Doesn’t matter to a kid with a phone and unlimited time and willpower. I know with 100% certainty, if I was 16 and wanted to play Balatro, I wouldn’t be talking to you, I’d have an .apk already.
Piracy being the only way to get a game isn’t beneficial to the dev, and Balatro is the kind of game that deserves our money. It could have easily been jammed to the gill with paid boosts premium decks, etc, but instead, they just made a good game.
This post is clearly full of people WHO CLEARLY HAVE NO GAMBLING PROBLEM.
The arguments are even more ridiculous if you substitute an addictive drug for gambling.
“But vicodin and oxy are legal, how’s that fair!”
“Plenty of kids are prescribed painkillers in other countries and they are fine!”
“The regulatory agency is just trying to punish heroin for being way better than the rest!”
“I think all drugs should be legal, anyone should be allowed to make whatever mistakes they want with no oversight!”
I have seen people burn money in games just as much as some who has gambling problems. Just one has the person expectations being hoping if earning more to continue to gamble with, while gamers who spend cash are looking for more extrinsic values that are still just as useless or not worth it. I do say these game devs are more deserving of the cash but loot boxes exist and others forms of gambling that gets a blind eye. Balatro isn’t even real cash. It’s not the same.
I think there are dynamics at play her but to keep it short. I admire your steadfast disappointment towards gambling or playing with odds. However, for a game like balatro being completely free to continue playing after the initial purchase. As far as I can tell, there are no micro transactions or push for players to sink their wallets into the game. The entire game is basically a simulation. All randomizations are predetermined based on a seed. You can set it or you can figure it out if you are smart enough in math and cryptography. However, ratings are more annoyance than being a real guard against the real problems happening right now.
There are many more dissatisfying things. I doubt we should fight over the rating. Instead we should be in agreement that gambling and other pay to play odds like loot boxes is bad and stricter regulations.
Its not about real money spending. Loot boxes would be problematic without spending real money in my opinion. Thats why I think poker games that dont use any real money should also be marked for adults.
Unfortunately balatro uses poker as a base, and I dont think its changed it enough that it still doesnt resemble poker.
Im surprised the loot boxes in ea games are still around, did the rating organization comment on that at all?
at the end of the day, problems are at different views here. I find games are very similar in many aspects, such as relying heavily on RNG to make outcomes varied. If normal no cash poker is adult, then games like uno and other forms of RNG based games like rolling dice can just as much be adult from your reasoning. I am not particular to labeling games in this way.
there are many more nuances to labeling as adult oriented, such as ability to cause oneself to be worse off in life to the point that it is harmful (like losing your life savings or going into debt) or the content is sexual. that is what I would consider requirement for labeling as adult. I personally think anything that is tied with cash should be labeled as adult. yet, right now, this line is heavily blurred by microtransactions, lootboxes, cosmetics, in game currency and other ways to play with cash.
Playing with cash should be adult, but in game cash you cannot sell or buy is not something I think I can equate here because I see it as another incremental simulator kind of game, like many idle games are like now a days.
Rolling dice and uno have different goals, mainly they are competitive. Balatro and poker is a game where you chase ever higher something whether its points or money.
I agree anything cash should be adult since children dont work and have their own money to begin with. If they want to make a kids version then price in the IAPs and sell it as a whole package like we used to get as kids.
Its sort of funny, we are basically having the gateway drug argument here with games. Balatro could be a small step to other seriously predatory games. I can see how thats on the more strict side of the spectrum though, but I’m more pro regulation than anti.
I deleted my other comment because dogs jumped on me and somehow in the mix up, I pressed the post button, so I removed the partially malformed comment.
On the first topic, your reasoning to differentiate what the goals of competitive games and “chasing higher something” is just not well put into words here. From what I am reading, you tried to make them look different on the higher level view but failed to showcase that, which for both sides you claim one is competitive and the other side is not competitive. However, most definitions for being competitive is to chase ever higher “somethings” for which is mostly points but in other aspects can be money. Hence your reasoning has basically equated them even more deeply. So your point to make them different needs to be redone with that can make your point more clear and is reasonably opposites.
Moving on, I didn’t agree completely that playing with cash is strictly adult. More or less, anything that requires express consent, such as decisions that involve risk of self hurting activities (playing with cash is one of these activities because of our dependency on money), and other adult topics that are not relevant here. There are things that kids can buy to play games for or gain cosmetics for RP or whatever, however I understand the problem will be account selling shenanigans, but that at least raises the bar on barrier of entry too, and most not doing it. Kids need to learn to be less impulsive and I think that is more of what is the root of the problem in this case. We need regulations that would punish companies that try to exploit this.
