Hur dur what a great addition to the discussion! May as well stick to Reddit and the meme forums if you’re not going to add anything of value to the comments.
We used to have both good and bad games without microtransactions. I dont think its right to give concessions to game companies that include microtransactions just because its become so normalised.
I dont feel sorry for a game company that cant make literal billions from a game without adding a store.
They dont need billions to develop good games. Most of that profit goes straight to the top and overworked developers see very little of it.
You can have completely f2p games though that everyone can enjoy and that has microtransactions though. Then everyone can enjoy the game and if they want to spend money then do so. That was the point of my post.
It’s awful paying full price for a game with microtransactions though, that is shitty for sure.
I don’t mind IAP purchases in any games but when I start up a game for the first time and the biggest for first option you see is to buy more stuff it makes me really annoyed . I just bought the game let me play it before tryung to sell me more stuff that I don’t want .
It’s more of a “are good games with microtransactions good regardless of MTX or in spite of them?”
You can totally have a good game with MTX, but I think it always lowers the quality in some way, and they’re only good in spite. I don’t think OP is suggesting that no MTX guarantees a good game, but that a game should stand on its own merits and sell its whole experience instead of chopping itself up piecemeal
I think there’s a strong possibility you’re correct, especially with that genre. When it comes to purely competitive games continual new content and adjustments keep the masses coming back, and providing those things long term with no monetization is a business suicidal idea, and I think that strong reasoning like that excuses a lot of the cynicism and bad faith behind MTX in those specific cases provided its still relatively fair.
I give you an A+ for an actual strong argument for MTX (in those and related cases)
I kind of doubt that. A lot of things like say, character skins, are done using the “leftover artist hours”, when the core programming of the game is done, but there’s a lot of tweaks and fixes going in - and the character artists are left with nothing to do. Having them make downloadable items is just another way to justify keeping those artists on the payroll.
The man-hours spent in MTX can’t necessarily easily be redirected to make more singleplayer content. Generally, if a game just doesn’t have enough content or doesn’t feel satisfying, that’s my direct criticism of it - that they didn’t do a good enough job, and it should show up in reviews too. I also generally don’t buy MTX at all, and have rarely felt I got “less than a whole entity”.
I know and understand the whole idea of maximizing artist hours for cosmetic DLC. It’s an understandable reason for it to exist.
However, the big thing about MTX to me is the way it changes my perception of the game and how it feels to interact with it. Playing games without in-game cash shops or MTX allows me to focus on the game itself and feel that what I’ve purchased is one cohesive piece that works in a singular purpose towards a goal of something enjoyable to play and rewarding to explore the content of.
Something like Prey 2016. My entire memory and experience of playing that game is absolutely nothing but the experience of the lore, atmosphere, gameplay, decisions, and the creativity of exploration. At no point was I ever passing over menu options designed to sell me more piecemeal content, I wasn’t wading through a reel of battle pass cosmetics, I wasn’t attempting to ignore little rectangular ads on the main menu asking me to check some skins out.
And again, I totally understand why those things are there and I’m not inherently against their existence, I enjoy many games where those experiences are a part. In the end, I just believe that being free of that stuff absolutely makes a game feel perceptibly better and more pure, more of a game and less of a transparently monetized product.
I also feel like there’s a sort of forbidden knowledge aspect to the whole “maximizing artist labor time for cosmetic MTX”. The best way for cosmetic MTX to happen is to utilize extra possible labor time that couldn’t be used elsewhere. I’d love to believe that any cosmetic MTX took no time or development from any other part of the game. I’d love to believe that no amazing visual design for armor or weapons was held because its more premium appearance would better fit a paid item than a free base game one.
But you’ll never know that for sure. There will always be that inkling of cynical doubt that the cool item got a price tag and the okay one ended up in the base game. That the visual artists are so burnt making constant art for base game and then MTX that their energy couldn’t be focused solely on the core experience. I can assume, I can take the company’s word for it, but I’ll never be able to cleanse my mind of the knowledge that it’s a separate kind of content from the base game.
In another thread, someone brought up how Paradox games, while they do have tons of DLC, only advertise it on the Steam store, not any ingame ads. Would that still allow for the same kind of within-game, immersive, undistracted experience? I should maybe point out that Prey 2016 did have DLC, both for preorder bonus weapons you receive when you get to Morgan’s office, and for its Mooncrash campaign. I think it’s very possible and likely to enjoy a game like that both before, and after, having learned such things existed.
Personally, yeah, I find it much less offensive if the extra purchases do not nag you in-game and their presence is not missed or noticed in terms of affecting balance.
For example, Middle Earth Shadow of War infamously let you buy Uruks. Having played the fuck out of that game I can confidently say the game was balanced such that you never needed to do that (apart from the end game grind, but the grind is the gameplay, so if you hit end game and didnt want to grind, you just didn’t wanna keep playing), but having it appear in the menus was jarring and the idea of buying an Uruk with real money juxtaposed next to the mechanical intent of obtaining Uruks through exploration, marking, stalking, and exploiting their weaknesses just stuck out like a cynical sore thumb.
If they put the Uruk purchases outside the game with no in-game ads and I played through Shadow of War and was like “man holy shit, my Uruks cannot keep up with the curve, this is insanely grindy” and I discovered that you could buy them and skip it, I’d say thats dastardly as well.
But the happy medium would be balancing it so it wasn’t necessary, but providing an external purchase to milk that revenue if they really still wanted to. That example is moot now anyway since they eventually removed the MTX Uruks entirely.
There’s still code work going in that’s not going to get any extra money but the art work has to get extra money? I think that’s worth talking about. Is (visual, audio, etc.) art less necessary? Should it be seen that way?
Of course, some companies sell patches (DLCs that fix long-standing bugs certainly exist). Maybe there’s a kind of equality to come, code-work and art-work both getting exploited equally hard and wrung for every last cent.
Agreed. I think the poster just means games should be sold as a whole, to which I agree. Whether it’s a good game or not is a different thing entirely!
Every single F2P game with microtransaction would be better as a single-purchase game. The systems and progression used for monetization always detracts from the final result.
I say that as someone who plays Genshin Impact (much in the same way someone might have a drinking or smoking habit). The general concept of the gameplay, the aesthetics, worldbuilding and music are interesting, but it is made worse by the microtransactions. It makes the game duller that you need to grind specific missions endlessly, for retention, for levelling up and stats-boosting artifacts rather than just by general gameplay, exploring, beating monsters and doing quests. The game is balanced worse to incentive people to keep buying lootboxes to get better weapons, unlock stronger characters and unlock skills for them. There is no avoiding that because the game is structured so that it gets in your way.
I’m not against the expansion type of DLCs, and even new character if it’s priced fairly, and for a game like this to pay once, reasonably for new regions and characters would have made a vastly more fun, less tiresome game to play. It would have made it a game I would proudly recommend. But they would rather fleece thousands of dollars out of gambling addicts, so there is always a gross feeling that it is ultimately twisted and I’m a fool for getting back to it.
I have to mention the single game I know of that doesn’t follow the model. Path of Exile is completely F2P, all microtransactions are purely cosmetic. Some argue you need to purchase more stash tabs than the base four the game comes with, but I think if you’re playing enough to need more tabs, it may be worth it to buy.
