More and more games seem to suck on thier own, but can be great with mods. You have entire platforms like roblox where all the games are more or less mods. How long until the platform itself is community created and managed and the viability of games created by companies dissappears?
I’m not exactly sure if this is what you mean, but I have a couple examples of fantastic community powered fan games that arguably eclipse their inspiration.
Pokemon Infinite Fusion: fan powered remake of Pokemon Fire Red that incorporates a fusion mechanic and has something like 600,000 high quality fan created sprites. They’re now working on a version for Pokemon Emerald
Clone Hero: fan made guitar hero/rockband clone with support for tons of peripherals including drums and vocals, with a huge library of fan generated songs.
Some have already tried that. There are some games where there’s basically zero base game and the devs want the players to fill in the content. Since such games start out with nothing, no one makes mods for them, and so the games die in obscurity. Ever hear of S&box?
That said, the people behind RPGMaker have a lot of this covered. They provide a good stock of assets to let people build stuff out of the box. This lets people create content quick, which eventually brings in the people that know what they’re doing, which results in good stuff.
It’s been happening for years, almost decades at this point. In fact, I’d be willing to say that at least 50% of most games ever made were made by someone who used to mod other games for fun.
Most recently there’s been Black Mesa, which is a fan remake of Half-Life in Half-Life 2’s Source engine.
There’s also The Forgotten City, which was actually a Skyrim mod first and was so popular the mod makers were approached by Microsoft to make their own game.
Most Source engine games are actually mods of Half-Life and Half-Life 2. Counter-Strike started as a Half-Life mod.
Decades.
Team Fortress started as a mod for Quake 1(30 years ago)
Red Orchestra was the winner of the Make Something Unreal contest that Epic Games held over 20 years ago.
Famously, League of Legends and DOTA started as a custom map for Warcraft 3(Defense of the Ancients) and apparently Activision/Blizzard missed that window so much that they are a footnote in the genre they fucking started.
Were you playing games through the late 90s and early 00s, by any chance? Because we’ve been here before. At least three of the most-played games on Steam right now came from mods.
The third-most populated game on Steam right now is Dota 2. Dota 1 is a mod. Counter-Strike was a Half-Life mod. PUBG came from the designer of a Battle Royale mod for Arma.
I did in fact play games then. But back then, modded games weren’t anywhere near as common as they are now. And the games that were modded to make new great games were great to begin with.
Now adays we seem to start from trash and use mods to make it playable. Soo, do we need the trash?
Roblox gets mods and UGC because people wanted to be there to begin with. Mostly children, but still people. I don’t know how to make an apples to apples comparison about how prevalent modding was back then, because there are just way more games out today in general; but there were still tons of mods. Elder Scrolls and the mod community have always been intertwined, and once again, people like what’s there in the first place. Even with the reputation of Elder Scrolls being a game you install mods on, it’s only something like 10% of players that ever install them. I have never modded Elder Scrolls.
In fact Morrowind (arguably Bethesda’s best game) is still getting mods made for it over 24 years later. It’s biggest mod, Project Tamriel/Tamriel Rebuilt, is still getting made and worked on, and just had a major update last April.
Well, I started playing Skyrim about 3 years ago, and I now have over 200 mods. It’s almost as high quality graphics and sound as modern games, plus I have a huge choice of scenarios I can install. Wild stuff.
Cyberpunk 2077 might be next for me, unless I decide to play skyblivion!
Company-made games and standalone games aren’t going anywhere any time soon. Its a different type of project than modding/creating for games like Half Life, Gmod, Minecraft, Roblox, or VRChat. Making games within other games limits what you can do, because you have no control over the engine, and said engine is normally focused on an specific “base” mechanics set. For example, in Gmod, this is an FPS game. Modders can change this gameplay, but the further you push away from it, the less work is done for you, and the more you’re fighting the existing game. At a certain point, you may as well just make a game rather than a mod.
Sure, but the engine. My understanding is that even the game companies often license something like unreal engine or what not. Those cost money. How long berfore modders create their own engines for the various common game mechanics that are very mod friendly?
There are free engines available, and many of the paid ones have cheap or free tiers available for smaller projects. Also, if you want to actually publish your mod, there are likely to be a bunch of costs, like buying licences to use copyrighted characters, settings, ect. Even more so if you want to publish your mod as a standalone product, where you need to buy a licence to resell the entire original game.