Yeah, gateway drugs… Look, I know that actual hard to quit drugs are not close to the same as these psychological only addictive activities. Physical withdrawal from those drugs are miles more deadly and impactful on someone’s body and brain. I do think people can take some addictions too far but those cases are more likely to be popular in the news than the more tame stories that highlight what the majority will experience. I am still adamant that balatro is no where close to this topic. It is not able to transition you to something else and this is more on an individual basis and not really generalizable. If someone is being socially pressured by friends or others to do it then balatro will better prepare someone to not make bigger mistakes, so in reality it has a positive than a negative.
This is why I have a hard time reasoning with you on this. I will like to move on, so I will end it here. I feel like we have made our points and we will decide for our own. When it comes down to it, I will more than likely vote for any regulation to pass on restricting gambling and other forms of negative addictions, while weighing in any freedoms that may be reduced or affected. We will see, happy holidays.
Its bad because children will associate poker with a good enjoyable time, which might lead them to a bad situation later on when they are permitted inside casinos.
I consider most arcades with ticket prizes to be gambling as well, and shouldnt be for kids. Most kids dont realize they could have just bought the prize for far cheaper.
And yes vodka pong is bad too, go yell at the rich vodka corporatists who paid the rating board to pass them though.
I’ll give you a tip, nearly all certification or rating boards are grifts.
This is sequence, a simple game where you place chips on the spaces that match the cards on your hand. The objective of the game is to complete 2 lines that are 5 chips long. Basically like connect 4. Do you think it should also be rated 18+?
We can all imagine the imagery of balatro being somewhat a problem.
But less of a problem compared to games with actual gambling for actual money in the form of lootboxes or gacha mechanisms?
If you can get that to make sense, i’d love to hear it. Can there be a serious warning regarding gambling on balatro? for sure. But how is gambling imagery 18+, and actual gambling with actual money 3+? That’s just insane.
What is most likely to get kids to become gambling addicts? Them learning pokerhands via balatro, or them gambling real money on lootboxes & gacha games and getting addicted to the thrill of winning after gamblling money?
No that part is very hypocritical, and I’m sure it has a lot to do with how much money the big game developers can throw around to make sure their loot box game isnt marked for adults.
I think both lootboxes and poker games are bad in this sense, its just the other reasons people are giving that are nonsense.
To say clearly, the rating board is hypocritical and should also mark lootbox games accordingly.
Because calling it a pokergame makes me think you haven’t. It’s a deckbuilder that uses pokerhands (and impossible pokerhands) as mechanic to score, but there is no actual gambling, and except for which hands exist in poker and their relative value, you don’t learn any pokerskills. You also don’t do any gambling, you modify your deck of cards, and gather jokers that modify what cards are worth and how they score, and end up also making hands that are impossible in poker etc…
I can imagine the imagery and the link to poker to require some warning, but i’d find it hard to say it stimulates you to gamble, as it’s not a gambling game, doesn’t teach you the poker rules, and is a completely different kind of game. It just uses poker to flavor the gameplay, and uses some other poker terms (blinds, ante, chips) to indicate difficulty/score.
It does? I guess we’ll differ on that opinion i guess.
Unless showing you a hand of playingcards means you look like a general poker gambling site. It has a very specific artstyle, and since its gameplay is completely different from actual poker, so is how it behaves. For me it’s close to a slay the spire or heartstone kind of game, and looks like that…
I didnt mean specific if I said that, it generally looks like one. Like an old one from yahoo or something. The heavy poker themes and learning poker hands is enough.
Why don’t people reach out to “Dirk Bosmans, Director General PEGI S.A.”?
PEGI isn’t a living creature. PEGI isn’t giving out biased ratings. It’s the people working there, and the person in charge. Actual people that actually exist here on this planet with us. “Talking” to a company is imaginary bullshit.
Kmart and target both sell literal “poker kits” with decks of cards and chips with no restriction on who can buy it. In the toy section with the other board games no less.
If you search for “poker” on PEGI’s site, it seems that many games which are actually about simulated gambling are rated 12 or 16. They seem to think Balatro is more likely to expose children to realistic gambling than, say, Prominence Poker or Pure Hold’em World Poker Championship, which seems completely bizarre, given that those games are about playing poker and Balatro is a fancy kind of solitaire with no betting.
The pathetic thing is games of the ilk of balatro and luck be a landlord (also OG peggle) are actually the kind of game that plays with your gambling impulses but in a healthy and fun way, these games should be celebrated for subverting the language of gambling to make something beautiful, how pathetic to have so little actual understanding of video games and yet have this kind of power to impact the industry.
