The new Xbox platform is said to be a "premium" experience, and now we have some details on what it'll look like.
It’s confirmed: the next xbox will be a Windows PC box. It sounds very interesting that this will also be backwards compatible with Xbox games, including 360/One/Series games. I wonder if it’s just emulation, and how well that will work
And when you quicksave in games, you’ll need to wait 5 minutes for OneDrive to connect to Windows servers to sync up the save before you can continue playing
Yeah I have the gaming rig combined with home theater setup the xbone promised and it can be done without giving Microsoft the right to spy on me (though i will concede they make a damn good controller and I appreciate that they’re still AA operated so I can just swap out my rechargeables and keep gaming). Steam and VLC and a decent gaming rig has just been a good value for a long time
Well, it got you a better experience than whatever it was Sony were doing at the time, which was a weird ethernet adapter, and seemingly every game reinventing the idea of how online should work.
I don’t think it ever needed to be charged for, it just needed to be designed.
I only ever paid for it once they started giving away games with it. Multiplayer alone wasn’t worth it to me.
Hosting servers isn’t free. Someone, somewhere, is paying for it. It’s easy to forget that that someone used to be advertisers via GameSpy for so many games. Now, on PC, you’re paying for it via digital purchases on the same store that hosts the servers.
It wasn’t always worth it back then, hence why it was supported with ads or a subscription. Did you ever patch your game back then? Even that was subsidized by ads; the devs didn’t host the patch files themselves in most cases. Live services, which are unfortunately all too often synonymous with online games, host their own servers, and you’re paying for them with microtransactions. If a game uses the platform’s matchmaking for peer to peer multiplayer, which was just about all of them on Xbox Live in its early days, then you’re using the servers your subscription was paying for. Even today, many still use these features. But you’re correct that the ones not using these features are still locked behind that subscription on consoles unless they’re free to play.
Yeah. People very much forget how horrible most online multiplayer infrastructure was back in the early 2000s. Voice chat was a case where you used teamspeak/ventrillo for atrocious quality audio that optimally depended on using an actual phone line in conjunction or it just never worked. Messaging was basically xfire or AIM. And servers were generally listen servers that someone in your clan left running in the background when they forgot about it.
Live provided a messaging system people would actually use and tapped into MS infrastructure for voice chat that actually worked… which was great for playing with your friends and learning all new slurs when you had it on in a pub. Game servers themselves were still generally all listen servers but that changed over time.
These days? Discord has a LOT of problems but it actually works and is a much more universal platform. Server hosting infrastructure is such that there isn’t really a point in paying the platform for it. And EVERYTHING needs to be social media for people to not whinge so having a messaging system loses its value.
But also… have any of the consoles really pushed the online infrastructure as why you pay for premium? Okay, Nintendo have but they REALLY shouldn’t considering what they are offering. It is all about the IGC and has been since Sony got involved as part of the PSN hack.
These days? I dont mind it. With the offering of the 3 games a month, it’s been fine. As someone who’s gotten old and barely plays anything, it’s nice only spending the yearly subscription and getting up to 36 games a year. Sure, not all are great, but there have been plenty of big games offered that let me play the big stuff I missed and probably still wouldn’t pay $20-$30 for.
A good example would be Alan Wake 2 this month. Really wanted to play it but couldn’t really bring myself to buy it.
Really, I think multiplayer should be free (it’s not like multiplayer games don’t nickel and dime you on top of that anyway) and the game subscription peeled out of it. I’m only interested in the “free” games anyway.
Seems worse to me than humble choice which you don’t need to play online, so you can just buy the months you like to get 8 games in your library as opposed to it being tied to multiplayer.
Then there’s Epic which gives away games every month without having to spend any money and still retain multiplayer access.
I used to do humble years ago, then I remember something changed and the selections were never that good. It’s been a while since I found one worth buying. I also fo Epic every week. I have been for about 3 or 4 years now.
