Another article that highlighs inherent flaws in the American legal system. How can this potentially be an actual lawsuit? How can “journalists” even entertain reporting on this?
Honestly I’m just posting to laugh at my fellow lemmings responses and watch see how the plaintiff is roasted for not gitting gud.
But, there is a real conversation here around continued ignorance of game development and the value of difficult games as a value proposition. Afterall, the person attempting to sue from did choose to purchase the games willingly knowing they’re not for scrub casuals like themselves.
What do you all think, is difficulty gating content a real issue? Should dev’s have some kind of legal requirement to appease players that can spec a build properly? Is it Thursday and I’m just looking for some easy laughs at a morons expense?
Soulslike games only frustrate me immensely. I don’t mind a challenge, but when a game starts to feel more like work than hobby I’ll pass. So Elden Ring has never been on my wishlist, but I applaud those who have the motivation to git gud and persevere.
To each their own, research a bit before you buy something and accept that you might sometimes buy a game that doesn’t suit you. Mistakes and wrong decisions happen, that’s life.
Elden Ring is probabaly the easiest game that From Software (FS) has made.
I however don’t like the default multi-player design of FS games and waited for the Seamless Co-op mod to be released and then picked it up to play with friends as a tough open world MP adventure.
RE: Default MP Design -
I think it’s poor design to offer incentives for players to be anonymous assholes to other players. Game Studios have spent millions of dollars investing in research and technologies to reduce game community toxicity. And if you attempt to play a FS game outside the first month of release in MP mode, prepare to have your fun ruined.
Invasions aren’t toxic. You’re brute forcing a game balanced around solo play by abusing action economy and boss aggro. You can, at any time, start a boss and boot someone. Not to mention the overwhelming advantage you have over the invader should you choose to fight them.
This is a healthy attitude. The game offers “easy mode” in the sense that you can use tools like summons, magic, just plain old grinding until you’re massively levelled, and so on, but if you’re not enjoying it then there’s no point playing. It’s okay for a game to not be for everyone and good for people to recognise that it’s not for them.
I really enjoy the games but fuck me there’s no way I’ll ever be taking on Malenia. I could use summons and stuff, but what I actually like is the one-on-one dodging fights, so if I did I’d just be doing it to have done it. That’s fine. I just have to evaluate the game based on what I get from the rest of it
To beat Malenia I used the Fallingstar Beast Jaw gravity-lightning attack with Mimic Tear doing it too. It slows her down with lots of poise damage and it does high damage. I think I added a magic potion combo of the one that makes you have high equipment capacity (for light rolling) and the one that increases poise damage.
Fo real tho, difficulty in some games is more of an add on than a core mechanic. FromSoft weave difficulty into the narrative of their games in a way that is just so deliciously painful. More please.
It is a game that is difficult, made by a company that is widely known for making some of the highest difficulty games in gaming. And arguably, Elden Ring is their easiest game. This guy signed up for it. If he didn’t know, its his fault.
There is no lawsuit here, this gets thrown out instantly. FromSoftware makes games and they can make whatever they want. If people don’t want their games, then they won’t buy them.
The reason that they can be a lawsuit is you can sue for anything in the US, doesn’t mean that it has any merit to it, or the case will ever even be heard.
I do not always have time to “git gud” at a game. Sometimes I want to sit down and play a game for fun, not frustration. I might have played Elden Ring for more than an hour if it had an easier difficulty.
The question is, does the responsibility fall on you to choose games that fit your skill level or the developer to compromise their vision to accomodate a broader audience? Would we take the same stance with other art? I find a lot of Foreign Arthouse Films to be slow paced and unenjoyable. Should the writers and directors be required to make an alternate cut to accomodate my preferences?
Sometimes I want to sit down and play a game for fun, not frustration.
there are a lot of games that are fun AND easy…that said, if i’m really enjoying a game and get to a boss that causes more frustration than fun, and is going to consume more time than i’m willing to spend, then it’s cheese/godmode o’clock. done, dgaf. devs make the games they want, i play them the way i want. win-win
So your argument against playing for longer than an hour and getting good is playing less than two hours and refunding? You need to play the game for a few hours to understand the combat systems and the way that enemies react.
The first enemy is meant to destroy you. You skip him and find other things to do and come back later when you’ve leveled up. It’s an open world game.
