Dive into the controversial start of "Battlefield 6" with this eye-opening video! As the early access beta kicks off, reports of cheating have surfaced, rais...
I was able to get around secure boot by installing the beta on my PS5. From then, I had the pleasure of being unable to enter due to broken menus! Can’t complain for having spent nothing and having little trust in the franchise.
There’s nothing wrong with Secure Boot and enabling it can prevent a small subset of attack vectors with no real downsides. That being said, the things Secure Boot does protect against aren’t likely to be an issue for most users but it’s nothing to be afraid of.
I am still baffled that anyone thinks that Kernel AC is any kind of effective at stopping hacks, people have been literally making a living off of defeating it, and selling those hacks / methods for almost a decade now…
But nope, still got hordes of idiot gamers who think they work, think they’re necessary, think they can’t be spoofed.
We have to ask the question if cheat developing wasn’t profitable, and even if developers actually operated at a loss, would there be as many cheats on the market as there are now?
Not sure how you could read this and come away with the idea that I do believe that…
I am talking about the subset of gamers that go on internet forums and discord servers and make false, unsupported claims as to the effectiveness or necessity or Kernel AC over other forms of AC, tell people this just is how it is now, get with the program, eat the bugs, play the spyware game, its fine, everyone is doing it.
Indirectly buyers are making a decision on anticheat. If someone buys a game with anticheat, they’ve made the decision to reward the developer for making the decision to include anticheat.
Pretty much the same as all the other modern BFs. They all had cheats in the Beta/early release versions. I’ve played and own literally every BF game since the original release of 1942. Cheats have always been present more or less.
I play games mostly on my Steam Deck after migrating from Xbox. Didn’t want to pay for Internet access to use the Internet I already pay for (Xbox Live).
Battlefield games like BF1 and BF4 used to run on the Deck about a year ago, but then EA toggled something and disallowed any and all Linux distros. Can’t remember their reasoning, but something something anti-cheat.
Now me, a paying customer, was fucking pissed. I purchased these games on my Steam Deck to avoid corporate walled gardens like the Xbox, and then EA lock me out of my purchase after the refund period had elapsed. What the fuck???
So I started dual booting Windows 10 on the Deck to regain access to a product I had paid for. Fucking shit I had to do this in the first place.
But now I need to enable Secure Boot to play the new shit, and I have no clue how to do this without bricking my Deck. I’m an engineer, but not the software type. I don’t want to fuck around with my gear just to play games.
Client-side AC is a poor solution to cheating that can be solved with server-side AC.
Fuck EA. Fuck M$. Fuck all the corporations that want to run spyware on my devices
Hm, yeah, it’s something every developer should know; client-side validation of input still needs server-side validation, because client-side is not reliable, no mather what you force on them.
Things were better when private servers had actual mods and admins, they acted more like pubs where you could go see the regulars, actually form a community.
This is where we need dedicated servers and self moderation
My knowledge towards battlefield games ends at BF4 but I’m pretty sure people pay to host custom servers, EA refuses to open source it and only supply a handful of third parties with the actual code for them to charge hosting fees.
Anyone with half a brain could see this coming from a mile away. My conspiracy brain almost thinks this is some concerted and calculated effort by Microsoft to artificially lock games to Windows through anti cheat. It’s disgusting, isn’t needed, and just plain isn’t effective. They can spew all the metrics out of their ass, we all know that it’s just not effective.
a year ago on Mastodon when EA started locking out games like Apex Legends, BF1, V, 2042, etc from Linux I said “I bet you Microsoft is about to launch a handheld and since they have a deal with EA and Gamepass they want EA Exclusivity on their handheld and to lockout Steamdeck/Valve” sure enough a few months later Microsoft announces their Xbox handheld with Asus.
Needlessly intrusive. Can obviously be circumvented by cheaters anyway, so quite possibly superfluous. Apart from that it protects against the kinds of attacks that typically require physical access to the computer. If you have physical access you have full access anyway. Etc.
I get your pc, “tamper” it, then i install a fake bios that tells you all is well and that your tpm and secureboot and whatever else bullcrap they invent is still happy.
A USB keylogger is not detectable by the computer, not in firmware nor operating system. It passively sniffs the traffic between the USB keyboard and the computer, to be dumped out later.
I recently had an rfid scanner immediately rma-d back that had just been returned to us. The new issue was caused by a setting and not by a defect. I asked our IT/help desk if it WAS a setting that could be changed
“I don’t know. I get the thing, I check these settings, I check those settings, that’s all I know”
😑😑😑
So me and another person are out of our equipment for another couple weeks while the scanner is sent back for “repairs” and the repair people will go “😑 tap tap tap idiots”
(Edit: I know it’s a setting because I talked with the other person who uses it and I explained the issue and he let me know it is something he changes)
Do you have any advice for someone that dual boots SteamOS and Windows 10 on a Steam Deck?
