I was upset when Epic acquired Rocket League and drove it into the ground, and then I was pissed when Epic paid for exclusivity on ubisoft games. I bought one game on Epic game stores app two years ago and have since claimed every free game they offer every week whether I care to play it or not. I have also repurchased that game on Steam, so literally the only time I even open epic games is to claim the weekly free game and cost them money.
I don’t LIKE the epic games store, but it is kind of fucking strange, that valve is a company whose literal monopoly is not only not questioned, but specifically celebrated.
Epic has exclusivity on all Ubisoft games? I stopped buying Ubi games years ago, so I guess that’s fine with me. I hope Ubisoft loses money on that deal.
I have no idea why this is newsworthy. Epic’s own 2019 documents and testimony in the Apple trial showed that the company did not expect the store to be profitable until 2024 or even 2027. The strategy of heavy investment and operating at a loss to turn a profit later worked for Spotify, Netflix, Microsoft, and many others. Even this week, there are headlines like “Elon Musk Says SpaceX’s Starlink Achieves Breakeven Cash Flow”.
You can’t deny that Epic taking 12% revolutionized the industry, with Microsoft following suit and even Valve making some small changes. As Gabe himself said on the competition, “it keeps [them] honest”. That’s a win for game creators.
For the gamers, we got many free games and I think the Epic freebies inspired Microsoft to offer similar deals with Game Pass, Amazon with Prime, and even GOG recently gave away a pretty notable game, Blacksad, which was uncharacteristic in relation to their past giveaways.
Never bought anything there and probably never will, but I’m always there every thursday to get the free games.
Heavy gog and steam user, and gamepass subscriber.
On one hand, thanks to the nonstop giveaways, I have way more games on Epic than I do on Steam, so I have a reason to continue using Epic.
On the other hand, Epic’s launcher runs like shit, constantly refreshes my library page, slow as hell, glitchy as hell, and makes me feel dirty when I use it.
Steam is just so cozy and is on the whole a much more enjoyable PC gaming experience. I imagine 95% of Epic users are people like me: sign in on Thursdays for the free game and then bounce.
I talked to their support about the library force refresh and it’s apparently intended. That library refresh is literally the only reason the EGS isn’t open all the time like Steam is. Random data usage is bad, and can fuck off. I do not need random lag spikes.
thanks to the nonstop giveaways, I have way more games on Epic than I do on Steam
I still have more games on Steam, however, Itch.io has had a couple of insane bundles in the last couple of years, which mean I have way more games and content on Itch than on Steam, which I did not see coming. I still use Steam the most, though, because I’m used to their interface and it works really well on Linux.
Only way epic can compete, even with bloody ubisoft launcher, is to remove competition. Improving their store just isnt part of their business plan, if it was they would do it.
Well they’re not gonna cut top salaries, can’t have any of that, it’s bad for business!! Imagine being able to only afford one yacht instead of your standard three! Gotta let those lackeys at the bottom of the pyramid go, what’re they even holding up, anyway? The foundation of the company? Surely not.
Shocking literally no one, the game store that took a shot at the king with store that (initially) didn’t have baseline stuff like reviews and a cart, and tried to get by on giving away product and paying a bunch of money to make stuff exclusive isn’t doing so hot financially.
My launcher shows that I have 379 games from Epic. Not DLC, not demos. Full games.
I have never given Epic a single cent and I never will. (That is to say, until they offer me something that makes me want to use their platform). They have no killer features - AT ALL.
The “killer feature” is that they pay more to the developers, so if you are getting the exact same game on (e.g.) Steam versus Epic Games, then whomever actually made the game gets more money from the Epic sale. Isn’t that a good thing?
(Note that I may be conflating the publisher with the developer, but either way, it’s still the case that less money is taken by intermediaries, which is a good thing.)
Except they only do that because its the only way to get publishers to use them over steam, and once they have a reliable customer base they will reneg on that generosity to gain profit.
We know this business strategy. It will not stay that way.
this is how we get companies like walmart and amazon.
they roll in, throwing bags of money into a bottomless pit as long as it takes to amass a large customer base and ruin existing competitors. Then they start enshittifying, and everyone wonders where all the competition went.
