With the official reveal of the mouse mode for the Switch 2’s controllers there is the potential for so many classic games to flood the console.
Imagine what it could do with graphical adventure games, RTS games, management sims, etc.
We already know CIV VII will use the mouse, and I just hope this is just the beginning for a whole range of traditionally non-console games to finally make it to the platform.
I can’t wait for it to be a thing that only a small handful of actually good 3rd party titles use that feature and the rest are gonna be 1st party titles shoehorning it in to say “Look at our fancy new feature we swear nobody has ever done before! Trust me!”.
It’s a funny gimmick but all the competitors already have support mouse and keyboard.
You can also use them in some games like Sims 4 or Cities: Skylines.
But guess this mouse mode could also encourage 3rd party developers to add mouse and keyboard support for their games on consoles.
So… its $50 more than an LCD, 256 GB Steam Deck (the Switch 2 is also LCD).
A Deck has two touchpads that work as mice.
And you can buy a real mouse with those $50 bucks you saved.
Oh right and it has a bigger screen, can run almost every modern to ancient PC game, and basically every retro game if you can handle an EmuDeck or RetroDeck guided installer, oh and it also just is a computer that does everything a mid tier linux laptop can do.
It can even run Switch games, and probably will be able to run Switch 2 games in… what, 2 years? 3 years?
I’m really not trying to rain on the parade here, but uh… yeah I do not understand the cost benefit analysis on a Switch 2 vs a Deck unless:
You really, really want to play Switch 2 games soon
OR
The Switch 2 somehow has vastly superior performance to a Steam Deck
… I kinda doubt that last one being the case, but the specs aren’t out yet (afaik) so I guess it is possible.
It’s not just 12 year old kids either; this is how most people in the console market make their decisions. They prioritize the availability of games on the console over the hardware’s specifications and operating system.
Yup. I want to play Prime 4 and DK Bananza at some point. I don’t need to play them day 1, but I’ll want to play them eventually. And I’ll want to play the inevitable Pikmin 5 and Smash Bros 6.
Yeah I think Lemmy often forgets that kids exist and are the target audience for Nintendo games. I say good for them, it might be hella expensive but at least Nintendo appears to be providing a “safe” place for kids to use the internet. There’s really nothing for kids anymore these days other than getting an eating disorder on tiktok.
Yep, I already said the Switch 2 makes sense if all you care about is playing Switch 2 games.
I am not trying to aruge that the Deck is just hands down, inherently superior in all cases, for everyone.
I hope there’s a way for you to put parental controls on your 12 yo’s Fortnite account’s ability to buy microtransactions, and that you have enough time to teach them how to identify and disregard all the dark patterns in the game that encourage irresponsible spending habits, as well as resist all the social peer pressure that comes with an MTX heavy game.
I am a huge proponent of the steam deck but there are a few things you’re kind of leaving out here
You would be surprised how many people actually don’t have a mouse on hand. But if they do, you do have to calculate that into the cost.
you need a dock or at least a cheap USB-C dongle unless the only thing you plan on hooking up to the steam deck is your mouse, which would be feasible but unusual.
The deck is getting a little longer in the tooth. I love it, I use it a ton, but it is definitely starting to show its age.
It can’t play Nintendo switch/switch 2 games natively, which many people who shit on Nintendo (I am one of those people don’t get me wrong) tend to forget is a pretty huge part of the appeal of Nintendo platforms.
if you plan on doing Couch multiplayer, the steam deck is really not a viable option compared to the switch unless you invest in a bunch of other stuff
I agree with everything except #5. If you want to play couch multiplayer for the switch with two people you’re set with the tiny joycons. If you want any comfort playing those games you’re investing in at LEAST as many controllers as you have couch players and the same can be said about the deck. But the Deck has options and years of hardware options that are far more inexpensive than the $90 joycons or $80 pro controllers at launch. Given time I’m sure there may be options for the S2 but I think the Deck has far more inexpensive options for multiplayer.
That said, the deck dock is expensive so maybe my argument is entirely moot.