I’ve heard online that since SteamOS manually signs keys or something, that if any changes happen to the kernel that later need to be updated by SteamOS, I’d need to re-sign the keys or whatever. Idk I’m not well versed in any of this
I’ve heard it’s as easy as downloading the M$ keys to enable Secure Boot, but I also don’t want to brick my Deck.
Windows 10 support is ending soon so there’s no reason to have it on your steam deck. Steam will stop supporting it sooner after Microsoft does, just like steam does with Apples operating system.
And Microsoft is shutting out most third parties in the near future because of Crowdstrike, so Linux likely won’t be supporting Secure Boot in the future, even if someone did want to enable it for some odd reason.
Microsoft’s kicking third parties out of the kernel because of crowdstrike. Secure boot is a completely different thing Microsoft can’t kick people out of.
(3) What’s your income? What region of the world do you live in and what hardware is available to you? I’m still using an am4 platform PC as my daily driver because I can’t burn money. One of my buddies has an AM3 PC. Many people use modified surplus office PCs (especially in developing nations like South America or SEA), which don’t have secure boot as an option. Check your privilege, and maybe donate some of your spare hardware to those who need it, if you want to make this “a non issue” for everyone.
(4) Yeah. I own my hardware, I configure my software. I gut Windows like a fish and keep it on a leash for these games, and use Linux for my work and for the games that respect the ecosystem.
New keys have already been released and you can always just create and enroll your own damn keys. This is sensationalist nonsense.
“Check my privilege” over secure boot? Calm down, Karen.
I think gaming on PC is going to get interesting in the coming decade as Microsoft kicks third parties out of the kernel (thanks crowdstrike!) and more and more people just stop putting up with windows. Enterprise in the US is hooked but everyone else? Na, they are gonna drop it.
Edit: these are listed as 1,3,and 4 in my post in voyager but lemmy shows 123. Interesting.
On the list thing, it seems that adding numbers with periods in a list seems to auto configure it to ascending numbers. That’s why I used (1) (3) (4). Weird, but I guess that’s the work around.
Enrolling your keys doesn’t work btw, because battlefield checks which keys you enroll, only accepting the default MS keys. Also on the hardware front, it is a big problem for gamers on a sub-300 USD budget these days - the best deals are on legacy hardware or surplus office equipment, mainly AM3-AM4 era.
The number list is how markdown works. You can enter all 1’s and it will automatically create ordered list.
Handy when you may need to edit list items, as you dont need to renumber even in plain text.
Markdown spec should allow for explicit number by using a bracket ‘)’ instead of a dot, but it may not work everywhere.
Let’s give it a go
They want to keep windows relevant so hard.
Yeah, i enable secure boot, and let some kernel level anti cheat into my system. At least i don’t have to play with cheaters. Oh there are still cheaters. So glad
From my research, while I could see that being the case, “Secure Boot” is classified by the Free Software Foundation and the GNU Project as Tivoization, and GPL-3 was made to fix that. That’s how I saw it, at least.
The standard thing people refer to as “Secure Boot” allows users to enroll their own keys and thus is not TiVo. The ability to enroll your own keys is the distinguishing feature here - TiVo devices don’t let you do that, so you can’t sign your own thing and run it.
The FSF has various pearl clutching articles from the days of Windows 8 fretting about whether or not users would be able to install their own keys on Secure Boot devices, but here in 2025, most devices allow this. (I’m sure there’s a handful of bizarre laptops or whatever that don’t, but the vast majority of hardware I’ve seen is fine.)
It did take off for a time, and now it looks like it’s an early access game that hasn’t had an update in 19 months. And I can tell you that if they don’t let me host the server myself and play via LAN, they’re not solving any problems for me over Battlefield.
I love Battlebit and its a fun time, but it already did take off, sold literally millions of copies (nearly 2 million in its first 2 weeks), and then was effectively abandoned by the developers.
Yeah well too bad that ship has sailed as well. Such a shame, BF2, BC2 and BF3 were quality games, just needed a modern take of one of those instead of whatever this is we got.
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I love the Battlefield series but I’m not turning on Secure Boot for them. If it remains a hard requirement, I’ll simply be passing altogether.
I was able to get around secure boot by installing the beta on my PS5. From then, I had the pleasure of being unable to enter due to broken menus! Can’t complain for having spent nothing and having little trust in the franchise.