So your argument against playing for longer than an hour and getting good is playing less than two hours and refunding? You need to play the game for a few hours to understand the combat systems and the way that enemies react.
and your argument to enjoy a game is to force yourself to play it longer than the return period is, therefore eliminating any chance of a refund?
well the reality is we do not have longer refund periods. so in the current state of affairs, yes, it is an argument for people to give up. Trying for 2 hours is at least one step better than not buying the game at all.
Dude, I just don’t like it. The game just wasn’t fun for me. The game’s not my cup of tea. It’s not a hard concept. Also, you kinda move the goal post a bit.
It’s okay for people to not want to take several hours to learn to play a videogame. I say this as someone who has taken the time and likes this game a lot
Oh absolutely it’s ok to not want to take several hours to learn to play a video game. But don’t say “i can’t get good at this video game” if you’ve only put in an hour or two. That makes little sense. Difficult things take time to get good at otherwise they would be easy things.
I mean, what if I don’t get good after two hours? Will you refund it? Or will I be stuck with a game I suck at that cost $50 or $60 (or however much that was)? Look, I never was good at gaming. Everything I play is on easy or normal. I’m glad most developers keep gamers like me in mind. And as far as I understand, being hard is part of what makes Elden Ring entertaining, which pretty much makes it the opposite for me.
And pretending that everyone is (or can be) as good as everyone else at everything does not make much sense.
Let them not like the game for gods sake, they are in their right to refund it, they are not complaining about the game, just saying that it’s not for them. I love it and have tons of hours played + spent reading the wiki but it’s not for everyone and it’s cool of they don’t like it.
I think you need to reread my comments. I don’t really care if someone likes the game or not. I only care if someone says they can’t get good at it when they put in less than the minimal effort. It makes me wonder if people like that gave up riding a bike since they couldn’t ride professional downhill racing tracks in the first hour of learning to ride.
I find my comment completely valid. That “minimal” effort is just entertainment gate keeping. If they don’t have it in them to spend that extra effort it’s their choice and if you want them to change, complaining about it is very backwards.
You could have suggested them to ignore the tree sentinel or Margit, hoever was their first enemy, you could have suggested the to explore the game and ignore hard enemies just like in skyrim we ignored trolls, bears or dragons until we levelled up… Idk, anything but “you didn’t even try how dare you say you don’t like it” wtf.
If someone in their adulthood gets berated for being demotivated by not being as good as their peers at swimming or riding a bike, telling them off will just shut them about the idea of trying.
You could have suggested them to ignore the tree sentinel or Margit, hoever was their first enemy, you could have suggested the to explore the game and ignore hard enemies just like in skyrim we ignored trolls, bears or dragons until we levelled up… Idk, anything but “you didn’t even try how dare you say you don’t like it” wtf.
The first enemy is meant to destroy you. You skip him and find other things to do and come back later when you’ve leveled up. It’s an open world game.
Seriously tho, it’s really stupid. Not every game is meant to be enjoyed by every gamer, just like how not every book will not be enjoyed by every reader. If the devs are fine with excluding a potential group of audience members by making their game very difficult, then they should be allowed to do that. Unfortunately, I get that it sucks for the people that don’t have the time or skills to ‘git gud’ at a game like Elden Ring and they may feel like they wasted their money on it. However, it’s not like you can demand a refund at the movie theater because a movie you saw was confusing, not funny, or just not something you like.
This is definitely just my opinion, but to me it seems like Elden Ring and Dark Souls 3 were both popular enough that most people that play video games should know FromSoftware’s reputation for making very difficult games. If you haven’t played one of their games before, you should know that it’s a gamble as to weather you can even finish the game. But, my view on this might be pretty skewed as most people I talk to play a lot of video games
You can’t really find out of you’ll get good enough to enjoy a soulslike without buying one and playing it for longer than the two hour refund period. For other products, you usually have something you can do about it or some way to try it first. You don’t need to buy a kayak to find out you don’t like kayaking as you can go for a kayaking lesson first and use the venue’s equipment. It’s understandable that people who hit a wall and can never get any enjoyment from a soulslike will be upset that it cost them just as much to find that out as it costs someone who’ll compete the game and have a great time.
Maybe it’s enough to just do the refund window based on progression rather than time.
There’s always the option to buy a cheaper game in the genre first, or to wait for a sale. You don’t have to start with the newest biggest title.
I don’t think that there’s a realistic way to measure a fair amount of progression in every game, and it could be hard as a consumer to keep track of the limit. It could work if the minimum limit is 2 hours, and a maximum can be set by devs/publishers, but it seems unlikely many would go for that…
It’s the oddest choice to sue FromSoftware because Elden Ring, a Souls-like which, is advertised to be a very difficult game. Personally, I stay away from Fromsoft games because of their difficulty, I play games for fun; any game that requires an extreme amount of skill right out off the bat is simply not it to me. I guess this person can waste their money doing whatever they’d like; I don’t see them having any hope of winning this frivolous lawsuit.