Until then, what? You as the consumer have no incentive to use their worse service, and publishers clearly arent that enticed by it for how few exclusives the store gets?
Or until then, you want to reward a bait and switch that you know is a bait and switch to try and trick you into using a worse product?
And are those because Steam is trying to pressure them into being exclusive on Steam? Or did they just not bother releasing anywhere else?
If a developer just wants to release on Epic and nowhere else they can do that. My issue comes from Epic approaching games that have already announced a Steam release asking for exclusivity, and having no interest in hosting the game if they don’t accept the exclusivity offer.
No, because epic has been engaging in anti consumer practices from the start. This is literally the only category epic has a leg up on steam, and if they didn’t need to bully their way into the marketplace, I have no reason to believe they’d treat creators any better than they currently do customers
edit: The revelation that they are running the store at a loss just furthers me not believing they are helping developers from the goodness of their heart, it shows they’re likely running the Walmart strategy of using their vast wealth to choke out their competition until there is none, and then once they have a monopoly, jack everything up, which’d probably include their cut of the pie
To make it worse, I have all these games, but I still rarely play them. Not that it’s a bad selection, but between steamdeck, gamepass and just a crazy backlog on Steam makes me rarely think of Epic store.
That’s disingenuous. The games have controller support, as you’d expect them to. EGS itself doesn’t have an outside-the-games input layer like Steam Input.
But you can always load up an EGS game in Steam as a non-Steam game and have full access to Steam Input on it that way, so why would Epic spend time and effort re-inventing the wheel when they have other priorities?
But you can always load up an EGS game in Steam as a non-Steam game and have full access to Steam Input on it that way, so why would Epic spend time and effort re-inventing the wheel when they have other priorities?
Why would Epic implement a feature when I could just run Epic games through Steam? Why don’t I just use Steam then?
But… If I am gonna buy the game elsewhere and then port it into steam, for no discount… Why not just buy it on steam, and not bother with the extra steps?
And by that I mean, it sounds like a waste of time to buy from epic, since I get more features for the same price elsewhere. So whats such an important priority?
More accurately: the games have support for Xbox styled controllers, because Windows ships with support for that. However, they usually don’t have support for PlayStation controllers unless the game actively adds support for them, or Steam Input deals with converting the controller inputs to Xbox format on the fly. Most of the time, Epic exclusives do neither of the above.
Hey man, it provided value to my life… its a fun game, i play it quite a bit. Plus half of that was for my kid, he would ask for vbucks every birthday and Christmas for years.
I have a crazy idea for Epic. Instead of paying a fortune for exclusives, leverage the lower 12% cut and have game publishers sell for less (so that the publisher makes the same amount on Steam and Epic)
Example Nike sales shoes directly at the same price as footlocker. Why dont they under cut footlocker? They have a contracts that says they won’t under cut footlocker
There could br an issue like that but well you can make new contracts
If the developer chooses to do so themselves then it’s likely ok, but forcing the developer to do so likely violates some sort of law.
I imagine that when Epic instituted it’s lower percentage they hoped that developers would sell exclusively on their platform for higher profits. Instead the developers decided to sell on both platforms and just make a larger percentage on the Epic sales. From the developer perspective it would have been wise in the long run to lower prices so that Epic could grow, but that hurts their short term profits and also stymied Epic’s potential.
If Epic’s store grew to truly rival Steam more developers might have jumped ship, but to do so prematurely would be losing a large portion of the potential customers.
Ultimately Epic had to develop a full Steam clone quickly while all Steam had to do was not suck for the end user.
Well it shouldn’t be at a loss. As the person I responded to pointed out, Epic had a lower fee than Steam so the developer can sell on Epic for less than they would on Steam and make the same amount of money.
Doing so wouldn’t be at a loss, but it wouldn’t make as much profit as possible.
If the developers did choose to sell on Epic for less than it would bolster the Epic store and potentially lead to more people moving to Epic.
If Steam’s fee is 30% and Epic’s is 15% the developer could sell on Steam for $70 and make $49 and they could sell on Epic for $60 to make $51. That’s a 4% increase in profits.