You paid for Ps+ though
Actually, right now I’m not. Maybe that was the issue? The UI was a bad missed up so I can’t tell.
There’s nothing wrong with Secure Boot and enabling it can prevent a small subset of attack vectors with no real downsides. That being said, the things Secure Boot does protect against aren’t likely to be an issue for most users but it’s nothing to be afraid of.
If you want to install Linux, secure boot limits the distributions you can use. If you don’t then it’s whatever.
I’ve tested the beta yesterday and only had to enable SB and leave it in custom mode - no need to sign & enroll the linux kernel(s) too
Zero issues on the mighty gecko distro. Not sure why’d you use anything else /s
I am still baffled that anyone thinks that Kernel AC is any kind of effective at stopping hacks, people have been literally making a living off of defeating it, and selling those hacks / methods for almost a decade now…
But nope, still got hordes of idiot gamers who think they work, think they’re necessary, think they can’t be spoofed.
It’s crazy to me that people cheat in online games. You really have to be a huge fucking loser to do this.
Small pp energy.
I don’t know what energy this is, but not good either.
Sadly, I think the financial incentive is too great these days. People make decent money off this shit
The cheat developers, yes. Because there is demand. The question though was, why there is demand.
There’s demand because there’s supply.
Build it and they will come.
We have to ask the question if cheat developing wasn’t profitable, and even if developers actually operated at a loss, would there be as many cheats on the market as there are now?
Small pp energy, am I right? Sad little people who want to feel big…
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Not sure how you could read this and come away with the idea that I do believe that…
I am talking about the subset of gamers that go on internet forums and discord servers and make false, unsupported claims as to the effectiveness or necessity or Kernel AC over other forms of AC, tell people this just is how it is now, get with the program,
eat the bugs, play the spyware game, its fine, everyone is doing it.Indirectly buyers are making a decision on anticheat. If someone buys a game with anticheat, they’ve made the decision to reward the developer for making the decision to include anticheat.
Pretty much the same as all the other modern BFs. They all had cheats in the Beta/early release versions. I’ve played and own literally every BF game since the original release of 1942. Cheats have always been present more or less.
I play games mostly on my Steam Deck after migrating from Xbox. Didn’t want to pay for Internet access to use the Internet I already pay for (Xbox Live).
Battlefield games like BF1 and BF4 used to run on the Deck about a year ago, but then EA toggled something and disallowed any and all Linux distros. Can’t remember their reasoning, but something something anti-cheat.
Now me, a paying customer, was fucking pissed. I purchased these games on my Steam Deck to avoid corporate walled gardens like the Xbox, and then EA lock me out of my purchase after the refund period had elapsed. What the fuck???
So I started dual booting Windows 10 on the Deck to regain access to a product I had paid for. Fucking shit I had to do this in the first place.
But now I need to enable Secure Boot to play the new shit, and I have no clue how to do this without bricking my Deck. I’m an engineer, but not the software type. I don’t want to fuck around with my gear just to play games.
Client-side AC is a poor solution to cheating that can be solved with server-side AC.
Fuck EA. Fuck M$. Fuck all the corporations that want to run spyware on my devices
Hm, yeah, it’s something every developer should know; client-side validation of input still needs server-side validation, because client-side is not reliable, no mather what you force on them.
So you got the spyware without the benefits, that’s a hell of a surprise isn’t it?
But thank you for your money suckers!
This is where we need dedicated servers and self moderation
Yep.
Things were better when private servers had actual mods and admins, they acted more like pubs where you could go see the regulars, actually form a community.
My knowledge towards battlefield games ends at BF4 but I’m pretty sure people pay to host custom servers, EA refuses to open source it and only supply a handful of third parties with the actual code for them to charge hosting fees.
I’m sure there is an NDA involved.
I won’t buy BF6 if it doesn’t have a server browser
DayZ, Rust, TF2 and Minecraft were the model all along. Nice that it’s vindicated.
CS 1.6
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That’s punishing legit players, not the developers. Not playing this shit is the correct spiteful choice.
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Anyone with half a brain could see this coming from a mile away. My conspiracy brain almost thinks this is some concerted and calculated effort by Microsoft to artificially lock games to Windows through anti cheat. It’s disgusting, isn’t needed, and just plain isn’t effective. They can spew all the metrics out of their ass, we all know that it’s just not effective.