I want to see someone take an actual slot machine rip out all the evil bits and replace it with a computer running Luck Be A Landlord with custom flashing lights for when you win, the slot machine lever and all that stuff.
I’ve always suspected I might be susceptible to gambling addiction so I stay out of casinos.
Instead, I go to the arcade. Which is like a low stakes child casino. Win a bunch of tickets and then either buy something stupid with them, or, just straight give them to some kid.
My point being, we’ve specifically constructed casino-like facilities for children and it’s regularly accepted, so why should Balatro be different?
You shouldn’t, you’ve already lost enough allies. It has become very clear that cripples and hall monitors does not a majority make. I don’t believe in your ethical maxims of sensitivity and strict language policing.
I’m sure you think the celebrated George Carlin is a massive cunt, in duller words.
You’ll never successfully change the world like this. This kind of language demonstrably does nothing for you. We all know you believe “the common clay” should shut up and speak through filters approved by you and yours. Fuck you.
You ruined the culture of the left. You changed it from the side of union men to the side of flamboyant, sensitive baristas. To the point that you lost a lot of the vote even from unionized workers.
Most people see it. Few, except the opposition, point to it as a negative.
Partly because they become the opposition by pointing to it. Anyone bothered by the change regardless of their standpoint of taxes, regulation, and public services are labeled right wing and pushed to admit it. They might as well go vote for the billionaires’ cause if they don’t want to shut up about their problems with sensitive liberals, right? Right. So it seems that’s exactly what they did.
People don’t like people who tell them to shut up, sit down, and behave.
People don’t like people who get so offended that they kick you out.
That becomes a problem when you treat the majority like that, and not just a minority of very misbehaved assholes.
Guess why “The One Joke” became so prolific? Some creatively gay progressives desperately wanted to push the majority to comply with a set of new very strange expectations and taboos, and went about it in an incredibly obnoxious, reckless way. It became a huge meme because a majority, not an extremist minority, thought it was weird, ridiculous, stupid, overconfident, pathetic, and probably a whole host of other things.
This game teaches - by way of images, information and gameplay - skills and knowledge that are used in poker. During gameplay, the player is rewarded with ‘chips’ for playing certain hands. The player is able to access a list of poker hand names. As the player hovers over these poker hands, the game explains what types of cards the player would need in order to play certain hands. As the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points. Because these are hands that exist in the real world, this knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life game of poker
So, this game teaches skills and knowledge that are used in poker. The skills in knowledge are limited to… playing and making poker hands. That’s it. Also, “as the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points” – is hilariously funny. The idea that knowledge of what a poker hand is is anything related to the dangers of gambling is ridiculous.
My thief archer build in Morrowind and Skyrim lead me to a life of thievery and now I’m serving a life sentence at maxium security prison. Very sound logic.
It’s really dumb if you know the two games (poker and Balatro).
Poker is a game of incomplete information where you need one single higher ranked hand than your opponent per round. The stakes are money you bet that your hand is better. Bluffing is an important part of the game.
Balatro is mostly a game with complete information (apart from the order of remaining cards in your deck and certain bosses that flip your cards). You bet no money. There is no bluffing. Money does not correlate to chips. It is about the rating of your hand (poker has no rating, only relative ranking). You play multiple hands. You can’t fold. Bluffing doesn’t exist. Cards can be improved, ratings can be improved, the decks can look nothing like poker decks, etc.
I know this is anecdotal but I’m now living in a ditch because of Balatro. I never gambled before in my life and all the poker knowledge Balatro me taught caused me to start extreme gambling and now I’m dead in a ditch.
I wonder what they rated Pavlov VR, ya know the FPS game in VR that forces you to handle guns the way they would in real life and is popular with ex-military because of their transferrable skills?
As the game goes on, the poker hands also get increasingly unrealistic and different from real poker including things like five of a kind, and a pair being worth more than a royal flush.
If you tried to take the skills you learn from balatro to a poker table you would get kicked out basically immediately.
I’ve never gambled, but I’m pretty sure if I got 1.630e11 chips at a casino, something bad would happen to me, the casino, and the economy if I cashed it out. I think that’s 84 billion chips…
Times are different now, there’s no more turning up in a ditch. If you start winning too often, they’re gonna keep an eye on you and try to determine if you’re cheating. If you’re not, they’re gonna ask you to leave and ban you from the casino before you can actually win anything significant — the justification given is that it’s their casino and they can refuse entry to whoever they want. If you are cheating, then you’re just going to jail.
I just picked it up. I was going to wait for a better sale because I probably don’t have time to play it, but I’ll happily support them here, and I’ll probably play it with my kids.