That said, prehaps it would help to think of the game engine as a foundation, and the games as a completed house. If you want to make something, you can look at existing houses and imagine putting an extention on, or a new coat of paint. If the house is particularly well contructed, maybe its even easy to do. Still, at a certain point, theres no more you can add or change without it being easier to tear everything down and start from the foundation, or entirely from scratch. Its not a limitation of the design of the house, its just an intrinsic fact when you’re working by building off someone else’s completed work.
Now, if we start from the foundation (engine) instead we have less to start with, meaning its going to be a lot more work than doing minor changes, but the hardest part is still already done for us. This is what most people do when making games. Its far more flexable than modding, esspecially because you have a selection of engines available at different prices, with different strengths, weaknesses and specializations. GameMaker for simple 2D games, RPGMaker for making jrpgs, Unreal for 3D action games, ect.
Finally, you could skip both these options, and design and build everything from scatch. Its the option that gives you most freedom by far, but its generally not worth it unless you’re making something thats very small, that is so unique that nothing else will work, or that you’re dedicated and what a perfect fit for.
Engines cost money for a reason. It means you get the tools while someone else spends the significant resources to develop and maintain it. There are FOSS engines available, but those aren’t as developed or widespread.
More and more games seem to suck on thier own, but can be great with mods.
But back then, modded games weren’t anywhere near as common as they are now.
What are you talking about? What new games with proper modding tools are there? Nobody wants to mod Starfield compared to Skyrim, Most of you probably don’t even know that there are modding tools out for Doom Eternal. CS server mods were effectively neutered by CS2’s matchmaking and skins store. There’s gooner mods for Capcom games and VR plugins I guess. Indie game engines ate the modding community’s lunch.
Well, recently I have played rimworld, 7 days to die, satisfactory, raft, and subnautica. They all have mods. I can’t recall the last game I played that didn’t. Now some of those didn’t suck on thier own, but seems like a lot do.
That’s fair. I am vaguely aware that sim and sandbox games do tend to have mod support. For reference, with a quick search into the 71 games mentioned in the 2025 Game Awards Show, ~5-10 come with significant mod support.
The existence of engines like Unity and Unreal blurs this a bit. You used to see more full-conversion mods for games that make them into something else, because the engine was the hard part. Now that they’re available on very permissive terms, most hobbyist game devs will genuinely make a full game from an empty kit, and release it without players needing to mod a game like Half-Life or Quake.
But, having full ownership of that environment naturally means a lot of creators will want something back for their work. They have no choice but to shrug and accept it’s a free fan project when it’s built off a $60 game, but the story is different when that chain is gone. So most of this trend takes the form of indie game development.
Honestly, this is how I wish more of my favorite IPs would go. Elder scrolls and fallout especially, Bethesda couldn’t write a story for a bad porno, let alone compete with some of the story mods in Fallout 4 and skyrim. Just streamline the developer tools into an easy to access plug and play system for mods and quit trying to sell us a $40 knock off of an existing mod on nexus.
I’m both super excited and very worried about this project. It has so much potential but there’s so little hype around it that it might not have enough creators and users. It’s also going to be paid which might be a tough sell considering other platforms like Roblox are free.
I plan to get it for my kid, they love creating games. Hopefully it helps them connect some dots about art and such. I plan to play with it too, excited to watch all my wonderfully intellectual game opinions get torn to bits by actual game dev experience.
Dunno “rise”, but certainly isn’t unprecedented for mods or similar to get standalone releases. Black Mesa and UNLOVED both come to mind.
And if we stretch definition a little, to my knowledge, Super Bernie World, Luanti, and apparently now S&Box all allow being used as engines for making mods as standalone games.
You mean like Luanti?
These platforms exist, but most people won’t know of their existance. Game companies invest heavily in advertisement to reach potential consumers
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I’m not exactly sure if this is what you mean, but I have a couple examples of fantastic community powered fan games that arguably eclipse their inspiration.
Pokemon Infinite Fusion: fan powered remake of Pokemon Fire Red that incorporates a fusion mechanic and has something like 600,000 high quality fan created sprites. They’re now working on a version for Pokemon Emerald
Clone Hero: fan made guitar hero/rockband clone with support for tons of peripherals including drums and vocals, with a huge library of fan generated songs.