For me, I wanted to supports the devs, so I have a ridiculous amount of skins, pets, and portals from supporter packs, which have no bearing on your character’s power or progress.
And there is a new league/expansion every three months for free. That’s why it’s been kicking Diablos arse for quality for years.
I keep hearing good things about Path of Exile, though its a bit too complex for me. That might be one of the rare acceptable ones.
Focusing on cosmetics is generally the least offensive way to go about it although even that has its uglier side, such as Valve’s games relying on lootboxes and profiting from the trade of rare items at exorbitant prices. Whenever random chance and lootboxes are brought up, that is still targeting players with compulsive tendencies. All digital scarcity and rarity is artificial, after all. There is no reason why they couldn’t straight up sell an unlimited amount of sparkly hats and fancy gun skins. We could dismiss this as unimportant if it doesn’t affect the core gameplay but it’s still morally dubious if a game is being funded through the exploitation of a fraction of the audience.
There is another important caveat that cosmetics are not an issue as long as that is not a significant aspect of the game. Selling cosmetics in a Diablo-like is no big deal. Including cosmetic lootboxes in, say, Animal Crossing Pocket Camp, an All Ages game largely about decoration, is absolutely egregious, because in such a game there is no separating cosmetics from gameplay.
While I agree lootboxes are shite, and was dismayed when they brought them in, you can have them turned off in PoE if you have a compulsive/gambling issue (email support and they disable the purchase). Also, anything in a lootbox goes to the shop after the league ends, so you can just purchase the item. They also give a crap tonne of skins as challenge rewards for leagues, so you always be stylin’.
As for difficulty-- it has a steep learning curve! But once you get your sea legs (and later, Path of Building; free, community run) it’s impossible to go back to something like Diablo, imo. The intricacy and constant new leagues are the only reasons I’m still playing it seven years later :)
StarCraft is also F2P cosmetic only, as far as I remember. I haven’t played in about ten years though, before they went F2P so I could be wrong.
Mech Arena is F2P with some items behind a paywall, but it’s so few that you don’t really have to worry about it. It’s honestly a very simple and fun game without any need to pay. MAYBE I’ll run into a problem a few years from now when I’m so leveled up that I’m competing against people who put hundreds of dollars into the game, but it’s pretty clear that if that becomes a problem it’s a long way off.
The F2P model can be done wrong, and it can be done right.
The systems and progression used for monetization always detracts from the final result
This, this, this! When is a company ever going to sell something and not encourage people to buy it? "Oh hey, if you wanna skip the grind you can just gimme $5 ;) " yeah sure, that grind is an important part of the game (being sarcastic here) that I’m skipping by bribing the company in charge of it.
wanders off mumbling instead of spouting more sarcasm at other forms
This is just demonstrably false. Half of the most played games might not even exist (anymore) if they were pay to play. Especially for multiplayer games, the barrier to entry means less people playing, which can mean the death of a game. The funding also means longer lasting updates, and the business model means the developers actually have a good reason to keep the game alive.
The prime example of a f2p game is Dota 2. No characters to buy, just cosmetics. Cosmetics you can get randomly by just playing, AND you can buy and sell on the second hand market for super cheap. That money has meant that the game kept getting updates and changes, all of which cost a fuckton of money.
Now, are many f2p concepts predatory? Sure, but so are trading card games marketed towards children, and nobody cared. And again, most games simply wouldn’t exist without F2P, DLC and/or microtransactions. People pretend like games “back in the day” lived forever without any DLC. That’s just not true.
You want to call it false at the same time you admit that these systems are predatory? You can’t do both at once. What you are really saying is that you believe the exploitation is worth the longevity.
If anything the cosmetics second hand market is proof that something is wrong, when people resell a skin for over a thousand dollars. No in-game item is worth that much, and people only convince themselves it is because their scarcity is controlled for financial gain.
Mind you, I said it myself DLC is fine when done properly so you are not even acknowledging the options that I’m mentioning. Games can be maintained without microtransaction. Your response isn’t even directed at me, but the vague sentiment that you get from the thread in general.
And even on their case, there is something to be said in favor of games you can host yourself indefinitely, rather than relying on company servers that are locked down to sell microtransactions. What good is a game that is updated for a few years and then is gone forever? Even the ones who supported it intently are left with nothing. That’s the fate of the majority of freemium games.
I’m thinking of all the times I’ve said, “You know what makes this game great? The microtransactions.” All ZERO times.
There are bad games and good games. Microtransactions make bad games worse AND good games worse. I intentionally only pay for games without microtransactions. THEY move the game from “I’m interested” (like with the rerelease of dungeon keeper) to “Well, I can play the OG version on GOG. Without microtransactions, I’ll do that.”
That business model ONLY works out for the business. It is NOT for the best interest of the customer.
So while what you said is right, you are incorrect.
I’ve been able to play games (and apps) for free because of microtransactions and I assume you have as well. Most of the most popular games in the world are free thanks to microtransactions and allow millions of players to enjoy great games for free.
I have purposely bought microtransactions to support the developer because I’ve enjoyed the game so much and wanted to give back. You may not have, but that’s ok.
So no, to say that microtransactions just make a game bad is a very poor understanding of the issue. It’s incredible we can play some absolutely amazing games without having to pay a cent.
Please think a bit more critically about this issue instead of a knee-jerk reaction that microtransactions are bad.
“I’ve been able to play games for free because of microtransactions”
Microtransactions cost money, that’s not free. What you are saying here is you got to play a game without supporting the devs while OTHER people paid for microtransactions.
You assume incorrectly, I support devs by buying games, not supporting microtransactions.
“Most of the most popular games in the world are free…” First, like hell. Show me stats that support a claim that MOST popular games are free. Second, if a game is supported by microtransactions, you’re lying if you say it’s free. MICROTRANSACTIONS ARE NOT FREE.
Next “I have purposely bought microtransactions to support the developer…” I support the dev by buying the game.
Microtransactions make a good game bad, and bad games worse. None of what you said made an argument for microtransactions. Microtransactions encourage devs to hide fixes behind pay walls, even small ones.
My statements weren’t kneejerk. Your nonsense obviously wasn’t even thought through as it’s internally inconsistent.
So if we go by steam charts and other factors, the most played games are f2p yes. Fortnite, csgo and dota 2 are in the top 5. The top 2 spots are f2p. So yes, those are the most popular games and this isn’t even a peak time for them and they’re far more popular than a game like bg3.
A f2p game is by definition free. That’s the choice the devs made and whether it works or not is up to how good the game is and how enticing their microtransactions are. But yes - I do not have to spend any money to play them. The game is literally free. If someone else pays for an item and gives it to you, are you going to argue the item wasn’t free? It makes no sense.
Also, so they make fortnite worse? Dota 2 worse? Cs go worse? The answer is no, it makes zero difference. But they do make excellent games free. I don’t see how you could possibly argue that those games are bad purely because they have microtransactions. That’s the issue I have with your argument as it’s illogical.
Also, microtransactions encourage devs to hide fixes behind paywalls? This is flat out wrong when it’s purely cosmetic, and in most games I think it’s also wrong. You get powercreep issues which is an issue with those sorts of games, but I think that happens in any sort of long game (thinking card games in particular like hearthstone).
