Every year, Time Magazine issues a list of the 200 best inventions of the past 12 months. Frankly, I don’t know how the editors do it. The dirty secret of
It did change on thing for me: it made me drop support for Oculus in my game dev project.
I still own an Oculus DevKit 2. But after wildly succeeding with his Kickstarter, the founder has done nothing but jerk moves. First he silently dropped Linux support, then he funded a pro-Trump troll army on Reddit and finally he sold his entire VR company to Facebook/Meta, which then did its own jerk move by rendering everyone’s hardware useless if they didn’t sign up to Facebook/Meta. My Oculus account was forcefully obliterated just a week ago.
What a complete nosedive that was.
They had the nicer tech (Oculus uses infrared LEDs around the headset that are filmed by special cameras to track your orientation, i.e. it’s steady state – HTC Vive / Valve Index have light-sensing diodes on the headset itself and their lighthouses swipe light curtains horizontally and vertically through the room, with an annoying whining noise and all the wear & tear from constantly rotating parts), for a while, Meta even had John Carmack polishing the system.
I still hope VR will not completely die. Half Life: Alyx was fun, some archery, zombie shooting and climbing games were highly enjoyable and I could well imagine getting into sculpting / 3D modelling that way if only the tools were better.
But if, as the HTC exec in the article says, Meta has defined the “market perception of what this technology should cost” (and they’re producing at a loss, too), then Meta has walled off most of the VR market to Facebook boomers (sorry, Meta boomers) and is hogging the more robust tracking tech for itself, too.
vr glasses also have controller buttons dont they. If the implied activity would give men carpal tunnel though I think we would all be miserable by now
They do; but you’re not crunching down the carpal tunnel with how they’re used. Your wrist is unimpeded and doesn’t have to be straight forward in front of you at all times, like a keyboard and mouse at a desk. Controllers themselves don’t cause carpal tunnel; it’s how you hold and move your wrists around. In fact, controllers can help alleviate carpal tunnel because you can use them in a variety of comfortable ways. You also don’t need them at all with some HMDs. The Vision Pro is all hand control, no buttons.
The motion sickness thing is totally real though. I’ve used VR for two years and I still sometimes have to stop and dry heave.
Facebook (or Meta) sends me threatening emails every week about my Oculus account being deleted if I don’t bow down to Zuckerberg and link my Facebook account to it.
Yeah, I’ve been debating getting one, but it’s a bit expensive for how much I’d actually use it (like once/month or so). I’m happy to throw $500 at a toy, but not $1k+.
I got a cv1 before Facebook bought them. It’s been downhill from there. Not to mention the lack of linux support which forced me to keep a windows partition just for it.
It’s in storage now, I don’t know if I’ll be able to reinstall it when I put my machine back together in a few months.
All in all it’s was a fine piece of kit killed by, I’m not even sure, greed probably.
Vive would be OK if you’re on a budget, you could probably get good deals on used stuff but if you wanted something new, it might be a good idea to wait a bit to see what Valve does.
Doubtful, while facebook does have a huge segment of the VR market, they’re not the only relevant player, so dont have the ability to entirely control it, and while I’ll certainly not be buying any headset of theirs given their extreme lack of trustworthiness even for a tech company, they have played a pretty big role in improving the tech and bringing the costs down a bit. I think some people just expected the tech to go from “blurry 3-d monitor strapped to your face” to “indistinguishable from reality the way its shown in fiction” in short order and have taken the gradual refinement of the tech instead of rapid leap as a sign that the technology has failed or something.
I mean, the acquisition did change VR from being a pretty open standard to being a walled garden where Facebook is paying devs to make their games not work with any other headset. I think without exclusivity there would be more interest in PCVR as a whole.
Despite the Facebook hate the Quest really did revolutionize VR. It made entry level VR at a great price with no hassle. The Quest was $500 and worked without needing beacons and a headset tethered to a gaming PC.
VR went from a few million users before Quest to tens of millions after.
This can’t be overstated. VR is one hell of an investment, and there’s not really any way to figure out if it’s something that works for you in advance. I enjoy it for the discounted price I got a Quest 2 at last holiday season, but I would have been disappointed if I had paid a higher price.