Screw PEGI.
Edit: picked it up and it was a blast. My kids watched and now they want to pay too. Good game is good.
Dragon Quest 11 has a T-for-Teen rating and it’s got a literal casino built into the game. Roulette, poker, and slot machines. This isn’t even uncommon for JRPGs. Curious how the ratings agencies just glaze over this fact when assigning their scores.
This is the part I can’t figure out. It’s not just indie games: ages ago, Pokémon dropped the casinos from their games specifically to avoid having their age rating bumped in NA and EU. So clearly they sometimes account for gambling in side content. But somehow other franchises have kept them in, and aren’t suffering.
Does it just depend on whether or not the particular person assigned to review your game is a hardass about particular things?
They probably have some checklist which has vague definitions of “glamourising” gambling. I reckon this game unwittingly strays into the red tape in its presentation along with the poker theme (like I’ve said elsewhere it’s more a maths game than a poker game). The music and lights despite being atmospheric and ambient probably have some similarities to fruit machine like environments in the sense the music is repetitive and there is flashing visual feedback.
Edit: Should say it’s still B.S. to rate it 18. Just that I can imagine ratings boards can’t apply independent thought/logic.
One looks like gambling but is actually a fun roguelite card game, the other one looks like fun but is actually a gambling game. Guess which one is rated 18+?
spoiler
Okay I lied, FC24 doesn’t even look like fun, but that’s my personal opinion.
Theoretically stores in Europe are forbidden from selling 18+ games to underage customers.
Practically, almost no one follows this. Although digital storefronts like Steam do, some parents do, and more importantly there could be age restrictions on Youtube and Twitch gameplays.
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Doesn’t matter in the slightest.
me, age 12, San Andreas
18 is the highest rating. It’s equivalent to the ESRB “AO” rating, and many storefronts will not sell it, period.
Doesn’t matter to a kid with a phone and unlimited time and willpower. I know with 100% certainty, if I was 16 and wanted to play Balatro, I wouldn’t be talking to you, I’d have an .apk already.
Storefront? Lmao.
Piracy being the only way to get a game isn’t beneficial to the dev, and Balatro is the kind of game that deserves our money. It could have easily been jammed to the gill with paid boosts premium decks, etc, but instead, they just made a good game.
I went looking for a patreon or donation page… Guys who get hit with this should just go that route. He doesn’t have a general one up.
We can’t control the bullshit, but we can side-step it.
This post is clearly full of people WHO CLEARLY HAVE NO GAMBLING PROBLEM.
The arguments are even more ridiculous if you substitute an addictive drug for gambling.
“But vicodin and oxy are legal, how’s that fair!” “Plenty of kids are prescribed painkillers in other countries and they are fine!” “The regulatory agency is just trying to punish heroin for being way better than the rest!” “I think all drugs should be legal, anyone should be allowed to make whatever mistakes they want with no oversight!”
I have seen people burn money in games just as much as some who has gambling problems. Just one has the person expectations being hoping if earning more to continue to gamble with, while gamers who spend cash are looking for more extrinsic values that are still just as useless or not worth it. I do say these game devs are more deserving of the cash but loot boxes exist and others forms of gambling that gets a blind eye. Balatro isn’t even real cash. It’s not the same.
I simply wouldnt give one game a pass to avoid hypocrisy. The loot box games should be marked for adults or changed.
I think there are dynamics at play her but to keep it short. I admire your steadfast disappointment towards gambling or playing with odds. However, for a game like balatro being completely free to continue playing after the initial purchase. As far as I can tell, there are no micro transactions or push for players to sink their wallets into the game. The entire game is basically a simulation. All randomizations are predetermined based on a seed. You can set it or you can figure it out if you are smart enough in math and cryptography. However, ratings are more annoyance than being a real guard against the real problems happening right now.
There are many more dissatisfying things. I doubt we should fight over the rating. Instead we should be in agreement that gambling and other pay to play odds like loot boxes is bad and stricter regulations.
Its not about real money spending. Loot boxes would be problematic without spending real money in my opinion. Thats why I think poker games that dont use any real money should also be marked for adults.
Unfortunately balatro uses poker as a base, and I dont think its changed it enough that it still doesnt resemble poker.
