One looks like gambling but is actually a fun roguelite card game, the other one looks like fun but is actually a gambling game. Guess which one is rated 18+?
spoiler
Okay I lied, FC24 doesn’t even look like fun, but that’s my personal opinion.
It’s entirely his fault for not being a multi-billion dollar company which actively invests in better ratings. In capitalism, there is no fairness - there is only money.
This reminds me of the documentary “This film is not yet rated”. The point was that the MPAA gives way more leniency to big budget studios when giving ratings. The net effect of this is it kills the low budget films before they can be released.
And that’s honestly exactly what I would expect. It’s not suitable for a 4yo, but there’s nothing in it to warrant a teen rating either. So yeah, E with a note sounds exactly right.
Sure if we were talking about a reasonable, independent ratings agency with the public good as its primary guiding factor. But both the ESRB and PEGI are private, industry run and funded ‘self-regulatory’ agencies that operate with the industries own self interests as its primary guiding factor.
If you search for “poker” on PEGI’s site, it seems that many games which are actually about simulated gambling are rated 12 or 16. They seem to think Balatro is more likely to expose children to realistic gambling than, say, Prominence Poker or Pure Hold’em World Poker Championship, which seems completely bizarre, given that those games are about playing poker and Balatro is a fancy kind of solitaire with no betting.
The pathetic thing is games of the ilk of balatro and luck be a landlord (also OG peggle) are actually the kind of game that plays with your gambling impulses but in a healthy and fun way, these games should be celebrated for subverting the language of gambling to make something beautiful, how pathetic to have so little actual understanding of video games and yet have this kind of power to impact the industry.
I’ve always suspected I might be susceptible to gambling addiction so I stay out of casinos.
Instead, I go to the arcade. Which is like a low stakes child casino. Win a bunch of tickets and then either buy something stupid with them, or, just straight give them to some kid.
My point being, we’ve specifically constructed casino-like facilities for children and it’s regularly accepted, so why should Balatro be different?
I want to see someone take an actual slot machine rip out all the evil bits and replace it with a computer running Luck Be A Landlord with custom flashing lights for when you win, the slot machine lever and all that stuff.
You shouldn’t, you’ve already lost enough allies. It has become very clear that cripples and hall monitors does not a majority make. I don’t believe in your ethical maxims of sensitivity and strict language policing.
I’m sure you think the celebrated George Carlin is a massive cunt, in duller words.
You’ll never successfully change the world like this. This kind of language demonstrably does nothing for you. We all know you believe “the common clay” should shut up and speak through filters approved by you and yours. Fuck you.
You ruined the culture of the left. You changed it from the side of union men to the side of flamboyant, sensitive baristas. To the point that you lost a lot of the vote even from unionized workers.
Most people see it. Few, except the opposition, point to it as a negative.
Partly because they become the opposition by pointing to it. Anyone bothered by the change regardless of their standpoint of taxes, regulation, and public services are labeled right wing and pushed to admit it. They might as well go vote for the billionaires’ cause if they don’t want to shut up about their problems with sensitive liberals, right? Right. So it seems that’s exactly what they did.
People don’t like people who tell them to shut up, sit down, and behave.
People don’t like people who get so offended that they kick you out.
That becomes a problem when you treat the majority like that, and not just a minority of very misbehaved assholes.
Guess why “The One Joke” became so prolific? Some creatively gay progressives desperately wanted to push the majority to comply with a set of new very strange expectations and taboos, and went about it in an incredibly obnoxious, reckless way. It became a huge meme because a majority, not an extremist minority, thought it was weird, ridiculous, stupid, overconfident, pathetic, and probably a whole host of other things.
This game teaches - by way of images, information and gameplay - skills and knowledge that are used in poker. During gameplay, the player is rewarded with ‘chips’ for playing certain hands. The player is able to access a list of poker hand names. As the player hovers over these poker hands, the game explains what types of cards the player would need in order to play certain hands. As the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points. Because these are hands that exist in the real world, this knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life game of poker
So, this game teaches skills and knowledge that are used in poker. The skills in knowledge are limited to… playing and making poker hands. That’s it. Also, “as the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points” – is hilariously funny. The idea that knowledge of what a poker hand is is anything related to the dangers of gambling is ridiculous.
I know this is anecdotal but I’m now living in a ditch because of Balatro. I never gambled before in my life and all the poker knowledge Balatro me taught caused me to start extreme gambling and now I’m dead in a ditch.