Dang, I missed that. Honestly, I haven’t looked much at humble in years. If thats what they are still pushing, then I will definitely start following again. Thanks for the heads up.
Hopefully, they throw in some more incentives because an identical service to Steam is still going to be inferior because it’s controlled by Microsoft instead of Valve
The ability to miss games has been there for years, you could go to the game in the Xbox app and open the modifiable app data folder. The problem with this is that, developers can choose not to expose that capability on a per game basis.
Still there’s ways aroused it at least but it certainly not as straightforward.
It’s not that. As far as the stock market is concerned Microsoft has succeeded and plateaued. There is no where else for them to grow in the first world.
So they are not giving up on consoles. No, this marketing campaign wasn’t for us, not by a long shot. They’re going to Africa, to South America, Asia, they’re trying to lower the bar for entry so they are the first ones in everyone’s minds over there.
Don’t have an Xbox? Here’s a handheld. Can’t afford that? Game streaming from the cloud. This is infinite growth capitalism and there simply aren’t enough people to sustain that, so they need more people.
Until Microsoft changes the deal
Or you have to scan your retinas to verify watching an ad before you queue for a round of Halo CE Re-Campaign remake HD remaster Master Chief Cortana Limited Edition
Indeed, the Xbox Ally and Xbox Ally X, with its Xbox Full Screen Experience, is essentially what the next Xbox will look like. It’s not dissimilar to the SteamOS interface and Big Picture Mode, which allows you to exit out into full Linux at will.
A big difference here, and something that it sounds like the FSE did not nail, is that SteamOS doesn’t just boot into Big Picture Mode; it intercepts how popups and game windows are drawn to the screen so that you never lose focus of the game window. It doesn’t force you to get out a keyboard or use the touch screen to enter a login password or PIN. It’s got those important considerations for the ways a game machine differs from any other personal computer. Microsoft, with all its wealth and the code base of Windows in its control, can make those same changes, but maybe they didn’t plan for it in their code base that now surely goes back almost 30 years at this point. Best of luck to those engineers.
New technology Microsoft is developing, alongside the “fixed” nature of the hardware, should eliminate a lot of the inconveniences that sometimes come with PC gaming. Things like compiling shaders, etc, shouldn’t be an issue on the new Xbox, for example.
I don’t know if it’s actually new technology, but what Valve does for the Steam Deck is to either handle this server side or to have people with a Steam Deck essentially upload their completed shaders back to the server to be distributed to everyone else’s Steam Deck, sort of like BitTorrent. This is what I expect Microsoft will do.
Right now, I’m told the current plan is for the next Xbox specifically to have no paywall for multiplayer.
It’s insane that they’ve kept that paywall for so long when it would be the easiest way to make their console more enticing than PlayStation, before they did this pivot of theirs. If the goal was Game Pass anyway, make online free and make that library on Game Pass attractive. The reason online is free on PC is because your store purchases are supporting the infrastructure that someone like Valve provides, and we crossed the threshold on consoles where digital purchases are the majority some time ago.
Where the Xbox Ally is disadvantaged, at least for Xbox console users, is the lack of the Xbox console library. There are more Xbox Play Anywhere (dual-license PC and console Xbox games) than ever, but most AAA publishers aren’t on board with this ecosystem just yet. Increasingly, though, it’ll become the default ecosystem for publishers, particularly if they want to support a PC gaming universe where they get 88% of the revenue rather than 70%.
This is a delusional paragraph in the wake of the Epic Games Store.
Things like compiling shaders, etc, shouldn’t be an issue on the new Xbox, for example.