I think you are just playing bad games which is the issue, or just haven’t thought this through as I said.
If someone wants to spend thousands on microtransactions for cosmetics and enjoy it, then that’s their prerogative as well. Where it’s predatory it sucks, but otherwise I’ve gone down that hole and really enjoyed spending money on cool cosmetics or to enjoy a game more for a time. When I’ve had the money it’s made good games even more enjoyable, but I still loved the base game otherwise I wouldn’t be spending money on it.
“Where it’s predatory it sucks” - The literal definition of microtransactions.
I think we’re done here. You think video gaming is what’s happened in the past ten years. I played my first video game in 1979 on an Atari 2600. I remember Pacman fever, I lived in California during it. I remember when Space Ace and Dragoons Lair came out in the arcades and cost .50 instead of a quarter…
Tell me again how I’m “just playing bad games…” You just can’t see the forest for the trees…
We were talking about microtransactions. You jumped to free to play.
Not all games that have microtransactions are fre to play.
So you’ve lied again. Not as easy you thought.
What you need to do is grab ALL games with microtransactions. You need to grab stats on ALL free games. You need to grab stats on hidden cost games (also called free to play).
I’ve definitely often said “You know what makes this game possible, alive and updated regularly even years after release? Microtransactions!” They don’t just make (some) games better, they make (some) games even possible at all.
Bought this when it was first released on beta, life got busy and it was prown to glitches since it was very incomplete. Just updated it last night and am stocked to make an attempt at a play through :)
Bought it a few weeks ago and could compare the early access version to the final version now. Not only is the game amazing and incredibly deep but also very polished. I did encounter some very minor bugs but overall, I’m completely amazed.
Chances are those glitches have been fixed. Theyve been keeping on top of the game and released 3 patches already.
Thing is though, these arent multi gigabyte patches like other games. These are straight to the point patches that are < 400MB. its awesome
This used to be the way with all games. You had one version. It was one game and everyone got the same thing. All the additional stuff is just a normalized scam.
I mean yeah but gamers keep supporting shitty companies that provide the exact opposite in record numbers so we don’t get stuff like this much anymore.
The argument of cosmetic only microtransactions is also a bit of a weak one because it’s the sort of content that would usually just be in the base game, unlockable via gameplay or tied to cheat codes. At least this used to be the case.
Cosmetic only is still better than other types but it’s still a case of the lesser of two evils.
I like the way Grinding Gear does it with POE, a FTP game supported by cosmetic-only micro transactions. The stash tabs are the closest thing to “pay to win”.
Yeah, the only reason anybody says that is because we’re so desensitized by pay-to-win mechanics and games being released half finished with day 1 dlc to fill the gaps, so we say “at least it’s better than that”
Remember horse armor? I bet there’s plenty of video games out now with cosmetic horse armor for sale.
We game for what we game for. Some people game for the cosmetics. They are selling what consumers buy. I’m not saying it’s right. But if they keep buying why wouldn’t they sell it?
What’s wrong with it? Literally every single gameplay-related item in both Dota and CSGO are free. 100%, no strings attached. You can experience the entire game and what it has to offer without spending a dime. At some point you have to charge for something. These companies aren’t making these game out of charity, they are in fact businesses. You can criticize the methods they use to push them (lootboxes, BP, etc) but I don’t see a problem with the concept.
Yeah, I like Valve but fuck those loot boxes, their tolerance of gambling, and screw that bs excuse of “it’s only cosmetic” because we know it’s not and it preys on the same insecurities and uses the same psychological tools to maximize profits using addiction.
Yes, Valve’s CS loot boxes and ignoring of the gambling sites that profit off of gamers addiction is absolutely bullshit but you’re a disingenuous troll if you think Valve is the leading offender of shitty monetization rampant in the industry.
This isn’t “gamers”. It affects pretty much everything for everyone. People these days have no backbone anymore. Everything just has to be easy and convenient and going against greedy practices is not convenient so companies can push the limits.
It’s true, you get microtransactions for everything these days. I pay a fee (technically I don’t get a discount) because I told my cell phone provider to stop sending me spam multiple times a week. I’d rather pay the couple bucks per month extra then have to deal with that bullshit.
It is fucking bullshit. Look at some vehicle manufacturers limiting their cars unless a subscription is paid. Printers. If I buy the god damned thing I should be able to use it at its full potential until I no longer want to.
Oh God printers, there was a post that made it to the frontage I think yesterday that showed a email or something from HP that stated they disabled their printer, well the ink cartridge they paid for at least, because they didn’t renew their ink subscription.
Absolutely, there’s a reason that ABK hired psychologist to work for them and you damn well know it wasn’t for them to have in house mental health services for their developers.
You’re absolutely right, complacency on behalf of the consumers is what has given rise to the trend of spending real physical money on in-game currency.
The problem with DLC, is that content is undifferentiated. Meaning things like skins, music, artwork, etc. Are in the same boat as new zones/maps, characters, equipment, etc. Publishers use FOMO by bundling cosmetics with actual ‘new’ experienceable content.
I will never understand the drones of humanity buying the same CoD game over and over. They literally remade older ones because they have no other ideas to milk their fan base. It’s horrible.
BattleBit scratched my Battlefield itch after all these years of shitty games from DICE.
Their point is that they are good because they don’t have MTX and offered a “complete” game for your money. Except that last part isn’t exactly true, since they were charging for early access of an incomplete game. EA isn’t necessarily bad, but I hate the disingenuous statement.
Their statement said nothing about giving a complete experience from day one. You cut out the central part of the whole statement which is “without the need for additional purchases”.
The whole point of the public statement is about not requiring users to spend additional money to get the whole game. It got nothing to do with early access.
I’ve actually been kinda sacred to look at it because bg1 was probably the happiest memory of my childhood, really glad to see people loving it and I’ll probably give it a go
(And yes I’m exaggerating a bit but I used to play with my grandma on her computer, she’d sit and watch and we’d chat about things and she’d take notes and stuff or suggest strategy - it was such a great game in every regard, the story and the combat were fantastic with such beautiful areas to explore… Then when 2 came out and you could load your old save and import the party you finished with as the characters you start with! It was the best thing ever
Of course now I have grown as a man, times have changed and I have changed - I feared that there would be an empty shell under such a cherished memories name but tentatively I have started to allow myself to become excited to play it, sadly my grandmother has passed but what she taught me is you can’t live in the past, she loved new things and new ideas so I’m not wanting it to be exactly the same I’m just hoping it has that same feeling of fascination and depth of its forbearers as I hope I’ve gained from mine… Certainly im very excited to try out the new mechanics and gameplay elements that have gone into it, like having sex with a man that’s transformed into a bear.
Are you just Diablo bashing because it’s in vogue? Because this is just bashing any game that does micro transactions. I don’t see how it’s specifically calling out Diablo.
Is the game actually good? Seeing a ton of hype around it, but also saw a ton of hype with Diablo 4 and Final Fantasy 16 and I thought both of those were mid at best.
If you like roleplaying games, absolutely yes. It’s way move involved than their previous games (which were also great). Divinity always felt AA at best, but the polish on BG3 is impeccable.
