Some things in the game definitely piss me off. But I avoid ranting about it because then the game would only be about the bad parts. It can still be a lot of fun if you take it slowly.
Big tip for boss fights: turn off the music and it becomes 10x easier. For me the music is way too overdramatic and distracting during a boss fight.
Also it does really get easier when you have more movement abilities.
Sure, but like. Be a human for a second. I want to play Dark Souls. I enjoy the gameplay and I find the story deeply fascinating, literally the only part I have trouble with is the bosses. You get why it’s frustrating to me that I’m not able to play this game that I actually do enjoy, right? I don’t just want an easy mode for the sake of there being an easy mode, I want an easy mode so that this game that I like can actually be accessible to me
Silksong makes me want to cry sad tears of defeat.
It’s so melancholy and difficult sometimes. Yeah, there’s the whole ‘get good’ argument, but there’s a lot of arguably unnecessary tedium involved that starts to feel like difficulty just for the sake of being difficult and nothing else. That’s definitely been a bit of a detractor for me, as well as a lot of others it seems.
The high points of the game are very good. The low points ruin it, in my opinion. I get that frustration might be fun for some people, but I find it discouraging and I don’t feel like Silksong wants me to be successful. It feels like it wants me to feel frustrated and angry, and that’s not an experience I want to have. I doubt I’ll finish the game, which sucks, because I loved Hollow Knight, and I love the parts of Silksong that aren’t just making me mad.
It really wouldn’t take much. Just some accessibility options to address some of the most punishing mechanics would do it. Would be great if mods solved this.
Several Soulslikes I’ve played have hidden in accessibility options things like not hitting you for falling into a pit, or not taking resources when you die.
I had a fantastic moment with this in Another Crab’s Treasure; I was doing some platforming when Krill glitched off the geometry and fell, killing me in the process. When I respawned, I knew I had tons of microplastics (souls) out there I wanted to save, but also felt frustrated because it wasn’t my fault I died - just bad game coding, as many games have. Plus, the odd positioning meant I might not be able to reach the death spot.
Instead, I just went to Accessibility and recovered them that one time; the game was nice enough not to even invalidate any achievements from the brief use.
I’ve played 7+ total hours and I’ve only managed to get Greenpath and Forgotten Crossroads. The fact that my ghost can (and has, many times) kill me is infuriating. How am I supposed to progress if after 30 minutes I want to throw my controller at the wall?
The problem is not the game… its getting mad. You’re supposed to be having fun. If you’re not having fun you’re doing it wrong. Either enjoy overcoming challenges or find something else to do.
I think the point at which I decided I hated Symphony of the Night was when I could go a whole session without finding anything new, or learning anything. The map is just so wide, with no clues as to where you can next explore.
Seriously. I love Hollow Knight and what I have played from Silksong thus far, but this elitist “game must be ultra hard and exclude people that can’t do it” shit is and always has been a garbage take as far as I am concerned. Having some sort of option to allow people that aren’t that good or have accessibility issues enjoy the game seems like a fine thing. Having those be optional should in no way prevent people that like the hard default settings from enjoying the game. Maybe have those options disable getting achievements/trophies if it prevents these elitists from enjoying the game knowing that their “lessers” are also able to enjoy the game.
Nine Sols did this perfectly. It’s another very hard metroidvania, but it has some options you can enable if you want to that adjust the difficulty in a variety of very tangible ways. I wish that was standard.
Nine Sols is great, and I agree completely that they did a good job of adding those options. I didn’t end up using them, but I bet it let a lot of people enjoy the game that could have hit a wall in Hollow Knight or people that just couldn’t grasp the parrying mechanic.
And the idea that every game should be for everyone is the reason why Elden Ring is… kind of a bad game.
Great open world, beautiful scenery… bad boss design, which yes — that is the game.
Like, think about this in the real world setting. Think about how this hyopthetical would play out, person becomes disabled and has to sit in a wheelchair. Everyone agrees ‘it’s not fair that they can’t walk, no one should walk because this person can’t’. And then everyone sits in a wheelchair despite being perfectly abled.
Does that make sense to you? Because it doesn’t to me, I’m sorry if there are people who can’t beat these games — but damn, at some point you have to recognize life isn’t fair and just enjoy the shit you do enjoy. If being good at a video game isn’t important to you, ok that’s your prerogative. Do not play the hard video game. But this constant whining about difficulty settings and nerfs is just obnoxious.
I’m sorry that having an optional setting for people that aren’t as capable as so offensive to you. I also think most people would agree it would be pretty cool if we could fairly easy add an option for people in a wheelchair to get them walking. Clearly you’d rather they didn’t.
I think twitch drives this a lot. Streamers getting annoyed with the game they’re playing tend to do better on their vods and bring in more people. As a result, people become more and more tolerant to games that are just annoying.
Like I understand that some people enjoy the gameplay of soulslikes, but who enjoys run backs?
… I do? They’re like the most basic manifestation of mastery over a particular section meaningfully impacting my experience. Not only does getting good at a run back let me focus on learning the boss more, but it also increases my general mobility throughout the map as a whole and drastically improves how cool it feels to replay the game and just blow through previously challenging sections.
It’s right in the difficulty sweet spot for me despite not being as into games (at the age of 40) as I used to be generally. It’s like it was made for me!!