All my friends that got into VR all said the same thing when I asked them why they don’t play it more- it’s all packed away and setting everything up again is more of a hassle than it’s worth. The Quest really just made things dead simple- no wire, no lighthouses, use anywhere there’s a little bit of space.
honestly, I feel like something like Pico is more of a competitor to facebook/meta in the VR market, considering apple’s vr seems to be aimed at an entirely different part of the market, whereas pico makes hardware that is very similar in capability, use case and price to what meta puts out.
What Apple actually brought was visibility and a sign that maybe it’s not just for nerds anymore. Their headset doesn’t have to be worth buying to do that, it just has to be worth making. Most people that try an Apple Vision pro end up buying a Quest 3. But the Quest 3 is surprisingly awesome, especially when you compare the price points. And I think with a bit more time on the market, the Apple Vision pro will steadily gain usefulness. It’s mostly in a position of lacking software right now. They launched out of the gate in much better shape than any other companies first headset software-wise, but they had to of course, as they are playing catch up.
I do think they will catch up, and their second or third headset might be a real contender. Even though it can definitely be said that their first headset wasn’t a revolution, it still needed to be made. You can only make software for unreleased hardware for so long, eventually you need some hardware on the market.
I know we are on lemmy so corporations are bad and capitalism is bad and so on and so forth…
But there is not one aspect of my life that hasn’t been improved upon greatly by one or more tech companies over the course of my life.
There are new problems that I never would have expected to deal with that have come up as a side effect of this improvement, but it’s way too reductive to imply that tech companies haven’t changed the world for the better as well.
It’s a net sum to me. The harm they have done to our society and planet far outweigh and good that has come with it. Technology isn’t inherently evil but these tech companies that only care about profit at all cost are.
I tried the Oculus 2 and liked that it gave me a very physical way to game as opposed to sitting in a chair. Unfortunately the weight on my head and sweaty headpiece were ultimately a turnoff. The glasses style devices (XReal, Viture, etc) are a much better fit for me and mine has 3DOF motion tracking so it works as mouse view in most games without requiring VR support. It’s much lighter and I can wear them for hours without the strain and sweat. Newer glasses are coming with cameras for 6DOF, hand tracking and eye-tracking is not to far off as well.
These glasses are powered by a phone or a pc with USB DP alt mode. This gets the battery and processor off the head and makes for an un-tethered experience (with a phone).
This. Headsets are never going to take off. I’m somewhat surprised Apple launched the Vision Pro; I think Steve Jobs wouldn’t have settled for anything less than lightweight minimally invasive AR glasses.
They made VR headsets more people can afford that also don’t suck major balls like the PSVR or Google Cardboard (the other affordable VR options). People just don’t want them because they’re Facebook/Meta. 😔
Still can’t believe Tech companies don’t realise: If you want the widest adoption, make something as open source, customisable, editable, codable, and anonymous as you can.
If you don’t want something to be wide spread, demand everyone’s data, make it a black box you can’t edit, customise, or be creative on, and you have to link to all your other profiles.
Meta would have been best off had logins been entirely optional, and they’re still trying to life that bad reputation three generations later.
That said the quest is a great product, and I use mine every day to stay fit.
I’m not even sure just how closed off a system it even is. Most of the things I run on it were installed through ADB from GitHub and not any official sources. I have access to the root system files. What’s stopping someone who knows what they’re doing from making a custom OS for 'em so you don’t need to associate with Meta once you have the hardware in your hands?
After doing some Meta/Facebook VR development in my job the lack of popularity made increasingly more sense. In brief, they’re both incredibly incompetent and transparently greedy.
I’m honestly baffled how they could spend so many tens of billions of dollars and have such bad software, it is completely bug ridden. You’ll hit a bug, research it, and find out it’s a major know bug for literal years they haven’t fixed. They care so little that they couldn’t bother to update the Oculus branding to Meta for over 3 years in various software tools and libraries.
Their greed might be more salient aspect preventing adoption, though. They transparently wanted to be the gatekeepers to everything “metaverse” related, a business model that is now explicitly illegal in the EU after years of being merely very sketchy. They are straight up hostile to anyone else trying to implement enterprise or business features. Concrete example: fleet management software, aka MDM. There are third party tools that are cheaper and much more featured than Meta’s solution, but in the last year they’ve pushed hard to kick those third parties out of the ecosystem.