For me what really does it is the professional voice work and motion capture on seemingly every single sentiet humanoid character in the game. Even random folks who have a single line of dialogue have a unique voice and an interesting character design. They don’t all blend together, even when they are objectively filler characters.
D2 was maybe my favorite game. I couldn’t pay D4 more than an hour before being too bored to keep going. BG3 is capturing me though. It’s much heavier in the story and writing and less combat like a real dnd session would be. So far it’s not going to beat Pathfinder wotr for me but we’ll see
It’s very good. D4 was also really good to be fair too, minmaxers just screamed a lot online while most people just played the game. I intentionally played a fire sorc this season because these people said it’s unplayable, currently in wt4 and doing tier 20 nm dungeons with my level 65 character so those people were obviously wrong.
Depends on what you like. I’m enjoying it so far, but it’s not a casual game. It’s slow and there’s a ton of information thrown at you from the beginning in terms of game mechanics. It’s pretty overwhelming honestly, even though I’m familiar with older editions of d&d.
The turn based combat means battles can last a long time. It’s still satisfying, but it can also be a real slog sometimes.
I think a lot of people will find some of the dialogue mechanics tedious. If you want to roleplay for a certain outcome you’ll be forced to save scum because it uses on-screen dice rolls for conversation checks. But at the same time the RNG/dice system can lead to some cool, unexpected situations so I usually just go with it and enjoy the consequences, there’s a ton of freedom in this game and the writing and design is pretty clever. It does feel like a next gen RPG just because of the sheer scope of it and the huge number of options and abilities it gives you.
I’m finding the story interesting, the characters are well written, and there’s a ton of good content. It’s also gorgeous and hitting 60 fps on my laptop 3060 on ultra settings at 2k.
I’d say if you enjoy a deep/thoughtful role playing game, it’s worth trying. If you prefer a faster-paced RPG like Witcher or Dark Souls it might not be your cup of tea so watch some videos first. I definitely like it more than Diablo IV, but it’s basically a different genre entirely. It’s much, much deeper than D4.
Fair play to them, but it’s kind of crazy that just delivering an enjoyable experience for your customer is something to be lauded in the gaming industry…
I’ve never played a Baldur’s Gate game before, but I feel compelled to buy this one just to send a message to other developers that it pays to treat your fans with respect.
I kinda missed the isometric, point and click era of RPG’s because I grew up in an Apple household. So I played a lot of Warcraft 2 during that time period. Is Baldur’s Gate 3 going to be that same style of game kinda in the vein of Divinty Original Sin?
Yeah I’ve never been a fan of the point-and-click isometric mechanics, but I’ve been playing some BG3 and it’s pretty well done, I’m enjoying it. Definitely feels exactly like Divinity OS 2 but with DnD lore. Granted, I wasn’t a big DOS2 fan but that was mostly because the story tried so hard to be miserable all the time and make the player feel like shit for any decision they made. I’m not super far into BG3 but I don’t quite get that same vibe from it.
It is VERY similar to the Divinity games. It uses somewhat modified DnD 5e rules, as opposed to Divinitys’ own system (though that system took a lot of inspiration from DnD.) The RPG and world building elements will feel very familiar.
My only concern is I purchased the collectors edition and it hasnt arrived yet. Havent heard anything about delays, I thought it was supposed to be here on launch day
Not sure if Larian managed to reach out to collector’s edition owners but they said they would ship at the original August 31st release due to supply chain reasons. However the digital code to the game should have been emailed already ahead of launch.
This is the first BG game I’ve ever played, and I’m having a blast with it. So far, I can’t recommend it enough for people who like tabletops and RPGs, in general.
I’ve never played BG, DnD, and don’t really like turn based combat. This game has been incredible so far. It’s the first game in a long time where I’m thinking about it at work and excited to come home and play.
I’m generally not into turn based combat either. I think that’s why it didn’t immediately pique my interest even though I’m a die hard RPG nerd. Going to download once I have a free moment today, and I will report back!
The RPG aspect of it is exactly what brought it home for me as well! It is an insane RPG so far. The world feels so alive given how much you can fuck it up if you really wanted to.
The turn-based combat also isn’t as bad as I conjured up in my mind. I was kinda imaging the really old FF-style where enemies appear out of nowhere and you basically start a pokemon-style battle. It’s much different than that, and gets really intense when there’s a ton of enemies and you’re trying to make sure your group of 4 doesn’t get destroyed. Good luck!!
The turn based combat system that I really fell in love with, but that is now quite antiquated was the Knights of the Old Republic series. I would put these in the list of my top 5 favorite games of all time. I have played them both through many times, and they remain at the top of my list for favorite world building / lore additions from any IP. If there is any similarity between BG3 systems, and KOTOR then I imagine I will feel right at home!
BG3 is really good, it’s probably the closest to a tabletop experience as you can get with a cRPG. All they need to do is add in 20 minute side-conversations and Monty Python references and it’s golden.
It’s a shame that most game companies can’t manage to treat both their fans and staff well. It’s rare to treat even one of those well, let alone both. I wonder what the developer of BG3 is like for employees? Crunch time is usually so ubiquitous in game dev that I assume everyone does it until proven otherwise.
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This is a poor take.
You can have games without micro transactions that are trash, and f2p games with micro transactions that are great.
It’s not binary black or white and ultimately it’s the game/developer that is great, not the business model.
Refers to the text that follows it, I assume?
Hur dur what a great addition to the discussion! May as well stick to Reddit and the meme forums if you’re not going to add anything of value to the comments.
Yeah ok I guess I need to spell out that simping for micro transactions is a bad thing…
We used to have both good and bad games without microtransactions. I dont think its right to give concessions to game companies that include microtransactions just because its become so normalised.
I dont feel sorry for a game company that cant make literal billions from a game without adding a store.
They dont need billions to develop good games. Most of that profit goes straight to the top and overworked developers see very little of it.
You can have completely f2p games though that everyone can enjoy and that has microtransactions though. Then everyone can enjoy the game and if they want to spend money then do so. That was the point of my post.
It’s awful paying full price for a game with microtransactions though, that is shitty for sure.
@DingoBilly @Mr_Dr_Oink
Cosmetic only microtransactions which don’t effect gameplay should always be welcome. Look at Dota 2.
Yeah i have no issue with cosmetic stuff. But if it affects gameplay then no way
I don’t mind IAP purchases in any games but when I start up a game for the first time and the biggest for first option you see is to buy more stuff it makes me really annoyed . I just bought the game let me play it before tryung to sell me more stuff that I don’t want .
It’s more of a “are good games with microtransactions good regardless of MTX or in spite of them?”
You can totally have a good game with MTX, but I think it always lowers the quality in some way, and they’re only good in spite. I don’t think OP is suggesting that no MTX guarantees a good game, but that a game should stand on its own merits and sell its whole experience instead of chopping itself up piecemeal
A lot of games are only possible because of microtransactions. Love 'em or hate 'em, MOBAs would’ve long died without microtransactions.
I think there’s a strong possibility you’re correct, especially with that genre. When it comes to purely competitive games continual new content and adjustments keep the masses coming back, and providing those things long term with no monetization is a business suicidal idea, and I think that strong reasoning like that excuses a lot of the cynicism and bad faith behind MTX in those specific cases provided its still relatively fair.
