The man’s a consummate bullshit artist, but I can’t deny he used to be one of the best. Populous, Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper, Fable…
The last 10-15 years have been a bit of a write-off, but before that, even when he was shitting out games, they were still better than most people could even dream of making.
There is a possibility something like this will be possible in the future, but it’s not going to be an achievement of AI, it’s largely going to be the achievement of regular developers creating a general-purpose game engine that can be used to put together a game block by block, which can be utilized by both human game designers and AI. (Likely to better effect by the former.) I can imagine Entity Component Systems will play a big part of that.
One of the biggest blockers for AI making games is going to be testing it to select for better performance. With text it’s relatively easy to see if some text an AI produced is plausible. Images are also plentiful, but that’s a lot more subjective. With both of these it would also not take a massive amount of time to add a human element. It’s quick to check if a paragraph or image looks like it is a good response to the input promt. A game, however? How long do you need to play it to see if it’s fun? At best, perhaps, you can write an AI to control a bot character to see if it’s technically playable.
I don’t want to even think about the electricity that wlll be wasted training such models.
ECS has really nothing to do with this. ECS is just a specific way to store the internal state of a program, fundamentally no different from other data structures.
Also, a good game is far more than just text and images and current “AI” can’t even generate those individually. A game needs significant thought put into things like game loops, story arcs, balancing,… that are non-obvious when existing games would just be training data. Not to mention that using an existing game as training data is both non-trivial and also we just don’t have the vast amounts of them that current systems seem to need to produce anything even half-way decent.
ECS already makes it a hundred times easier for me to conceptualize game mechanics, modify and extend them. Giving AI the ability the ability to create data separate from systems that use them will make it much easier for it to build a game. I don’t believe for a second it will be able to write functioning object-oriented game code for example. It will likely be best if it avoided coding via a text-based language altogether, and use visual scripting or another system based on chaining logic blocks together. But that still counts as the “system” part of ECS.
Visual programming has been tried and tried again and failed every single time. Mostly that is because graphics are just not very good at abstraction and programming is all about abstraction.
I currently use AI, through Nvidia Broadcast, to remove the sound of the literal server rack feet away from my xlr mic in my definitely not sound treated room so people I’m gaming with don’t wind up muting me. It also removes the clickety clack of my blue switches and my mouse clicks, all that shit.
It’s insanely reliable, and honestly a complete godsend. I could muck around with compressors and noise gates to try to cut out the high pitch server fan whine, but then my voice gets wonky and I’ve wasted weeks bc I’m not an audio engineer but I’m obsessive, and the mic is still picking up my farts bc why not use an xlr condenser mic to shit talk in cs?
Edit - Oh, I also use the virtual speaker that Broadcast creates as the in-game (or Discord or whatever) voice output, and AI removes the same shit from other people’s audio. I’ve heard people complaining about background music from another teammates open mic while all I hear is their perfectly clear voice. It’s like straight up magic.
A really good place would be background banter. Greatly reducing the amount of extra dialogues the devs will have to think of.
Give the AI a proper scenario, with some Game lore based context, applicable to each background character.
Make them talk to each other for around 5-10 rounds of conversation.
Read them, just to make sure nothing seems out of place.
Bundle them with TTS for each character sound type.
Sure, you’ll have to make a TTS package for each voice, but at the same time, that can be licensed directly by the VA to the game studio, on a per-title basis and they too, can then get more $$$ for less work.
And probably royalties for using their “likeness.” But longer-term, I’m guessing total revenue for VAs will drop, and there will probably be less variety.
They won’t because of hallucinations. They could work in mature games though where its expected that whatever the AI says is not going to break your brain.
But yeah a kid walks up to toad in the next Mario game and toad tells Mario to go slap peaches ass, that game would get pulled really quick.
Oh come on, LLMs don’t hallucinate 24/7. For that, you have to ask a chatbot to say something it wasn’t properly trained for. But generating simple texts for background chatter? That’s safe and easy. The real issue is the amount of resources required by modern LLMs. But technologies tend to become better with time.
The content is… AI assisted (maybe a better way to put it).
And yes, now you don’t need to get the VA every time you add a line, as long as the License for the TTS data holds.
You still want to be having proper VAs for lead roles though. Or you might end up with empty feeling dialogues. Even though AI tends to put inflections and all, from what I have seen, it’s not good enough to reproduce proper acting.
Of course that would mean that those who cannot do the higher quality acting [1] will be stuck with only making the TTS files, instead of getting lead roles.
But that will mean that now, places where games could not afford to add voice, they now can. Specially useful for cases where someone is doing a one dev project.
