1/ Dear @MarathonTheGame graphic design lovers.
It is time for me to burn some bridges.
Because thanks to @4nt1r34l daily posters stolen and put as textures in the game and many other assets utilized, you have created AntirealTheGame.
@Bungie @josephacross
Bungie has issued an official statement, they are throwing an artist under the bus and pledging to make it right with the original artist.
It’s definitely a really bad look, but I can imagine how it could have happened.
A former artist or even an outsourced artist probably delivered them a texture sheet of graphics, nobody caught that several of the graphics were plaigerized, the artist never mentioned it, assumed it was purely for a blockout or temporary, maybe they used it during a mood boarding/visual development stage and it got pushed along the pipeline.
Trying to reverse search graphics your artists make for you would probably not be done in the good faith sense, if there wasn’t suspicion that it wasn’t original anyways? But happening four times seems like a reason to really crack down on that kind of thing for the future … Bungies management has also constantly had issues too.
Artists use photobashing all the time to develop concepts since timelines push design work faster and faster. Photobashing other artists work is usually an issue but taking images or conepts within creative liberties through sufficient alteration or “transformative” use is typically the move if it was ever done.
I’d call it a management issue. Probably bad oversight of outsourcing, or maybe internally disorganized production. Also text and graphics seems like they’d probably have vetted the designs and someone really tried to pass it off without raising attention somehow … So I’m guessing outsourced and not an internal employee? Idk.
I don’t think that matters. This is likely a decision handed down by upper management. And that’s what makes it depressing; what could’ve continued to be some of the greatest creators of Sci-Fi video games instead have mismanaged their talent and shot both their feet off.
How is Bungie still in business? I loved destiny but after a while of them being so hostile and anti-consumer I just left. Fuck Bungie and fuck whoever works for those ass hats
Yeah but that Marathon was innovative, looked good, and was fun to play. That would never work in this day and age. Also I think the only thing that same about the two is the name.
It’s hilariously awful because, as a fan of the original Marathon trilogy, the aesthetic of the new game is the only thing that appealed to me; and it was stolen.
I have no interest in an extraction shooter. You can make an extraction shooter if you want, but you gotta make something that players can get emotionally invested in first. Original Marathon players won’t recognize this and new players won’t care so what was the fucking point of any of this, I’m going crazy. This industry has lost all direction
They did steal artwork, but the whole aesthetic wasn’t stolen… the stuff they stole is a very small part of the game (I’m pretty sure, haven’t and won’t play it).
I’m in no way defending them, but saying the whole aesthetic was stolen just because they used some text and icons from someone istället just dumb.
Every game’s style is inspired by something else. For example, Sable has a great style, but it’s largely inspired by Moebius (the artist), and that’s OK, and actually encouraged.
There is nothing in this world that is not inspired by previous experiences.
I was hoping it was gonna be a clever, fun story shooter like the original. But it just sounds like a reskinned Helldivers with no connection to the original besides the name.
Luckily classic Marathon is available on Steam for free.
OK, criticism is fine, but reskined Helldivers? It’s nothing like Helldivers. It’s an extraction shooter, with a focus on PvP.
I guess Helldivers is a shooter where you extract, but it isn’t an extraction shooter. Extraction shooters are like Escape from Tarkov, Gray Zone, and the upcoming ARC Raiders. They’re about entering a game with items, collecting loot, and leaving. If you die you lose everything you brought. Nothing like Helldivers.
Nope. I don’t really know why they decided to do this, but it does use the existing lore. The Phor are going to be involved, and a bunch of other Marathon stuff is going to be used. It’s almost the exact opposite game mode of what Marathon was though.
I’m just spitballing, but the ip owner needs to do something with the ip so they can keep it? IIRC similar things have been mentioned here and there when some long forgotten ip suddenly gets a new loweffort installment.
So, could be that they were making the extraction shooty anyway, so they slapped Marathon on it “just to refresh the timer”? I dunno if that’s how it works, not a lawyer.
Calling this a Marathon game makes no sense, and I don’t just mean aesthetically. The business case can’t possibly be there, either.
Anyone who has a nostalgic attachment to Marathon (👋) won’t be interested in this new game, and anyone interested in this new game probably doesn’t care about the name “Marathon.”
On top of that, there’s the fact that Marathon kind of looked like Halo. When Bungie made Halo, they were clearly taking after their own art style from their previous games. Which means Bungie could have announced that they’re making a singleplayer first person shooter that kind of looks like Halo. Everyone would have lost their minds. Instead, they announced yet another live service game, and no one is interested.
The implication that generative AI would spit out pixel-for-pixel copies from its training data is flat out wrong. Even generative AI would have made more original assets than what Bungie put in Marathon. The worst part is that this is like the 4th time they’ve been caught doing this.
Being inspired by an art style and using that style is fine, and completely normal. Thats how art works. But copying and pasting 1 for 1 is not fine.