It’s not even that hard. I seriously was bracing for some ridiculous bullshit based on the response but I haven’t struggled at all through it. Sometimes I do hit a hard boss and explore to come back later, but nothing insurmountable. I still have yet to finish but Sekiro still makes this games seem like a walk in the park. Hell, all the Dark souls games are far harder too.
Given its open world nature, I would bet the difficulty of the game varies greatly depending on where someone randomly decides to explore.
And, any repeat attempts won’t reveal much because on a second go the player will have experience with systems that will keep them safe or at least better conditioned around their losses.
I guess that’s the thing really, is all you gotta do is recognize you can go somewhere else. Come back and practice the hard part occasionally. Go find more scadu fragments, new weapons, spells, tools, experiment a little. Hell if you really need go respec and make a focused build. Or summon people to help you. There’s so many options, I hit some hard stuff but it never felt like a brick wall.
This once again tires back in with patience and recognizing which parts are hard by comparison.
“Time to try Elden Ring! Hm. This first area I’ve spent 20 minutes in is too hard. I’ll go somewhere else. Actually, this other area I spent half an hour in is also too hard. I’ll go somewhere else. Hmm…actually…”
Not to mention, understanding the stat systems enough to respec can be hard itself. And, summoning people to help you often means you’re not learning or engaging with the game mechanics yourself (or, getting slaughtered by invaders - patience again)
There’s genuine reasons why those things as a form of difficulty adaptation do not work well for everyone. People get an inconsistent and unreadable experience, and conclude simply “The game is too hard.” Often, that statement is made with incomplete information, but that’s what they’ve got from trying to learn it themselves. Obviously, if you look up walkthroughs it’s boringly easy and has no sense of discovery.
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Soulslike games only frustrate me immensely. I don’t mind a challenge, but when a game starts to feel more like work than hobby I’ll pass. So Elden Ring has never been on my wishlist, but I applaud those who have the motivation to git gud and persevere.
To each their own, research a bit before you buy something and accept that you might sometimes buy a game that doesn’t suit you. Mistakes and wrong decisions happen, that’s life.
Elden Ring is probabaly the easiest game that From Software (FS) has made.
I however don’t like the default multi-player design of FS games and waited for the Seamless Co-op mod to be released and then picked it up to play with friends as a tough open world MP adventure.
RE: Default MP Design -
I think it’s poor design to offer incentives for players to be anonymous assholes to other players. Game Studios have spent millions of dollars investing in research and technologies to reduce game community toxicity. And if you attempt to play a FS game outside the first month of release in MP mode, prepare to have your fun ruined.
Invasions aren’t toxic. You’re brute forcing a game balanced around solo play by abusing action economy and boss aggro. You can, at any time, start a boss and boot someone. Not to mention the overwhelming advantage you have over the invader should you choose to fight them.
It could, literally, not be more in your control.
This is a healthy attitude. The game offers “easy mode” in the sense that you can use tools like summons, magic, just plain old grinding until you’re massively levelled, and so on, but if you’re not enjoying it then there’s no point playing. It’s okay for a game to not be for everyone and good for people to recognise that it’s not for them.
I really enjoy the games but fuck me there’s no way I’ll ever be taking on Malenia. I could use summons and stuff, but what I actually like is the one-on-one dodging fights, so if I did I’d just be doing it to have done it. That’s fine. I just have to evaluate the game based on what I get from the rest of it
To beat Malenia I used the Fallingstar Beast Jaw gravity-lightning attack with Mimic Tear doing it too. It slows her down with lots of poise damage and it does high damage. I think I added a magic potion combo of the one that makes you have high equipment capacity (for light rolling) and the one that increases poise damage.
Very Onionesque.
Fo real tho, difficulty in some games is more of an add on than a core mechanic. FromSoft weave difficulty into the narrative of their games in a way that is just so deliciously painful. More please.
You can file a lawsuit about just about anything. It doesn’t mean it’s going anywhere.
Who is it, QuantumTV?
It is a game that is difficult, made by a company that is widely known for making some of the highest difficulty games in gaming. And arguably, Elden Ring is their easiest game. This guy signed up for it. If he didn’t know, its his fault.