I could go on, but in short nobody in their right mind would build a major business on their ecosystem. They’d rather let Meta burn billions in R&D and come back later. Besides, not even Meta is able to make money in the area now.
I’m beginning to worry that FB’s meta shit has retarded VR’s development (slowed, not pejorative yo) significantly. The stigma of FB in the dev community is substantial and real, and tons of talent that I could recruit for PC driven VR projects (both training work and game stuff) who simply would not touch oculus hardware. It took dwindling job opportunities to drag me into quest dev. HTC had a fantastic opportunity to be a bigger name with the vive but dropped the ball so many times that devs I know kinda shrugged and moved on.
I was hoping that Apple would knock this out of the park. In fact, they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in so many ways it’s depressing.
VR will continue, this is not the end. Just a slowdown.
i hate facebook as much as the next person but the products definitely aren’t worse, I just figure that iteration on VR tech is really hard. The quest 2 and quest 3 are, genuinely, kind of incredible devices from a technological perspective, they’re just hamstrung by faceook. that’s bad but I don’t think it’s fair to say the products are specifically worse when oculus was acquired so early on
i know that, im not a child.
i’m talking about a particularly stupid word, not the evolution of language.
also, i don’t believe enshittjfication will stand the test of time, you jive turkey.
It’s just a wish. It’s a funny term and I like it, but not worth the effort of making a new account and subbing to all the same groups again. I’ve done it thrice already and it’s a pain in the ass. Maybe I’ll use it next time I sign up for something though.
lol, no rules… it’s just a stupid word that sounds stupid and makes anyone who uses it look stupid…
Shakespeare invented tons of words, and they were all great, inventing new words is great.
enshittification, in particular, is just lazy and dumb
p.s. love it when people do dumb shit and then defend the general category of what they’re doing as if that was the problem
depends on the context:
“exploitation”
“make it shitty”
“ruined”
“fucked it up”
if it was used way less, in non-pseudo-intellectual contexts, i wouldn’t care…
there is a term for companies buying companies and lowering the quality of the product while capitalizing on the brand reputation… i forget it though…
i mean, i barely care but people keep commenting on this so i feel like replying.
parentification is another one like that. just verbifying the noun and sticking “ification” on the end to have more syllables.
you could just write out, “children being forced into parenting roles” or something…
In large families, the eldest child has traditionally taken on more parent-like responsibilities… it’s not new and if it really needs it’s own word, it deserves a more thought out word structure than just:
“+ification and now let’s try to spread the word and get people to take me seriously!”
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It did change on thing for me: it made me drop support for Oculus in my game dev project.
I still own an Oculus DevKit 2. But after wildly succeeding with his Kickstarter, the founder has done nothing but jerk moves. First he silently dropped Linux support, then he funded a pro-Trump troll army on Reddit and finally he sold his entire VR company to Facebook/Meta, which then did its own jerk move by rendering everyone’s hardware useless if they didn’t sign up to Facebook/Meta. My Oculus account was forcefully obliterated just a week ago.
What a complete nosedive that was.
They had the nicer tech (Oculus uses infrared LEDs around the headset that are filmed by special cameras to track your orientation, i.e. it’s steady state – HTC Vive / Valve Index have light-sensing diodes on the headset itself and their lighthouses swipe light curtains horizontally and vertically through the room, with an annoying whining noise and all the wear & tear from constantly rotating parts), for a while, Meta even had John Carmack polishing the system.
I still hope VR will not completely die. Half Life: Alyx was fun, some archery, zombie shooting and climbing games were highly enjoyable and I could well imagine getting into sculpting / 3D modelling that way if only the tools were better.
But if, as the HTC exec in the article says, Meta has defined the “market perception of what this technology should cost” (and they’re producing at a loss, too), then Meta has walled off most of the VR market to Facebook boomers (sorry, Meta boomers) and is hogging the more robust tracking tech for itself, too.
they got trolled by motion sickness and carpal tunnel
If you got carpal tunnel using VR I need to ask: How the hell do you use your hands, man?
vr glasses also have controller buttons dont they. If the implied activity would give men carpal tunnel though I think we would all be miserable by now
They do; but you’re not crunching down the carpal tunnel with how they’re used. Your wrist is unimpeded and doesn’t have to be straight forward in front of you at all times, like a keyboard and mouse at a desk. Controllers themselves don’t cause carpal tunnel; it’s how you hold and move your wrists around. In fact, controllers can help alleviate carpal tunnel because you can use them in a variety of comfortable ways. You also don’t need them at all with some HMDs. The Vision Pro is all hand control, no buttons.