Im surprised the loot boxes in ea games are still around, did the rating organization comment on that at all?
at the end of the day, problems are at different views here. I find games are very similar in many aspects, such as relying heavily on RNG to make outcomes varied. If normal no cash poker is adult, then games like uno and other forms of RNG based games like rolling dice can just as much be adult from your reasoning. I am not particular to labeling games in this way.
there are many more nuances to labeling as adult oriented, such as ability to cause oneself to be worse off in life to the point that it is harmful (like losing your life savings or going into debt) or the content is sexual. that is what I would consider requirement for labeling as adult. I personally think anything that is tied with cash should be labeled as adult. yet, right now, this line is heavily blurred by microtransactions, lootboxes, cosmetics, in game currency and other ways to play with cash.
Playing with cash should be adult, but in game cash you cannot sell or buy is not something I think I can equate here because I see it as another incremental simulator kind of game, like many idle games are like now a days.
Rolling dice and uno have different goals, mainly they are competitive. Balatro and poker is a game where you chase ever higher something whether its points or money.
I agree anything cash should be adult since children dont work and have their own money to begin with. If they want to make a kids version then price in the IAPs and sell it as a whole package like we used to get as kids.
Its sort of funny, we are basically having the gateway drug argument here with games. Balatro could be a small step to other seriously predatory games. I can see how thats on the more strict side of the spectrum though, but I’m more pro regulation than anti.
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I deleted my other comment because dogs jumped on me and somehow in the mix up, I pressed the post button, so I removed the partially malformed comment.
On the first topic, your reasoning to differentiate what the goals of competitive games and “chasing higher something” is just not well put into words here. From what I am reading, you tried to make them look different on the higher level view but failed to showcase that, which for both sides you claim one is competitive and the other side is not competitive. However, most definitions for being competitive is to chase ever higher “somethings” for which is mostly points but in other aspects can be money. Hence your reasoning has basically equated them even more deeply. So your point to make them different needs to be redone with that can make your point more clear and is reasonably opposites.
Moving on, I didn’t agree completely that playing with cash is strictly adult. More or less, anything that requires express consent, such as decisions that involve risk of self hurting activities (playing with cash is one of these activities because of our dependency on money), and other adult topics that are not relevant here. There are things that kids can buy to play games for or gain cosmetics for RP or whatever, however I understand the problem will be account selling shenanigans, but that at least raises the bar on barrier of entry too, and most not doing it. Kids need to learn to be less impulsive and I think that is more of what is the root of the problem in this case. We need regulations that would punish companies that try to exploit this.
Yeah, gateway drugs… Look, I know that actual hard to quit drugs are not close to the same as these psychological only addictive activities. Physical withdrawal from those drugs are miles more deadly and impactful on someone’s body and brain. I do think people can take some addictions too far but those cases are more likely to be popular in the news than the more tame stories that highlight what the majority will experience. I am still adamant that balatro is no where close to this topic. It is not able to transition you to something else and this is more on an individual basis and not really generalizable. If someone is being socially pressured by friends or others to do it then balatro will better prepare someone to not make bigger mistakes, so in reality it has a positive than a negative.
This is why I have a hard time reasoning with you on this. I will like to move on, so I will end it here. I feel like we have made our points and we will decide for our own. When it comes down to it, I will more than likely vote for any regulation to pass on restricting gambling and other forms of negative addictions, while weighing in any freedoms that may be reduced or affected. We will see, happy holidays.
But this is like saying “ski ball is dangerous because it’s a gateway to beer pong. By the way we see no issues with kids playing vodka pong”
Its bad because children will associate poker with a good enjoyable time, which might lead them to a bad situation later on when they are permitted inside casinos.
I consider most arcades with ticket prizes to be gambling as well, and shouldnt be for kids. Most kids dont realize they could have just bought the prize for far cheaper.
And yes vodka pong is bad too, go yell at the rich vodka corporatists who paid the rating board to pass them though.
I’ll give you a tip, nearly all certification or rating boards are grifts.
By that logic Yahtzee teaches kids dice are fun and trains them to think craps is fun.
I wouldnt go that far, no.
I’d rather have kids get interested in playing poker than pulling a slot machine lever.
Id rather neither, I can’t think of a single good thing that would come of teaching a child poker.
This is sequence, a simple game where you place chips on the spaces that match the cards on your hand. The objective of the game is to complete 2 lines that are 5 chips long. Basically like connect 4. Do you think it should also be rated 18+?
We can all imagine the imagery of balatro being somewhat a problem.
But less of a problem compared to games with actual gambling for actual money in the form of lootboxes or gacha mechanisms?
If you can get that to make sense, i’d love to hear it. Can there be a serious warning regarding gambling on balatro? for sure. But how is gambling imagery 18+, and actual gambling with actual money 3+? That’s just insane.
What is most likely to get kids to become gambling addicts? Them learning pokerhands via balatro, or them gambling real money on lootboxes & gacha games and getting addicted to the thrill of winning after gamblling money?
