Valve releasing a competitive game doesn’t prevent you from doing this. I for one am excited by the potential of this game. Then again, I’ve been playing Dota for 10 years so maybe I’m just a masochist.
I had a lot of good times and even more bad times with DotA over the years, until I finally freed myself from it years ago.
IceFrog being behind this backed by Valve bodes well, and I think the premise of an FPS/MOBA hybrid has promise, despite the market being insanely oversaturated already.
I’m not really interested in competitive games these days, but I hope it’ll be good to watch at least. Following The International was fun even after I quit DotA.
Was gonna say. How is the hero shooter market over-saturated?
There’s like 3 games that people actually know about, and like 2 of those are good/decent.
I could be mistaken, as I don’t really play competitive games anymore. I thought between Overwatch, Valorant, Apex, The Finals and what have you there was lots of stiff competition.
Whatever it ends up being, I’m not interested. Never cared for competitive gaming. Sad that Valve has decided to use part of their enormous talent pool for, well, this while almost any genre would’ve been better.
Also, this is already a highly saturated niche. I don’t doubt Valve’s technical prowess and knowhow to develop a game that can surpass all the other ones in quality, but a gilded turd is still a turd under that gold leaf, even if it’s technically the best turd in the world.
Competitive online games have been Valve‘s focus for well over a decade so it‘s in line with their portfolio. If anything, Alyx was an outlier they only did because they have a headset to sell it with. I think they know what they‘re doing. Sucks for you to not be their target audience though because they are pretty good at making games.
That’s unfortunate that it’s not a genre you personally are interested in, but it is a popular genre and Valve is a business. Just because it’s not to your tastes doesn’t mean it’s a waste of their talent.
I’m just curious why Valve looked at the oversaturated hero shooter market (seriously, we’ve had failures 8 years ago now) and said “Oh yeah, let’s devote our resources there”
edit: Like, I seriously can’t understand it. Not even Blizzard is coming out unscathed from Overwatch 2.
Not really my responsibility to make an argument for you. Of all the reasons Overwatch 2 might not have performed well, it being a Hero Shooter doesn’t have any strong evidence and you didn’t provide anything showing that was the reason.
One could argue Overwatch 2 being a Hero Shooter is why it didn’t perform worse than it already has, given its problems.
Blizzard is bad at balancing the game - could be true of any game, doesn’t have to be a shooter
Blizzard cancels promised mode - Blizzard being bad at design and following through on promises.
See 1.
Forcing a game to become the sequel, not making meaningful changes other than monetization
See 1
Blizzard made a bad game
None of these are a result of Overwatch 2 being a shooter, and all of them are a result of Blizzard being shit at making quality games, caring about players, and following through on promises. So thank you, you have done a fantastic job demonstrating that Overwatch 2 being a shooter is not the reason it didn’t perform well.
Oh absolutely. I’m not conceited enough to imagine Valve is developing games for me or that I’m entitled to anything. Just venting my personal disappointment with their choice. I still consider them the cream of the crop in game and hardware development.
Well, it’s valve, so honestly the odds of it being genre-defining in an already established genre? Pretty high, actually. Seriously, when is the last time valve put out a shit game?
It’s been many years, maybe even decades, since I liked a straight up turn-based single player RPG. I seriously can’t think of one that has sucked me in since FFX. I even tried Divinity Original Sin 2 after so much hype and good reviews from my friends. But I just didn’t like it.
However, Baldur’s Gate 3 sucked me in. According to steam, approaching 100 hours of playtime (although I’m sure there is a good chunk of time where I just walked away with the PC with it “paused.”)
I’m not saying you’ll like the game, I have no idea. But to already be convinced that you won’t like it based on pretty much the nothing we’ve got it terribly presumptuous.
I’m not ordering pizza from a restaurant if I’ve eaten 12 pizzas before and never liked any of them.
I was very intentional with my language, and pointed out that we know pretty much nothing about the game, so claiming you know you won’t like it is h reasonable. This is nothing like having a pizza, not liking it, and then not getting that same pizza again. This is like not liking the pizza at one store, it’s much closer to saying you don’t like the pizza in one store, so you know you won’t like it in another. Still imperfect because it would be closer saying you’ve never had a pizza you like, so you won’t like the pizza in a new store, which is more reasonable because you have a lot of information about that pizza.