I give you an A+ for an actual strong argument for MTX (in those and related cases)
I kind of doubt that. A lot of things like say, character skins, are done using the “leftover artist hours”, when the core programming of the game is done, but there’s a lot of tweaks and fixes going in - and the character artists are left with nothing to do. Having them make downloadable items is just another way to justify keeping those artists on the payroll.
The man-hours spent in MTX can’t necessarily easily be redirected to make more singleplayer content. Generally, if a game just doesn’t have enough content or doesn’t feel satisfying, that’s my direct criticism of it - that they didn’t do a good enough job, and it should show up in reviews too. I also generally don’t buy MTX at all, and have rarely felt I got “less than a whole entity”.
I know and understand the whole idea of maximizing artist hours for cosmetic DLC. It’s an understandable reason for it to exist.
However, the big thing about MTX to me is the way it changes my perception of the game and how it feels to interact with it. Playing games without in-game cash shops or MTX allows me to focus on the game itself and feel that what I’ve purchased is one cohesive piece that works in a singular purpose towards a goal of something enjoyable to play and rewarding to explore the content of.
Something like Prey 2016. My entire memory and experience of playing that game is absolutely nothing but the experience of the lore, atmosphere, gameplay, decisions, and the creativity of exploration. At no point was I ever passing over menu options designed to sell me more piecemeal content, I wasn’t wading through a reel of battle pass cosmetics, I wasn’t attempting to ignore little rectangular ads on the main menu asking me to check some skins out.
And again, I totally understand why those things are there and I’m not inherently against their existence, I enjoy many games where those experiences are a part. In the end, I just believe that being free of that stuff absolutely makes a game feel perceptibly better and more pure, more of a game and less of a transparently monetized product.
I also feel like there’s a sort of forbidden knowledge aspect to the whole “maximizing artist labor time for cosmetic MTX”. The best way for cosmetic MTX to happen is to utilize extra possible labor time that couldn’t be used elsewhere. I’d love to believe that any cosmetic MTX took no time or development from any other part of the game. I’d love to believe that no amazing visual design for armor or weapons was held because its more premium appearance would better fit a paid item than a free base game one.
But you’ll never know that for sure. There will always be that inkling of cynical doubt that the cool item got a price tag and the okay one ended up in the base game. That the visual artists are so burnt making constant art for base game and then MTX that their energy couldn’t be focused solely on the core experience. I can assume, I can take the company’s word for it, but I’ll never be able to cleanse my mind of the knowledge that it’s a separate kind of content from the base game.
In another thread, someone brought up how Paradox games, while they do have tons of DLC, only advertise it on the Steam store, not any ingame ads. Would that still allow for the same kind of within-game, immersive, undistracted experience? I should maybe point out that Prey 2016 did have DLC, both for preorder bonus weapons you receive when you get to Morgan’s office, and for its Mooncrash campaign. I think it’s very possible and likely to enjoy a game like that both before, and after, having learned such things existed.
Personally, yeah, I find it much less offensive if the extra purchases do not nag you in-game and their presence is not missed or noticed in terms of affecting balance.
For example, Middle Earth Shadow of War infamously let you buy Uruks. Having played the fuck out of that game I can confidently say the game was balanced such that you never needed to do that (apart from the end game grind, but the grind is the gameplay, so if you hit end game and didnt want to grind, you just didn’t wanna keep playing), but having it appear in the menus was jarring and the idea of buying an Uruk with real money juxtaposed next to the mechanical intent of obtaining Uruks through exploration, marking, stalking, and exploiting their weaknesses just stuck out like a cynical sore thumb.
If they put the Uruk purchases outside the game with no in-game ads and I played through Shadow of War and was like “man holy shit, my Uruks cannot keep up with the curve, this is insanely grindy” and I discovered that you could buy them and skip it, I’d say thats dastardly as well.
But the happy medium would be balancing it so it wasn’t necessary, but providing an external purchase to milk that revenue if they really still wanted to. That example is moot now anyway since they eventually removed the MTX Uruks entirely.
There’s still code work going in that’s not going to get any extra money but the art work has to get extra money? I think that’s worth talking about. Is (visual, audio, etc.) art less necessary? Should it be seen that way?
Of course, some companies sell patches (DLCs that fix long-standing bugs certainly exist). Maybe there’s a kind of equality to come, code-work and art-work both getting exploited equally hard and wrung for every last cent.
Agreed. I think the poster just means games should be sold as a whole, to which I agree. Whether it’s a good game or not is a different thing entirely!
i agree with you but on the flip side a $60+ game shouldn’t have macro transactions and a GaaS should not be full price.
Yeah very true on this! I’m only thinking about full f2p games with micro transactions or full games without them.
The ones in the middle are often not implemented well.
Every single F2P game with microtransaction would be better as a single-purchase game. The systems and progression used for monetization always detracts from the final result.
I say that as someone who plays Genshin Impact (much in the same way someone might have a drinking or smoking habit). The general concept of the gameplay, the aesthetics, worldbuilding and music are interesting, but it is made worse by the microtransactions. It makes the game duller that you need to grind specific missions endlessly, for retention, for levelling up and stats-boosting artifacts rather than just by general gameplay, exploring, beating monsters and doing quests. The game is balanced worse to incentive people to keep buying lootboxes to get better weapons, unlock stronger characters and unlock skills for them. There is no avoiding that because the game is structured so that it gets in your way.
I’m not against the expansion type of DLCs, and even new character if it’s priced fairly, and for a game like this to pay once, reasonably for new regions and characters would have made a vastly more fun, less tiresome game to play. It would have made it a game I would proudly recommend. But they would rather fleece thousands of dollars out of gambling addicts, so there is always a gross feeling that it is ultimately twisted and I’m a fool for getting back to it.
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I might be missing something but a cursory search shows CSGO went F2P 1.5 years before Valorants release.
I have to mention the single game I know of that doesn’t follow the model. Path of Exile is completely F2P, all microtransactions are purely cosmetic. Some argue you need to purchase more stash tabs than the base four the game comes with, but I think if you’re playing enough to need more tabs, it may be worth it to buy.
For me, I wanted to supports the devs, so I have a ridiculous amount of skins, pets, and portals from supporter packs, which have no bearing on your character’s power or progress.
And there is a new league/expansion every three months for free. That’s why it’s been kicking Diablos arse for quality for years.
I keep hearing good things about Path of Exile, though its a bit too complex for me. That might be one of the rare acceptable ones.
Focusing on cosmetics is generally the least offensive way to go about it although even that has its uglier side, such as Valve’s games relying on lootboxes and profiting from the trade of rare items at exorbitant prices. Whenever random chance and lootboxes are brought up, that is still targeting players with compulsive tendencies. All digital scarcity and rarity is artificial, after all. There is no reason why they couldn’t straight up sell an unlimited amount of sparkly hats and fancy gun skins. We could dismiss this as unimportant if it doesn’t affect the core gameplay but it’s still morally dubious if a game is being funded through the exploitation of a fraction of the audience.