The motion sickness thing is totally real though. I’ve used VR for two years and I still sometimes have to stop and dry heave.
The only version I saw was Samsungs which had side roller wheel kind of buttons and the moment I saw it I was like “o-oh carpal tunnel”
It ruined Oculus, that was a change.
And that was 100% of the changes that were expected, not sure what this article is going on about.
The bright side? Shows how much we hate meta
Yup, I was about to but an Oculus Rift years ago, but once they were bought out by Facebook, I swore them off forever.
I’m still waiting for a decent, privacy respecting headset that’s not too expensive and works well on Linux.
Facebook (or Meta) sends me threatening emails every week about my Oculus account being deleted if I don’t bow down to Zuckerberg and link my Facebook account to it.
I havent touched either in years.
You can get 2/3 with the Valve Index, but I don’t think you’ll ever get all 3.
Yeah, I’ve been debating getting one, but it’s a bit expensive for how much I’d actually use it (like once/month or so). I’m happy to throw $500 at a toy, but not $1k+.
You should be able to but a used set in very good condition for that price.
Is there a valve index 2 on the way?
I would hate to finally get it only for the 2nd version to release a year or two after.
I was going to buy one, but when they got bought out it made the Vive an obvious choice for me. No regrets, it still works great.
I got a cv1 before Facebook bought them. It’s been downhill from there. Not to mention the lack of linux support which forced me to keep a windows partition just for it.
It’s in storage now, I don’t know if I’ll be able to reinstall it when I put my machine back together in a few months.
All in all it’s was a fine piece of kit killed by, I’m not even sure, greed probably.
I’ve heard good things, but they seem to be discontinued at this point and I’m worried about parts availability and whatnot if something breaks.
I’m casually looking at Valve Index. It seems Valve is looking into a successor, so I might wait a bit to see what that looks like. I’m in no hurry.
Vive would be OK if you’re on a budget, you could probably get good deals on used stuff but if you wanted something new, it might be a good idea to wait a bit to see what Valve does.
I love my index sooooo much
For all we know, that acquisition ruined VR.
Doubtful, while facebook does have a huge segment of the VR market, they’re not the only relevant player, so dont have the ability to entirely control it, and while I’ll certainly not be buying any headset of theirs given their extreme lack of trustworthiness even for a tech company, they have played a pretty big role in improving the tech and bringing the costs down a bit. I think some people just expected the tech to go from “blurry 3-d monitor strapped to your face” to “indistinguishable from reality the way its shown in fiction” in short order and have taken the gradual refinement of the tech instead of rapid leap as a sign that the technology has failed or something.
I mean, the acquisition did change VR from being a pretty open standard to being a walled garden where Facebook is paying devs to make their games not work with any other headset. I think without exclusivity there would be more interest in PCVR as a whole.
Waiting for Steam Deckard to pants meta in front of the class
Despite the Facebook hate the Quest really did revolutionize VR. It made entry level VR at a great price with no hassle. The Quest was $500 and worked without needing beacons and a headset tethered to a gaming PC.
VR went from a few million users before Quest to tens of millions after.
This can’t be overstated. VR is one hell of an investment, and there’s not really any way to figure out if it’s something that works for you in advance. I enjoy it for the discounted price I got a Quest 2 at last holiday season, but I would have been disappointed if I had paid a higher price.
How often does one actually use their Octopus?
All my friends that got into VR all said the same thing when I asked them why they don’t play it more- it’s all packed away and setting everything up again is more of a hassle than it’s worth. The Quest really just made things dead simple- no wire, no lighthouses, use anywhere there’s a little bit of space.
VR went from a few million users before Quest to tens of millions purchasers after.
No one uses these things
FIFY
Inside-out standalone HMDs were getting developed with or without Facebook. AMD’s “Sulon Q” was previewed in early 2016.
Apple is helping a lot, though.
How so? They’re shockingly late to this party.
There are few things that boost inspiration and innovation quite like a competent competitor.
honestly, I feel like something like Pico is more of a competitor to facebook/meta in the VR market, considering apple’s vr seems to be aimed at an entirely different part of the market, whereas pico makes hardware that is very similar in capability, use case and price to what meta puts out.