To be faaaaiiiiir… D:OS (both of them) make the age-old mistake of having really slow, uninteresting, prologuish RPG starts. It takes a solid 5h of powergaming or 10h+ of normal play to get past that hump. That’s the point where the story picks up and you have enough tools to start really taking advantage of the games sandbox.
With BG3 they really seemed to have learned their lessons.
This seems reasonably different than the headline implies. It’s a hero shooter, in that there are classes based on heroes (like Team Fortress 2 as well). The gameplay is more moba it sounds like. I think I’ve only played one other moba shooter, and it failed quickly, so that’s different already.
It’s not a copy of OW, and even if it were it could still innovate. Half Life might be a “Doom Clone”, but it did stuff no one had done before. There’s plenty of innovation potential without inventing a new genre. Even if you do create a new genre, it’s probably still just evolution of existing things. No one ever has an original idea. It’s always inspired by their environment.
I hate beets. HATE them. I will eat durian, thousand-year eggs, stinky tofu, and a million other things that most people won’t touch… but beets? Fuck beets. Their sweet-yet-earthy funk is like a dead animal that has just started to decompose. I don’t care if they are cooked, pickled, or stewed in borscht… hate them and won’t touch them. They ruin everything they touch.
This is like that. They are cooking with lots of beet-like ingredients. Some people will love that. But as for me…I hate it… I hate just everything about it… and I hate it because I’ve experienced all those ingredients before. Over and over and over again. What they are making is for a very particular crowd, and I am not part of said crowd.
This seems reasonably different than the headline implies. It’s a hero shooter, in that there are classes based on heroes (like Team Fortress 2 as well). The gameplay is more moba it sounds like. I think I’ve only played one other moba shooter, and it failed quickly, so that’s different already.
It’s not a copy of OW, and even if it were it could still innovate. Half Life might be a “Doom Clone”, but it did stuff no one had done before. There’s plenty of innovation potential without inventing a new genre. Even if you do create a new genre, it’s probably still just evolution of existing things. No one ever has an original idea. It’s always inspired by their environment.
All fair points, and given the way Valve operates (like a free collective) this would only happen if there were some really passionate people leading and working on it.
That said, it’s still a mix of things I just really do not have any interest in. Competitive online game, esports focused, MOBA-like, PvP, hero shooter… that’s a whole lot of hard no-thanks from me.
I’d love some new light-narrative single player and/or co-op stuff from them, though.
The Newscast is not the images. It’s an annoying video they embed in all articles and then floats when you scroll. I actually have set an adblock rule to block that shit.
As for the images, for now hotlinking to Twitter images is possible, so:
I don’t mean the banner ads for cookies, I’m referring to sites restricting viewable content based on your selection. Which seems to be illegal in the EU.
Who are these “they” that has admitted it’s a bad law?
It’s one of the best recent pieces of privacy legeslation. It’s not the EU’s fault that websites are scumbags insisting on making life difficult for people.
Yes it is. They completely failed to specify what would constitute compliance. They were warned repeatedly about this when the law first came out.
It has good intentions behind it but the law itself doesn’t work. They haven’t reduced privacy violations at all because everyone just clicks yes because it’s so frustrating, And it isn’t against the law to implement these dark patterns so what’s the point?
Nah. TF2 is a shooter with 9 classes. People can double up on “soldier” for instance. A hero shooter has for one, a lot more classes / heroes (which comes from MOBAs), for two activated abilities on each hero which change the games significantly, and usually disables doubling up in competetive modes. You wouldn’t call Enemy Territory a hero shooter for instance.
Overwatch disabled doubling up well after launch, and only because they couldn’t or wouldn’t balance the game such that a 4 tank no DPS comp didn’t utterly cheese the game.
I think you can get there in TF2 when considering subclasses via weapons loadouts. Demoknight for instance is a completely different play style than normal pipe/sticky demoman.