As the game goes on, the poker hands also get increasingly unrealistic and different from real poker including things like five of a kind, and a pair being worth more than a royal flush.
If you tried to take the skills you learn from balatro to a poker table you would get kicked out basically immediately.
I’ve never gambled, but I’m pretty sure if I got 1.630e11 chips at a casino, something bad would happen to me, the casino, and the economy if I cashed it out. I think that’s 84 billion chips…
Times are different now, there’s no more turning up in a ditch. If you start winning too often, they’re gonna keep an eye on you and try to determine if you’re cheating. If you’re not, they’re gonna ask you to leave and ban you from the casino before you can actually win anything significant — the justification given is that it’s their casino and they can refuse entry to whoever they want. If you are cheating, then you’re just going to jail.
It’s really dumb if you know the two games (poker and Balatro).
Poker is a game of incomplete information where you need one single higher ranked hand than your opponent per round. The stakes are money you bet that your hand is better. Bluffing is an important part of the game.
Balatro is mostly a game with complete information (apart from the order of remaining cards in your deck and certain bosses that flip your cards). You bet no money. There is no bluffing. Money does not correlate to chips. It is about the rating of your hand (poker has no rating, only relative ranking). You play multiple hands. You can’t fold. Bluffing doesn’t exist. Cards can be improved, ratings can be improved, the decks can look nothing like poker decks, etc.
My thief archer build in Morrowind and Skyrim lead me to a life of thievery and now I’m serving a life sentence at maxium security prison. Very sound logic.
I wonder what they rated Pavlov VR, ya know the FPS game in VR that forces you to handle guns the way they would in real life and is popular with ex-military because of their transferrable skills?
Doesn’t matter to a kid with a phone and unlimited time and willpower. I know with 100% certainty, if I was 16 and wanted to play Balatro, I wouldn’t be talking to you, I’d have an .apk already.
Piracy being the only way to get a game isn’t beneficial to the dev, and Balatro is the kind of game that deserves our money. It could have easily been jammed to the gill with paid boosts premium decks, etc, but instead, they just made a good game.
Theoretically stores in Europe are forbidden from selling 18+ games to underage customers.
Practically, almost no one follows this. Although digital storefronts like Steam do, some parents do, and more importantly there could be age restrictions on Youtube and Twitch gameplays.
I just picked it up. I was going to wait for a better sale because I probably don’t have time to play it, but I’ll happily support them here, and I’ll probably play it with my kids.
Screw PEGI.
Edit: picked it up and it was a blast. My kids watched and now they want to pay too. Good game is good.
Dragon Quest 11 has a T-for-Teen rating and it’s got a literal casino built into the game. Roulette, poker, and slot machines. This isn’t even uncommon for JRPGs. Curious how the ratings agencies just glaze over this fact when assigning their scores.
This is the part I can’t figure out. It’s not just indie games: ages ago, Pokémon dropped the casinos from their games specifically to avoid having their age rating bumped in NA and EU. So clearly they sometimes account for gambling in side content. But somehow other franchises have kept them in, and aren’t suffering.
Does it just depend on whether or not the particular person assigned to review your game is a hardass about particular things?
They probably have some checklist which has vague definitions of “glamourising” gambling. I reckon this game unwittingly strays into the red tape in its presentation along with the poker theme (like I’ve said elsewhere it’s more a maths game than a poker game). The music and lights despite being atmospheric and ambient probably have some similarities to fruit machine like environments in the sense the music is repetitive and there is flashing visual feedback.
Edit: Should say it’s still B.S. to rate it 18. Just that I can imagine ratings boards can’t apply independent thought/logic.
i think it’s clear from this these regulatory bodies primarily function to help the industry make money. indies can sometimes get co-signs from these bodies, but only if they stay in their lane. balatro has been a huge smash hit, and it feels like this body just wants to keep it down that little bit
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One looks like gambling but is actually a fun roguelite card game, the other one looks like fun but is actually a gambling game. Guess which one is rated 18+?
spoiler
Okay I lied, FC24 doesn’t even look like fun, but that’s my personal opinion.
It’s entirely his fault for not being a multi-billion dollar company which actively invests in better ratings. In capitalism, there is no fairness - there is only money.
This reminds me of the documentary “This film is not yet rated”. The point was that the MPAA gives way more leniency to big budget studios when giving ratings. The net effect of this is it kills the low budget films before they can be released.