There is another important caveat that cosmetics are not an issue as long as that is not a significant aspect of the game. Selling cosmetics in a Diablo-like is no big deal. Including cosmetic lootboxes in, say, Animal Crossing Pocket Camp, an All Ages game largely about decoration, is absolutely egregious, because in such a game there is no separating cosmetics from gameplay.
While I agree lootboxes are shite, and was dismayed when they brought them in, you can have them turned off in PoE if you have a compulsive/gambling issue (email support and they disable the purchase). Also, anything in a lootbox goes to the shop after the league ends, so you can just purchase the item. They also give a crap tonne of skins as challenge rewards for leagues, so you always be stylin’.
As for difficulty-- it has a steep learning curve! But once you get your sea legs (and later, Path of Building; free, community run) it’s impossible to go back to something like Diablo, imo. The intricacy and constant new leagues are the only reasons I’m still playing it seven years later :)
Ah, yes. The ““purely cosmetic”” stash tabs that are required to participate in selling items in any meaningful capacity.
I’d rather buy PoE and have the full game as intended than be nickel-and-dimed to be able to trade for gear.
StarCraft is also F2P cosmetic only, as far as I remember. I haven’t played in about ten years though, before they went F2P so I could be wrong.
Mech Arena is F2P with some items behind a paywall, but it’s so few that you don’t really have to worry about it. It’s honestly a very simple and fun game without any need to pay. MAYBE I’ll run into a problem a few years from now when I’m so leveled up that I’m competing against people who put hundreds of dollars into the game, but it’s pretty clear that if that becomes a problem it’s a long way off.
The F2P model can be done wrong, and it can be done right.
This, this, this! When is a company ever going to sell something and not encourage people to buy it? "Oh hey, if you wanna skip the grind you can just gimme $5 ;) " yeah sure, that grind is an important part of the game (being sarcastic here) that I’m skipping by bribing the company in charge of it.
wanders off mumbling instead of spouting more sarcasm at other forms
This is just demonstrably false. Half of the most played games might not even exist (anymore) if they were pay to play. Especially for multiplayer games, the barrier to entry means less people playing, which can mean the death of a game. The funding also means longer lasting updates, and the business model means the developers actually have a good reason to keep the game alive.
The prime example of a f2p game is Dota 2. No characters to buy, just cosmetics. Cosmetics you can get randomly by just playing, AND you can buy and sell on the second hand market for super cheap. That money has meant that the game kept getting updates and changes, all of which cost a fuckton of money.
Now, are many f2p concepts predatory? Sure, but so are trading card games marketed towards children, and nobody cared. And again, most games simply wouldn’t exist without F2P, DLC and/or microtransactions. People pretend like games “back in the day” lived forever without any DLC. That’s just not true.
You want to call it false at the same time you admit that these systems are predatory? You can’t do both at once. What you are really saying is that you believe the exploitation is worth the longevity.
If anything the cosmetics second hand market is proof that something is wrong, when people resell a skin for over a thousand dollars. No in-game item is worth that much, and people only convince themselves it is because their scarcity is controlled for financial gain.
Mind you, I said it myself DLC is fine when done properly so you are not even acknowledging the options that I’m mentioning. Games can be maintained without microtransaction. Your response isn’t even directed at me, but the vague sentiment that you get from the thread in general.
And even on their case, there is something to be said in favor of games you can host yourself indefinitely, rather than relying on company servers that are locked down to sell microtransactions. What good is a game that is updated for a few years and then is gone forever? Even the ones who supported it intently are left with nothing. That’s the fate of the majority of freemium games.
I’m thinking of all the times I’ve said, “You know what makes this game great? The microtransactions.” All ZERO times.
There are bad games and good games. Microtransactions make bad games worse AND good games worse. I intentionally only pay for games without microtransactions. THEY move the game from “I’m interested” (like with the rerelease of dungeon keeper) to “Well, I can play the OG version on GOG. Without microtransactions, I’ll do that.”
That business model ONLY works out for the business. It is NOT for the best interest of the customer.
So while what you said is right, you are incorrect.
I’ve been able to play games (and apps) for free because of microtransactions and I assume you have as well. Most of the most popular games in the world are free thanks to microtransactions and allow millions of players to enjoy great games for free.
I have purposely bought microtransactions to support the developer because I’ve enjoyed the game so much and wanted to give back. You may not have, but that’s ok.
So no, to say that microtransactions just make a game bad is a very poor understanding of the issue. It’s incredible we can play some absolutely amazing games without having to pay a cent.
Please think a bit more critically about this issue instead of a knee-jerk reaction that microtransactions are bad.
Okay, let’s think critically.
“I’ve been able to play games for free because of microtransactions”
Microtransactions cost money, that’s not free. What you are saying here is you got to play a game without supporting the devs while OTHER people paid for microtransactions.
You assume incorrectly, I support devs by buying games, not supporting microtransactions.
“Most of the most popular games in the world are free…” First, like hell. Show me stats that support a claim that MOST popular games are free. Second, if a game is supported by microtransactions, you’re lying if you say it’s free. MICROTRANSACTIONS ARE NOT FREE.
Next “I have purposely bought microtransactions to support the developer…” I support the dev by buying the game.
Microtransactions make a good game bad, and bad games worse. None of what you said made an argument for microtransactions. Microtransactions encourage devs to hide fixes behind pay walls, even small ones.
My statements weren’t kneejerk. Your nonsense obviously wasn’t even thought through as it’s internally inconsistent.
I look forward to you trying again.
Ok this is pretty easy lol.
So if we go by steam charts and other factors, the most played games are f2p yes. Fortnite, csgo and dota 2 are in the top 5. The top 2 spots are f2p. So yes, those are the most popular games and this isn’t even a peak time for them and they’re far more popular than a game like bg3.
A f2p game is by definition free. That’s the choice the devs made and whether it works or not is up to how good the game is and how enticing their microtransactions are. But yes - I do not have to spend any money to play them. The game is literally free. If someone else pays for an item and gives it to you, are you going to argue the item wasn’t free? It makes no sense.
Also, so they make fortnite worse? Dota 2 worse? Cs go worse? The answer is no, it makes zero difference. But they do make excellent games free. I don’t see how you could possibly argue that those games are bad purely because they have microtransactions. That’s the issue I have with your argument as it’s illogical.
Also, microtransactions encourage devs to hide fixes behind paywalls? This is flat out wrong when it’s purely cosmetic, and in most games I think it’s also wrong. You get powercreep issues which is an issue with those sorts of games, but I think that happens in any sort of long game (thinking card games in particular like hearthstone).
I think you are just playing bad games which is the issue, or just haven’t thought this through as I said.
If someone wants to spend thousands on microtransactions for cosmetics and enjoy it, then that’s their prerogative as well. Where it’s predatory it sucks, but otherwise I’ve gone down that hole and really enjoyed spending money on cool cosmetics or to enjoy a game more for a time. When I’ve had the money it’s made good games even more enjoyable, but I still loved the base game otherwise I wouldn’t be spending money on it.
“I think you’re just playing bad games…”
Like Baldur’s Gate 3?
“Where it’s predatory it sucks” - The literal definition of microtransactions.