I stand by my assessment that overwatch is essentially team fortress 2 with a limit of one player per class and fewer game modes.
I don’t know the name of the trope, but it’s like when a cover gets more popular than the original. Except the person doing the cover (blizzard) is a huge scumbag.
I mean, okay, people can claim that every fps is just Doom with extra steps, doesn’t make the distinction irrellevant though. Mobas are their own thing, they aren’t called RTS anymore. Same with hero shooters. Tf2 isn’t a hero shooter.
If you set the server config to limit one player per class, and set the max team size to like 8, you basically have a hero shooter. That’s not an unusual config- some servers were just like that for years.
What’s missing ? “Each class has two powers” is an extremely specific metric I don’t think is a requirement for hero shooters, and even if it was you have the unique grenades on top of the more obvious “he can build a sentry, he can turn invisible”.
You could maybe argue there aren’t enough classes, but I don’t buy that. As long as you have enough for everyone on the team to play something different, you’re good. The characters in TF2 certainly have personality.
I knew someone who got really upset when I compared overwatch to TF2, but I think it was because they were emotionally invested in overwatch and felt bad when I was like “it’s kind of like this much older game I like more”. Saying the thing they love is kind of a knockoff made them feel bad.
Anyway. To your point. I wouldn’t call tf2 a hero shooter first. It’s not the best representation of the genre, probably. But to my point, I still stand by overwatch added very little on top of TF2. Most of Blizzard’s changes were changes in minor detail. It’s basically "more classes, fewer game modes, you can’t run your own server, and we’re going to try to sell you micro transactions "
god this is like when everyone called first person shooters “doom clones”, overwatch is absolutely not a tf2 ripoff lmao, and making a hero shooter does not mean it’s an overwatch ripoff either.
There’s no such thing as an original idea. Just look at tvtropes. The whole idea is to make a new take on a previous idea, to integrate and innovate. No idea if this will be successful in doing that, but the premise alone shouldn’t condemn it.
It might make Valve unlikely to make another game and a lot of people, including myself, would be hugely disappointed but I don’t think it would have any major negative effects beyond those two.
You also can’t MTX a Half Life 3 game to hell and back. Years ago, I knew the next Half Life game would be VR. They’ve always used the Half Life games to showcase new tech or models(the Episodes). Didn’t realize it would be VR Exclusive or a prequel.
At least the community has given up and is producing their own sequels and spinoffs.
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Then don’t play competitive shooters lol? There are literally thousands of great games for you out there. Why are you even commenting on this post?
Because some of us want a game from Valve that’s not competitive? There are literally thousands of us out here. Why do you even care?
Oh it HAS to be made by Valve. Ok cool?
This post is about VALVE’s next game. Can’t you read?
Yes, the one that’s a competitive shooter right?
Valve releasing a competitive game doesn’t prevent you from doing this. I for one am excited by the potential of this game. Then again, I’ve been playing Dota for 10 years so maybe I’m just a masochist.
I had a lot of good times and even more bad times with DotA over the years, until I finally freed myself from it years ago.
IceFrog being behind this backed by Valve bodes well, and I think the premise of an FPS/MOBA hybrid has promise, despite the market being insanely oversaturated already.
I’m not really interested in competitive games these days, but I hope it’ll be good to watch at least. Following The International was fun even after I quit DotA.
Trust me the market could use some competition. The only thing that really comes close to OW is Paladins.
Was gonna say. How is the hero shooter market over-saturated? There’s like 3 games that people actually know about, and like 2 of those are good/decent.
I could be mistaken, as I don’t really play competitive games anymore. I thought between Overwatch, Valorant, Apex, The Finals and what have you there was lots of stiff competition.
My first thought was that Valve was basically making a Paladins clone.
Whatever it ends up being, I’m not interested. Never cared for competitive gaming. Sad that Valve has decided to use part of their enormous talent pool for, well, this while almost any genre would’ve been better.
Also, this is already a highly saturated niche. I don’t doubt Valve’s technical prowess and knowhow to develop a game that can surpass all the other ones in quality, but a gilded turd is still a turd under that gold leaf, even if it’s technically the best turd in the world.