Yeah came here to echo the same sentiments. He isn’t establishment. Aka he has no voice. As money is speech in America.
While you’re not wrong, I doubt the Pan European Game Information ratings board cares that much about speech in America.
Right but America bad please clap
You’re confusing PEGI (the European games rating body) with ESRB (the American equivalent).
PEGI has ratings 3, 7, 12, 16, and 18, and it gave Balatro the highest rating of 18.
ESRB has ratings E, E10+, T, M, and A, and it gave Balatro the relatively low E10+ rating.
PEGI is European; the ESRB gave Balatro a E10+ for “gambling themes”
And that’s honestly exactly what I would expect. It’s not suitable for a 4yo, but there’s nothing in it to warrant a teen rating either. So yeah, E with a note sounds exactly right.
Sure if we were talking about a reasonable, independent ratings agency with the public good as its primary guiding factor. But both the ESRB and PEGI are private, industry run and funded ‘self-regulatory’ agencies that operate with the industries own self interests as its primary guiding factor.
deleted by creator
Hes no EA, but Balatro has made him a multimillionaire.
He needs to use some of that money to sue, maybe get the orgs that are fighting gambling/microtransactions onboard.
Lol, I love how even the good Americans are still so into US Defaultism and can’t comprehend that other countries exist.
If you search for “poker” on PEGI’s site, it seems that many games which are actually about simulated gambling are rated 12 or 16. They seem to think Balatro is more likely to expose children to realistic gambling than, say, Prominence Poker or Pure Hold’em World Poker Championship, which seems completely bizarre, given that those games are about playing poker and Balatro is a fancy kind of solitaire with no betting.
The pathetic thing is games of the ilk of balatro and luck be a landlord (also OG peggle) are actually the kind of game that plays with your gambling impulses but in a healthy and fun way, these games should be celebrated for subverting the language of gambling to make something beautiful, how pathetic to have so little actual understanding of video games and yet have this kind of power to impact the industry.
I’ve always suspected I might be susceptible to gambling addiction so I stay out of casinos.
Instead, I go to the arcade. Which is like a low stakes child casino. Win a bunch of tickets and then either buy something stupid with them, or, just straight give them to some kid.
My point being, we’ve specifically constructed casino-like facilities for children and it’s regularly accepted, so why should Balatro be different?
Gambling at an arcade is exactly the same. All you’ve done is lower the stakes so hopefully it couldn’t affect you.
There’s a scam to steal money from kids in pretty much every grocery store near where I live. We call them claw machines.
Yeah how dare you pay $9.99 one time to gamble all you want! If you’re gonna get those dopamine hits, you better be spending real money at the tables!
First time I’ve seen someone mention Luck be a Landlord. Really fun game.
I want to see someone take an actual slot machine rip out all the evil bits and replace it with a computer running Luck Be A Landlord with custom flashing lights for when you win, the slot machine lever and all that stuff.
It would be pretty awesome
The thing you have to understand about PEGI is that they are mentally challenged.
Please don’t use folk’s medical condition as an insult.
You’d have to shut me up and push me out.
You shouldn’t, you’ve already lost enough allies. It has become very clear that cripples and hall monitors does not a majority make. I don’t believe in your ethical maxims of sensitivity and strict language policing.
I’m sure you think the celebrated George Carlin is a massive cunt, in duller words.
Mate, they made a joke. Kinda like the ones the celebrated George Carlin made.
That was not a joke. That was a serious request.
Bro, they politely asked you not to use potentially hurtful language in an open forum.
Is that really how you react in the real world of someone says “I don’t like that, please stop?” Because that’s some abuser-coded behavior right there
You’ll never successfully change the world like this. This kind of language demonstrably does nothing for you. We all know you believe “the common clay” should shut up and speak through filters approved by you and yours. Fuck you.
You ruined the culture of the left. You changed it from the side of union men to the side of flamboyant, sensitive baristas. To the point that you lost a lot of the vote even from unionized workers.
Lose everything in the next 4 years.
Lol based
I know.
Most people see it. Few, except the opposition, point to it as a negative.
Partly because they become the opposition by pointing to it. Anyone bothered by the change regardless of their standpoint of taxes, regulation, and public services are labeled right wing and pushed to admit it. They might as well go vote for the billionaires’ cause if they don’t want to shut up about their problems with sensitive liberals, right? Right. So it seems that’s exactly what they did.
People don’t like people who tell them to shut up, sit down, and behave.
People don’t like people who get so offended that they kick you out.