There is no lawsuit here, this gets thrown out instantly. FromSoftware makes games and they can make whatever they want. If people don’t want their games, then they won’t buy them.
If you doubt this, go start a new play through on Dark Souls II.
Fume Knight says hi. At the end I near perfected him but damn that took me a long time. Orphan of kos is a never again situation for me though.
Before the DLC I might have agreed with you.
DLC included, ER is significantly harder than DSII
Not that this is a bad thing
Somehow I had a way harder time with Elden Ring than Dark Souls 1 or 2, but difficulty is a bit subjective.
I have given dark souls II more chances then any other in the series. And man from was more then a little assholish there. Iron keep can kiss my ass
Literally the biggest casul to ever exist
I’ll get the popcorn…
The reason that they can be a lawsuit is you can sue for anything in the US, doesn’t mean that it has any merit to it, or the case will ever even be heard.
Where article? Am I stupid?
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I do not always have time to “git gud” at a game. Sometimes I want to sit down and play a game for fun, not frustration. I might have played Elden Ring for more than an hour if it had an easier difficulty.
Wemod is how I do it.
The question is, does the responsibility fall on you to choose games that fit your skill level or the developer to compromise their vision to accomodate a broader audience? Would we take the same stance with other art? I find a lot of Foreign Arthouse Films to be slow paced and unenjoyable. Should the writers and directors be required to make an alternate cut to accomodate my preferences?
Many games, have varying difficulty levels. AFAIK movies have never had anything like that.
I have also seen cuts of movies that were horrible, and then an alternative cut is released that is leaps and bounds better.
Try watching Primer.
To be fair they’re still right to say that there are no difficulty settings on that film, it’s just set at fuck you difficulty from the beginning
This is true.
I’ve played it for over 500. It’s easier than the Dark Souls games.
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In other news, Florida Man sues because space flight is hard, it should be as ready as opening a beer.
it’s almost as if not every game is made for everyone
You know I could have played Euro Truck simulator for more than an hour if it had been an online pay-to-win MOBA.
there are a lot of games that are fun AND easy…that said, if i’m really enjoying a game and get to a boss that causes more frustration than fun, and is going to consume more time than i’m willing to spend, then it’s cheese/godmode o’clock. done, dgaf. devs make the games they want, i play them the way i want. win-win
If you had played it longer than an hour you probably would have gotten good.
Or they wouldn’t. I tried, died with the first enemy every time, refunded the game. Not everyone can “git gud”.
So your argument against playing for longer than an hour and getting good is playing less than two hours and refunding? You need to play the game for a few hours to understand the combat systems and the way that enemies react.
The first enemy is meant to destroy you. You skip him and find other things to do and come back later when you’ve leveled up. It’s an open world game.
and your argument to enjoy a game is to force yourself to play it longer than the return period is, therefore eliminating any chance of a refund?
That’s an argument for longer refund periods. Not for people giving up before they’ve tried.
well the reality is we do not have longer refund periods. so in the current state of affairs, yes, it is an argument for people to give up. Trying for 2 hours is at least one step better than not buying the game at all.
Dude, I just don’t like it. The game just wasn’t fun for me. The game’s not my cup of tea. It’s not a hard concept. Also, you kinda move the goal post a bit.
It’s okay for people to not want to take several hours to learn to play a videogame. I say this as someone who has taken the time and likes this game a lot
Oh absolutely it’s ok to not want to take several hours to learn to play a video game. But don’t say “i can’t get good at this video game” if you’ve only put in an hour or two. That makes little sense. Difficult things take time to get good at otherwise they would be easy things.
I mean, what if I don’t get good after two hours? Will you refund it? Or will I be stuck with a game I suck at that cost $50 or $60 (or however much that was)? Look, I never was good at gaming. Everything I play is on easy or normal. I’m glad most developers keep gamers like me in mind. And as far as I understand, being hard is part of what makes Elden Ring entertaining, which pretty much makes it the opposite for me.
And pretending that everyone is (or can be) as good as everyone else at everything does not make much sense.
Let them not like the game for gods sake, they are in their right to refund it, they are not complaining about the game, just saying that it’s not for them. I love it and have tons of hours played + spent reading the wiki but it’s not for everyone and it’s cool of they don’t like it.
I think you need to reread my comments. I don’t really care if someone likes the game or not. I only care if someone says they can’t get good at it when they put in less than the minimal effort. It makes me wonder if people like that gave up riding a bike since they couldn’t ride professional downhill racing tracks in the first hour of learning to ride.