If the Epic store takes off and a large enough user base switches they could maybe increase the Epic price to $62.5 which would result in an additional 4% increase in profits.
Epic’s deal is that they’re offering a lower rate, but the developers aren’t sharing the benefits of that to help Epic grow. If they did the long term profits would likely exceed the short term.
Again, why would the developer care about making Epic grow? It’s the store’s responsibility to offer good service, you don’t see Nintendo trying to help out Target or anything like that now do ya?
That only applies to the steam keys valve supplies to developers that have a 0% cut.
Also doing regional pricing would be a massive headache if that were true due to different stores having different recommended price conversions.
doing regional pricing would be a massive headache if that were true
Aren’t games regionally priced like forever ? I’ve buying key’s in GB because they are cheaper. Also Doesn’t steam lock you out of your games if you bought US version and travel to the other side of the world? I just vaguely remember people complaining about it.
The claim specifically mentions Epic and quotes a Valve employee who made statements to the effect of it being prohibited, irrespective of whether a Steam key is involved. Read from page 47 and pay attention to the last paragraphs of page 55.
I mean, it’s trying to compete against Steam. A platform which has 99% of the games ever released on PC after its inception at the same price and with a great interface.
You’re not winning against that unless you actually sell the same games at a lower price (and I don’t think they can afford to do that)
Also you can’t trust epic. They have been caught scraping user data and they negotiate shitty deals which actually harm users on the PC platform overall. Fuck epic.
It would help if their service itself wasn’t just objectively worse, but they’re not even trying to compete on quality. Their only selling points are free games and platform exclusives. It’s like they haven’t even tried to actually make a better service.
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I was upset when Epic acquired Rocket League and drove it into the ground, and then I was pissed when Epic paid for exclusivity on ubisoft games. I bought one game on Epic game stores app two years ago and have since claimed every free game they offer every week whether I care to play it or not. I have also repurchased that game on Steam, so literally the only time I even open epic games is to claim the weekly free game and cost them money.
I don’t LIKE the epic games store, but it is kind of fucking strange, that valve is a company whose literal monopoly is not only not questioned, but specifically celebrated.
If you want to fight the monopoly, go with a good alternative like GOG Galaxy. This article is about Epic, hence the preference for Steam.
Yeah cuz they doing it right
For now… Except for all the showelware, and OS support of “the current” one…
Epic has exclusivity on all Ubisoft games? I stopped buying Ubi games years ago, so I guess that’s fine with me. I hope Ubisoft loses money on that deal.
I wish I had an adblock for the epic launcher.
Just use the Heroic launcher
I have no idea why this is newsworthy. Epic’s own 2019 documents and testimony in the Apple trial showed that the company did not expect the store to be profitable until 2024 or even 2027. The strategy of heavy investment and operating at a loss to turn a profit later worked for Spotify, Netflix, Microsoft, and many others. Even this week, there are headlines like “Elon Musk Says SpaceX’s Starlink Achieves Breakeven Cash Flow”.
But all the other companies had in mind something else besides “gotta beat the other guys” and actually brought something to the table.
You can’t deny that Epic taking 12% revolutionized the industry, with Microsoft following suit and even Valve making some small changes. As Gabe himself said on the competition, “it keeps [them] honest”. That’s a win for game creators.
For the gamers, we got many free games and I think the Epic freebies inspired Microsoft to offer similar deals with Game Pass, Amazon with Prime, and even GOG recently gave away a pretty notable game, Blacksad, which was uncharacteristic in relation to their past giveaways.
Pretty sure all those were offering games with their subscriptions long before Epic store was a thing.
But, on the other hand, every other thing they did outweighs the rest - exclusivity, shitty launcher, and spyware.
I am also not sure if any game given away by Amazon Prime really interested me at all.
Spotify has never turned a profit, at least not yearly.
That could be true, making it an even stronger argument.
Never bought anything there and probably never will, but I’m always there every thursday to get the free games. Heavy gog and steam user, and gamepass subscriber.
Haha
Whether its games stores or streaming services, the media seems to constantly miss the obvious, lack of accounted profits means no tax to pay…
that’s also called tax evasion
No… No, that’s not tax evasion.