Even better if there can be an open standard format for AI training compatible TTS data. That way, a VA can just pay a one time fee to a tech, to create that file, then own said file and licence it whichever way they like.
e.g. most Anime English dubs. I have seen a few exceptions, but they are few enough to call exceptions ↩︎
You know the way these programmers talk about AI, I think they just don’t want to have to work with anyone else.
How is this not taking from voice actors and giving to yourself in that regard? The system you described would mean only the biggest names get paid, all so a developer can avoid learning social skills.
You are right. I don’t want to have to socialise just to add a bit of voice to my game characters.
If I have to, I’d rather ship without voicing any of them.
The system you described would mean only the biggest names get paid
Rather, it’s more like, we as the user get a greater variety of background NPC banter, for the same game price.
Take X4 for instance. The only banter we get is different types of “hello”.
Only in cases of quests, is there any dialogue variety. When there is any such banter out of quests, it’s mostly incoherent (or was that another game, I need to check again).
It doesn’t really make sense that 2 or more people meet in a docking area, say, “Hi”, “Hello”, “Good day to you” and then just keep on standing staring at each other’s faces as if they were using some sort of telepathy, or just staring at each other without any conversation.
It would be fun to be able to have conversations that, while clear that they would not be able to yield any Quest, should still have variety enough to be fun when the player stops by, eavesdropping.
This sort of thing is there in a lot of games by high budget studios, while at the same time, the games have pretty large file sizes.
This way, we can reduce both production and distribution costs.
And the VAs, they don’t need to do all the work of speaking each dialogue every time the story writers come up with new banter, but the studio will be getting their voice for those lines, essentially increasing the value of the licensed TTS package, meaning the VA gets more work done than the work they do and gets paid more (well, the last part depends more upon the market condition).
You know if you don’t think a comment adds to the discussion there’s a purpose built button for you to express that exact sentiment? It’s right below the one you pointed out in your very helpful diagram.
you’re adorable, but i think we can all agree that making an effort to help other users contribute positively to the platform is itself a positive contribution.
I really hope you’re not suggesting that you honestly think someone didn’t know about the upvote button? What a silly thing to imply that your sarcastic comment was supposed to be in some way actually helpful to someone.
It’s not that I don’t like your tone, I’m always down for a sarcastic quip. What I don’t like is dishonest people. You must think we’re all incredibly stupid if you expect anyone to believe your intent was to help by pointing out the upvote button.
I do admire your confidence, however misplaced, and your commitment to embodying your username though.
Ok this got a chuckle out of me. But yeah, I don’t see any problem with people expressing agreement verbally.
Imagine a real conversation where you’re only allowed to agree with someone with nods, never saying “yeah I agree completely” or any other verbal feedback.
i am, and it’s nothing like a comment thread on pseudo-social media.
imagine a comedy duo where one member makes quips and the other chimes in periodically with ‘i couldn’t agree more’ and ‘i came here to say this!’
penn and teller work well as an act because teller keeps his mouth shut.
i guess it makes sense from the perspective that lemmy is a community largely by and for former redditors. activity that’s effectively indistinguishable from bots must make this place feel like home to some of us.
Lemmy doesn’t need users to police comments. If they’re against the rules, report. Otherwise, every comment is welcome here, and the little arrows don’t even really do anything. That’s what’s so nice about this place.
unless it’s not very nice, then we need to give them a scolding. thank goodness officer superkret is on the job to put those rapscallions in their place.
Up and down votes are not a “agree / disagree” button. They are for dis/encouraging posts. You can upvote a post you disagree with but can see that it is useful for the discussion.
I’m pretty sure that ship has sailed, especially on Lemmy. I feel like votes as agreement instead of acknowledging constructiveness is more prevalent here than on Reddit, especially for anything vaguely political (or AI, Musk, etc). I’ve seen very constructive comments complete with citations and everything get heavily downvoted because they go against whatever the popular position is, while a low-effort comment next to it gets heavily upvoted because it agrees with the popular opinion.
It’s really frustrating, and I wish we had a platform that properly rewarded constructive discussion instead of popular discussion. Yet here we are.
Engaging with other people on this small platform makes it feel less empty. There aren’t many people here, so I go out of my way to talk to people instead of just interacting with the number beside their comment or post.
believe it or not, some people find the relentless search for validation from people incapable of original thought weird and offputting when they’re looking for discussion and interesting takes.
When an AI is able to take and write every single line of code, generate all the art, and debug it just by having someone as code dumb as a CEO type in a prompt, I’ll believe his words and eat my shirt.