Once I switched from my steam deck to a platform where I got more than five frames and switched wireless controller surrounded by two separate wireless routers It became one of if not my favorite game but while I was playing with an unknown handicap I saw a bunch of unavoidable flaws that were not the fault of the player at least on the bell beast, there are instances that are impossible to escape like entirely impossible, you can avoid them and I did eventually beat it even with the handicap but the game definitely has flaws that the difficulty accentuates but the later upgrades and tools definitely eliminates most of them.
That’s entirely possible, that’s why I said “you can avoid them” if you don’t get in the far corner you never get in those situations but if you do you can get chain hit all the way to zero hp. You would have to be clairvoyant to see them coming which of course you can be by replaying the level so a hitless run is entirely possible but that doesn’t make my it fair or good game play.
Difficulty and fun are orthogonal, one doesn’t exclude the other. Look at something like Celeste, it gets brutally difficult in farewell but never feels unfair.
A difficult game should motivate the player to get better, and that can happen while still remaining a fun experience. Nine Sols has a difficult combat system, but the combat feels fluid and fast-paced. Learning how to parry an enemy’s attacks and get in counter hits feels amazing, also you get lots of meaningful upgrades and rewards from everywhere.
Meanwhile in silksong you have a character with insane horizontal movement, then you repeatedly get pushed through narrow vertical platforming sections with flying enemies above, spikes on the sides. Killing a bell guy by agonizingly hitting them 1 hit at a time before they dash away out of reach again is not a fun combat paradigm and doesn’t create the power fantasy Hollow Knight excelled at.
The boss fights and >!Mt.Fay!< are fantastic but exploring the map just feels frustrating, especially when 90% of zones don’t drop any rosaries.
Why drop rosaries when you get killed in 3 hits (for about all of act 1 at the very least) and come across a dozen enemies that bait and dodge every input you make and spike traps within a couple screens every time you die and you get killed a second time on your runback anyway
Not a lot of those in a 5 screen run back, I just need one more try to kill that boss anyway, I swear. Oh shit, it has another move shit he’s juggling 3 HP off me at once aaaand I’m dead again.
And that’s not counting the unexpected “oops you’re locked now, fight these 5 waves of enemies, also your coccoon is locked in that room too, good luck getting your shit back” on your way to anywhere. If that’s your first time playing the game, it takes a bit to pick up on how cruel the game is and to start thinking about how to handle that. I’m not talking about people who already know the game here. That’s not on me, no.
You should encounter an ambush or boss fight within the first hour of gameplay, which is within Steam’s refund window. If you don’t learn from it, well, sucks to suck. The tools are all there. If you’re slow at progressing because the game is too difficult, that’s a different complaint, which is valid as there should be difficulty settings.
Dying is part of the game. dying multiple times to a boss to learn their moveset is the intended gameplay loop. Having unexpected ambushes caught everyone by surprise the first time they went through it. Yet, once you do, it is up to you to learn that you can’t get your stuff back easily so you should be banking your beads and that 20 bead cost isn’t actually that bad as you probably first thought compared to losing everything.
Like, for this specific complaint, that’s entirely on you to figure out and adapt to the intended gameplay loop. How long that takes to figure out is up to your ability to learn and adapt.
Git gud or leave but no complaining allowed okay bud. No, the difficulty being too high is not a different complaint, it’s exactly what we’re talking about. The AI, the room setups and somehow every bug being placed exactly where you’re jumping, the runbacks, getting killed in 3 hits half of the time even though you have 5 HP, getting juggled to death into a spike trap or lava as soon as the first hit despite requiring 3 hits to die despite having 5 HP, getting hit when you’re healing and losing all of it, every single stupidest bug requiring at least 2 or 3 hits to kill and somehow up to 6 or 8 for the bigger ones when they all dodge everything and you have garbage range, anything that flies especially, constant pixel perfect coordination in your jumps, the need to be alert 100% of the time between environment traps and enemies and always have the perfect speedrun strat, on top of the resource management, this is all one complaint. It’s artificially way too hard and there is zero learning curve and no way to tune it down, and it would be less of a problem if you didn’t lose all the resources you were collecting for an hour of doing that loop. Take off some of those or loosen some positioning and it’s already much less stressful - literally any one mod is a big help already (no 2HP damage, respawn near your coccoon…) It’s ruthless, it allows zero second of paying a little less attention, it’s on purpose, and it is not the player’s fault for not running back to a string station that is not marked anywhere. This is not a healthy game to play, and it shouldn’t be justified by saying it’s for players who want to get very good at every single screen of it and no one else.
You want to buy Shakra’s map? Too bad, that room is empty now for some reason, and you have no idea where to find the map now, you don’t know Shakra comes back to the shop area and can be called with that ring, and since you HAVE NO MAP you don’t even know where to go at all anyway. Benches and bellways, same, you CAN’T GO BACK or safely rest and create a checkpoint until you have the funds to even unlock them, at which point getting your beads stringed becomes useless because you just spent them. See that mask shard and/or the simple key and you think it’d be nice to buy in your first couple hours? Your fault for not wanting to keep going back and forth between the docks and the shop to make a string, on top of going back and forth to the farming room for an hour at 5 to 15 beads per run in lava for the Deep Docks, so that’s 500 rosaries gone the second time in a row some stupid bug won’t get out of the way but also reads your every input to dodge every single time you even look at them. And even the first time you die, if you had no bench close by and no map, good luck even getting your coccoon back. What I’ve learned is to completely ignore those big stashes and strings of free rosaries because it’s all bait that you’ll lose in a minute and then permanently the next minute (that Greymoor bird house trap and Moorwing are NOT in the refund window). And learning that didn’t make the experience any better. That’s the difficulty problem we’re talking about, these are not two separate things, it’s literally the whole game. On its own, dying repeatedly is not such a big deal if all you have to do is redo that one jump or even that one series of 15 perfect jumps (fucking Karnak), other Metroidvanias do that too and they’re not awful. It’s everything around it and the permanent pressure.