What Apple actually brought was visibility and a sign that maybe it’s not just for nerds anymore. Their headset doesn’t have to be worth buying to do that, it just has to be worth making. Most people that try an Apple Vision pro end up buying a Quest 3. But the Quest 3 is surprisingly awesome, especially when you compare the price points. And I think with a bit more time on the market, the Apple Vision pro will steadily gain usefulness. It’s mostly in a position of lacking software right now. They launched out of the gate in much better shape than any other companies first headset software-wise, but they had to of course, as they are playing catch up.
I do think they will catch up, and their second or third headset might be a real contender. Even though it can definitely be said that their first headset wasn’t a revolution, it still needed to be made. You can only make software for unreleased hardware for so long, eventually you need some hardware on the market.
Since when have any of these tech companies done anything but change the world for the worse?
I know we are on lemmy so corporations are bad and capitalism is bad and so on and so forth…
But there is not one aspect of my life that hasn’t been improved upon greatly by one or more tech companies over the course of my life.
There are new problems that I never would have expected to deal with that have come up as a side effect of this improvement, but it’s way too reductive to imply that tech companies haven’t changed the world for the better as well.
It’s a net sum to me. The harm they have done to our society and planet far outweigh and good that has come with it. Technology isn’t inherently evil but these tech companies that only care about profit at all cost are.
I got one. Your posture.
I tried the Oculus 2 and liked that it gave me a very physical way to game as opposed to sitting in a chair. Unfortunately the weight on my head and sweaty headpiece were ultimately a turnoff. The glasses style devices (XReal, Viture, etc) are a much better fit for me and mine has 3DOF motion tracking so it works as mouse view in most games without requiring VR support. It’s much lighter and I can wear them for hours without the strain and sweat. Newer glasses are coming with cameras for 6DOF, hand tracking and eye-tracking is not to far off as well.
These glasses are powered by a phone or a pc with USB DP alt mode. This gets the battery and processor off the head and makes for an un-tethered experience (with a phone).
This. Headsets are never going to take off. I’m somewhat surprised Apple launched the Vision Pro; I think Steve Jobs wouldn’t have settled for anything less than lightweight minimally invasive AR glasses.
I mean, it changed the world the way I expected- not at all.
They made VR headsets more people can afford that also don’t suck major balls like the PSVR or Google Cardboard (the other affordable VR options). People just don’t want them because they’re Facebook/Meta. 😔
Still can’t believe Tech companies don’t realise: If you want the widest adoption, make something as open source, customisable, editable, codable, and anonymous as you can.
If you don’t want something to be wide spread, demand everyone’s data, make it a black box you can’t edit, customise, or be creative on, and you have to link to all your other profiles.
Meta would have been best off had logins been entirely optional, and they’re still trying to life that bad reputation three generations later.
That said the quest is a great product, and I use mine every day to stay fit.
I’m not even sure just how closed off a system it even is. Most of the things I run on it were installed through ADB from GitHub and not any official sources. I have access to the root system files. What’s stopping someone who knows what they’re doing from making a custom OS for 'em so you don’t need to associate with Meta once you have the hardware in your hands?
It sure would. Just not yet
After doing some Meta/Facebook VR development in my job the lack of popularity made increasingly more sense. In brief, they’re both incredibly incompetent and transparently greedy.
I’m honestly baffled how they could spend so many tens of billions of dollars and have such bad software, it is completely bug ridden. You’ll hit a bug, research it, and find out it’s a major know bug for literal years they haven’t fixed. They care so little that they couldn’t bother to update the Oculus branding to Meta for over 3 years in various software tools and libraries.
Their greed might be more salient aspect preventing adoption, though. They transparently wanted to be the gatekeepers to everything “metaverse” related, a business model that is now explicitly illegal in the EU after years of being merely very sketchy. They are straight up hostile to anyone else trying to implement enterprise or business features. Concrete example: fleet management software, aka MDM. There are third party tools that are cheaper and much more featured than Meta’s solution, but in the last year they’ve pushed hard to kick those third parties out of the ecosystem.
I could go on, but in short nobody in their right mind would build a major business on their ecosystem. They’d rather let Meta burn billions in R&D and come back later. Besides, not even Meta is able to make money in the area now.