On one hand, thanks to the nonstop giveaways, I have way more games on Epic than I do on Steam, so I have a reason to continue using Epic.
On the other hand, Epic’s launcher runs like shit, constantly refreshes my library page, slow as hell, glitchy as hell, and makes me feel dirty when I use it.
Steam is just so cozy and is on the whole a much more enjoyable PC gaming experience. I imagine 95% of Epic users are people like me: sign in on Thursdays for the free game and then bounce.
Valve has not optimized big library, so me with 4k games and good computer but Steam performs like PoS.
Have you tried Heroic Games Launcher?
I know about its existence, but I’m not sure how safe is it as a way to prevent Epic (and potentially Tencent) from tracking my personal information.
I talked to their support about the library force refresh and it’s apparently intended. That library refresh is literally the only reason the EGS isn’t open all the time like Steam is. Random data usage is bad, and can fuck off. I do not need random lag spikes.
I still have more games on Steam, however, Itch.io has had a couple of insane bundles in the last couple of years, which mean I have way more games and content on Itch than on Steam, which I did not see coming. I still use Steam the most, though, because I’m used to their interface and it works really well on Linux.
they have no excuse for it to be slow as shit
Only way epic can compete, even with bloody ubisoft launcher, is to remove competition. Improving their store just isnt part of their business plan, if it was they would do it.
Doesn’t need to be profitable, when they’re just rolling around in Fortnite money wondering what to spend it on.
then why they layoff like 10% of their staff recently?
Because they’re greedy?
because profit + 10% of salary > profit
Everyone (in big tech at least) has. Just didn’t want to feel left out.
Shouldn’t have bought Mediatonic either.
It’s the hip new tech company trend to help keep wages and salaries down.
Well they’re not gonna cut top salaries, can’t have any of that, it’s bad for business!! Imagine being able to only afford one yacht instead of your standard three! Gotta let those lackeys at the bottom of the pyramid go, what’re they even holding up, anyway? The foundation of the company? Surely not.
Shocking literally no one, the game store that took a shot at the king with store that (initially) didn’t have baseline stuff like reviews and a cart, and tried to get by on giving away product and paying a bunch of money to make stuff exclusive isn’t doing so hot financially.
My launcher shows that I have 379 games from Epic. Not DLC, not demos. Full games.
I have never given Epic a single cent and I never will. (That is to say, until they offer me something that makes me want to use their platform). They have no killer features - AT ALL.
The “killer feature” is that they pay more to the developers, so if you are getting the exact same game on (e.g.) Steam versus Epic Games, then whomever actually made the game gets more money from the Epic sale. Isn’t that a good thing?
(Note that I may be conflating the publisher with the developer, but either way, it’s still the case that less money is taken by intermediaries, which is a good thing.)
Except they only do that because its the only way to get publishers to use them over steam, and once they have a reliable customer base they will reneg on that generosity to gain profit.
We know this business strategy. It will not stay that way.
Quite likely, but until then…
this is how we get companies like walmart and amazon.
they roll in, throwing bags of money into a bottomless pit as long as it takes to amass a large customer base and ruin existing competitors. Then they start enshittifying, and everyone wonders where all the competition went.
No, Steam are the monopoly now! The only other option is Good Old Games and for weird indie titles Itch.io.
Until then, what? You as the consumer have no incentive to use their worse service, and publishers clearly arent that enticed by it for how few exclusives the store gets?
Or until then, you want to reward a bait and switch that you know is a bait and switch to try and trick you into using a worse product?
Which option are you excited about here?
Their service is in no way worse: I buy games, and I get them.
I’m excited about the fact that someone provides an alternative to the monopoly that is Steam.
… The ability to purchase is not the only aspect of a stores service
It’s all I need: I buy a game, I download and play it. I don’t need anything else.
However because of their 40% ownership, you’re ALSO giving more money to Tencent.
Wait tencent has ownership of epic games?
Yes
Yikes. Good point.
You think?
Yes, I do, or else I wouldn’t have mentioned it. I’d prefer the publisher gets money over a middleman store. Isn’t that preferable?
Its a phrase that signals something else, and not a literal content reply.