Some have already tried that. There are some games where there’s basically zero base game and the devs want the players to fill in the content. Since such games start out with nothing, no one makes mods for them, and so the games die in obscurity. Ever hear of S&box?
That said, the people behind RPGMaker have a lot of this covered. They provide a good stock of assets to let people build stuff out of the box. This lets people create content quick, which eventually brings in the people that know what they’re doing, which results in good stuff.
It’s been happening for years, almost decades at this point. In fact, I’d be willing to say that at least 50% of most games ever made were made by someone who used to mod other games for fun.
Most recently there’s been Black Mesa, which is a fan remake of Half-Life in Half-Life 2’s Source engine.
There’s also The Forgotten City, which was actually a Skyrim mod first and was so popular the mod makers were approached by Microsoft to make their own game.
Most Source engine games are actually mods of Half-Life and Half-Life 2. Counter-Strike started as a Half-Life mod.
Also Phoenix Point, made by the team behind The Long War mods for XCOM.
Decades.
Team Fortress started as a mod for Quake 1(30 years ago)
Red Orchestra was the winner of the Make Something Unreal contest that Epic Games held over 20 years ago.
Famously, League of Legends and DOTA started as a custom map for Warcraft 3(Defense of the Ancients) and apparently Activision/Blizzard missed that window so much that they are a footnote in the genre they fucking started.
Battlefield 2 was at least partly made by the team who made Desert Combat for Battlefield 1942
I spent a few minutes trying to figure out how to mod quake into dwarf fortress until I reread your comment.
Were you playing games through the late 90s and early 00s, by any chance? Because we’ve been here before. At least three of the most-played games on Steam right now came from mods.
Didnt the whole moba genre start as mod?
Started as Warcraft 3 custom maps before Dota 1.
The third-most populated game on Steam right now is Dota 2. Dota 1 is a mod. Counter-Strike was a Half-Life mod. PUBG came from the designer of a Battle Royale mod for Arma.
And Auto Chess genre came from a custom game in Dota 2
Is LoL still the most popular game in the world?
Based off Dota
Almost certainly not, but it’s probably not far down the list.
I did in fact play games then. But back then, modded games weren’t anywhere near as common as they are now. And the games that were modded to make new great games were great to begin with.
Now adays we seem to start from trash and use mods to make it playable. Soo, do we need the trash?
Roblox gets mods and UGC because people wanted to be there to begin with. Mostly children, but still people. I don’t know how to make an apples to apples comparison about how prevalent modding was back then, because there are just way more games out today in general; but there were still tons of mods. Elder Scrolls and the mod community have always been intertwined, and once again, people like what’s there in the first place. Even with the reputation of Elder Scrolls being a game you install mods on, it’s only something like 10% of players that ever install them. I have never modded Elder Scrolls.
I wonder if there are metrics on % of players using mods across lots of games to see if there are patterns.
In fact Morrowind (arguably Bethesda’s best game) is still getting mods made for it over 24 years later. It’s biggest mod, Project Tamriel/Tamriel Rebuilt, is still getting made and worked on, and just had a major update last April.
Well, I started playing Skyrim about 3 years ago, and I now have over 200 mods. It’s almost as high quality graphics and sound as modern games, plus I have a huge choice of scenarios I can install. Wild stuff.
Cyberpunk 2077 might be next for me, unless I decide to play skyblivion!
Company-made games and standalone games aren’t going anywhere any time soon. Its a different type of project than modding/creating for games like Half Life, Gmod, Minecraft, Roblox, or VRChat. Making games within other games limits what you can do, because you have no control over the engine, and said engine is normally focused on an specific “base” mechanics set. For example, in Gmod, this is an FPS game. Modders can change this gameplay, but the further you push away from it, the less work is done for you, and the more you’re fighting the existing game. At a certain point, you may as well just make a game rather than a mod.
Sure, but the engine. My understanding is that even the game companies often license something like unreal engine or what not. Those cost money. How long berfore modders create their own engines for the various common game mechanics that are very mod friendly?