Competitive online games have been Valve‘s focus for well over a decade so it‘s in line with their portfolio. If anything, Alyx was an outlier they only did because they have a headset to sell it with. I think they know what they‘re doing. Sucks for you to not be their target audience though because they are pretty good at making games.
That’s unfortunate that it’s not a genre you personally are interested in, but it is a popular genre and Valve is a business. Just because it’s not to your tastes doesn’t mean it’s a waste of their talent.
I’m just curious why Valve looked at the oversaturated hero shooter market (seriously, we’ve had failures 8 years ago now) and said “Oh yeah, let’s devote our resources there”
edit: Like, I seriously can’t understand it. Not even Blizzard is coming out unscathed from Overwatch 2.
Overwatch 2 didn’t fall because it’s a hero shooter
this is where you say “It failed because…”
My assertion was that it was an imperfect hero shooter among many hero shooters. The more competition, the harder it is to enter a game.
Gestures broadly
Not really my responsibility to make an argument for you. Of all the reasons Overwatch 2 might not have performed well, it being a Hero Shooter doesn’t have any strong evidence and you didn’t provide anything showing that was the reason.
One could argue Overwatch 2 being a Hero Shooter is why it didn’t perform worse than it already has, given its problems.
Here you go. Reasons the hero shooter aspect is not working.
Blizzard’s Approach To Balancing in Overwatch 2 is Not Working
Overwatch 2 Cancels PvE Hero Mode, Reveals Seasons 5-7 Roadmap
Overwatch 2 players demand “faster” balancing fixes as ‘one-shot’ heroes run rampant
Overwatch 2 Is Failing Its Way Into Reinventing Overwatch 1
Overwatch 2 support role feels stale and needs a shake up, say fans
Overwatch 2 Dev Team Calm on Declining Player Engagement
Blizzard is bad at balancing the game - could be true of any game, doesn’t have to be a shooter
Blizzard cancels promised mode - Blizzard being bad at design and following through on promises.
See 1.
Forcing a game to become the sequel, not making meaningful changes other than monetization
See 1
Blizzard made a bad game
None of these are a result of Overwatch 2 being a shooter, and all of them are a result of Blizzard being shit at making quality games, caring about players, and following through on promises. So thank you, you have done a fantastic job demonstrating that Overwatch 2 being a shooter is not the reason it didn’t perform well.
Oh absolutely. I’m not conceited enough to imagine Valve is developing games for me or that I’m entitled to anything. Just venting my personal disappointment with their choice. I still consider them the cream of the crop in game and hardware development.
I thought overwatch was based on team fortress. Why not just a new team fortress?
It’s a Team Fortress Style Hero Shooter
Because it’s a Valve game
Because TF2 Inspired Overwatch
Get it right
Speaking of Valve games, why did I ever stop playing Left 4 Dead? I need to play that again.
SQUEEEEEE!!!
My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.
Man, I was taught “don’t judge a book by it’s cover” but you’re burying it by it’s genre, I hope you can experience new things once in a while .
deleted by creator
Well, it’s valve, so honestly the odds of it being genre-defining in an already established genre? Pretty high, actually. Seriously, when is the last time valve put out a shit game?
Here’s hoping it helps OW2 finally die.
deleted by creator
… OK name two!
/s
I honestly forgot about that piece of crap lol.
It’s been many years, maybe even decades, since I liked a straight up turn-based single player RPG. I seriously can’t think of one that has sucked me in since FFX. I even tried Divinity Original Sin 2 after so much hype and good reviews from my friends. But I just didn’t like it.
However, Baldur’s Gate 3 sucked me in. According to steam, approaching 100 hours of playtime (although I’m sure there is a good chunk of time where I just walked away with the PC with it “paused.”)