I think we’re done here. You think video gaming is what’s happened in the past ten years. I played my first video game in 1979 on an Atari 2600. I remember Pacman fever, I lived in California during it. I remember when Space Ace and Dragoons Lair came out in the arcades and cost .50 instead of a quarter…
Tell me again how I’m “just playing bad games…” You just can’t see the forest for the trees…
There’s a problem with your starting point.
We were talking about microtransactions. You jumped to free to play.
Not all games that have microtransactions are fre to play.
So you’ve lied again. Not as easy you thought.
What you need to do is grab ALL games with microtransactions. You need to grab stats on ALL free games. You need to grab stats on hidden cost games (also called free to play).
Try again junior.
And try thinking this time.
And I’ll add the most important thing you forgot…
You have around 50 years of game data to sift through… Not just what a limited set from Steam gives you.
I’ll wait.
I’ve definitely often said “You know what makes this game possible, alive and updated regularly even years after release? Microtransactions!” They don’t just make (some) games better, they make (some) games even possible at all.
How did it happen before microtransactions?
The game’s looking great by the way
Are you referring to the genitals or more generally?
yes
Bought this when it was first released on beta, life got busy and it was prown to glitches since it was very incomplete. Just updated it last night and am stocked to make an attempt at a play through :)
Bought it a few weeks ago and could compare the early access version to the final version now. Not only is the game amazing and incredibly deep but also very polished. I did encounter some very minor bugs but overall, I’m completely amazed.
Chances are those glitches have been fixed. Theyve been keeping on top of the game and released 3 patches already. Thing is though, these arent multi gigabyte patches like other games. These are straight to the point patches that are < 400MB. its awesome
Oh this circle jerk!!! Where do I jump in to get my stroke on. Video game nerds are the absolute worst.
it’s 15.99 for you to jump in and 2000 Stroke bucks per stroke.
but you can buy 50 000 stroke bucks for just 99$ which is the best stroke for money
Sounds like the mtx is more like a little top hat for my dick too wear to the party.
Nah we’ll probably have to wait for modders to add dick suits.
Lol 👌, however your pretty little brain needs to twist it.
Ok
👌
In his defence, I must say lemmy is only working in something like r/all, and that means you’re getting lots of posts you’re not interested in.
This used to be the way with all games. You had one version. It was one game and everyone got the same thing. All the additional stuff is just a normalized scam.
Everything should be like this no only game, also software, apps, etc.
I mean yeah but gamers keep supporting shitty companies that provide the exact opposite in record numbers so we don’t get stuff like this much anymore.
We REWARD incompetence and liars by doing pre-orders and still buying games that have been reported to be buggy or full of in-app purchases, etc.
So why is anyone surprised that this shit happens?
“IT MUST BE THE NEW WAY” They thought.
And so they continued going that way.
Yeah, shitty companies like Valve with their lootbox nonsense and other gambling mechanics are really bringing the industry down.
They’re entirely cosmetic in Valve games as far as I’m aware
The argument of cosmetic only microtransactions is also a bit of a weak one because it’s the sort of content that would usually just be in the base game, unlockable via gameplay or tied to cheat codes. At least this used to be the case.
Cosmetic only is still better than other types but it’s still a case of the lesser of two evils.
I like the way Grinding Gear does it with POE, a FTP game supported by cosmetic-only micro transactions. The stash tabs are the closest thing to “pay to win”.
Yeah, the only reason anybody says that is because we’re so desensitized by pay-to-win mechanics and games being released half finished with day 1 dlc to fill the gaps, so we say “at least it’s better than that”
Remember horse armor? I bet there’s plenty of video games out now with cosmetic horse armor for sale.
We game for what we game for. Some people game for the cosmetics. They are selling what consumers buy. I’m not saying it’s right. But if they keep buying why wouldn’t they sell it?
Cosmetic-only microtransactions in Free to Play games are absolutely fine, and should be encouraged. Those games wouldn’t exist without them.
In paid games it’s a different matter though, sure.
What’s wrong with it? Literally every single gameplay-related item in both Dota and CSGO are free. 100%, no strings attached. You can experience the entire game and what it has to offer without spending a dime. At some point you have to charge for something. These companies aren’t making these game out of charity, they are in fact businesses. You can criticize the methods they use to push them (lootboxes, BP, etc) but I don’t see a problem with the concept.
Yeah, I like Valve but fuck those loot boxes, their tolerance of gambling, and screw that bs excuse of “it’s only cosmetic” because we know it’s not and it preys on the same insecurities and uses the same psychological tools to maximize profits using addiction.
Yes, Valve’s CS loot boxes and ignoring of the gambling sites that profit off of gamers addiction is absolutely bullshit but you’re a disingenuous troll if you think Valve is the leading offender of shitty monetization rampant in the industry.
This isn’t “gamers”. It affects pretty much everything for everyone. People these days have no backbone anymore. Everything just has to be easy and convenient and going against greedy practices is not convenient so companies can push the limits.
It’s true, you get microtransactions for everything these days. I pay a fee (technically I don’t get a discount) because I told my cell phone provider to stop sending me spam multiple times a week. I’d rather pay the couple bucks per month extra then have to deal with that bullshit.
It is fucking bullshit. Look at some vehicle manufacturers limiting their cars unless a subscription is paid. Printers. If I buy the god damned thing I should be able to use it at its full potential until I no longer want to.
Oh God printers, there was a post that made it to the frontage I think yesterday that showed a email or something from HP that stated they disabled their printer, well the ink cartridge they paid for at least, because they didn’t renew their ink subscription.
Bread and circuses. Rulers had it figured out millennia ago.
Because psychological manipulation is more effective than competence and honesty.
Absolutely, there’s a reason that ABK hired psychologist to work for them and you damn well know it wasn’t for them to have in house mental health services for their developers.
You’re absolutely right, complacency on behalf of the consumers is what has given rise to the trend of spending real physical money on in-game currency.
The problem with DLC, is that content is undifferentiated. Meaning things like skins, music, artwork, etc. Are in the same boat as new zones/maps, characters, equipment, etc. Publishers use FOMO by bundling cosmetics with actual ‘new’ experienceable content.
I will never understand the drones of humanity buying the same CoD game over and over. They literally remade older ones because they have no other ideas to milk their fan base. It’s horrible.
BattleBit scratched my Battlefield itch after all these years of shitty games from DICE.
Give them money
Wasn’t this game released in paid early access a while ago?
Sounds like you are missing the point completely, likely in bad faith too
Their point is that they are good because they don’t have MTX and offered a “complete” game for your money. Except that last part isn’t exactly true, since they were charging for early access of an incomplete game. EA isn’t necessarily bad, but I hate the disingenuous statement.
Their statement said nothing about giving a complete experience from day one. You cut out the central part of the whole statement which is “without the need for additional purchases”.
The whole point of the public statement is about not requiring users to spend additional money to get the whole game. It got nothing to do with early access.
I’m really glad a developer that actually cares about BG made this game. I’m not sure how much more I can take of ruined classics.