This game’s trap is that people who played the newer Metroid or Prince of Persia think dying repeatedly in a lengthy, very hard bounce-and-dash maze is not a huge deal breaker even if this one ramps it up to “every screen is a constant challenge”, but they don’t know they should also have played Dark Souls and some other roguelikes first.
Every time I read about players bitching about difficulty, I wonder why they’re so persistent. Either git gud, or move on. There’s plenty of games out there to play instead.
I tried dark souls and realized that kinda game isn’t for me. Neither is getting over it, or anything like that. I just want to lean back and relax, and I don’t want to mess with tight timings and stuff like that. I just play puzzle games because of that, and I thoroughly enjoy it.
Why do they feel the need of forcing themselves through an experience they don’t enjoy? FOMO? Bragging rights? I really don’t get it.
I’m fine with the difficulty, but I’m sure a lot of players bought silksong without beating hollow Knight first, and I feel that the game is too hard for someone just getting into the genre. it’s unnecessary cruel to new players sometimes imo.
someone could enjoy most of the game but be turned away by some of the more frustrating parts, which in my opinion is kinda unfortunate. maybe they bought the game on release and now feel like they are stuck with a game that isn’t worth it.
Too much of Silksong’s difficulty is just numbers. Shitty peon enemies hit for two health because fuck you. Touching a boss while it’s stunned hits for two health because fuck you.
And then there’s the whole shard system, which straight-up doesn’t need to exist since it just makes you never engage with tools. Until you use them to nuke a boss in its final phase, of course, because the alternative is playing RNG roulette against the boss’s 3 adds (that each hit for two damage, naturally).
It’s a great game, but it definitely isn’t a perfect game.
They need to remove shards, tweak (lower) the power of tools, and adjust outgoing damage (ideally through armor-like upgrades you earn).
Oh, and crests were not the right call. We all just use the Reaper (unless we’re further exploiting tools with that other crest).
Shards are my biggest problem with the game atm. They upped the difficulty significantly, and added this system of tools to compensate, and then punish you for engaging with said tools. Boy I tell you there’s nothing I love more than grinding up to the maximum shard capacity, getting my ass fucked by a boss 30 times in a row, and then having to grind for another half an hour to build up my shards again
“So, gamer, what did you think about the campfire scene?”
“I didn’t get it at all. When they said Earl and his kid were dead and everyone started crying I had no idea who they were.”
“Huh? You don’t remember him? He was in the scene where you visit the city gate.”
“I haven’t been to the city gate yet.”
“…Really? I…oh shit.”
With all the interactivity games have, it’s very possible for someone’s session to just not hit the same emotional beats the devs planned out. True for an improperly gated story, as well as for a difficulty curve.
Shout out to all the homies that missed the Estus Flask in Dark Souls 2, and who learned nothing revelatory about exploration when they finally came back to it.
Holy shit did they do that on their first try? Or did they spend basically the entire time since it came out just grinding those exact levels to dial in as close to perfection as they can?
I think it’ll only be “too hard” the first play through. I got every achievement in HK, I’ll probably do the same with Silksong, which means eventually I’ll be able to beat every boss in order without dying in less than 10 hours. It’ll get easier to the point where I’m adding challenges to my game just to stay entertained.
Most of the complaints are limited to the early game. After act 1, I didn’t really struggle to the same level anymore. I had the masks and abilities I needed to navigate hard fights.
Some games are just supposed to be harder, it’s how they were designed. Developers shouldn’t have to come out and address anything. If it’s too hard for you, just refund it and move on to another game if you don’t have the patience to learn it.
Let me fill up the negative space in that comment…I want Silksong to be hard. I want to do things dozens of times before succeeding, I want to struggle then overcome
It’s all skill based. You get better, your character gives you more breathing room, but ultimately you have to learn and overcome each new challenge
And that feels amazing, it’s not for everyone but I don’t want a way to make it easier… It would cheapen the experience to even have the option
I’ve been stuck at last judge for hours. I perfected the runback and stage 1 and I feel I’m getting closer. Soon I’ll beat that oversized bug and get to the citadel and it will feel great!
Other people having the option to tailor the game to their skill level does nothing to your experience of the game. If other people having access cheapens the experience for you, you have issues.
This game isn’t made for them, it’s made for me. It’s the full package, it’s amazingly well balanced, and truly a lovingly crafted work of art
If you want to mod the game to make it easier, I have no problem with you, or people who use it
But I don’t want a win button in my wonderfully challenging game. I don’t want this to be ruined with temptation. That’s what would cheapen the experience
Just because the button exists doesn’t mean you have to use it. The game isn’t made for any one person, it is made for a variety of people with differing skill levels and physical capabilities. The existence of accessibility features does not cheapen your experience, if they do you have issues.
If you make every game for everyone, you make slop
I don’t care if you can enjoy it without putting the effort I put in. I just don’t want a way for myself to make it easier. That’s it.
Fuck off, this is a masterpiece and I love it so much I’ve developed a new callous on my thumb and had to take a day off. I’ve overcome every challenge, I’ve dealt with the frustration, and victory was all the sweeter for that.