The thing is even if AI could do all that (which is doubtful in my life time), you would still need someone to prompt it with something interesting. And CEO types have never had an interesting idea in their lives
25 years might actually be a potentially realistic timeframe for that. But I’d still bet on a little longer myself. I hope it happens within my lifetime.
This has been bothering me too. Its such a nothing statement with no suggestion of how this would be accomplished behind it. Like sure, technology is likely to continue advancing, but it may not even resemble these current implementations by the time we get there.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
Video game news oriented community. No NanoUFO is not a bot :)
Posts.
News oriented content (general reviews, previews or retrospectives allowed).
Broad discussion posts (preferably not only about a specific game).
No humor/memes etc…
No affiliate links
No advertising.
No clickbait, editorialized, sensational titles. State the game in question in the title. No all caps.
No self promotion.
No duplicate posts, newer post will be deleted unless there is more discussion in one of the posts.
No politics.
Comments.
No personal attacks.
Obey instance rules.
No low effort comments(one or two words, emoji etc…)
Please use spoiler tags for spoilers.
My goal is just to have a community where people can go and see what new game news is out for the day and comment on it.
It’s impressive how many Ls one man can take while still getting media coverage
The man’s a consummate bullshit artist, but I can’t deny he used to be one of the best. Populous, Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper, Fable…
The last 10-15 years have been a bit of a write-off, but before that, even when he was shitting out games, they were still better than most people could even dream of making.
There is a possibility something like this will be possible in the future, but it’s not going to be an achievement of AI, it’s largely going to be the achievement of regular developers creating a general-purpose game engine that can be used to put together a game block by block, which can be utilized by both human game designers and AI. (Likely to better effect by the former.) I can imagine Entity Component Systems will play a big part of that.
One of the biggest blockers for AI making games is going to be testing it to select for better performance. With text it’s relatively easy to see if some text an AI produced is plausible. Images are also plentiful, but that’s a lot more subjective. With both of these it would also not take a massive amount of time to add a human element. It’s quick to check if a paragraph or image looks like it is a good response to the input promt. A game, however? How long do you need to play it to see if it’s fun? At best, perhaps, you can write an AI to control a bot character to see if it’s technically playable.
I don’t want to even think about the electricity that wlll be wasted training such models.
ECS has really nothing to do with this. ECS is just a specific way to store the internal state of a program, fundamentally no different from other data structures.
Also, a good game is far more than just text and images and current “AI” can’t even generate those individually. A game needs significant thought put into things like game loops, story arcs, balancing,… that are non-obvious when existing games would just be training data. Not to mention that using an existing game as training data is both non-trivial and also we just don’t have the vast amounts of them that current systems seem to need to produce anything even half-way decent.
ECS already makes it a hundred times easier for me to conceptualize game mechanics, modify and extend them. Giving AI the ability the ability to create data separate from systems that use them will make it much easier for it to build a game. I don’t believe for a second it will be able to write functioning object-oriented game code for example. It will likely be best if it avoided coding via a text-based language altogether, and use visual scripting or another system based on chaining logic blocks together. But that still counts as the “system” part of ECS.
Visual programming has been tried and tried again and failed every single time. Mostly that is because graphics are just not very good at abstraction and programming is all about abstraction.
This lifelong grifter has embraced AI? Shocker.
Grifter gonna grift.
you guys joke but AI npcs have the potential of being awesome
ai being used for good may unfortunately have to wait till the destruction of capitalism
TBH this is a great space for modding and local LLM/LLM “hordes”
AI being used for anything will have to wait until it actually works reliably.
it doesn’t do well most of the things it’s shoved in as a buzzword to try and impress shareholders, that doesn’t mean it’s completely useless
I currently use AI, through Nvidia Broadcast, to remove the sound of the literal server rack feet away from my xlr mic in my definitely not sound treated room so people I’m gaming with don’t wind up muting me. It also removes the clickety clack of my blue switches and my mouse clicks, all that shit.
It’s insanely reliable, and honestly a complete godsend. I could muck around with compressors and noise gates to try to cut out the high pitch server fan whine, but then my voice gets wonky and I’ve wasted weeks bc I’m not an audio engineer but I’m obsessive, and the mic is still picking up my farts bc why not use an xlr condenser mic to shit talk in cs?
Edit - Oh, I also use the virtual speaker that Broadcast creates as the in-game (or Discord or whatever) voice output, and AI removes the same shit from other people’s audio. I’ve heard people complaining about background music from another teammates open mic while all I hear is their perfectly clear voice. It’s like straight up magic.