I’m not saying you’ll like the game, I have no idea. But to already be convinced that you won’t like it based on pretty much the nothing we’ve got it terribly presumptuous.
deleted by creator
I was very intentional with my language, and pointed out that we know pretty much nothing about the game, so claiming you know you won’t like it is h reasonable. This is nothing like having a pizza, not liking it, and then not getting that same pizza again. This is like not liking the pizza at one store, it’s much closer to saying you don’t like the pizza in one store, so you know you won’t like it in another. Still imperfect because it would be closer saying you’ve never had a pizza you like, so you won’t like the pizza in a new store, which is more reasonable because you have a lot of information about that pizza.
But we have virtually nothing about this game.
To be faaaaiiiiir… D:OS (both of them) make the age-old mistake of having really slow, uninteresting, prologuish RPG starts. It takes a solid 5h of powergaming or 10h+ of normal play to get past that hump. That’s the point where the story picks up and you have enough tools to start really taking advantage of the games sandbox.
With BG3 they really seemed to have learned their lessons.
Going to let an unannounced games rumored genre ruin your day?
Gamers need to set a better image of themselves.
deleted by creator
Edit:This was meant for the person above.
This seems reasonably different than the headline implies. It’s a hero shooter, in that there are classes based on heroes (like Team Fortress 2 as well). The gameplay is more moba it sounds like. I think I’ve only played one other moba shooter, and it failed quickly, so that’s different already.
It’s not a copy of OW, and even if it were it could still innovate. Half Life might be a “Doom Clone”, but it did stuff no one had done before. There’s plenty of innovation potential without inventing a new genre. Even if you do create a new genre, it’s probably still just evolution of existing things. No one ever has an original idea. It’s always inspired by their environment.
I hate beets. HATE them. I will eat durian, thousand-year eggs, stinky tofu, and a million other things that most people won’t touch… but beets? Fuck beets. Their sweet-yet-earthy funk is like a dead animal that has just started to decompose. I don’t care if they are cooked, pickled, or stewed in borscht… hate them and won’t touch them. They ruin everything they touch.
This is like that. They are cooking with lots of beet-like ingredients. Some people will love that. But as for me…I hate it… I hate just everything about it… and I hate it because I’ve experienced all those ingredients before. Over and over and over again. What they are making is for a very particular crowd, and I am not part of said crowd.
Won’t hurt to give it a shot, but I’ll be cautiously optimistic.
This seems reasonably different than the headline implies. It’s a hero shooter, in that there are classes based on heroes (like Team Fortress 2 as well). The gameplay is more moba it sounds like. I think I’ve only played one other moba shooter, and it failed quickly, so that’s different already.
It’s not a copy of OW, and even if it were it could still innovate. Half Life might be a “Doom Clone”, but it did stuff no one had done before. There’s plenty of innovation potential without inventing a new genre. Even if you do create a new genre, it’s probably still just evolution of existing things. No one ever has an original idea. It’s always inspired by their environment.
All fair points, and given the way Valve operates (like a free collective) this would only happen if there were some really passionate people leading and working on it.
That said, it’s still a mix of things I just really do not have any interest in. Competitive online game, esports focused, MOBA-like, PvP, hero shooter… that’s a whole lot of hard no-thanks from me.
I’d love some new light-narrative single player and/or co-op stuff from them, though.
Rejects all cookies on website
Website image:
The Newscast is not the images. It’s an annoying video they embed in all articles and then floats when you scroll. I actually have set an adblock rule to block that shit.
As for the images, for now hotlinking to Twitter images is possible, so:
Rip, in EU they cannot force targeting cookies so we can see
VPN to EU countries for all general article reading it is then. Fuck this is getting obnoxious.
It’s the EU’s fault and their stupid ill thought out law. Even they admit that it’s bad, and it’s only made things worse.
I don’t mean the banner ads for cookies, I’m referring to sites restricting viewable content based on your selection. Which seems to be illegal in the EU.
Who are these “they” that has admitted it’s a bad law?
It’s one of the best recent pieces of privacy legeslation. It’s not the EU’s fault that websites are scumbags insisting on making life difficult for people.
Yes it is. They completely failed to specify what would constitute compliance. They were warned repeatedly about this when the law first came out.
It has good intentions behind it but the law itself doesn’t work. They haven’t reduced privacy violations at all because everyone just clicks yes because it’s so frustrating, And it isn’t against the law to implement these dark patterns so what’s the point?