I don’t care what you do or don’t enjoy, don’t fuck with my game. I don’t care if you watch a playthrough or mod the game so you can enjoy the story.
I’m not being elitist, I’m pissed because people are trying to ruin the masterfully crafted artistic vision of the best game I’ve played in years
Cool. So I guess people like me with neuropathy should fuck off so people like you can get a boost of perceived superiority because God forbid they put a slider for slowing game speed or other such settings so people like me with physical limitations can adjust the challenge to our capabilities.
The existence of OPTIONAL difficulty settings has nothing to do with your experience of the game. If you don’t opt into using them, your game experience is literally no different than if they didn’t exist at all.
Yes, you in fact are being elitist. The way other people are able to experience the game has NOTHING to do with your experience. Be proud of your experiences for what they are, not how they compare to others’ experiences.
No, you should have a button through the workshop where you can add mods to slow down the game, take less damage, or whatever else you want or need. Let people rebalance the whole damn game if they want, if that makes you enjoy the game I’m happy for you
It should made easier then it is right now with proper workshop integration so it can be done in just a couple clicks. I’d support calling for that
What I don’t want is for team cherry to be pressured to change the game. It’s amazing as is, it’s extremely well thought out in how it challenges you even as the difficulty people complain about prepares you for future challenges. But people who will never enjoy it for what it is instantly demand it be watered down
You think a speed slider is going to make this game accessible? That’s not how this game works. This game is impossible at every challenge until it isn’t. That is the game. It’s rhythm and reaction, if you can do it slow you can do it normally
If I didn’t have a friend who played smash with three fingers and his hip on a heavily modded controller, I wouldn’t have the instincts to be able to play this game. He kicked my ass every time, despite nerve palsy that left him with half of one working hand
This game is not for everyone. And I don’t mean because of abilities… I’m not that good of a gamer. This game is for people who don’t accept their limits
If you could die a hundred times and never lose any progress, Pharloom wouldn’t feel dangerous or unwelcoming.
This feeling you get when you’re running around an uncharted area is tied to the risk of being sent back, not the difficulty of the enemies in said area.
I mean, it’s a direct sequel to a difficult souls-like. It’s hard to have too much sympathy for anyone who didn’t play the first Hollow Knight but wanted to jump in on the sequel, since I think anyone who played the first HK should have a good idea on what Skong’s difficulty looks like.
I hope they don’t nerf anything else. I was grinding through Sister Sledge (or whatever the boss is called) and I’d nearly done it. Then patch 1 came out and I did it first time. I feel robbed of the achievement.
Tweaking the rosary economy is ok however there is a clear lore reason why it is less generous initially.
I have been pleading with my husband to do exactly this. But no, he will continue to bash his face off enemies until they die by some kind of miracle. He has 5 masks, does not use red tools (but uses the poison polyp in his one blue slot), does not pogo or hit enemies above him, not use running attacks, or heal in the air. Just straight on hit with nail while face tanking and ground heal. I am DREADING him somehow reaching Bilewater.
I absolutely KNOW he is not the only person playing like this, and suspish this is the main source of the difficulty discourse…
Cuphead shows you how much health you took off before dying, and lets you restart boss fights immediately and infinitely without needing to replenish any forms of ammo.
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Some things in the game definitely piss me off. But I avoid ranting about it because then the game would only be about the bad parts. It can still be a lot of fun if you take it slowly.
Big tip for boss fights: turn off the music and it becomes 10x easier. For me the music is way too overdramatic and distracting during a boss fight.
Also it does really get easier when you have more movement abilities.
I’ll repeat a comment I posted on another article.
It has been 14 years since Dark Souls and yet, the holy words still stand.
Git gud.
Everyone heard Hornet say git gud. If you say you didn’t, you either didn’t play HK or you’re a liar.
Silksong is the git gud game. It is the Bloodborne 2 we never got.
Edit: also it isn’t that hard.
she clearly say “get dah”, whatever that means
It’s been 14 years since Dark Souls and yet the holy rebuke still stands: I have a fucking job
then play other games. it’s okay for difficult games that require a lot of time investment to not be for you.
Sure, but like. Be a human for a second. I want to play Dark Souls. I enjoy the gameplay and I find the story deeply fascinating, literally the only part I have trouble with is the bosses. You get why it’s frustrating to me that I’m not able to play this game that I actually do enjoy, right? I don’t just want an easy mode for the sake of there being an easy mode, I want an easy mode so that this game that I like can actually be accessible to me
Kinda bad timing to say this considering Randy Pitchford said almost exactly the same thing about Borderlands 4. Same message with different words.
EDIT: That headline gives a very wrong impression of what they actually said, holy.
Silksong makes me want to cry sad tears of defeat.
It’s so melancholy and difficult sometimes. Yeah, there’s the whole ‘get good’ argument, but there’s a lot of arguably unnecessary tedium involved that starts to feel like difficulty just for the sake of being difficult and nothing else. That’s definitely been a bit of a detractor for me, as well as a lot of others it seems.
The clip I watched the character was going through some Lion King game esque jumping sequence and I immediately knew the game wasn’t for me.
That is fair. I don’t think people have been complaining about the platforming too much though, mostly the combat.
Me after beating
a specific boss
Savage Beastfly for the 2nd time
only to immediately lose all my rosaries in
hard location
Sinner’s Road
and then spending the next 3 hours barely failing to
complete hard wish quest
deliver the courier’s rasher on time
The high points of the game are very good. The low points ruin it, in my opinion. I get that frustration might be fun for some people, but I find it discouraging and I don’t feel like Silksong wants me to be successful. It feels like it wants me to feel frustrated and angry, and that’s not an experience I want to have. I doubt I’ll finish the game, which sucks, because I loved Hollow Knight, and I love the parts of Silksong that aren’t just making me mad.
