Is there a RISCV chip available with comparable performance & efficiency to current ARM chips? Seems like Valve would kill any chance their headset has if they unnecessarily reduced time between charging cycles.
All the RISC-V chips I see in the wild so far are stationary or tiny (like some new ESP wifi chips now run on RISC-V)
Mobile / laptop grade performance chips seems a few years away still, tons of optimizations needed (especially fast performance scaling and idle modes) for that
This is more exciting to me than the other hardware announcements. Linux on a phone that can have both a desktop mode and gaming right in my pocket? It’s the dream.
Desktop Linux on phone (or even better, tablet) hardware would be very interesting to me. But with how locked down bootloaders are in those devices? I don’t have much hope for them currently.
I’ve been curious about how the Frame will handle games on the standalone side since the announcement and the discussion about the ARM compatibility layer has me wondering if, to play standalone, I would be expected to run the Meta version of games as Android apps and not, like, the actual PC versions on Steam I own running directly from the headset.
It can use FEX to run x86 binaries, or use ARM binaries directly in steam for games that have them (games that support apple silicon macs, for example) and it can sideload apks meant for android, if the apk is actually standalone, and doesn’t have system dependencies that only exist on meta devices.
The game Valve used to demo the standalone capability, was Hades. The x86 version running on a virtual display, after just installing it via steam.
It can use FEX to run x86 binaries, or use ARM binaries directly in steam for games that have them (games that support apple silicon macs, for example) and it can sideload apks meant for android, if the apk is actually standalone, and doesn’t have system dependencies that only exist on meta devices.
I honestly wonder how much of this is just copied over from the functionality they wanted on the steamframe. because there it’s a great, potentially fantastic tool, where as on the steam machine it’s… interesting?
The game Valve used to demo the standalone capability, was Hades.
I am aware; but I am specifically meaning VR games, not just PC games in general. And especially not something like Hades which I can’t imagine performing poorly even if emulated on a cheap smartphone. How well would it run Alyx? VRChat? Beat Saber?
Yep! The article title is a bit misleading, as the Steam Machine is still x86_64. Which is good imo: that’ll have better compatibility and the power draw/thermals matter less there than in a handheld or headset.
The Frame is the arm-based hardware Valve is going to be shipping.
But their work on FEX is taking ARM compatibility into the future, much like how their work on Wine/Proton has taken Linux compatibility to a new level.
Anyways, I agree with the article, that it’s going to extend to more than the Frame as support matures. ARM CPUs (or RISCs in general) are the future for non-desktop processors; I’d argue Apple has already been there with their M-series laptops, though not to nearly the same extent with gaming.
On the plus side, all these tools for running x86/64 code on ARM likely helps a lot with running that same code on RISC.
I’d love it if we got to the point where Linux just brought the translation layers with it and automatically ran code compiled for any processor on any other processor. It’s not efficient, but it would be very useful.
I have doubts that it would work well on the majority of older phones. I would think that the lack of a sizable memory pool would really be a hindrance to performance, let alone performing well for games. Hell, even on the Steam Deck, I have had to use Cryo tools to increase the page file to expand available memory in a couple of games to avoid crashing problems.
As for retro gaming, there are countless emulators already available on Android that work quite well. I can even play PS2 games on my phone surprisingly well.
I play a good amount of games from my Steam library on my Android phone. A Snapdragon 8 elite phone. Pretty much things start becoming viable for old indie games on the Snapdragon 865 and then for bigger PS4 era PC games, 8 Gen 2 is about where it becomes viable. Then 8 Elite and Elite Gen 5 , solid performance but not great compatibility because of immature graphics drivers
One thing is that small phone OLED displays look good at 540-720p. Real nice for games that support 21:9
Oh for sure, but I don’t think phones that have Snapdragon 865 or higher/equivalent aren’t exactly the norm for older phones people just have lying around in a drawer. Regardless, ARM support for SteamOS is great news, IMO. Really opens up a lot of possibilities for stronger phones.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
No game suggestions, friend requests, surveys, or begging.
No Let’s Plays, streams, highlight reels/montages, random videos or shorts.
No off-topic posts/comments, within reason.
Use the original source, no clickbait titles, no duplicates.
(Submissions should be from the original source if possible, unless from paywalled or non-english sources.
If the title is clickbait or lacks context you may lightly edit the title.)
Every one should have the right to bear ARM.
Every month I hope to read an article about some bug name using RISCV in consumer hardware as a flagship chip, but alas, it’s ARM again.
That will only happen for a company that cares about price and nothing else. The performance is vastly inferior, which matters in gaming.
Is there a RISCV chip available with comparable performance & efficiency to current ARM chips? Seems like Valve would kill any chance their headset has if they unnecessarily reduced time between charging cycles.
All the RISC-V chips I see in the wild so far are stationary or tiny (like some new ESP wifi chips now run on RISC-V)
Mobile / laptop grade performance chips seems a few years away still, tons of optimizations needed (especially fast performance scaling and idle modes) for that
?