A 10usd Chinese knockoff Bluetooth controller works well enough for multi-player. The true little brother experience is to play with the shitty controller.
For the steam deck, you’d have to buy 2 controllers (potentially both shitty), so the benefit for the switch is still there.
The steam deck can get fucky with 2 Bluetooth devices (forget 3) so unless you plan on a M or K you need a dock or dongle. I guess unless you plan on not charging either.
1: I mean, I guess? I do not even have a mouse myself right now… but if I needed just a cheapo one for basic use… you can get something functional for $20 or under, a basic mouse you’d get for a work laptop type thing.
2: People have all kinds of ‘unusual’ Deck set ups.
The mouse dongle you just mentioned wouldn’t… really make that much sense, as … you can just hold it… and use the touch pads… or the touch sensitive screen itself…
But its actually not uncommon for people to dock their deck, sync it to a controller or M+K, and then stream it to a smart tv, or a dumb one via a dongle or direct connection to the dock. No, you’re not gonna get true 4k on any non retro game, but a good number of people do something like this.
3: … As compared to…? Your minimum 3x more expensive PC you can upgrade with even more money? Another console/handheld you… can’t upgrade?
Unless the Switch 2 can play Cyberpunk 2077 at better than 45 fps, with graphics basically medium/high, I don’t see how the Deck is ‘showing its age’ compared to other similarly priced handhelds.
Decky FrameGen is pretty neat. I think I managed to tweak mine up to an avg of almost 55 on the benchmark, and thats without mucking around in CET to squeeze out even more.
4: I absolutely understand buying a Switch 2 is your best option if you want a very straightforward, doubleplus legal, and expensive way to play Switch 2 games.
Like, if you’re super dedicated to current era Nintendo games, sure, fine, yep, get a Switch 2.
But if you just like games in general…
5: Pretty much yeah, I agree. Its possible to get it working with a Deck, but its gonna be a lot more hassle, and you’ll need peripherals, yep.
Plus the Switch barely had any exclusive games. For a Nintendo console anyway. Perhaps that‘s something Nintendo is working on now, but I doubt it can compete with PC games in terms of bang you get for your buck. There‘s just no way.
$80 digital. $90 physical. With the added spite that the “physical” copy is just a cartridge that loads a code for the game download. It’s just a $10 plastic box with an SD card with a download code inside.
It‘s interesting they abandoned physical media completely and nobody is talking about it. This makes them a direct competitor to Steam and well… let‘s just say I don‘t see 90% discounts in the Nintendo shop any time soon.
Nintendo shop regularly runs deals similar to Steam. Usually at around the same times of year. Same with PlayStation. I run games on all three platforms. You have to be kind of a sucker these days to buy a game at full price when it’s first released. But none of what I said makes $80 games reasonably priced.
To be fair, there is no guarantee you‘ll be able to emulate Switch 2 games as soon and easily as Switch games. You just might, but we really don‘t know for sure.
The Switch 2 footage of Elden Ring did look better than what I can get out of my Steam Deck. I wouldn’t be surprised if it has a performance advantage (perhaps thanks to native DLSS and frame generation) for the next year or two.
The technicals are … very complex, but the upshot is: It basically injects FrameScaling/FrameGen modes into games that don’t officially support them on AMD hardware.
So… I’ve done this with CP2077, and if I understand this right, basically it injects FSR3, but under the DLSS settings under the game’s options menu… and it works better than the game’s current officially supported FSR 2 for the Deck.
that is what my guess would be. 2-25 average. comparing a steamdeck to a switch and touting emulation for the switch is wild because the steam deck isn’t that powerful
Do you think that? I just think their approach is not getting inventive with games that are better suited for mouse gaming, because I can tell playing those games with traditional controllers seems like a chore.
Well, PC ain’t a handheld, unless you add streaming (local or externally) or a dedicated machine like the Steam Deck to the equation, that would definitely be something about the 450 bucks Nintey asks.