Maybe mods could be a solution to this?
It really wouldn’t take much. Just some accessibility options to address some of the most punishing mechanics would do it. Would be great if mods solved this.
Several Soulslikes I’ve played have hidden in accessibility options things like not hitting you for falling into a pit, or not taking resources when you die.
I had a fantastic moment with this in Another Crab’s Treasure; I was doing some platforming when Krill glitched off the geometry and fell, killing me in the process. When I respawned, I knew I had tons of microplastics (souls) out there I wanted to save, but also felt frustrated because it wasn’t my fault I died - just bad game coding, as many games have. Plus, the odd positioning meant I might not be able to reach the death spot.
Instead, I just went to Accessibility and recovered them that one time; the game was nice enough not to even invalidate any achievements from the brief use.
That’s me with Hollow Knight. I want to finish, but it’s frustrating to the point that I give up after 30 minutes with no progress.
That’s definitely a rookie amount of time with no progress for this style of game in general.
I’ve played 7+ total hours and I’ve only managed to get Greenpath and Forgotten Crossroads. The fact that my ghost can (and has, many times) kill me is infuriating. How am I supposed to progress if after 30 minutes I want to throw my controller at the wall?
The problem is not the game… its getting mad. You’re supposed to be having fun. If you’re not having fun you’re doing it wrong. Either enjoy overcoming challenges or find something else to do.
I think the point at which I decided I hated Symphony of the Night was when I could go a whole session without finding anything new, or learning anything. The map is just so wide, with no clues as to where you can next explore.
You’re describing the horrid souls-like experience embraced by every gamer in these times.
It’s unpopular to dislike being annoyed and frustrated with your game, didn’t you hear?
God, all the people that can’t imagine that people don’t enjoy things the same exact way they do.
Exactly.
Imagine being ridiculed for not enjoying frustration and games designed around failure. It’s a damned shame.
Then the game is not for you, saying that is not ridiculing you. At all.
It’s not a 70€ AAA game that’s trying to cater to everyone either.
Ok.
Seriously. I love Hollow Knight and what I have played from Silksong thus far, but this elitist “game must be ultra hard and exclude people that can’t do it” shit is and always has been a garbage take as far as I am concerned. Having some sort of option to allow people that aren’t that good or have accessibility issues enjoy the game seems like a fine thing. Having those be optional should in no way prevent people that like the hard default settings from enjoying the game. Maybe have those options disable getting achievements/trophies if it prevents these elitists from enjoying the game knowing that their “lessers” are also able to enjoy the game.
Nine Sols did this perfectly. It’s another very hard metroidvania, but it has some options you can enable if you want to that adjust the difficulty in a variety of very tangible ways. I wish that was standard.
Nine Sols is great, and I agree completely that they did a good job of adding those options. I didn’t end up using them, but I bet it let a lot of people enjoy the game that could have hit a wall in Hollow Knight or people that just couldn’t grasp the parrying mechanic.
I wouldn’t have beaten the ‘true’ final boss without them. No way in hell.
And the idea that every game should be for everyone is the reason why Elden Ring is… kind of a bad game.
Great open world, beautiful scenery… bad boss design, which yes — that is the game.
Like, think about this in the real world setting. Think about how this hyopthetical would play out, person becomes disabled and has to sit in a wheelchair. Everyone agrees ‘it’s not fair that they can’t walk, no one should walk because this person can’t’. And then everyone sits in a wheelchair despite being perfectly abled.
Does that make sense to you? Because it doesn’t to me, I’m sorry if there are people who can’t beat these games — but damn, at some point you have to recognize life isn’t fair and just enjoy the shit you do enjoy. If being good at a video game isn’t important to you, ok that’s your prerogative. Do not play the hard video game. But this constant whining about difficulty settings and nerfs is just obnoxious.
I’m sorry that having an optional setting for people that aren’t as capable as so offensive to you. I also think most people would agree it would be pretty cool if we could fairly easy add an option for people in a wheelchair to get them walking. Clearly you’d rather they didn’t.
Great so you missed the point entirely, just like most people miss the point of games with one difficulty setting.
The way we actually react to that situation is having wheelchair ramps and elevators. (i.e. difficulty settings in games)
We don’t say “Fuck handicapped people, life isn’t fair, it SHOULD suck to be them.”
You’re right, difference being that what you’re saying is more akin (following the analogy) to putting wheelchair ramps on a mountain.
Silksong is the mountain, git gud and climb it or shut the fuck up.
No, Silksong is a game, bright moving colors on a screen, meant to amuse and entertain.
You’re not an elite mountaineer for pressing buttons faster than a disabled person, to quickly move a spider in a red dress on the screen.
I think twitch drives this a lot. Streamers getting annoyed with the game they’re playing tend to do better on their vods and bring in more people. As a result, people become more and more tolerant to games that are just annoying.
Like I understand that some people enjoy the gameplay of soulslikes, but who enjoys run backs?
… I do? They’re like the most basic manifestation of mastery over a particular section meaningfully impacting my experience. Not only does getting good at a run back let me focus on learning the boss more, but it also increases my general mobility throughout the map as a whole and drastically improves how cool it feels to replay the game and just blow through previously challenging sections.