That becomes a problem when you treat the majority like that, and not just a minority of very misbehaved assholes.
Guess why “The One Joke” became so prolific? Some creatively gay progressives desperately wanted to push the majority to comply with a set of new very strange expectations and taboos, and went about it in an incredibly obnoxious, reckless way. It became a huge meme because a majority, not an extremist minority, thought it was weird, ridiculous, stupid, overconfident, pathetic, and probably a whole host of other things.
Dude you realize English is not a static language right? You’re making an ass out of yourself.
Please stop pretending to be offended on other people’s behalf simply to draw attention to yourself
Y’all bots?
Wow, I rarely expect to find comments like this on Lemmy. Keep it up!
It’s clearly market manipulation.
The reasoning in question:
So, this game teaches skills and knowledge that are used in poker. The skills in knowledge are limited to… playing and making poker hands. That’s it. Also, “as the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points” – is hilariously funny. The idea that knowledge of what a poker hand is is anything related to the dangers of gambling is ridiculous.
One “teaches” you to gamble, the other allows you to gamble. And the one that just teaches you has a higher rating. Crazy.
Totally his fault for not heeding the ancient warning.
Give a man a fish, you get PEGI 3+. Teach a man to fish, 18+ you sucker.
I know this is anecdotal but I’m now living in a ditch because of Balatro. I never gambled before in my life and all the poker knowledge Balatro me taught caused me to start extreme gambling and now I’m dead in a ditch.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Can’t. I’m a little too dead for pics
have some passerby take the picutres, you dummdumm
Yup that checks out. Say hi to Betty White for me!
Ok, I’ll believe you this time…
As the game goes on, the poker hands also get increasingly unrealistic and different from real poker including things like five of a kind, and a pair being worth more than a royal flush.
If you tried to take the skills you learn from balatro to a poker table you would get kicked out basically immediately.
I’ve never gambled, but I’m pretty sure if I got 1.630e11 chips at a casino, something bad would happen to me, the casino, and the economy if I cashed it out. I think that’s 84 billion chips…
Times are different now, there’s no more turning up in a ditch. If you start winning too often, they’re gonna keep an eye on you and try to determine if you’re cheating. If you’re not, they’re gonna ask you to leave and ban you from the casino before you can actually win anything significant — the justification given is that it’s their casino and they can refuse entry to whoever they want. If you are cheating, then you’re just going to jail.
It’s 163 Billion chips.
1.630e11 is the same as 1.630 x 10^11
Which probably wouldn’t be that bad for the economy, but it might bankrupt the casino, depending on the value of the chips.
Whoops, off by a bit, lol
“Sir, you can’t bring stone slabs to the table and play them as if they were cards. Also, where did these glass shards come from?”
I place a torn up joker on the table, a tarot card, a llanowar elf card, and a pair of threes
“So with my score multiplier basically I own the casino.”
The dealer frantically calls security
“This is worth eighteen bazillion chips. Here is five dollars.”
“I’m sorry, the Llanowar Elves are banned, you should keep up with the meta” Activates the Pot of Greed and draw two.
I had a run where I legitimately had to stop and compare the point values a Two Pair Vs. One Pair Vs. Straight Flush
And ONE PAIR wound up being the one with the highest point value…
I was still 600 dollars short of winning against the Boss Blind, ending my run
It’s really dumb if you know the two games (poker and Balatro).
Poker is a game of incomplete information where you need one single higher ranked hand than your opponent per round. The stakes are money you bet that your hand is better. Bluffing is an important part of the game.
Balatro is mostly a game with complete information (apart from the order of remaining cards in your deck and certain bosses that flip your cards). You bet no money. There is no bluffing. Money does not correlate to chips. It is about the rating of your hand (poker has no rating, only relative ranking). You play multiple hands. You can’t fold. Bluffing doesn’t exist. Cards can be improved, ratings can be improved, the decks can look nothing like poker decks, etc.
My thief archer build in Morrowind and Skyrim lead me to a life of thievery and now I’m serving a life sentence at maxium security prison. Very sound logic.
I keep pulling the hermit card out of my tarot deck, but it hasn’t doubled my money! Have I learned incorrectly??
I wonder what they rated Pavlov VR, ya know the FPS game in VR that forces you to handle guns the way they would in real life and is popular with ex-military because of their transferrable skills?
I mean that would definitely get an 18 rating, I’m not sure what you are meaning to say
Did he try getting a friendly industry insider appointed to the regulatory body to “facilitate” ?