I’m beginning to worry that FB’s meta shit has retarded VR’s development (slowed, not pejorative yo) significantly. The stigma of FB in the dev community is substantial and real, and tons of talent that I could recruit for PC driven VR projects (both training work and game stuff) who simply would not touch oculus hardware. It took dwindling job opportunities to drag me into quest dev. HTC had a fantastic opportunity to be a bigger name with the vive but dropped the ball so many times that devs I know kinda shrugged and moved on.
I was hoping that Apple would knock this out of the park. In fact, they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in so many ways it’s depressing.
VR will continue, this is not the end. Just a slowdown.
What? Who tf expected that!? They bought Oculus, enshittification happened, and their products are worse now.
i hate facebook as much as the next person but the products definitely aren’t worse, I just figure that iteration on VR tech is really hard. The quest 2 and quest 3 are, genuinely, kind of incredible devices from a technological perspective, they’re just hamstrung by faceook. that’s bad but I don’t think it’s fair to say the products are specifically worse when oculus was acquired so early on
Facebook is the only reason I don’t already have one or two of these headsets right now.
IIRC the quest 2 is jailbroken, if you can get your hands on one secondhand might be worth looking around to see what your options are
“enshittification” is an enshittification of the english language
English teacher here. Languages change over time and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Feel free to speak with old english if thou very regard it matters. :)
i know that, im not a child.
i’m talking about a particularly stupid word, not the evolution of language.
also, i don’t believe enshittjfication will stand the test of time, you jive turkey.
I actually hope you’re right, because I believe it will only linger as long as there’s behavior taking place that it clearly defines.
I love this. I wish it was my account name.
make it your account name then
It’s just a wish. It’s a funny term and I like it, but not worth the effort of making a new account and subbing to all the same groups again. I’ve done it thrice already and it’s a pain in the ass. Maybe I’ll use it next time I sign up for something though.
Look at this old fucker yelling at clouds again.
Yeah, we’re a society. Things happen outside of grammar and word rules handed down to us from above…
lol, no rules… it’s just a stupid word that sounds stupid and makes anyone who uses it look stupid…
Shakespeare invented tons of words, and they were all great, inventing new words is great. enshittification, in particular, is just lazy and dumb
p.s. love it when people do dumb shit and then defend the general category of what they’re doing as if that was the problem
What you describe as the word’s flaws make it perfect though. The word itself is an icon for the actions it describes
that is a good point…
It’s main problem is that people overuse it massively and act like they’re saying something really clever by using it
🛎️ 🔔 🔔
yep. it’s like pseudo-intellectuals got too lazy to learn big words and use them incorrectly, so they just added syllables to “shitty”
Fair enough but what word do you use instead of enshittification? It filled a gap in the language.
depends on the context:
“exploitation”
“make it shitty”
“ruined”
“fucked it up”
if it was used way less, in non-pseudo-intellectual contexts, i wouldn’t care…
there is a term for companies buying companies and lowering the quality of the product while capitalizing on the brand reputation… i forget it though…
i mean, i barely care but people keep commenting on this so i feel like replying.
parentification is another one like that. just verbifying the noun and sticking “ification” on the end to have more syllables.
you could just write out, “children being forced into parenting roles” or something…
In large families, the eldest child has traditionally taken on more parent-like responsibilities… it’s not new and if it really needs it’s own word, it deserves a more thought out word structure than just:
“+ification and now let’s try to spread the word and get people to take me seriously!”
Before I reply I just wanna say I’m not trying to fight or argue I’m just quite interested in language.
All your context-dependent examples are verbs, whereas “enshitification” is a noun - a state of being. That’s why it fills a gap in English.
Otherwise you need an entire sentence to describe that process A happened to B thing and the result is C state.
It doesn’t seem intellectual at all to me, I mean it has the word shit in it and its closest contender for meaning is probably “fuckedupness”.
meh
Why, in objective terms, is it lazy and dumb? Or do you just not like it?
Plenty of useful and appropriate words are used by people in dumb ways, that does not make the words themselves dumb.
i’ve already talked about it more than i care about it
“I have an irrational dislike of it and can’t defend my opinion with facts.”
“i feel personally injured by someone else not liking something that i like, so i will harass and berate them for saying so”
I expected it would lead to worse services, worse support, and worse privacy.