It’s right in the difficulty sweet spot for me despite not being as into games (at the age of 40) as I used to be generally. It’s like it was made for me!!
Once I switched from my steam deck to a platform where I got more than five frames and switched wireless controller surrounded by two separate wireless routers It became one of if not my favorite game but while I was playing with an unknown handicap I saw a bunch of unavoidable flaws that were not the fault of the player at least on the bell beast, there are instances that are impossible to escape like entirely impossible, you can avoid them and I did eventually beat it even with the handicap but the game definitely has flaws that the difficulty accentuates but the later upgrades and tools definitely eliminates most of them.
I expect to see the 100% no hit speedrun hit the internet by the end of the month
That’s entirely possible, that’s why I said “you can avoid them” if you don’t get in the far corner you never get in those situations but if you do you can get chain hit all the way to zero hp. You would have to be clairvoyant to see them coming which of course you can be by replaying the level so a hitless run is entirely possible but that doesn’t make my it fair or good game play.
https://youtu.be/REROOvrzy1o
Not sure if this counts as 100%. But impressive nonetheless.
Difficulty and fun are orthogonal, one doesn’t exclude the other. Look at something like Celeste, it gets brutally difficult in farewell but never feels unfair.
A difficult game should motivate the player to get better, and that can happen while still remaining a fun experience. Nine Sols has a difficult combat system, but the combat feels fluid and fast-paced. Learning how to parry an enemy’s attacks and get in counter hits feels amazing, also you get lots of meaningful upgrades and rewards from everywhere.
Meanwhile in silksong you have a character with insane horizontal movement, then you repeatedly get pushed through narrow vertical platforming sections with flying enemies above, spikes on the sides. Killing a bell guy by agonizingly hitting them 1 hit at a time before they dash away out of reach again is not a fun combat paradigm and doesn’t create the power fantasy Hollow Knight excelled at.
The boss fights and >!Mt.Fay!< are fantastic but exploring the map just feels frustrating, especially when 90% of zones don’t drop any rosaries.
Why drop rosaries when you get killed in 3 hits (for about all of act 1 at the very least) and come across a dozen enemies that bait and dodge every input you make and spike traps within a couple screens every time you die and you get killed a second time on your runback anyway
This is why you utilize the rosary stringing stations. If you’re walking around with a lot of loose rosary beads, then that’s on you.
Not a lot of those in a 5 screen run back, I just need one more try to kill that boss anyway, I swear. Oh shit, it has another move shit he’s juggling 3 HP off me at once aaaand I’m dead again.
And that’s not counting the unexpected “oops you’re locked now, fight these 5 waves of enemies, also your coccoon is locked in that room too, good luck getting your shit back” on your way to anywhere. If that’s your first time playing the game, it takes a bit to pick up on how cruel the game is and to start thinking about how to handle that. I’m not talking about people who already know the game here. That’s not on me, no.
You should encounter an ambush or boss fight within the first hour of gameplay, which is within Steam’s refund window. If you don’t learn from it, well, sucks to suck. The tools are all there. If you’re slow at progressing because the game is too difficult, that’s a different complaint, which is valid as there should be difficulty settings.
Dying is part of the game. dying multiple times to a boss to learn their moveset is the intended gameplay loop. Having unexpected ambushes caught everyone by surprise the first time they went through it. Yet, once you do, it is up to you to learn that you can’t get your stuff back easily so you should be banking your beads and that 20 bead cost isn’t actually that bad as you probably first thought compared to losing everything.
Like, for this specific complaint, that’s entirely on you to figure out and adapt to the intended gameplay loop. How long that takes to figure out is up to your ability to learn and adapt.
Git gud or leave but no complaining allowed okay bud. No, the difficulty being too high is not a different complaint, it’s exactly what we’re talking about. The AI, the room setups and somehow every bug being placed exactly where you’re jumping, the runbacks, getting killed in 3 hits half of the time even though you have 5 HP, getting juggled to death into a spike trap or lava as soon as the first hit despite requiring 3 hits to die despite having 5 HP, getting hit when you’re healing and losing all of it, every single stupidest bug requiring at least 2 or 3 hits to kill and somehow up to 6 or 8 for the bigger ones when they all dodge everything and you have garbage range, anything that flies especially, constant pixel perfect coordination in your jumps, the need to be alert 100% of the time between environment traps and enemies and always have the perfect speedrun strat, on top of the resource management, this is all one complaint. It’s artificially way too hard and there is zero learning curve and no way to tune it down, and it would be less of a problem if you didn’t lose all the resources you were collecting for an hour of doing that loop. Take off some of those or loosen some positioning and it’s already much less stressful - literally any one mod is a big help already (no 2HP damage, respawn near your coccoon…) It’s ruthless, it allows zero second of paying a little less attention, it’s on purpose, and it is not the player’s fault for not running back to a string station that is not marked anywhere. This is not a healthy game to play, and it shouldn’t be justified by saying it’s for players who want to get very good at every single screen of it and no one else.