A really good place would be background banter. Greatly reducing the amount of extra dialogues the devs will have to think of.
Sure, you’ll have to make a TTS package for each voice, but at the same time, that can be licensed directly by the VA to the game studio, on a per-title basis and they too, can then get more $$$ for less work.
I’m pretty sure it’ll be less money for less work, at least after the first few titles. Companies really don’t like paying more than they have to.
True, but if the VA (or their agent) has any sense of business they’ll be making more per hour
And probably royalties for using their “likeness.” But longer-term, I’m guessing total revenue for VAs will drop, and there will probably be less variety.
One can dream.
They won’t because of hallucinations. They could work in mature games though where its expected that whatever the AI says is not going to break your brain.
But yeah a kid walks up to toad in the next Mario game and toad tells Mario to go slap peaches ass, that game would get pulled really quick.
Oh come on, LLMs don’t hallucinate 24/7. For that, you have to ask a chatbot to say something it wasn’t properly trained for. But generating simple texts for background chatter? That’s safe and easy. The real issue is the amount of resources required by modern LLMs. But technologies tend to become better with time.
I still really don’t understand what amount of local resources it would require to run a trained LLM
I just re-read my comment and realised I was not clear enough.
You bundle the text and the AI-TTS. Not the AI text generator.
So the content stays the same but you don’t need a voice actor now?
The content is… AI assisted (maybe a better way to put it).
And yes, now you don’t need to get the VA every time you add a line, as long as the License for the TTS data holds.
You still want to be having proper VAs for lead roles though. Or you might end up with empty feeling dialogues. Even though AI tends to put inflections and all, from what I have seen, it’s not good enough to reproduce proper acting.
Of course that would mean that those who cannot do the higher quality acting [1] will be stuck with only making the TTS files, instead of getting lead roles.
But that will mean that now, places where games could not afford to add voice, they now can. Specially useful for cases where someone is doing a one dev project.
Even better if there can be an open standard format for AI training compatible TTS data. That way, a VA can just pay a one time fee to a tech, to create that file, then own said file and licence it whichever way they like.
e.g. most Anime English dubs. I have seen a few exceptions, but they are few enough to call exceptions ↩︎
You know the way these programmers talk about AI, I think they just don’t want to have to work with anyone else.
How is this not taking from voice actors and giving to yourself in that regard? The system you described would mean only the biggest names get paid, all so a developer can avoid learning social skills.
You are right. I don’t want to have to socialise just to add a bit of voice to my game characters.
If I have to, I’d rather ship without voicing any of them.
Rather, it’s more like, we as the user get a greater variety of background NPC banter, for the same game price.
Take X4 for instance. The only banter we get is different types of “hello”.
Only in cases of quests, is there any dialogue variety. When there is any such banter out of quests, it’s mostly incoherent (or was that another game, I need to check again).
It doesn’t really make sense that 2 or more people meet in a docking area, say, “Hi”, “Hello”, “Good day to you” and then just keep on standing staring at each other’s faces as if they were using some sort of telepathy, or just staring at each other without any conversation.
It would be fun to be able to have conversations that, while clear that they would not be able to yield any Quest, should still have variety enough to be fun when the player stops by, eavesdropping.
This sort of thing is there in a lot of games by high budget studios, while at the same time, the games have pretty large file sizes.
This way, we can reduce both production and distribution costs.
And the VAs, they don’t need to do all the work of speaking each dialogue every time the story writers come up with new banter, but the studio will be getting their voice for those lines, essentially increasing the value of the licensed TTS package, meaning the VA gets more work done than the work they do and gets paid more (well, the last part depends more upon the market condition).
Bro still out here overhyping, he can’t help himself.
Perfect headline.
Couldn’t agree more 😅
did you know that there’s a button on each comment which is purpose built for you to express this exact sentiment? i’ve provided a helpful diagram:
You know if you don’t think a comment adds to the discussion there’s a purpose built button for you to express that exact sentiment? It’s right below the one you pointed out in your very helpful diagram.
you’re adorable, but i think we can all agree that making an effort to help other users contribute positively to the platform is itself a positive contribution.
I really hope you’re not suggesting that you honestly think someone didn’t know about the upvote button? What a silly thing to imply that your sarcastic comment was supposed to be in some way actually helpful to someone.
i like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
i understand that you don’t appreciate my tone but i’m afraid i won’t be able to kneecap my natural charm in order to be less intimidating to you.
It’s not that I don’t like your tone, I’m always down for a sarcastic quip. What I don’t like is dishonest people. You must think we’re all incredibly stupid if you expect anyone to believe your intent was to help by pointing out the upvote button.