No that part is very hypocritical, and I’m sure it has a lot to do with how much money the big game developers can throw around to make sure their loot box game isnt marked for adults.
I think both lootboxes and poker games are bad in this sense, its just the other reasons people are giving that are nonsense.
To say clearly, the rating board is hypocritical and should also mark lootbox games accordingly.
Have you ever played balatro?
Because calling it a pokergame makes me think you haven’t. It’s a deckbuilder that uses pokerhands (and impossible pokerhands) as mechanic to score, but there is no actual gambling, and except for which hands exist in poker and their relative value, you don’t learn any pokerskills. You also don’t do any gambling, you modify your deck of cards, and gather jokers that modify what cards are worth and how they score, and end up also making hands that are impossible in poker etc…
I can imagine the imagery and the link to poker to require some warning, but i’d find it hard to say it stimulates you to gamble, as it’s not a gambling game, doesn’t teach you the poker rules, and is a completely different kind of game. It just uses poker to flavor the gameplay, and uses some other poker terms (blinds, ante, chips) to indicate difficulty/score.
I dont disagree with what you brought up but you left out that the game literally looks similar to any general poker gambling site.
Its poker with a twist, which absolutely exists in casinos.
It does? I guess we’ll differ on that opinion i guess.
Unless showing you a hand of playingcards means you look like a general poker gambling site. It has a very specific artstyle, and since its gameplay is completely different from actual poker, so is how it behaves. For me it’s close to a slay the spire or heartstone kind of game, and looks like that…
I didnt mean specific if I said that, it generally looks like one. Like an old one from yahoo or something. The heavy poker themes and learning poker hands is enough.
Tell me you are corrupted to the core, without telling me you are corrupted to the core.
I wish this trend would die out. Tell me your x without telling me your x is so fucking pretentious and annoying.
Pretentious though?
Pretentious - attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
Yes.
You and I have wildly different associations with this construct.
To me it sounds like silly phrasing. Just another version of “doth protest”
Tell me you’re on the internet too much without telling me you’re on the internet too much.
He’s JustAnIdiot. PlsIgnore.
What’s wrong with that ? The real world is faaaaar more insane
You and I are in the real world right now.
Why don’t people reach out to “Dirk Bosmans, Director General PEGI S.A.”?
PEGI isn’t a living creature. PEGI isn’t giving out biased ratings. It’s the people working there, and the person in charge. Actual people that actually exist here on this planet with us. “Talking” to a company is imaginary bullshit.
Listen. If there’s a white man in charge and aren’t yourself a wealthy white man, you’re in for a bad time.
Did he try getting a friendly industry insider appointed to the regulatory body to “facilitate” ?
You didn’t ask the question the ea way.
You’re supposed to ask with a hefty bribe.
Don’t need a bribe when EA is the one on the board doing the ratings.
Any proof of this?
Is the rating purely because it uses playing cards? Poker hands?
Yahtzee and literal poker with betting are included in Nintendo clubhouse/worldwide 51 and it’s rated Pegi-12.
Would balatro get a pass if it used cards numbered 1-13 instead of traditional cards?
This whole thing is bonkers.
Anyone can walk into a store and buy a deck of cards.
I bet the gift shop of any casino in Las Vegas would sell a souvenir deck of cards to a kid without a second thought.
Kmart and target both sell literal “poker kits” with decks of cards and chips with no restriction on who can buy it. In the toy section with the other board games no less.
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He’s Australian, Kmart is still fully operational in kangaroo land
The logical conclusion is that Australia isn’t just “down under,” it’s the underworld where call failed American chains go after they die.
Let’s go to Venture!
Okay then, how does Hungry Jacks fit into that chain of logic?
Well, the burgers are better at hungry jacks!
Burger King just hasn’t died yet.
If it wasn’t for regulations, they’d happily let the kids shovel their money into the slots.
Used to do that all the time as a kid, but a slot machine taking 2 pence a time is a far cry from one where you give it your bank card and go ham.
If you search for “poker” on PEGI’s site, it seems that many games which are actually about simulated gambling are rated 12 or 16. They seem to think Balatro is more likely to expose children to realistic gambling than, say, Prominence Poker or Pure Hold’em World Poker Championship, which seems completely bizarre, given that those games are about playing poker and Balatro is a fancy kind of solitaire with no betting.
It’s clearly market manipulation.
The pathetic thing is games of the ilk of balatro and luck be a landlord (also OG peggle) are actually the kind of game that plays with your gambling impulses but in a healthy and fun way, these games should be celebrated for subverting the language of gambling to make something beautiful, how pathetic to have so little actual understanding of video games and yet have this kind of power to impact the industry.