You want to buy Shakra’s map? Too bad, that room is empty now for some reason, and you have no idea where to find the map now, you don’t know Shakra comes back to the shop area and can be called with that ring, and since you HAVE NO MAP you don’t even know where to go at all anyway. Benches and bellways, same, you CAN’T GO BACK or safely rest and create a checkpoint until you have the funds to even unlock them, at which point getting your beads stringed becomes useless because you just spent them. See that mask shard and/or the simple key and you think it’d be nice to buy in your first couple hours? Your fault for not wanting to keep going back and forth between the docks and the shop to make a string, on top of going back and forth to the farming room for an hour at 5 to 15 beads per run in lava for the Deep Docks, so that’s 500 rosaries gone the second time in a row some stupid bug won’t get out of the way but also reads your every input to dodge every single time you even look at them. And even the first time you die, if you had no bench close by and no map, good luck even getting your coccoon back. What I’ve learned is to completely ignore those big stashes and strings of free rosaries because it’s all bait that you’ll lose in a minute and then permanently the next minute (that Greymoor bird house trap and Moorwing are NOT in the refund window). And learning that didn’t make the experience any better. That’s the difficulty problem we’re talking about, these are not two separate things, it’s literally the whole game. On its own, dying repeatedly is not such a big deal if all you have to do is redo that one jump or even that one series of 15 perfect jumps (fucking Karnak), other Metroidvanias do that too and they’re not awful. It’s everything around it and the permanent pressure.
This game’s trap is that people who played the newer Metroid or Prince of Persia think dying repeatedly in a lengthy, very hard bounce-and-dash maze is not a huge deal breaker even if this one ramps it up to “every screen is a constant challenge”, but they don’t know they should also have played Dark Souls and some other roguelikes first.
Every time I read about players bitching about difficulty, I wonder why they’re so persistent. Either git gud, or move on. There’s plenty of games out there to play instead.
I tried dark souls and realized that kinda game isn’t for me. Neither is getting over it, or anything like that. I just want to lean back and relax, and I don’t want to mess with tight timings and stuff like that. I just play puzzle games because of that, and I thoroughly enjoy it.
Why do they feel the need of forcing themselves through an experience they don’t enjoy? FOMO? Bragging rights? I really don’t get it.
I’m fine with the difficulty, but I’m sure a lot of players bought silksong without beating hollow Knight first, and I feel that the game is too hard for someone just getting into the genre. it’s unnecessary cruel to new players sometimes imo.
someone could enjoy most of the game but be turned away by some of the more frustrating parts, which in my opinion is kinda unfortunate. maybe they bought the game on release and now feel like they are stuck with a game that isn’t worth it.
Too much of Silksong’s difficulty is just numbers. Shitty peon enemies hit for two health because fuck you. Touching a boss while it’s stunned hits for two health because fuck you.
And then there’s the whole shard system, which straight-up doesn’t need to exist since it just makes you never engage with tools. Until you use them to nuke a boss in its final phase, of course, because the alternative is playing RNG roulette against the boss’s 3 adds (that each hit for two damage, naturally).
It’s a great game, but it definitely isn’t a perfect game.
They need to remove shards, tweak (lower) the power of tools, and adjust outgoing damage (ideally through armor-like upgrades you earn).
Oh, and crests were not the right call. We all just use the Reaper (unless we’re further exploiting tools with that other crest).
Shards are my biggest problem with the game atm. They upped the difficulty significantly, and added this system of tools to compensate, and then punish you for engaging with said tools. Boy I tell you there’s nothing I love more than grinding up to the maximum shard capacity, getting my ass fucked by a boss 30 times in a row, and then having to grind for another half an hour to build up my shards again
I feel like they should stick to their guns and just make the game they want to make.
Is it going to be for everyone? No, but no game is.
A game developer can have massive blind spots about their game, feedback can elevate the artist’s vision if responded to critically.
“So, gamer, what did you think about the campfire scene?”
“I didn’t get it at all. When they said Earl and his kid were dead and everyone started crying I had no idea who they were.”
“Huh? You don’t remember him? He was in the scene where you visit the city gate.”
“I haven’t been to the city gate yet.”
“…Really? I…oh shit.”
With all the interactivity games have, it’s very possible for someone’s session to just not hit the same emotional beats the devs planned out. True for an improperly gated story, as well as for a difficulty curve.
Shout out to all the homies that missed the Estus Flask in Dark Souls 2, and who learned nothing revelatory about exploration when they finally came back to it.
Yes, but trying to please everyone can also lead to pleasing no one.
If someone can speedrun the first two chapters in 1:08, it can’t be that hard, can it?
Holy shit did they do that on their first try? Or did they spend basically the entire time since it came out just grinding those exact levels to dial in as close to perfection as they can?
Cos like the rest of us got real jobs
I don’t know how long this guy took, but he knew his ways in and out, so one can safely assume he already spent a lot of time in the game.
I think it’ll only be “too hard” the first play through. I got every achievement in HK, I’ll probably do the same with Silksong, which means eventually I’ll be able to beat every boss in order without dying in less than 10 hours. It’ll get easier to the point where I’m adding challenges to my game just to stay entertained.
Most of the complaints are limited to the early game. After act 1, I didn’t really struggle to the same level anymore. I had the masks and abilities I needed to navigate hard fights.
Some games are just supposed to be harder, it’s how they were designed. Developers shouldn’t have to come out and address anything. If it’s too hard for you, just refund it and move on to another game if you don’t have the patience to learn it.
Let me fill up the negative space in that comment…I want Silksong to be hard. I want to do things dozens of times before succeeding, I want to struggle then overcome
It’s all skill based. You get better, your character gives you more breathing room, but ultimately you have to learn and overcome each new challenge
And that feels amazing, it’s not for everyone but I don’t want a way to make it easier… It would cheapen the experience to even have the option
I’ve been stuck at last judge for hours. I perfected the runback and stage 1 and I feel I’m getting closer. Soon I’ll beat that oversized bug and get to the citadel and it will feel great!