I find my comment completely valid. That “minimal” effort is just entertainment gate keeping. If they don’t have it in them to spend that extra effort it’s their choice and if you want them to change, complaining about it is very backwards.
You could have suggested them to ignore the tree sentinel or Margit, hoever was their first enemy, you could have suggested the to explore the game and ignore hard enemies just like in skyrim we ignored trolls, bears or dragons until we levelled up… Idk, anything but “you didn’t even try how dare you say you don’t like it” wtf.
If someone in their adulthood gets berated for being demotivated by not being as good as their peers at swimming or riding a bike, telling them off will just shut them about the idea of trying.
You mean where I do exactly that?
You can file a suit against anyone for any reason. Garbage ones get thrown out pretty quick.
Absolute maidenless behavior.
Seriously tho, it’s really stupid. Not every game is meant to be enjoyed by every gamer, just like how not every book will not be enjoyed by every reader. If the devs are fine with excluding a potential group of audience members by making their game very difficult, then they should be allowed to do that. Unfortunately, I get that it sucks for the people that don’t have the time or skills to ‘git gud’ at a game like Elden Ring and they may feel like they wasted their money on it. However, it’s not like you can demand a refund at the movie theater because a movie you saw was confusing, not funny, or just not something you like.
This is definitely just my opinion, but to me it seems like Elden Ring and Dark Souls 3 were both popular enough that most people that play video games should know FromSoftware’s reputation for making very difficult games. If you haven’t played one of their games before, you should know that it’s a gamble as to weather you can even finish the game. But, my view on this might be pretty skewed as most people I talk to play a lot of video games
You can’t really find out of you’ll get good enough to enjoy a soulslike without buying one and playing it for longer than the two hour refund period. For other products, you usually have something you can do about it or some way to try it first. You don’t need to buy a kayak to find out you don’t like kayaking as you can go for a kayaking lesson first and use the venue’s equipment. It’s understandable that people who hit a wall and can never get any enjoyment from a soulslike will be upset that it cost them just as much to find that out as it costs someone who’ll compete the game and have a great time.
Maybe it’s enough to just do the refund window based on progression rather than time.
There’s always the option to buy a cheaper game in the genre first, or to wait for a sale. You don’t have to start with the newest biggest title.
I don’t think that there’s a realistic way to measure a fair amount of progression in every game, and it could be hard as a consumer to keep track of the limit. It could work if the minimum limit is 2 hours, and a maximum can be set by devs/publishers, but it seems unlikely many would go for that…
It’s the oddest choice to sue FromSoftware because Elden Ring, a Souls-like which, is advertised to be a very difficult game. Personally, I stay away from Fromsoft games because of their difficulty, I play games for fun; any game that requires an extreme amount of skill right out off the bat is simply not it to me. I guess this person can waste their money doing whatever they’d like; I don’t see them having any hope of winning this frivolous lawsuit.
It’s not even that hard. I seriously was bracing for some ridiculous bullshit based on the response but I haven’t struggled at all through it. Sometimes I do hit a hard boss and explore to come back later, but nothing insurmountable. I still have yet to finish but Sekiro still makes this games seem like a walk in the park. Hell, all the Dark souls games are far harder too.
Given its open world nature, I would bet the difficulty of the game varies greatly depending on where someone randomly decides to explore.
And, any repeat attempts won’t reveal much because on a second go the player will have experience with systems that will keep them safe or at least better conditioned around their losses.
I guess that’s the thing really, is all you gotta do is recognize you can go somewhere else. Come back and practice the hard part occasionally. Go find more scadu fragments, new weapons, spells, tools, experiment a little. Hell if you really need go respec and make a focused build. Or summon people to help you. There’s so many options, I hit some hard stuff but it never felt like a brick wall.
This once again tires back in with patience and recognizing which parts are hard by comparison.
“Time to try Elden Ring! Hm. This first area I’ve spent 20 minutes in is too hard. I’ll go somewhere else. Actually, this other area I spent half an hour in is also too hard. I’ll go somewhere else. Hmm…actually…”
Not to mention, understanding the stat systems enough to respec can be hard itself. And, summoning people to help you often means you’re not learning or engaging with the game mechanics yourself (or, getting slaughtered by invaders - patience again)
There’s genuine reasons why those things as a form of difficulty adaptation do not work well for everyone. People get an inconsistent and unreadable experience, and conclude simply “The game is too hard.” Often, that statement is made with incomplete information, but that’s what they’ve got from trying to learn it themselves. Obviously, if you look up walkthroughs it’s boringly easy and has no sense of discovery.