As for the Steam side, I’m pretty sure people who already had the game installed should’ve had access still, although updates and general unsureness definitely could be obstacles. With this tweet, however, the update is no longer coming, and were just waiting for Sony/Valve to lift the selling/installing restrictions in those countries.
Steam only removes games from the store, and doesn’t remove games from anyone’s library. Those affected people, if they didn’t refund, will still have HD2 in their library. There is also never install restrictions/blocking.
“we’re still learning What’s best for PC players”
Translation: We’re trying multiple predatory methods to see how far we can push PC players and figure out what we can get away with, compared to all the shit shows we successfully pulled off on our own platform.
“We’re still learning just how far we can push PC players.”
“we’re sorry that we got caught”
We all want PlayStation exclusives on PC, their response now is going to be their own launcher. Just a guess on my end.
What’s wild to me is they’re making their own overlay for their PC games. Ghost of Tsushima is supposed to be the first release title with it. Do they not understand steam already has an overlay? I feel like 2 overlays would just compete and be obnoxious and possibly ever impact performance.
Also, why? If it is for co-op crossplay, just make linking PSN to Steam optional, and state it is needed for inviting/grouping with any PS5 friends. Then do what every other multiplatform game does and show 2 friends list in the game.
Revert your negative reviews guys
Cyberbullying works 🎉
Is that the new term for boycott?
Ya, it’s the good ol’ “voting with your wallet” that can bring companies to their knees
The fact that they specifically mention that date makes me think they’re simply pushing the date back
They are just being clear and accurate with their comms. No need to over think it.
They specifically said “not moving forward”. Seems pretty clear and concise. No PSN requirement.
And they also said “We’re still learning what’s best for PC players […]”
They’ll be back.
They won’t be back - they’re not leaving.
But that phrase also seems like pretty normal rationalizing in an apology.
If I had to bet it was mostly steam issuing refunds and pulling the game in more than 100 countries that changed their mind.
God damn. You people just NEED to be upset about stuff. Like, pathologically.
it couldn’t possibly be that people are applying basic pattern recognition
No, a bunch of people here just need to be outraged about something all the time, and pessimistic about everything.
Nothing can ever be even modestly positive. Everything - everything - has to be bad and negative all the time. If it was a cute puppy video, there’d be a bunch of comments about how puppy farms are evil and etc.
It’s exhausting.
Can you tell us what positive thing we can get from the account linking debacle?
Not our fault the entire tech industry keeps engineering new ways to give people trust issues.
You just know that there used to be an “…at this time” at the end of that sentence and some good PR folk edited it out because managers are out of touch douches.
Negative reviews should remain until the purchase restrictions put in place on Steam for non-PSN countries have been reverted.
Until then this looks like a temporary move for damage control and they’ll try this again when refunds are less likely and wont be from restricted countries.
https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542
Democracy has not won yet.
There was a theory that the purchase restrictions were put in place by Valve, not Sony (because those countries couldn’t make an account without violating TOS). If so, Valve might shortly remove the restrictions.
Would the publisher not have to request the game not be sold in those countries before Valve restricts the sale of it?
I believe that Valve may be the ones who do it, but just doing it without permission sounds… Illegal and out of their jurisdiction.
I know Valve controls their storefront and can absolutely pull games down, just looking for some clarification on whether this could be true or not.
I wish they’d remove some of the PS2 to PC ports on their store that don’t actually run anymore. Prince of Persia, Saints Row 2, etc.
I hope Valve never does this. Tons of games on Steam only work with community fixes, it sets a bad precedent if they pull them because they don’t work in their official state.
It’s better to have them then not, I would just force a disclaimer during sale for abandoned titles that most players have reported that the game does not function without community patches.
Well the guy who made GotR to get saints row working died a few years back and AFAIK the game is effectively nonfunctional for the majority of people who buy it. Those people paid for a product that they cannot use. They could go emulate the game for free and it would run better.
Plus, the owners of the title have a functioning PC version sold elsewhere than Steam. They could easily remedy this if Steam took away their listing.
Is there one for Sims 3 Medieval? A warning that it wasn’t playable on modern OSes would have sufficed.
Valve can remove games from sale for any reason they like - it’s been a point of consumer contention when they are accused of censorship for certain risque anime games, too.
If a game lets you buy it in Tanzania, download it in Tanzania, and then to play, has you sign an agreement that says “I truthfully state that I do not live in Tanzania”, then that bone-headed agreement reflects poorly on Valve, so they have almost a legal need to take it out of sale in that country.
Basically, each country has its own laws of sale. Having those switches to turn off sales in certain places is important for the store’s own safety. While 60% of the blame for selling a faulty product goes to the manufacturer, 40% still goes to the storefront that chose to stock and sell that faulty good. In this case, the fault was specific to the country of play.
That’s right, I have heard of some of these cases, but thank you very much for the info! I definitely didn’t want Sony to have any ground to stand on here, so happy that Valve is able to step up to protect consumers however they can.
Illegal means against the law… so no.
Out of their jurisdiction, Steam is Valve’s platform, so no again.
Valve is the seller in this case, who will be liable for the agreement they have with their customers. If one of their sold product is going to end up massively refunded, who do you think will be processing these? Then Valve has to turn around and get the money from Sony… guess how Valve estimates that will go.
So step 1 for Valve is limit exposure by stopping sales where you expect issues.
Step 2 is analyzing the potential for refunds in other countries and limiting there as well if deemed to big a risk.
I can only imagine that feedback from Valve to Sony played a role in the decision to not push forward. As large corporations only speak money… the cost benefit made at Sony must have missed some things to have it now skew the other way.
I’ll believe the account requirement will be totally in the past IF the sales to the non PSN countries are reinstated. Cause why limit your customers to countries if that is not necessary.
We don’t know their personal contract, but calling it illegal is ridiculous, I’m sure Valve explicitly allows for this.
That’s why I said I wasn’t sure and that I was asking for clarification?
Honestly I’m keeping my negative review permanent. The game is great and I enjoy it, but besides a temporary back lash I want the sting to stick around to hopefully teach companies about fucking around and finding out.
They won’t learn anything. They only nulled their bullshit because it would hurt their financial quarter because their biggest cash cow game at the moment is bombing. They only way to maybe make them learn would be if every single one of the “outraged gamers” would just uninstall and never play it again, but that won’t happen and Sony knows that (which is why they can try pulling that shit in the first place).
Good for the peeps in non-PSN countries tho. For them, this is a real win.
Maybe you’ll be teaching them that changing course brings no relief from punishment
Maybe he’ll be teaching them that trying to force enshittification on people in the first place has repercussions.
It’s obvious corpos learn the wrong lessons all the time.
I think there’d have been a lot less pushback if the gamers had got something in return, like Steam/PSN cross-buy on Sony published titles.
It’s not even like they could claim it being needed for cross-play, because it demonstrably works without it.
lol