I mean…gyro support is such a niche thing. The PS3 controller introduced gyro support - what used it? There’s examples, but not many, because most games are made to be multi platform, and programming in gyro controls is a lot harder than most other controls
Nintendo is an exception because they have a lot of exclusives - gyro support is a lot more appealing to implement if all of the devices have it, plus they probably encouraged it
I wouldn’t worry about it too much, the incentive for exclusives to have it remains, this is a tool for porting to the switch and exploring new control schemes more than anything else
I was surprised to see that both left and right joycons have the mouse functionality. Was cool to see it in action with the wheelchair basketball game.
But even if it isn’t uncomfortable to use and has decent DPI? It is going to have the same problem the OG steam controller or even the PS5 adaptive triggers have. If only one platform is going to use an input type then it is not going to be used by any third parties.
Yes, in this case it is two platforms: Switch and PC. But the number of developers who will say “I can make a switch port and only a switch port of my game” are few and far between. They’ll once again focus on how to make gamepad work because that gives them ALL the consoles, the Steam Deck, and even helps us olds with RSI.
First, if they already have a PC port your point is moot. They would still need to make a controller version for the Xbox and PS5, but the switch can use both.
Secondly, some games are simply not released on consoles because it simply doesn’t translate well without a mouse, like RTS games, for example.
You DO realize that a port is not just as simple as picking the dropdown in your editor to compile for switch versus xbox versus PC, right?
There is a substantial amount of effort to do any kind of port. And for one where the default experience is a 1080p handheld display? The kinds of games that only have M+KB support (because people are also forgetting the “KB” part…) are not the ones that run the best on tiny screens. And where the default use case is having both joycons still connected to the device.
Don’t get me wrong. There are definitely corner cases. But we literally went through this with the Steam Controller a decade or so ago (15 years?). Consoles are a giant part of the market and targeting xinput gets you an interface that works on all of those AND improves the experience for a lot of users on PC. Versus finding a way to downscale your input to just a mouse and 8-10 buttons?
The number of third parties that meaningfully benefit from the switch-mouse are going to be very small. And most, if not all, of them will also have gamepad support for people who don’t want to have to sit at at a table with a surface that is compatible with said switch mouse.
OH! If studios were really going to specifically target switch ports for RTSes and Grand Strategy games, we would have seen a lot more that took advantage of the motion controls of the Switch 1. That shit was wild.
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I’m pretty excited for this feature honestly, I know a lot of games won’t use it but still it’s gonna be fun.
RIP floors and tables.
I can’t wait for it to be a thing that only a small handful of actually good 3rd party titles use that feature and the rest are gonna be 1st party titles shoehorning it in to say “Look at our fancy new feature we swear nobody has ever done before! Trust me!”.
I can absolutely see it happen.
Just like the camera!
It’s a funny gimmick but all the competitors already have support mouse and keyboard. You can also use them in some games like Sims 4 or Cities: Skylines.
But guess this mouse mode could also encourage 3rd party developers to add mouse and keyboard support for their games on consoles.
So… its $50 more than an LCD, 256 GB Steam Deck (the Switch 2 is also LCD).
A Deck has two touchpads that work as mice.
And you can buy a real mouse with those $50 bucks you saved.
Oh right and it has a bigger screen, can run almost every modern to ancient PC game, and basically every retro game if you can handle an EmuDeck or RetroDeck guided installer, oh and it also just is a computer that does everything a mid tier linux laptop can do.
It can even run Switch games, and probably will be able to run Switch 2 games in… what, 2 years? 3 years?
I’m really not trying to rain on the parade here, but uh… yeah I do not understand the cost benefit analysis on a Switch 2 vs a Deck unless:
You really, really want to play Switch 2 games soon
OR
The Switch 2 somehow has vastly superior performance to a Steam Deck
… I kinda doubt that last one being the case, but the specs aren’t out yet (afaik) so I guess it is possible.
From my 12y old kids perspective:
The switch 2 plays fortnite and Mario kart. The steamdeck doesn’t.
There is no difficult choice for him.
He doesn’t give a fuck about anything else. Neither do his friends.
It’s not just 12 year old kids either; this is how most people in the console market make their decisions. They prioritize the availability of games on the console over the hardware’s specifications and operating system.