I do admire your confidence, however misplaced, and your commitment to embodying your username though.
It’s okay, the internet drought is over, we don’t have to ration posts anymore.
^this
omg, so true
hard agree
Ok this got a chuckle out of me. But yeah, I don’t see any problem with people expressing agreement verbally.
Imagine a real conversation where you’re only allowed to agree with someone with nods, never saying “yeah I agree completely” or any other verbal feedback.
i am, and it’s nothing like a comment thread on pseudo-social media.
imagine a comedy duo where one member makes quips and the other chimes in periodically with ‘i couldn’t agree more’ and ‘i came here to say this!’
penn and teller work well as an act because teller keeps his mouth shut.
i guess it makes sense from the perspective that lemmy is a community largely by and for former redditors. activity that’s effectively indistinguishable from bots must make this place feel like home to some of us.
Lemmy doesn’t need users to police comments. If they’re against the rules, report. Otherwise, every comment is welcome here, and the little arrows don’t even really do anything. That’s what’s so nice about this place.
unless it’s not very nice, then we need to give them a scolding. thank goodness officer superkret is on the job to put those rapscallions in their place.
Up and down votes are not a “agree / disagree” button. They are for dis/encouraging posts. You can upvote a post you disagree with but can see that it is useful for the discussion.
you have a good point. after all i’m clearly in the right despite the votes suggesting otherwise.
I’m pretty sure that ship has sailed, especially on Lemmy. I feel like votes as agreement instead of acknowledging constructiveness is more prevalent here than on Reddit, especially for anything vaguely political (or AI, Musk, etc). I’ve seen very constructive comments complete with citations and everything get heavily downvoted because they go against whatever the popular position is, while a low-effort comment next to it gets heavily upvoted because it agrees with the popular opinion.
It’s really frustrating, and I wish we had a platform that properly rewarded constructive discussion instead of popular discussion. Yet here we are.
Engaging with other people on this small platform makes it feel less empty. There aren’t many people here, so I go out of my way to talk to people instead of just interacting with the number beside their comment or post.
“there’s not much meat in this stew so i added sawdust” really isn’t the slam dunk solution that you think it is.
Your username is fitting.
Believe it or not, some people like making casual conversation with other people, even if it’s just idle agreement.
Hope you have a nice day.
removed by mod
removed by mod
Ohh the irony.
removed by mod
please leave
Weirdest troll 2024.
thank you, it’s an honor just to be nominated
like this?
what app is that? looks sharp
connect for lemmy!
(Exploration: I’m using thunder, which is gesture based, you swipe to upvote rather than pressing a button)
Couldn’t agree more
Who is still giving this man money?
Capitalists don’t know shit about what the working class wants. These video game folks continue to prove this true.
BEAT THAT PETAR MOLINEXU!
When an AI is able to take and write every single line of code, generate all the art, and debug it just by having someone as code dumb as a CEO type in a prompt, I’ll believe his words and eat my shirt.
And all they’ll have to show for it is a mediocre pile of garbage
Oh my god. Bethesda is Skynet!
The thing is even if AI could do all that (which is doubtful in my life time), you would still need someone to prompt it with something interesting. And CEO types have never had an interesting idea in their lives
Fair enough. Though knowing them they’d just find something extremely popular like pokemon or the latest CoD and have the AI make games like those.
This is one of the best titles in a long time.
Honestly I didn’t even read the article. Shared it purely based on the headline.
Man I thought he got better after he admitted that NFTs were a mistake, he can’t help himself.
What a shame, I was ready to forgive the dude and play Masters of Albion, I loved black & white and there aren’t any clones of it.
He always apologizes before pushing his next scam.
I know the streamer Okoii has been doing streams of B&W2 recently and he had some instructions in the first one about how to get it running.
Not sure if that helps. Not sure if you wanted to play the game or play something like it.
There’s a source port of Black and White that is in early development. Just had it’s first alpha release.
So there might be a modern way to play it in a year or two. Hopefully modding too!
Thanks for the tip!
25 years might actually be a potentially realistic timeframe for that. But I’d still bet on a little longer myself. I hope it happens within my lifetime.
Man, I’m getting tired of everyone and their cat saying shit like “AI will…”.
With how loosely defined “AI” is, it probably will at some point. But that statement is also completely worthless.
This has been bothering me too. Its such a nothing statement with no suggestion of how this would be accomplished behind it. Like sure, technology is likely to continue advancing, but it may not even resemble these current implementations by the time we get there.