It will! That one took me a while too, but it opens up a lot
Other people having the option to tailor the game to their skill level does nothing to your experience of the game. If other people having access cheapens the experience for you, you have issues.
This game isn’t made for them, it’s made for me. It’s the full package, it’s amazingly well balanced, and truly a lovingly crafted work of art
If you want to mod the game to make it easier, I have no problem with you, or people who use it
But I don’t want a win button in my wonderfully challenging game. I don’t want this to be ruined with temptation. That’s what would cheapen the experience
Cool, so you have issues.
Just because the button exists doesn’t mean you have to use it. The game isn’t made for any one person, it is made for a variety of people with differing skill levels and physical capabilities. The existence of accessibility features does not cheapen your experience, if they do you have issues.
If you make every game for everyone, you make slop
I don’t care if you can enjoy it without putting the effort I put in. I just don’t want a way for myself to make it easier. That’s it.
Fuck off, this is a masterpiece and I love it so much I’ve developed a new callous on my thumb and had to take a day off. I’ve overcome every challenge, I’ve dealt with the frustration, and victory was all the sweeter for that.
I don’t care what you do or don’t enjoy, don’t fuck with my game. I don’t care if you watch a playthrough or mod the game so you can enjoy the story.
I’m not being elitist, I’m pissed because people are trying to ruin the masterfully crafted artistic vision of the best game I’ve played in years
Cool. So I guess people like me with neuropathy should fuck off so people like you can get a boost of perceived superiority because God forbid they put a slider for slowing game speed or other such settings so people like me with physical limitations can adjust the challenge to our capabilities.
The existence of OPTIONAL difficulty settings has nothing to do with your experience of the game. If you don’t opt into using them, your game experience is literally no different than if they didn’t exist at all.
Yes, you in fact are being elitist. The way other people are able to experience the game has NOTHING to do with your experience. Be proud of your experiences for what they are, not how they compare to others’ experiences.
No, you should have a button through the workshop where you can add mods to slow down the game, take less damage, or whatever else you want or need. Let people rebalance the whole damn game if they want, if that makes you enjoy the game I’m happy for you
It should made easier then it is right now with proper workshop integration so it can be done in just a couple clicks. I’d support calling for that
What I don’t want is for team cherry to be pressured to change the game. It’s amazing as is, it’s extremely well thought out in how it challenges you even as the difficulty people complain about prepares you for future challenges. But people who will never enjoy it for what it is instantly demand it be watered down
You think a speed slider is going to make this game accessible? That’s not how this game works. This game is impossible at every challenge until it isn’t. That is the game. It’s rhythm and reaction, if you can do it slow you can do it normally
If I didn’t have a friend who played smash with three fingers and his hip on a heavily modded controller, I wouldn’t have the instincts to be able to play this game. He kicked my ass every time, despite nerve palsy that left him with half of one working hand
This game is not for everyone. And I don’t mean because of abilities… I’m not that good of a gamer. This game is for people who don’t accept their limits
I couldnt agree more. It’s okay if a game is too hard, either take the challenge or just move on to a different one, there’s no shame in it.
Agree but man it is punishing to get smacked back to a bench 6 screens back.
That’s the point?
Are tedium and difficulty the same thing?
Hmm, fair point.
No, they’re not, and that is the whole point.
If you could die a hundred times and never lose any progress, Pharloom wouldn’t feel dangerous or unwelcoming.
This feeling you get when you’re running around an uncharted area is tied to the risk of being sent back, not the difficulty of the enemies in said area.
Sucks to be anyone who didn’t realize how prohibitively difficult it would be until after the refund period
This is true. There are lots of reviews out there to read though before making a purchasing decision.
I mean, it’s a direct sequel to a difficult souls-like. It’s hard to have too much sympathy for anyone who didn’t play the first Hollow Knight but wanted to jump in on the sequel, since I think anyone who played the first HK should have a good idea on what Skong’s difficulty looks like.
I hope they don’t nerf anything else. I was grinding through Sister Sledge (or whatever the boss is called) and I’d nearly done it. Then patch 1 came out and I did it first time. I feel robbed of the achievement.
Tweaking the rosary economy is ok however there is a clear lore reason why it is less generous initially.
I have been pleading with my husband to do exactly this. But no, he will continue to bash his face off enemies until they die by some kind of miracle. He has 5 masks, does not use red tools (but uses the poison polyp in his one blue slot), does not pogo or hit enemies above him, not use running attacks, or heal in the air. Just straight on hit with nail while face tanking and ground heal. I am DREADING him somehow reaching Bilewater.
I absolutely KNOW he is not the only person playing like this, and suspish this is the main source of the difficulty discourse…
Out of curiosity, did he reach Bilewater? Also, did he got infected and if so, was he able to cure himself?
These people have obviously never played cuphead either then.
Is cup head comparable? It looks really floaty
I’d say cuphead has overall better boss design even though dr Carls robot can go fuck itself and dr Carl too.
Silksong has beautiful story and better platforming.
Both are very very hard games.
Yet my, at the time, 5yr old finished cuphead with dlc on normal. Now, at 9, he’s beating silksong bosses faster than me. Got widow in 4 tries…
I mean, you’d have to try it to judge for yourself. But I think it’s one of the best side scrollers ever made.
Cuphead shows you how much health you took off before dying, and lets you restart boss fights immediately and infinitely without needing to replenish any forms of ammo.
I’d say Cuphead is FAR more relaxed.