I agree but it can get pretty close. Try asking gpt-4o to generate a realistic picture of an adventure who wears a hat and wields a whip to find lost treasure. It returns basically a picture of Harrison Ford
There’s nothing wrong with inspiration (attribution is nice), but what’s evident is they straight up LIFTED parts of antireal’s art into in-game assets.
Love the response. Very CYA and they’re called out on it by multiple people:
hi, tell legal to reply to my email from months ago.
i simply can’t believe you’re thanking anyone “for bringing this to our attention” just because it went viral.
what about all the times i’ve directly contacted you privately about using my work? why should i have to hurt your brand to be heard?
So, we had some unknown outsource companies at fault for plagiarizing previously and now unknown former empleyee? How convenient! Surely the fact that art director and other marathon artists follow her means nothing.
I really wish i could buy that this was actually just an overeager artist who got laid off to pay for pete parsons’ 80th classic car but not only is this the 4th time this has happened, joseph cross was following and clearly aware of antireal. yall knew and fully intended on getting away with it
Honestly, at this point the company should be dismantled and the leadership thrown in prison. These corporate edgelords wont learn. They will just overstep, inch by inch and the courts will understate their deeds over and over until there is only one company that rules the world and sell you your fucking liver by the minute.
Listen, I want to dismantle a LOT of companies that are a thousand times bigger than this.
so if your concern for workplaces is so much higher than for people getting systematically fucked and not that rarely lose everything - even their lives - you’re gonna get real unhappy.
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It’s definitely a really bad look, but I can imagine how it could have happened.
A former artist or even an outsourced artist probably delivered them a texture sheet of graphics, nobody caught that several of the graphics were plaigerized, the artist never mentioned it, assumed it was purely for a blockout or temporary, maybe they used it during a mood boarding/visual development stage and it got pushed along the pipeline.
Trying to reverse search graphics your artists make for you would probably not be done in the good faith sense, if there wasn’t suspicion that it wasn’t original anyways? But happening four times seems like a reason to really crack down on that kind of thing for the future … Bungies management has also constantly had issues too.
Artists use photobashing all the time to develop concepts since timelines push design work faster and faster. Photobashing other artists work is usually an issue but taking images or conepts within creative liberties through sufficient alteration or “transformative” use is typically the move if it was ever done.
I’d call it a management issue. Probably bad oversight of outsourcing, or maybe internally disorganized production. Also text and graphics seems like they’d probably have vetted the designs and someone really tried to pass it off without raising attention somehow … So I’m guessing outsourced and not an internal employee? Idk.
Is the BlueSky OP here not a native English speaker? Cause, BOY that was tough to follow.
This will be entertaining in their ongoing Red War plagiarism lawsuit.
Man, as somebody who grew up with Halo, it’s really depressing to see how they seem to just be utterly incapable of an original thought anymore.
I mean is there even a simgle person still working on bungie that was somehow related to the good halos?
I don’t think that matters. This is likely a decision handed down by upper management. And that’s what makes it depressing; what could’ve continued to be some of the greatest creators of Sci-Fi video games instead have mismanaged their talent and shot both their feet off.
The blind leading the eagle-eyed.
How is Bungie still in business? I loved destiny but after a while of them being so hostile and anti-consumer I just left. Fuck Bungie and fuck whoever works for those ass hats
Why did they have to copy anything?!
BUNGIE LITERALLY ALREADY MADE MARATHON
Yeah but that Marathon was innovative, looked good, and was fun to play. That would never work in this day and age. Also I think the only thing that same about the two is the name.
It’s hilariously awful because, as a fan of the original Marathon trilogy, the aesthetic of the new game is the only thing that appealed to me; and it was stolen.
I have no interest in an extraction shooter. You can make an extraction shooter if you want, but you gotta make something that players can get emotionally invested in first. Original Marathon players won’t recognize this and new players won’t care so what was the fucking point of any of this, I’m going crazy. This industry has lost all direction
They did steal artwork, but the whole aesthetic wasn’t stolen… the stuff they stole is a very small part of the game (I’m pretty sure, haven’t and won’t play it). I’m in no way defending them, but saying the whole aesthetic was stolen just because they used some text and icons from someone istället just dumb.
Much of the aesthetic was clearly inspired by The Designers Republic
Every game’s style is inspired by something else. For example, Sable has a great style, but it’s largely inspired by Moebius (the artist), and that’s OK, and actually encouraged.
There is nothing in this world that is not inspired by previous experiences.
This stuff is directly lifted. https://youtu.be/F9Ute6uvpQg
I was hoping it was gonna be a clever, fun story shooter like the original. But it just sounds like a reskinned Helldivers with no connection to the original besides the name.
Luckily classic Marathon is available on Steam for free.
OK, criticism is fine, but reskined Helldivers? It’s nothing like Helldivers. It’s an extraction shooter, with a focus on PvP.
I guess Helldivers is a shooter where you extract, but it isn’t an extraction shooter. Extraction shooters are like Escape from Tarkov, Gray Zone, and the upcoming ARC Raiders. They’re about entering a game with items, collecting loot, and leaving. If you die you lose everything you brought. Nothing like Helldivers.