I am not sure about this conspiracy theory of yours: Microsoft does not want third party applications in the kernel space anymore.
https://www.theverge.com/news/692637/microsoft-windows-kernel-antivirus-changes
Not entirely;
https://github.com/microsoft/ebpf-for-windows
Microsoft just want that 3rd party code to interact in a more predictable way with the kernel
a year ago on Mastodon when EA started locking out games like Apex Legends, BF1, V, 2042, etc from Linux I said “I bet you Microsoft is about to launch a handheld and since they have a deal with EA and Gamepass they want EA Exclusivity on their handheld and to lockout Steamdeck/Valve” sure enough a few months later Microsoft announces their Xbox handheld with Asus.
And what’s the one thing they are getting fucking torched over even by Xbox loyalists? The price (Steam Deck has a cheaper SKU)
beautiful. fuck secureboot.
Why?
It fucks with Linux. I literally just disabled it to resolve a driver install issue before this announcement was made.
Secureboot doesn’t “fuck with Linux”. It does protect you from malware trying to install unsigned kernel modules.
Apparently that driver is unsigned, which is not the normal case nowadays.
Good to know, thanks
I was trying to install an Nvidia driver on Linux Mint, so I think I am safe.
Is that a realistic attack scenario that end users need to be concerned about?
This type of attack has been seen in the wild for quite some time. Ultimately it’s a security vs convenience decision.
Yes. That’s how you get undetectable rootkits.
This happens to roughly 1/3rd of all pc’s. But if you put secureboot ON and the FBI cant touch your pc
Linux can run with secure boot just fine though. Use your distros documentation to set it up.
Needlessly intrusive. Can obviously be circumvented by cheaters anyway, so quite possibly superfluous. Apart from that it protects against the kinds of attacks that typically require physical access to the computer. If you have physical access you have full access anyway. Etc.
You know secure boot was specifically made to protect users for this exact use case. Any tampering of the system will prevent the system from booting.
I get your pc, “tamper” it, then i install a fake bios that tells you all is well and that your tpm and secureboot and whatever else bullcrap they invent is still happy.
See the problem?
It won’t boot though, because the keys to decrypt the system are stored in the TPM.
Sure you could replace the whole OS, but that’s going to be very obvious and won’t allow you access to the data.
Isnt it possible to have a recovery key? Isnt that technically a backdoor? Maybe the terms are not correct but there is a way in physically.
A person with physical access can tamper with the OS, then tamper with the signing keys. Most secure boot systems allow you to install keys.
Secure boot can’t detect a USB keylogger. Nothing can.
The signature checks will immediately fail if ANY tampering has occurred.
Adding a USB keylogger that has not been signed will cause a signature verification failure during boot.
A USB keylogger is not detectable by the computer, not in firmware nor operating system. It passively sniffs the traffic between the USB keyboard and the computer, to be dumped out later.
If your keys are stored in the TPM for use during the secure boot phase, there will be nothing for it to log.
No, encrypt your drives.
Im fairly certain any legacy hardware that doesn’t have secure boot as an option is going to struggle loading BF6 regardless.
The first two points are not related to secure boot at all.
you think loading my own kernel modules is not related to secure boot? i guess you don’t work in IT then.
Most people who work IT don’t even know what a kernel is, tbf
I recently had an rfid scanner immediately rma-d back that had just been returned to us. The new issue was caused by a setting and not by a defect. I asked our IT/help desk if it WAS a setting that could be changed
“I don’t know. I get the thing, I check these settings, I check those settings, that’s all I know”
😑😑😑
So me and another person are out of our equipment for another couple weeks while the scanner is sent back for “repairs” and the repair people will go “😑 tap tap tap idiots”
(Edit: I know it’s a setting because I talked with the other person who uses it and I explained the issue and he let me know it is something he changes)
It doesn’t matter which kernel modules are used, as long as you have signed those changes before rebooting.
You can’t install most linux distributions with secure boot enabled.
This is outdated information. Linux has supported secure boot for quite a while now.
Do you have any advice for someone that dual boots SteamOS and Windows 10 on a Steam Deck?
I’ve heard online that since SteamOS manually signs keys or something, that if any changes happen to the kernel that later need to be updated by SteamOS, I’d need to re-sign the keys or whatever. Idk I’m not well versed in any of this
I’ve heard it’s as easy as downloading the M$ keys to enable Secure Boot, but I also don’t want to brick my Deck.
Windows 10 support is ending soon so there’s no reason to have it on your steam deck. Steam will stop supporting it sooner after Microsoft does, just like steam does with Apples operating system.
And Microsoft is shutting out most third parties in the near future because of Crowdstrike, so Linux likely won’t be supporting Secure Boot in the future, even if someone did want to enable it for some odd reason.
Microsoft can’t stop you from signing images with your own keys.
That’s what I do, and it’s almost entirely automated on Linux these days.
Microsoft’s kicking third parties out of the kernel because of crowdstrike. Secure boot is a completely different thing Microsoft can’t kick people out of.