How about you write what you mean and have quality conversation in the future?
I did. Its a standard phrase used by people in conversation. See defintion #2 below.
Below definition is from here …
Quality is in the eye of the beholder, apparently. /shrug
If you did, then I answered the genuine question you asked.
That’s a reason for developers to use them, not for consumers to use them.
EPICs anti-customer practices (such as trying to make everything exclusive) are reasons for consumers not to use them.
There are tens of thousands of Steam-exclusive games: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_games_exclusive_to_Steam
What is the alternative to Steam?
And are those because Steam is trying to pressure them into being exclusive on Steam? Or did they just not bother releasing anywhere else?
If a developer just wants to release on Epic and nowhere else they can do that. My issue comes from Epic approaching games that have already announced a Steam release asking for exclusivity, and having no interest in hosting the game if they don’t accept the exclusivity offer.
There are almost 40,000 entries, I obviously cannot answer for all of them.
Still waiting for you to answer my question.
Well you sound like someone trying to have a good faith discussion and attempting to continue would be a good use of my time.
No, because epic has been engaging in anti consumer practices from the start. This is literally the only category epic has a leg up on steam, and if they didn’t need to bully their way into the marketplace, I have no reason to believe they’d treat creators any better than they currently do customers
edit: The revelation that they are running the store at a loss just furthers me not believing they are helping developers from the goodness of their heart, it shows they’re likely running the Walmart strategy of using their vast wealth to choke out their competition until there is none, and then once they have a monopoly, jack everything up, which’d probably include their cut of the pie
To make it worse, I have all these games, but I still rarely play them. Not that it’s a bad selection, but between steamdeck, gamepass and just a crazy backlog on Steam makes me rarely think of Epic store.
Well that’s at the crux of it, indeed. Steam has these killer features that enable and empower me as a gamer.
Then there’s Epic that still doesn’t have controller support.
Wait, what? No controller support?
That’s disingenuous. The games have controller support, as you’d expect them to. EGS itself doesn’t have an outside-the-games input layer like Steam Input.
But you can always load up an EGS game in Steam as a non-Steam game and have full access to Steam Input on it that way, so why would Epic spend time and effort re-inventing the wheel when they have other priorities?
Why would Epic implement a feature when I could just run Epic games through Steam? Why don’t I just use Steam then?
Maybe the game was free on EGS but not on Steam?
So still not an argument for giving Epic any of my money.
Ok cool that makes way more sense.
But… If I am gonna buy the game elsewhere and then port it into steam, for no discount… Why not just buy it on steam, and not bother with the extra steps?
And by that I mean, it sounds like a waste of time to buy from epic, since I get more features for the same price elsewhere. So whats such an important priority?
More accurately: the games have support for Xbox styled controllers, because Windows ships with support for that. However, they usually don’t have support for PlayStation controllers unless the game actively adds support for them, or Steam Input deals with converting the controller inputs to Xbox format on the fly. Most of the time, Epic exclusives do neither of the above.
I spent about $600 with epic. All of that was on fortnite skins. None of it on games.
Just wow
Hey man, it provided value to my life… its a fun game, i play it quite a bit. Plus half of that was for my kid, he would ask for vbucks every birthday and Christmas for years.
LoL. Yeah I’ve got a ton and I’ve never actually launched a single one
I recently played hitman 3 with Lutris on Kubuntu in Epicstore.
Sync was working well. Game was running well.
It is not Steam (which has a native Linux installation), but at least it works.
If the price is the same I go with steam, if epic is much cheaper I go with epic.
Lucky you, that you managed to make Epic run properly over Linux!
It was really straightforward to be honest. But I did it 2 weeks ago.
Maybe 6-12 months ago was more difficult.
I installed Lutris I opened it, then installed epic store Then I logged in and installed hitman.
To play I have to open lutris > epic store > hitman 3.
I have a crazy idea for Epic. Instead of paying a fortune for exclusives, leverage the lower 12% cut and have game publishers sell for less (so that the publisher makes the same amount on Steam and Epic)
And GOG. They used to have several games up there, and then delisted them.
Publishers sets their own prices though.