I’ve actually been kinda sacred to look at it because bg1 was probably the happiest memory of my childhood, really glad to see people loving it and I’ll probably give it a go
(And yes I’m exaggerating a bit but I used to play with my grandma on her computer, she’d sit and watch and we’d chat about things and she’d take notes and stuff or suggest strategy - it was such a great game in every regard, the story and the combat were fantastic with such beautiful areas to explore… Then when 2 came out and you could load your old save and import the party you finished with as the characters you start with! It was the best thing ever
Of course now I have grown as a man, times have changed and I have changed - I feared that there would be an empty shell under such a cherished memories name but tentatively I have started to allow myself to become excited to play it, sadly my grandmother has passed but what she taught me is you can’t live in the past, she loved new things and new ideas so I’m not wanting it to be exactly the same I’m just hoping it has that same feeling of fascination and depth of its forbearers as I hope I’ve gained from mine… Certainly im very excited to try out the new mechanics and gameplay elements that have gone into it, like having sex with a man that’s transformed into a bear.
Throwing direct shade at Diablo right here. Love to see it.
Doubt.
Are you just Diablo bashing because it’s in vogue? Because this is just bashing any game that does micro transactions. I don’t see how it’s specifically calling out Diablo.
Is the game actually good? Seeing a ton of hype around it, but also saw a ton of hype with Diablo 4 and Final Fantasy 16 and I thought both of those were mid at best.
If you like roleplaying games, absolutely yes. It’s way move involved than their previous games (which were also great). Divinity always felt AA at best, but the polish on BG3 is impeccable.
For me what really does it is the professional voice work and motion capture on seemingly every single sentiet humanoid character in the game. Even random folks who have a single line of dialogue have a unique voice and an interesting character design. They don’t all blend together, even when they are objectively filler characters.
D2 was maybe my favorite game. I couldn’t pay D4 more than an hour before being too bored to keep going. BG3 is capturing me though. It’s much heavier in the story and writing and less combat like a real dnd session would be. So far it’s not going to beat Pathfinder wotr for me but we’ll see
It’s very good. D4 was also really good to be fair too, minmaxers just screamed a lot online while most people just played the game. I intentionally played a fire sorc this season because these people said it’s unplayable, currently in wt4 and doing tier 20 nm dungeons with my level 65 character so those people were obviously wrong.
Depends on what you like. I’m enjoying it so far, but it’s not a casual game. It’s slow and there’s a ton of information thrown at you from the beginning in terms of game mechanics. It’s pretty overwhelming honestly, even though I’m familiar with older editions of d&d.
The turn based combat means battles can last a long time. It’s still satisfying, but it can also be a real slog sometimes.
I think a lot of people will find some of the dialogue mechanics tedious. If you want to roleplay for a certain outcome you’ll be forced to save scum because it uses on-screen dice rolls for conversation checks. But at the same time the RNG/dice system can lead to some cool, unexpected situations so I usually just go with it and enjoy the consequences, there’s a ton of freedom in this game and the writing and design is pretty clever. It does feel like a next gen RPG just because of the sheer scope of it and the huge number of options and abilities it gives you.
I’m finding the story interesting, the characters are well written, and there’s a ton of good content. It’s also gorgeous and hitting 60 fps on my laptop 3060 on ultra settings at 2k.
I’d say if you enjoy a deep/thoughtful role playing game, it’s worth trying. If you prefer a faster-paced RPG like Witcher or Dark Souls it might not be your cup of tea so watch some videos first. I definitely like it more than Diablo IV, but it’s basically a different genre entirely. It’s much, much deeper than D4.
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Fair play to them, but it’s kind of crazy that just delivering an enjoyable experience for your customer is something to be lauded in the gaming industry…
It depends on wether or not the games free. I’m guessing it’s been paid for.
I’ve never played a Baldur’s Gate game before, but I feel compelled to buy this one just to send a message to other developers that it pays to treat your fans with respect.
Man, BG games are really some of the best! Give it a play!
Indeed. Minsc and Boo stand ready!
I kinda missed the isometric, point and click era of RPG’s because I grew up in an Apple household. So I played a lot of Warcraft 2 during that time period. Is Baldur’s Gate 3 going to be that same style of game kinda in the vein of Divinty Original Sin?
Yeah I’ve never been a fan of the point-and-click isometric mechanics, but I’ve been playing some BG3 and it’s pretty well done, I’m enjoying it. Definitely feels exactly like Divinity OS 2 but with DnD lore. Granted, I wasn’t a big DOS2 fan but that was mostly because the story tried so hard to be miserable all the time and make the player feel like shit for any decision they made. I’m not super far into BG3 but I don’t quite get that same vibe from it.
Yep, it feels very much like a dndified version of divinity original sin 2
I will have to go watch more of the gameplay on YouTube. I’m not entirely sure what the addition of DND mechanics do to change the gameplay loop.
Dice rolls and punishes out of character choices, seems like
I’ve played both casually (BG3) in early access. The ruleset is quite different IMO
Yes! It’s the same developer as Divinity.
The games don’t play exactly the same, but they are the same style.
It’s basically Divinity: DnD Edition.
It is VERY similar to the Divinity games. It uses somewhat modified DnD 5e rules, as opposed to Divinitys’ own system (though that system took a lot of inspiration from DnD.) The RPG and world building elements will feel very familiar.
My only concern is I purchased the collectors edition and it hasnt arrived yet. Havent heard anything about delays, I thought it was supposed to be here on launch day
Not sure if Larian managed to reach out to collector’s edition owners but they said they would ship at the original August 31st release due to supply chain reasons. However the digital code to the game should have been emailed already ahead of launch.
Dont forget that launch day was moved forward a month. And unfortunately I dont think that affected the physical things.
Pretty sure I played it on PC in like 1994
This is the first BG game I’ve ever played, and I’m having a blast with it. So far, I can’t recommend it enough for people who like tabletops and RPGs, in general.
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I’ve never played BG, DnD, and don’t really like turn based combat. This game has been incredible so far. It’s the first game in a long time where I’m thinking about it at work and excited to come home and play.
I’m generally not into turn based combat either. I think that’s why it didn’t immediately pique my interest even though I’m a die hard RPG nerd. Going to download once I have a free moment today, and I will report back!
The RPG aspect of it is exactly what brought it home for me as well! It is an insane RPG so far. The world feels so alive given how much you can fuck it up if you really wanted to.
The turn-based combat also isn’t as bad as I conjured up in my mind. I was kinda imaging the really old FF-style where enemies appear out of nowhere and you basically start a pokemon-style battle. It’s much different than that, and gets really intense when there’s a ton of enemies and you’re trying to make sure your group of 4 doesn’t get destroyed. Good luck!!
The turn based combat system that I really fell in love with, but that is now quite antiquated was the Knights of the Old Republic series. I would put these in the list of my top 5 favorite games of all time. I have played them both through many times, and they remain at the top of my list for favorite world building / lore additions from any IP. If there is any similarity between BG3 systems, and KOTOR then I imagine I will feel right at home!
BG3 is really good, it’s probably the closest to a tabletop experience as you can get with a cRPG. All they need to do is add in 20 minute side-conversations and Monty Python references and it’s golden.
It’s a shame that most game companies can’t manage to treat both their fans and staff well. It’s rare to treat even one of those well, let alone both. I wonder what the developer of BG3 is like for employees? Crunch time is usually so ubiquitous in game dev that I assume everyone does it until proven otherwise.