U and I are right next to eachother…
But I’m wishing the same, good enough riscv for everyday usage. Browsing and such.
This is more exciting to me than the other hardware announcements. Linux on a phone that can have both a desktop mode and gaming right in my pocket? It’s the dream.
Desktop Linux on phone (or even better, tablet) hardware would be very interesting to me. But with how locked down bootloaders are in those devices? I don’t have much hope for them currently.
Yeah that’s downside.
I’ve been curious about how the Frame will handle games on the standalone side since the announcement and the discussion about the ARM compatibility layer has me wondering if, to play standalone, I would be expected to run the Meta version of games as Android apps and not, like, the actual PC versions on Steam I own running directly from the headset.
AFAIK, yes, plus one more.
It can use FEX to run x86 binaries, or use ARM binaries directly in steam for games that have them (games that support apple silicon macs, for example) and it can sideload apks meant for android, if the apk is actually standalone, and doesn’t have system dependencies that only exist on meta devices.
The game Valve used to demo the standalone capability, was Hades. The x86 version running on a virtual display, after just installing it via steam.
I honestly wonder how much of this is just copied over from the functionality they wanted on the steamframe. because there it’s a great, potentially fantastic tool, where as on the steam machine it’s… interesting?
I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Copied over from where to what? The Frame is the only ARM device in the lineup. The Steam Machine is x86.
I am aware; but I am specifically meaning VR games, not just PC games in general. And especially not something like Hades which I can’t imagine performing poorly even if emulated on a cheap smartphone. How well would it run Alyx? VRChat? Beat Saber?
yeah I think this is really useful on steamframe. on the machine? hrmmm
Apple silicon is weird. It uses 16k page files while most other things are set up for other files sizes.
I will be really happy the day I can boot steam big picture on my Android/Linux phone and launch a steam game through fex/Proton
Only for the technical achievement, or are there games you’d like to play on the road?
skong
skong release when??
Definitely seems like a way for them to test ARM for potential Steam Deck 2 usage (for that “next generation performance/battery life” they want)
Could also be extremely useful for VR where every gram counts.
Isn’t the frame already arm? That’s why you can play your library on the thing
Yep! The article title is a bit misleading, as the Steam Machine is still x86_64. Which is good imo: that’ll have better compatibility and the power draw/thermals matter less there than in a handheld or headset.
The Frame is the arm-based hardware Valve is going to be shipping.
But their work on FEX is taking ARM compatibility into the future, much like how their work on Wine/Proton has taken Linux compatibility to a new level.
Anyways, I agree with the article, that it’s going to extend to more than the Frame as support matures. ARM CPUs (or RISCs in general) are the future for non-desktop processors; I’d argue Apple has already been there with their M-series laptops, though not to nearly the same extent with gaming.
Well then that makes a lot of sense
I had some severe hopium when I first read about the new Valve hardware. I thought all of them would be on ARM.
But sadly, only the goggles. Hope it goes well, we really need some boost for ARM here.
What we really need is a big boost to RISC. But I guess a boost to ARM will do while we wait…
On the plus side, all these tools for running x86/64 code on ARM likely helps a lot with running that same code on RISC.
I’d love it if we got to the point where Linux just brought the translation layers with it and automatically ran code compiled for any processor on any other processor. It’s not efficient, but it would be very useful.
Imagine taking an old phone out of the junk drawer and suddenly having another Steam Deck.
Even really old smartphones would work as a portable retro console.
I have doubts that it would work well on the majority of older phones. I would think that the lack of a sizable memory pool would really be a hindrance to performance, let alone performing well for games. Hell, even on the Steam Deck, I have had to use Cryo tools to increase the page file to expand available memory in a couple of games to avoid crashing problems.
As for retro gaming, there are countless emulators already available on Android that work quite well. I can even play PS2 games on my phone surprisingly well.
I play a good amount of games from my Steam library on my Android phone. A Snapdragon 8 elite phone. Pretty much things start becoming viable for old indie games on the Snapdragon 865 and then for bigger PS4 era PC games, 8 Gen 2 is about where it becomes viable. Then 8 Elite and Elite Gen 5 , solid performance but not great compatibility because of immature graphics drivers
One thing is that small phone OLED displays look good at 540-720p. Real nice for games that support 21:9
Oh for sure, but I don’t think phones that have Snapdragon 865 or higher/equivalent aren’t exactly the norm for older phones people just have lying around in a drawer. Regardless, ARM support for SteamOS is great news, IMO. Really opens up a lot of possibilities for stronger phones.
The 865 is 6 years old. That is very much old phone in a drawer category.
Would this allow the reverse too? Android apps compatible with Linux?
That’s already reality with waydroid.
Valve is saying you will be able to side load android apps on the headset so yes. Probably using waydroid