First time I’ve seen someone mention Luck be a Landlord. Really fun game.
I want to see someone take an actual slot machine rip out all the evil bits and replace it with a computer running Luck Be A Landlord with custom flashing lights for when you win, the slot machine lever and all that stuff.
It would be pretty awesome
I’ve always suspected I might be susceptible to gambling addiction so I stay out of casinos.
Instead, I go to the arcade. Which is like a low stakes child casino. Win a bunch of tickets and then either buy something stupid with them, or, just straight give them to some kid.
My point being, we’ve specifically constructed casino-like facilities for children and it’s regularly accepted, so why should Balatro be different?
Gambling at an arcade is exactly the same. All you’ve done is lower the stakes so hopefully it couldn’t affect you.
There’s a scam to steal money from kids in pretty much every grocery store near where I live. We call them claw machines.
Yeah how dare you pay $9.99 one time to gamble all you want! If you’re gonna get those dopamine hits, you better be spending real money at the tables!
The thing you have to understand about PEGI is that they are mentally challenged.
Please don’t use folk’s medical condition as an insult.
Please stop pretending to be offended on other people’s behalf simply to draw attention to yourself
Y’all bots?
Wow, I rarely expect to find comments like this on Lemmy. Keep it up!
You’d have to shut me up and push me out.
You shouldn’t, you’ve already lost enough allies. It has become very clear that cripples and hall monitors does not a majority make. I don’t believe in your ethical maxims of sensitivity and strict language policing.
I’m sure you think the celebrated George Carlin is a massive cunt, in duller words.
Bro, they politely asked you not to use potentially hurtful language in an open forum.
Is that really how you react in the real world of someone says “I don’t like that, please stop?” Because that’s some abuser-coded behavior right there
You’ll never successfully change the world like this. This kind of language demonstrably does nothing for you. We all know you believe “the common clay” should shut up and speak through filters approved by you and yours. Fuck you.
You ruined the culture of the left. You changed it from the side of union men to the side of flamboyant, sensitive baristas. To the point that you lost a lot of the vote even from unionized workers.
Lose everything in the next 4 years.
Dude you realize English is not a static language right? You’re making an ass out of yourself.
Lol based
I know.
Most people see it. Few, except the opposition, point to it as a negative.
Partly because they become the opposition by pointing to it. Anyone bothered by the change regardless of their standpoint of taxes, regulation, and public services are labeled right wing and pushed to admit it. They might as well go vote for the billionaires’ cause if they don’t want to shut up about their problems with sensitive liberals, right? Right. So it seems that’s exactly what they did.
People don’t like people who tell them to shut up, sit down, and behave.
People don’t like people who get so offended that they kick you out.
That becomes a problem when you treat the majority like that, and not just a minority of very misbehaved assholes.
Guess why “The One Joke” became so prolific? Some creatively gay progressives desperately wanted to push the majority to comply with a set of new very strange expectations and taboos, and went about it in an incredibly obnoxious, reckless way. It became a huge meme because a majority, not an extremist minority, thought it was weird, ridiculous, stupid, overconfident, pathetic, and probably a whole host of other things.
Mate, they made a joke. Kinda like the ones the celebrated George Carlin made.
That was not a joke. That was a serious request.
The reasoning in question:
So, this game teaches skills and knowledge that are used in poker. The skills in knowledge are limited to… playing and making poker hands. That’s it. Also, “as the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points” – is hilariously funny. The idea that knowledge of what a poker hand is is anything related to the dangers of gambling is ridiculous.
My thief archer build in Morrowind and Skyrim lead me to a life of thievery and now I’m serving a life sentence at maxium security prison. Very sound logic.
I keep pulling the hermit card out of my tarot deck, but it hasn’t doubled my money! Have I learned incorrectly??
It’s really dumb if you know the two games (poker and Balatro).
Poker is a game of incomplete information where you need one single higher ranked hand than your opponent per round. The stakes are money you bet that your hand is better. Bluffing is an important part of the game.
Balatro is mostly a game with complete information (apart from the order of remaining cards in your deck and certain bosses that flip your cards). You bet no money. There is no bluffing. Money does not correlate to chips. It is about the rating of your hand (poker has no rating, only relative ranking). You play multiple hands. You can’t fold. Bluffing doesn’t exist. Cards can be improved, ratings can be improved, the decks can look nothing like poker decks, etc.
I know this is anecdotal but I’m now living in a ditch because of Balatro. I never gambled before in my life and all the poker knowledge Balatro me taught caused me to start extreme gambling and now I’m dead in a ditch.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Can’t. I’m a little too dead for pics
Ok, I’ll believe you this time…
have some passerby take the picutres, you dummdumm
Yup that checks out. Say hi to Betty White for me!