Yup. I want to play Prime 4 and DK Bananza at some point. I don’t need to play them day 1, but I’ll want to play them eventually. And I’ll want to play the inevitable Pikmin 5 and Smash Bros 6.
Yeah I think Lemmy often forgets that kids exist and are the target audience for Nintendo games. I say good for them, it might be hella expensive but at least Nintendo appears to be providing a “safe” place for kids to use the internet. There’s really nothing for kids anymore these days other than getting an eating disorder on tiktok.
We got the nieces and nephews 3DSes, my brother sideloaded some emulators on them and it has been the best
Yep, I already said the Switch 2 makes sense if all you care about is playing Switch 2 games.
I am not trying to aruge that the Deck is just hands down, inherently superior in all cases, for everyone.
I hope there’s a way for you to put parental controls on your 12 yo’s Fortnite account’s ability to buy microtransactions, and that you have enough time to teach them how to identify and disregard all the dark patterns in the game that encourage irresponsible spending habits, as well as resist all the social peer pressure that comes with an MTX heavy game.
Problem is, the steam deck plays both of those things. Steam deck just needs windows for fartnight
In my local pricing, my 512GB LCD deck was almost 300$ cheaper than the switch 2 lol.
I am a huge proponent of the steam deck but there are a few things you’re kind of leaving out here
You would be surprised how many people actually don’t have a mouse on hand. But if they do, you do have to calculate that into the cost.
you need a dock or at least a cheap USB-C dongle unless the only thing you plan on hooking up to the steam deck is your mouse, which would be feasible but unusual.
The deck is getting a little longer in the tooth. I love it, I use it a ton, but it is definitely starting to show its age.
It can’t play Nintendo switch/switch 2 games natively, which many people who shit on Nintendo (I am one of those people don’t get me wrong) tend to forget is a pretty huge part of the appeal of Nintendo platforms.
if you plan on doing Couch multiplayer, the steam deck is really not a viable option compared to the switch unless you invest in a bunch of other stuff
I agree with everything except #5. If you want to play couch multiplayer for the switch with two people you’re set with the tiny joycons. If you want any comfort playing those games you’re investing in at LEAST as many controllers as you have couch players and the same can be said about the deck. But the Deck has options and years of hardware options that are far more inexpensive than the $90 joycons or $80 pro controllers at launch. Given time I’m sure there may be options for the S2 but I think the Deck has far more inexpensive options for multiplayer.
That said, the deck dock is expensive so maybe my argument is entirely moot.
A 10usd Chinese knockoff Bluetooth controller works well enough for multi-player. The true little brother experience is to play with the shitty controller.
For the steam deck, you’d have to buy 2 controllers (potentially both shitty), so the benefit for the switch is still there.
So buy 2 $10 controllers for the steam deck and still save money since the switch costs $50 more to begin with.
Comfort or not you can just do it. I’ve done it plenty. It’s a viable option
The offical dock is $80, but you can get the Baseus Dock for between $30 and $40.
Mice are cheap. Even Bluetooth ones, which wouldn’t need a dock or dongle to be used with the deck.
The steam deck can get fucky with 2 Bluetooth devices (forget 3) so unless you plan on a M or K you need a dock or dongle. I guess unless you plan on not charging either.
Point by point:
1: I mean, I guess? I do not even have a mouse myself right now… but if I needed just a cheapo one for basic use… you can get something functional for $20 or under, a basic mouse you’d get for a work laptop type thing.
2: People have all kinds of ‘unusual’ Deck set ups.
The mouse dongle you just mentioned wouldn’t… really make that much sense, as … you can just hold it… and use the touch pads… or the touch sensitive screen itself…
But its actually not uncommon for people to dock their deck, sync it to a controller or M+K, and then stream it to a smart tv, or a dumb one via a dongle or direct connection to the dock. No, you’re not gonna get true 4k on any non retro game, but a good number of people do something like this.
3: … As compared to…? Your minimum 3x more expensive PC you can upgrade with even more money? Another console/handheld you… can’t upgrade?