So why can’t they sell their game for $56 on Epic and $70 on Steam? They’d make about the same money per sale on each?
Most likely reason, contracts.
Example Nike sales shoes directly at the same price as footlocker. Why dont they under cut footlocker? They have a contracts that says they won’t under cut footlocker
There could br an issue like that but well you can make new contracts
But price disparities already exist in other places sometimes. Like YT premium using the App store (due to the 30% cut) and everywhere else.
it depends on what the contracts say
Are you seriously asking why a company in a capitalist economy would keep more money for themselves?
If the developer chooses to do so themselves then it’s likely ok, but forcing the developer to do so likely violates some sort of law.
I imagine that when Epic instituted it’s lower percentage they hoped that developers would sell exclusively on their platform for higher profits. Instead the developers decided to sell on both platforms and just make a larger percentage on the Epic sales. From the developer perspective it would have been wise in the long run to lower prices so that Epic could grow, but that hurts their short term profits and also stymied Epic’s potential.
If Epic’s store grew to truly rival Steam more developers might have jumped ship, but to do so prematurely would be losing a large portion of the potential customers.
Ultimately Epic had to develop a full Steam clone quickly while all Steam had to do was not suck for the end user.
Why would the developer sell at a loss to help Epic out? What’s in it for the developer?
Epic paid $146 to make borderlands exclusive to epic. The game kind of flopped.
Completely untrue. It was a major success and brought record numbers of new customers to the store, which is the main metric pursued by Epic.
Well it shouldn’t be at a loss. As the person I responded to pointed out, Epic had a lower fee than Steam so the developer can sell on Epic for less than they would on Steam and make the same amount of money.
Doing so wouldn’t be at a loss, but it wouldn’t make as much profit as possible.
If the developers did choose to sell on Epic for less than it would bolster the Epic store and potentially lead to more people moving to Epic.
If Steam’s fee is 30% and Epic’s is 15% the developer could sell on Steam for $70 and make $49 and they could sell on Epic for $60 to make $51. That’s a 4% increase in profits.
If the Epic store takes off and a large enough user base switches they could maybe increase the Epic price to $62.5 which would result in an additional 4% increase in profits.
Epic’s deal is that they’re offering a lower rate, but the developers aren’t sharing the benefits of that to help Epic grow. If they did the long term profits would likely exceed the short term.
Again, why would the developer care about making Epic grow? It’s the store’s responsibility to offer good service, you don’t see Nintendo trying to help out Target or anything like that now do ya?
I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or if you really don’t understand. If you don’t understand I’d be happy to elaborate.
Valve prohibit that, according to the lawsuit filed by Wolfire Games.
That only applies to the steam keys valve supplies to developers that have a 0% cut. Also doing regional pricing would be a massive headache if that were true due to different stores having different recommended price conversions.
What do you mean by this?
Aren’t games regionally priced like forever ? I’ve buying key’s in GB because they are cheaper. Also Doesn’t steam lock you out of your games if you bought US version and travel to the other side of the world? I just vaguely remember people complaining about it.
No and no.
The time lock lasts 3 months, not forever.
I’m pretty much sure that they had 60$ = 60€ kind of regional prices.
The claim specifically mentions Epic and quotes a Valve employee who made statements to the effect of it being prohibited, irrespective of whether a Steam key is involved. Read from page 47 and pay attention to the last paragraphs of page 55.
There’s no way that can be legal. I generally support Valve but that is monopolistic as hell.
Well yeah, of course it isn’t profitable, when it’s damn near malicious in how they treat their customers it’s not surprising.
I mean, it’s trying to compete against Steam. A platform which has 99% of the games ever released on PC after its inception at the same price and with a great interface.
You’re not winning against that unless you actually sell the same games at a lower price (and I don’t think they can afford to do that)
Also you can’t trust epic. They have been caught scraping user data and they negotiate shitty deals which actually harm users on the PC platform overall. Fuck epic.
It would help if their service itself wasn’t just objectively worse, but they’re not even trying to compete on quality. Their only selling points are free games and platform exclusives. It’s like they haven’t even tried to actually make a better service.
So like xbox and Xbox live but without the Xbox lol