I wonder what they rated Pavlov VR, ya know the FPS game in VR that forces you to handle guns the way they would in real life and is popular with ex-military because of their transferrable skills?
I mean that would definitely get an 18 rating, I’m not sure what you are meaning to say
As the game goes on, the poker hands also get increasingly unrealistic and different from real poker including things like five of a kind, and a pair being worth more than a royal flush.
If you tried to take the skills you learn from balatro to a poker table you would get kicked out basically immediately.
“Sir, you can’t bring stone slabs to the table and play them as if they were cards. Also, where did these glass shards come from?”
I had a run where I legitimately had to stop and compare the point values a Two Pair Vs. One Pair Vs. Straight Flush
And ONE PAIR wound up being the one with the highest point value…
I was still 600 dollars short of winning against the Boss Blind, ending my run
I place a torn up joker on the table, a tarot card, a llanowar elf card, and a pair of threes
“So with my score multiplier basically I own the casino.”
The dealer frantically calls security
“I’m sorry, the Llanowar Elves are banned, you should keep up with the meta” Activates the Pot of Greed and draw two.
“This is worth eighteen bazillion chips. Here is five dollars.”
I’ve never gambled, but I’m pretty sure if I got 1.630e11 chips at a casino, something bad would happen to me, the casino, and the economy if I cashed it out. I think that’s 84 billion chips…
Times are different now, there’s no more turning up in a ditch. If you start winning too often, they’re gonna keep an eye on you and try to determine if you’re cheating. If you’re not, they’re gonna ask you to leave and ban you from the casino before you can actually win anything significant — the justification given is that it’s their casino and they can refuse entry to whoever they want. If you are cheating, then you’re just going to jail.
It’s 163 Billion chips.
1.630e11 is the same as 1.630 x 10^11
Which probably wouldn’t be that bad for the economy, but it might bankrupt the casino, depending on the value of the chips.
Whoops, off by a bit, lol
One “teaches” you to gamble, the other allows you to gamble. And the one that just teaches you has a higher rating. Crazy.
Totally his fault for not heeding the ancient warning.
Give a man a fish, you get PEGI 3+. Teach a man to fish, 18+ you sucker.
Guess I just have to buy Balatro harder then
I just picked it up. I was going to wait for a better sale because I probably don’t have time to play it, but I’ll happily support them here, and I’ll probably play it with my kids.
Screw PEGI.
Edit: picked it up and it was a blast. My kids watched and now they want to pay too. Good game is good.
Learning the names and ranking of poker hands is the devil!
Dragon Quest 11 has a T-for-Teen rating and it’s got a literal casino built into the game. Roulette, poker, and slot machines. This isn’t even uncommon for JRPGs. Curious how the ratings agencies just glaze over this fact when assigning their scores.
Just needs a good cover. Like Watership Down. Nice lil thing about bunnies.
This is the part I can’t figure out. It’s not just indie games: ages ago, Pokémon dropped the casinos from their games specifically to avoid having their age rating bumped in NA and EU. So clearly they sometimes account for gambling in side content. But somehow other franchises have kept them in, and aren’t suffering.
Does it just depend on whether or not the particular person assigned to review your game is a hardass about particular things?
They probably have some checklist which has vague definitions of “glamourising” gambling. I reckon this game unwittingly strays into the red tape in its presentation along with the poker theme (like I’ve said elsewhere it’s more a maths game than a poker game). The music and lights despite being atmospheric and ambient probably have some similarities to fruit machine like environments in the sense the music is repetitive and there is flashing visual feedback.
Edit: Should say it’s still B.S. to rate it 18. Just that I can imagine ratings boards can’t apply independent thought/logic.
One looks like gambling but is actually a fun roguelite card game, the other one looks like fun but is actually a gambling game. Guess which one is rated 18+?
spoiler
Okay I lied, FC24 doesn’t even look like fun, but that’s my personal opinion.
Seems like an advertising opportunity. First solitaire game rated 18+ without any gambling, I assume no nudity, language, etc.
There’s actually lots of foul language while playing Balatro, but it all comes from the person playing, not the game itself.
What does this mean practically? Are they not allowed to sell it some places anymore if it’s 18+?
Maybe if they decide to make box copies of the game.
Theoretically stores in Europe are forbidden from selling 18+ games to underage customers.
Practically, almost no one follows this. Although digital storefronts like Steam do, some parents do, and more importantly there could be age restrictions on Youtube and Twitch gameplays.