That makes even less sense to me. Nothing in the original game is about collecting resources or leaving the ship
Nope. I don’t really know why they decided to do this, but it does use the existing lore. The Phor are going to be involved, and a bunch of other Marathon stuff is going to be used. It’s almost the exact opposite game mode of what Marathon was though.
I’m just spitballing, but the ip owner needs to do something with the ip so they can keep it? IIRC similar things have been mentioned here and there when some long forgotten ip suddenly gets a new loweffort installment.
So, could be that they were making the extraction shooty anyway, so they slapped Marathon on it “just to refresh the timer”? I dunno if that’s how it works, not a lawyer.
This new game has essentially no relation besides name and logo to the old Marathon games. Sadly, because the old ones were the shit.
Calling this a Marathon game makes no sense, and I don’t just mean aesthetically. The business case can’t possibly be there, either.
Anyone who has a nostalgic attachment to Marathon (👋) won’t be interested in this new game, and anyone interested in this new game probably doesn’t care about the name “Marathon.”
On top of that, there’s the fact that Marathon kind of looked like Halo. When Bungie made Halo, they were clearly taking after their own art style from their previous games. Which means Bungie could have announced that they’re making a singleplayer first person shooter that kind of looks like Halo. Everyone would have lost their minds. Instead, they announced yet another live service game, and no one is interested.
How dare you.
I loved the Marathon games. They were better than Doom!
Edit; My bad, I thought you said they “Were shit,” instead of “The shit.”
My bad. Carry on.
It’s okay, ‘the shit’ is a weird phrase anyway. And as a Marathon trilogy connoisseur, you’re clearly alright.
I’m a little late to this party but this can be easily avoided by using the phrase “the shiz”. Just gotta train autocorrect to accept it.
This just reminds me of this guy…who also has one about the word ‘ass’.
https://youtu.be/igh9iO5BxBo
I’m so glad you linked this because it was my first thought as well and I was like damn I am going to struggle to find that haha
This is brilliant, thanks for the link!
Yeah, it’s a weird phrase, today. It was popular 20 years ago.
It meant “The best” back then.
But thanks for the positive vibe, and comment.
No cap fr fr
Well now I’m not buying it.
Its worse than that: this game is somehow CANON with the original Marathon
My vent core feels retroactively unblasted by this revelation. You really can’t expect anything good from any of the major studios anymore these days.
How dare you
Legit, i only clicked this because i was “wait wtf? system 7 marathon??”
I played the original games, on a Performa 6100 Mac, back in the day!
Look at you with your fancy PowerPC model. We had to make do with a 68040 and we liked it!
goes outside to yell at the clouds to get off of his lawn
They just trained their employees using other people’s copyrighted works. What’s the problem?
The implication that generative AI would spit out pixel-for-pixel copies from its training data is flat out wrong. Even generative AI would have made more original assets than what Bungie put in Marathon. The worst part is that this is like the 4th time they’ve been caught doing this.
Being inspired by an art style and using that style is fine, and completely normal. Thats how art works. But copying and pasting 1 for 1 is not fine.
I agree but it can get pretty close. Try asking gpt-4o to generate a realistic picture of an adventure who wears a hat and wields a whip to find lost treasure. It returns basically a picture of Harrison Ford
deleted by creator
Pixel for pixel is not the requirement to be a copyright violation, just fyi
No, but the point is that the included examples are pixel-for-pixel, meaning they were almost certainly copy-pasted by a human, rather than generated.
There’s nothing wrong with inspiration (attribution is nice), but what’s evident is they straight up LIFTED parts of antireal’s art into in-game assets.
This is something Sam Altman would say
The lead art director of marathon has followed her since before the game began development and he still stole her shit wholesale. Disgusting.
🎶 Oops I did it again! 🎶
🎶 I stole your art, added it to my game, ooh baby 🎶
Bungie had similar problems with Destiny 2, if I remember correctly.
Bungee commented on the current issue an hour ago…
Love the response. Very CYA and they’re called out on it by multiple people:
Honestly, at this point the company should be dismantled and the leadership thrown in prison. These corporate edgelords wont learn. They will just overstep, inch by inch and the courts will understate their deeds over and over until there is only one company that rules the world and sell you your fucking liver by the minute.
Dismantle this pile of shit.
So approx 850 people working at the studio should lose their livelihood because a few shitty leads and artists plagiarized?
Listen, I want to dismantle a LOT of companies that are a thousand times bigger than this.
so if your concern for workplaces is so much higher than for people getting systematically fucked and not that rarely lose everything - even their lives - you’re gonna get real unhappy.
This system is fucked, stop defending it.
Should have just used AI, at least then people could debate whether or not it was plagiarism
I wasn’t expecting quality from modern Bungie but this is definitely an unexpected low
What art did they steal?
I hear there’s this thing called a ‘hyperlink’ you can click to find out
Turns out you can click the link and find out! It links to a very short Bluesky post! Try it out! Lemmy has more than just headlines!