Really? Which would those be? So far I haven’t come upon one.
Yeah that simply isn’t true. I use Secure Boot on all my Linux installs - both in the deb and rpm ecosystem system.
I don’t think he needs a winning argument. I think EA needs to justify this kernel level AC, not the other way around.
I’m agreeing with point 4.
(1) Yeah, well the secure boot keys needed for Linux distributions expire in September (https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/microsoft-signing-key-required-for-secure-boot-uefi-bootloader-expires-in-september-which-could-be-problematic-for-linux-users), so that seems like a sustainable solution, sure buddy.
(3) What’s your income? What region of the world do you live in and what hardware is available to you? I’m still using an am4 platform PC as my daily driver because I can’t burn money. One of my buddies has an AM3 PC. Many people use modified surplus office PCs (especially in developing nations like South America or SEA), which don’t have secure boot as an option. Check your privilege, and maybe donate some of your spare hardware to those who need it, if you want to make this “a non issue” for everyone.
(4) Yeah. I own my hardware, I configure my software. I gut Windows like a fish and keep it on a leash for these games, and use Linux for my work and for the games that respect the ecosystem.
Edit: these are listed as 1,3,and 4 in my post in voyager but lemmy shows 123. Interesting.
On the list thing, it seems that adding numbers with periods in a list seems to auto configure it to ascending numbers. That’s why I used (1) (3) (4). Weird, but I guess that’s the work around.
Enrolling your keys doesn’t work btw, because battlefield checks which keys you enroll, only accepting the default MS keys. Also on the hardware front, it is a big problem for gamers on a sub-300 USD budget these days - the best deals are on legacy hardware or surplus office equipment, mainly AM3-AM4 era.
The number list is how markdown works. You can enter all 1’s and it will automatically create ordered list.
Handy when you may need to edit list items, as you dont need to renumber even in plain text.
Markdown spec should allow for explicit number by using a bracket ‘)’ instead of a dot, but it may not work everywhere.
Let’s give it a go
Weird, for me it was just flicking the switch in UEFI and now Grub and through it Windows 10 and Fedora 43 boot in Secure Boot.
Your anti-cheat doesn’t work anyway so let me play in linux you cowards.
They want to keep windows relevant so hard. Yeah, i enable secure boot, and let some kernel level anti cheat into my system. At least i don’t have to play with cheaters. Oh there are still cheaters. So glad
I’m glad I didn’t enable Tivoization (Secure Boot) and TPM. Those suck, and actually froze our machines. It’s literally useless at this point.
Secure Boot isn’t Tivoization because you can enroll your own keys.
From my research, while I could see that being the case, “Secure Boot” is classified by the Free Software Foundation and the GNU Project as Tivoization, and GPL-3 was made to fix that. That’s how I saw it, at least.
The standard thing people refer to as “Secure Boot” allows users to enroll their own keys and thus is not TiVo. The ability to enroll your own keys is the distinguishing feature here - TiVo devices don’t let you do that, so you can’t sign your own thing and run it.
The FSF has various pearl clutching articles from the days of Windows 8 fretting about whether or not users would be able to install their own keys on Secure Boot devices, but here in 2025, most devices allow this. (I’m sure there’s a handful of bizarre laptops or whatever that don’t, but the vast majority of hardware I’ve seen is fine.)
And yet they have the audacity to block Linux players
They’re gonna kill this game aren’t they.
Nah. Everyone wants tpm 2.0 Ask Microsoft
Game is generic enough, so it’ll keep a playerbase.
There aren’t exactly a wealth of games doing what Battlefield does outside of Battlefield itself.
Battlebit is fantastic. The only reason it hasn’t taken off is because of gamerbros that can’t handle anything besides realistic graphics
It did take off for a time, and now it looks like it’s an early access game that hasn’t had an update in 19 months. And I can tell you that if they don’t let me host the server myself and play via LAN, they’re not solving any problems for me over Battlefield.
I love Battlebit and its a fun time, but it already did take off, sold literally millions of copies (nearly 2 million in its first 2 weeks), and then was effectively abandoned by the developers.
The developers recently made a Steam post that they are coming back with a big update so… Here’s hoping
I can handle the graphics, I just suck too much at the game
Yeah well too bad that ship has sailed as well. Such a shame, BF2, BC2 and BF3 were quality games, just needed a modern take of one of those instead of whatever this is we got.
That hardly makes it generic though.
If you’ve played any triple A shooters, you’ve played them all.
Very untrue, but okay.
I have a feeling they are
It’s already dead mate. Hop on the finals, we got linux support.