That’s interesting… bold move though. I can think of MANY failed 3rd person mobas.
Isn’t an overwatch style hero shooter just team fortress 2? Now get off my lawn, I have clouds to tell at.
Nah. TF2 is a shooter with 9 classes. People can double up on “soldier” for instance. A hero shooter has for one, a lot more classes / heroes (which comes from MOBAs), for two activated abilities on each hero which change the games significantly, and usually disables doubling up in competetive modes. You wouldn’t call Enemy Territory a hero shooter for instance.
Overwatch disabled doubling up well after launch, and only because they couldn’t or wouldn’t balance the game such that a 4 tank no DPS comp didn’t utterly cheese the game.
They brought it back as a gamemode called “open queue”, which nerfs tanks to be more in line with DPS.
So I guess in the end yes, it is tf2
I think you can get there in TF2 when considering subclasses via weapons loadouts. Demoknight for instance is a completely different play style than normal pipe/sticky demoman.
I stand by my assessment that overwatch is essentially team fortress 2 with a limit of one player per class and fewer game modes.
I don’t know the name of the trope, but it’s like when a cover gets more popular than the original. Except the person doing the cover (blizzard) is a huge scumbag.
I mean, okay, people can claim that every fps is just Doom with extra steps, doesn’t make the distinction irrellevant though. Mobas are their own thing, they aren’t called RTS anymore. Same with hero shooters. Tf2 isn’t a hero shooter.
If you set the server config to limit one player per class, and set the max team size to like 8, you basically have a hero shooter. That’s not an unusual config- some servers were just like that for years.
What’s missing ? “Each class has two powers” is an extremely specific metric I don’t think is a requirement for hero shooters, and even if it was you have the unique grenades on top of the more obvious “he can build a sentry, he can turn invisible”.
You could maybe argue there aren’t enough classes, but I don’t buy that. As long as you have enough for everyone on the team to play something different, you’re good. The characters in TF2 certainly have personality.
I knew someone who got really upset when I compared overwatch to TF2, but I think it was because they were emotionally invested in overwatch and felt bad when I was like “it’s kind of like this much older game I like more”. Saying the thing they love is kind of a knockoff made them feel bad.
Anyway. To your point. I wouldn’t call tf2 a hero shooter first. It’s not the best representation of the genre, probably. But to my point, I still stand by overwatch added very little on top of TF2. Most of Blizzard’s changes were changes in minor detail. It’s basically "more classes, fewer game modes, you can’t run your own server, and we’re going to try to sell you micro transactions "
Just the fact that you need to go through so many mental gymnastics to prove your point shows it. Tf2 is not a hero shooter, get over it.
It’s essentially a hero shooter. You shoot. It has heroes. I don’t know what else you want.
Going by that definition CS is a hero shooter.
So they’re ripping off the game that ripped them off. The industry is in an absolute state.
god this is like when everyone called first person shooters “doom clones”, overwatch is absolutely not a tf2 ripoff lmao, and making a hero shooter does not mean it’s an overwatch ripoff either.
There’s no such thing as an original idea. Just look at tvtropes. The whole idea is to make a new take on a previous idea, to integrate and innovate. No idea if this will be successful in doing that, but the premise alone shouldn’t condemn it.
Gigantic can’t catch a break :(
But when’s Half Life 3 coming out?
Never, at this point half life 3 failing would do more damage to the steam sales platform than half life 3 succeeding could make in a million years
I don’t see how that would damage anything though? It’s not like people would stop using steam if hl3 is bad. That’s ridiculous.
It might make Valve unlikely to make another game and a lot of people, including myself, would be hugely disappointed but I don’t think it would have any major negative effects beyond those two.
You also can’t MTX a Half Life 3 game to hell and back. Years ago, I knew the next Half Life game would be VR. They’ve always used the Half Life games to showcase new tech or models(the Episodes). Didn’t realize it would be VR Exclusive or a prequel.
At least the community has given up and is producing their own sequels and spinoffs.
Team Fortress th-… 2: episode 1?