Doesn’t matter in the slightest.
me, age 12, San Andreas
18 is the highest rating. It’s equivalent to the ESRB “AO” rating, and many storefronts will not sell it, period.
Doesn’t matter to a kid with a phone and unlimited time and willpower. I know with 100% certainty, if I was 16 and wanted to play Balatro, I wouldn’t be talking to you, I’d have an .apk already.
Storefront? Lmao.
Piracy being the only way to get a game isn’t beneficial to the dev, and Balatro is the kind of game that deserves our money. It could have easily been jammed to the gill with paid boosts premium decks, etc, but instead, they just made a good game.
I went looking for a patreon or donation page… Guys who get hit with this should just go that route. He doesn’t have a general one up.
We can’t control the bullshit, but we can side-step it.
Tell me you are corrupted to the core, without telling me you are corrupted to the core.
I wish this trend would die out. Tell me your x without telling me your x is so fucking pretentious and annoying.
Tell me you’re on the internet too much without telling me you’re on the internet too much.
He’s JustAnIdiot. PlsIgnore.
What’s wrong with that ? The real world is faaaaar more insane
You and I are in the real world right now.
Pretentious though?
Pretentious - attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
Yes.
You and I have wildly different associations with this construct.
To me it sounds like silly phrasing. Just another version of “doth protest”
What does this mean practically? Are they not allowed to sell it some places anymore if it’s 18+?
Theoretically stores in Europe are forbidden from selling 18+ games to underage customers.
Practically, almost no one follows this. Although digital storefronts like Steam do, some parents do, and more importantly there could be age restrictions on Youtube and Twitch gameplays.
Maybe if they decide to make box copies of the game.
Guess I just have to buy Balatro harder then
I just picked it up. I was going to wait for a better sale because I probably don’t have time to play it, but I’ll happily support them here, and I’ll probably play it with my kids.
Screw PEGI.
Edit: picked it up and it was a blast. My kids watched and now they want to pay too. Good game is good.
Learning the names and ranking of poker hands is the devil!
Dragon Quest 11 has a T-for-Teen rating and it’s got a literal casino built into the game. Roulette, poker, and slot machines. This isn’t even uncommon for JRPGs. Curious how the ratings agencies just glaze over this fact when assigning their scores.
This is the part I can’t figure out. It’s not just indie games: ages ago, Pokémon dropped the casinos from their games specifically to avoid having their age rating bumped in NA and EU. So clearly they sometimes account for gambling in side content. But somehow other franchises have kept them in, and aren’t suffering.
Does it just depend on whether or not the particular person assigned to review your game is a hardass about particular things?
Just needs a good cover. Like Watership Down. Nice lil thing about bunnies.
They probably have some checklist which has vague definitions of “glamourising” gambling. I reckon this game unwittingly strays into the red tape in its presentation along with the poker theme (like I’ve said elsewhere it’s more a maths game than a poker game). The music and lights despite being atmospheric and ambient probably have some similarities to fruit machine like environments in the sense the music is repetitive and there is flashing visual feedback.
Edit: Should say it’s still B.S. to rate it 18. Just that I can imagine ratings boards can’t apply independent thought/logic.
Seems like an advertising opportunity. First solitaire game rated 18+ without any gambling, I assume no nudity, language, etc.
There’s actually lots of foul language while playing Balatro, but it all comes from the person playing, not the game itself.
Baltaro devs may need to invest in gambling to earn enough money to bribe PEGI the way EA almost certainly does.
What do you mean, almost? EA is literally a member of Video Games Europe, the organization which manages PEGI.
https://www.videogameseurope.eu/about/our-membership/
So, we’re moving on from bribery and straight to conflict of interest?
This is the case for both PEGI and ESRB, they are insider operated organizations developed to skirt regulations in the form of ‘self governance’.
Self-regulated organization my ass.
Well, they /are/ self regulated. Just not the way that anyone but them wants.
i think it’s clear from this these regulatory bodies primarily function to help the industry make money. indies can sometimes get co-signs from these bodies, but only if they stay in their lane. balatro has been a huge smash hit, and it feels like this body just wants to keep it down that little bit
Actual gambling - 3+
Suggestion of gambling - 18+
there are actual poker games that are rated lower than 18 too.
Clown world clown world
The queen of hearts is inherently obscene, that’s why my copy of Alice in Wonderland is rated 18+
IRL poker cards from the dollar store - !