There are free engines available, and many of the paid ones have cheap or free tiers available for smaller projects. Also, if you want to actually publish your mod, there are likely to be a bunch of costs, like buying licences to use copyrighted characters, settings, ect. Even more so if you want to publish your mod as a standalone product, where you need to buy a licence to resell the entire original game.
That said, prehaps it would help to think of the game engine as a foundation, and the games as a completed house. If you want to make something, you can look at existing houses and imagine putting an extention on, or a new coat of paint. If the house is particularly well contructed, maybe its even easy to do. Still, at a certain point, theres no more you can add or change without it being easier to tear everything down and start from the foundation, or entirely from scratch. Its not a limitation of the design of the house, its just an intrinsic fact when you’re working by building off someone else’s completed work.
Now, if we start from the foundation (engine) instead we have less to start with, meaning its going to be a lot more work than doing minor changes, but the hardest part is still already done for us. This is what most people do when making games. Its far more flexable than modding, esspecially because you have a selection of engines available at different prices, with different strengths, weaknesses and specializations. GameMaker for simple 2D games, RPGMaker for making jrpgs, Unreal for 3D action games, ect.
Finally, you could skip both these options, and design and build everything from scatch. Its the option that gives you most freedom by far, but its generally not worth it unless you’re making something thats very small, that is so unique that nothing else will work, or that you’re dedicated and what a perfect fit for.
Engines cost money for a reason. It means you get the tools while someone else spends the significant resources to develop and maintain it. There are FOSS engines available, but those aren’t as developed or widespread.
What are you talking about? What new games with proper modding tools are there? Nobody wants to mod Starfield compared to Skyrim, Most of you probably don’t even know that there are modding tools out for Doom Eternal. CS server mods were effectively neutered by CS2’s matchmaking and skins store. There’s gooner mods for Capcom games and VR plugins I guess. Indie game engines ate the modding community’s lunch.
Well, recently I have played rimworld, 7 days to die, satisfactory, raft, and subnautica. They all have mods. I can’t recall the last game I played that didn’t. Now some of those didn’t suck on thier own, but seems like a lot do.
That’s fair. I am vaguely aware that sim and sandbox games do tend to have mod support. For reference, with a quick search into the 71 games mentioned in the 2025 Game Awards Show, ~5-10 come with significant mod support.
I’d say maybe over 20 years ago until it starts?
The existence of engines like Unity and Unreal blurs this a bit. You used to see more full-conversion mods for games that make them into something else, because the engine was the hard part. Now that they’re available on very permissive terms, most hobbyist game devs will genuinely make a full game from an empty kit, and release it without players needing to mod a game like Half-Life or Quake.
But, having full ownership of that environment naturally means a lot of creators will want something back for their work. They have no choice but to shrug and accept it’s a free fan project when it’s built off a $60 game, but the story is different when that chain is gone. So most of this trend takes the form of indie game development.
Honestly, this is how I wish more of my favorite IPs would go. Elder scrolls and fallout especially, Bethesda couldn’t write a story for a bad porno, let alone compete with some of the story mods in Fallout 4 and skyrim. Just streamline the developer tools into an easy to access plug and play system for mods and quit trying to sell us a $40 knock off of an existing mod on nexus.
S&box is coming out in like a month so probably then
I’m both super excited and very worried about this project. It has so much potential but there’s so little hype around it that it might not have enough creators and users. It’s also going to be paid which might be a tough sell considering other platforms like Roblox are free.
I tried the dev preview though, it’s pretty rad.
I plan to get it for my kid, they love creating games. Hopefully it helps them connect some dots about art and such. I plan to play with it too, excited to watch all my wonderfully intellectual game opinions get torn to bits by actual game dev experience.
What’s that exactly?
A modern attempt at a Garry’s Mod sequel by the same developer, basically.
Dunno “rise”, but certainly isn’t unprecedented for mods or similar to get standalone releases. Black Mesa and UNLOVED both come to mind.
And if we stretch definition a little, to my knowledge, Super Bernie World, Luanti, and apparently now S&Box all allow being used as engines for making mods as standalone games.
deleted by creator
You mean like Luanti? These platforms exist, but most people won’t know of their existance. Game companies invest heavily in advertisement to reach potential consumers
Aliens: Total Conversion - 1994:
https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Aliens_TC