Unless the Switch 2 can play Cyberpunk 2077 at better than 45 fps, with graphics basically medium/high, I don’t see how the Deck is ‘showing its age’ compared to other similarly priced handhelds.
Decky FrameGen is pretty neat. I think I managed to tweak mine up to an avg of almost 55 on the benchmark, and thats without mucking around in CET to squeeze out even more.
4: I absolutely understand buying a Switch 2 is your best option if you want a very straightforward, doubleplus legal, and expensive way to play Switch 2 games.
Like, if you’re super dedicated to current era Nintendo games, sure, fine, yep, get a Switch 2.
But if you just like games in general…
5: Pretty much yeah, I agree. Its possible to get it working with a Deck, but its gonna be a lot more hassle, and you’ll need peripherals, yep.
$90 per game. That’s an instant deal breaker.
Yeah… I was thinking about getting my first Nintendo console, but these prices are ridiculous even if it’s “only” $80 for a digital game.
Bro, Mario 64 is the same game as Mario Sunshine is the same game as Mario galaxy is the same game as Mario Odyssey. Just get a cheaper console. Done.
Plus the Switch barely had any exclusive games. For a Nintendo console anyway. Perhaps that‘s something Nintendo is working on now, but I doubt it can compete with PC games in terms of bang you get for your buck. There‘s just no way.
wait wait wait.
Fucking… what?
… Are they trying to preempt the expected ‘GTA 6 MSRPs for $120, base edition and breaks all video game pricing’ thing?
I’m seeing $80 for Mario Kart World.
puts on eyepatch and peg leg
$80 digital. $90 physical. With the added spite that the “physical” copy is just a cartridge that loads a code for the game download. It’s just a $10 plastic box with an SD card with a download code inside.
It‘s interesting they abandoned physical media completely and nobody is talking about it. This makes them a direct competitor to Steam and well… let‘s just say I don‘t see 90% discounts in the Nintendo shop any time soon.
Not 1st party sure, but there is a weekly deal cycle where 3rd party publishers compete to stand out.
https://www.dekudeals.com/games?filter[critic_score]=70&filter[platform]=switch&filter[format]=digital&filter[discount]=discounted
That’s something at least. Now Nintendo needs to actually advertise their shop and those deals instead of yet another wave of retro ports.
Though it’s probably worth mentioning I’m not going to buy a Switch 2 anyway. I’m more of an observer from the PC gaming sidelines.
Nintendo shop regularly runs deals similar to Steam. Usually at around the same times of year. Same with PlayStation. I run games on all three platforms. You have to be kind of a sucker these days to buy a game at full price when it’s first released. But none of what I said makes $80 games reasonably priced.
With the added bonus of Nintendo’s notoriously infrequent and shitty sales
Or without having to learn to emulate. Or play coop/multiplayer with the joycons.
To be fair, there is no guarantee you‘ll be able to emulate Switch 2 games as soon and easily as Switch games. You just might, but we really don‘t know for sure.
The Switch 2 footage of Elden Ring did look better than what I can get out of my Steam Deck. I wouldn’t be surprised if it has a performance advantage (perhaps thanks to native DLSS and frame generation) for the next year or two.
I suggest you check out Decky FrameGen.
The technicals are … very complex, but the upshot is: It basically injects FrameScaling/FrameGen modes into games that don’t officially support them on AMD hardware.
So… I’ve done this with CP2077, and if I understand this right, basically it injects FSR3, but under the DLSS settings under the game’s options menu… and it works better than the game’s current officially supported FSR 2 for the Deck.
Elden Ring may also be able to benefit from it.
I mean with those price tags you expect games to look better. Anything else would be ridiculous.
The biggest feature of a game console is always the games. So ya, buy it if you think the games are worth it.
And they suck trying to use them for an FPS.
How well is yuzu on the steam deck to run Zelda games?
Not… Great. You don’t reach 30fps often. At least, last time i tried a few months ago.
that is what my guess would be. 2-25 average. comparing a steamdeck to a switch and touting emulation for the switch is wild because the steam deck isn’t that powerful
Lol
Two words: Mario Paint
Awww yisssss
Glad to know that Nintendo admits PCs are the best way to game lol.
Do you think that? I just think their approach is not getting inventive with games that are better suited for mouse gaming, because I can tell playing those games with traditional controllers seems like a chore.
With a PC you get both
Well, PC ain’t a handheld, unless you add streaming (local or externally) or a dedicated machine like the Steam Deck to the equation, that would definitely be something about the 450 bucks Nintey asks.
PC = personal computer
I mean… A gaming mouse is probably cheaper than the controller alone lol
But that’s an alternative, and the games obviously aren’t made with that in mind.
This is an integral part of the system and obviously games would specifically work with it.
It’s a small game changer (IMO).
But that controller comes with the console.
I swear people (not you) comments just because lol.
We get it boys, Nintendo doesn’t do anything right.
i can’t imagine that will be comfortable to use for any significant amount of time.
Sure, that’s a valid point. But in this case there can be actual mice for the Switch 2 because the games Will support mouse mode.
does it support keyboards as well? or how else do you control WASD etc?
Left joycon for movement. Right joycon for mouse.
That looks much less comfortable than the way the Lenovo Legion handles it.
…also the pessimist in me is afraid this will result in less games with gyro aiming support…
I mean…gyro support is such a niche thing. The PS3 controller introduced gyro support - what used it? There’s examples, but not many, because most games are made to be multi platform, and programming in gyro controls is a lot harder than most other controls
Nintendo is an exception because they have a lot of exclusives - gyro support is a lot more appealing to implement if all of the devices have it, plus they probably encouraged it
I wouldn’t worry about it too much, the incentive for exclusives to have it remains, this is a tool for porting to the switch and exploring new control schemes more than anything else
Could be useful for RimWorld. Factorio maybe.
At that point they might as well let you plug in a mouse to the console and then you might as well just buy a Steam Deck anyway.
Oh absolutely
I was surprised to see that both left and right joycons have the mouse functionality. Was cool to see it in action with the wheelchair basketball game.
Eh?
Conceptually I like the idea.
But even if it isn’t uncomfortable to use and has decent DPI? It is going to have the same problem the OG steam controller or even the PS5 adaptive triggers have. If only one platform is going to use an input type then it is not going to be used by any third parties.
Yes, in this case it is two platforms: Switch and PC. But the number of developers who will say “I can make a switch port and only a switch port of my game” are few and far between. They’ll once again focus on how to make gamepad work because that gives them ALL the consoles, the Steam Deck, and even helps us olds with RSI.
First, if they already have a PC port your point is moot. They would still need to make a controller version for the Xbox and PS5, but the switch can use both.
Secondly, some games are simply not released on consoles because it simply doesn’t translate well without a mouse, like RTS games, for example.
You DO realize that a port is not just as simple as picking the dropdown in your editor to compile for switch versus xbox versus PC, right?
There is a substantial amount of effort to do any kind of port. And for one where the default experience is a 1080p handheld display? The kinds of games that only have M+KB support (because people are also forgetting the “KB” part…) are not the ones that run the best on tiny screens. And where the default use case is having both joycons still connected to the device.
Don’t get me wrong. There are definitely corner cases. But we literally went through this with the Steam Controller a decade or so ago (15 years?). Consoles are a giant part of the market and targeting xinput gets you an interface that works on all of those AND improves the experience for a lot of users on PC. Versus finding a way to downscale your input to just a mouse and 8-10 buttons?
The number of third parties that meaningfully benefit from the switch-mouse are going to be very small. And most, if not all, of them will also have gamepad support for people who don’t want to have to sit at at a table with a surface that is compatible with said switch mouse.
OH! If studios were really going to specifically target switch ports for RTSes and Grand Strategy games, we would have seen a lot more that took advantage of the motion controls of the Switch 1. That shit was wild.
Metroid Prime 4 with mouse controls is gonna go so hard
I want my Metroid Prime Hunters online (I still hop there with Wiimmfi)… Not everything must be Splatoon :/