From what I remember that’s exactly what MS is doing as well, xbox would let you download pre-compiled shaders for the ROG handheld. Though I don’t think you upload any of your own shaders since the xbox hardware is unified as opposed to steam having to support everybody on Linux
As far as I know, this same advantage isn’t granted to anything other than Steam Deck. On desktop, you often have a Vulkan shader step before the game boots that I rarely see on Deck. I could be wrong though.
it intercepts how popups and game windows are drawn to the screen so that you never lose focus of the game window
Huh? That is kind of just how window managers work. The game launches so it is on top. It may or may not be exclusive fullscreen these days. The game spawns up another window as part of a social media thing or because you typed /wiki jennah's feet and then that is on top until you close it. That is, mostly, OS agnostic these days.
It doesn’t force you to get out a keyboard or use the touch screen to enter a login password or PIN
Big Picture 100% makes you do that if there is a text input. You can choose to use your controller to navigate the keyboard and… that is a love it or hate it. From a quick google, the asus equivalent (as of 2 years ago) is that you can switch your input to desktop mode to use the joysticks as a mouse. And while that is a step down from automagically “just working”… the fact that I know that it is steam+square kinda sums up just how automagic it is with Big Picture.
My understanding, heavily tainted by Dan Ryckert’s stupidity, is that the big problem the xbox decks have is the OS login window. Yes, Microsoft need to get off their fucking asses and make that work consistently. But Valve mostly bypasses that by having a shitty pin login. That is a “I left my SteamOS laptop on my bed and someone from a dorm down the hallway stole all my money” story away from being a debacle.
Background processes can spawn pop-ups, update reminders, notifications, etc. If you listen to Dan and Bakalar’s chat on the Bombcast, even with Bakalar on the proper FSE like he’s supposed to be, you’ll hear examples of the controller inputs just not working the way they’re supposed to, often because something else spawned on top of it. You can hear the same in this GameSpot review of the Xbox Ally X from Tamoor Hussain. And I can tell you from experience, this happens on desktop Linux distros on handhelds as well.
If you shut off most of your other apps (like fucking discord) you don’t have the popups from that.
As for OS level shenanigans? Steam Big Picture alone can’t stop the mess that is KDE (Wayland?) whinging that steam input looks like a remote desktop session as far as inputs are concerned (although I finally found the setting for that after like 55 hours of Pillars 1). SteamOS/Bazzite “solve” that by having a ridiculously stripped down mode… which is not dissimilar from what MS is arguing as their “gaming mode” that will probably still not work but is conceivably that.
To be clear. Fuck ASUS. Their ROG Armory Crate shit is god damned malware.
But for a “new xbox” that is the “PC with gaming mode” that MS have been alluding to over the past few months? That is effectively what Valve are doing with SteamOS (and same with the Bazzite devs).
If you’re fine with just Big Picture Mode rather than what SteamOS or Bazzite are doing at a lower level, more power to you, but for a lot of us, it makes a huge difference in the experience, and it sounds like Microsoft’s FSE hasn’t gotten all the way there yet.
I was more just pointing out that most (all?) of what you said is… not anything special. In fact, the big advantage seems to just be that SteamOS closes your windows for you rather than expecting you to care about going through your systray to see if you actually need banzai buddy running while you play WoW.
When Microsoft can’t do it on their FSE, it certainly feels special. But no, it’s a bit more than deciding to close something or not. Do you have a Steam Deck or a machine running Bazzite? In gaming mode, check out a game that has one of those stupid pre-launch launchers on it, like most of 2K’s games, and note how it handles that differently from a desktop OS.
Yes. I have a Steam Deck and an HTPC running bazzite. I am aware of what it does. I like what it does.
But what you are now describing is just defaulting all windows to launch in fullscreen. The rest is just the natural stack and focusing. if I double click Warframe in desktop and don’t immediately go off to do other stuff while it launches, it defaults to the launcher in focus. Just like if I launch it in big picture mode it defaults to the launcher in focus.
And you continue to assume that the asus xbox deck is the new xbox. Whereas this lines up with what MS have been saying since the last time they pivoted their entire division a few months back: the next xbox is what is going to do this and it is going to be heavily dependent on windows gaming mode. Which isn’t out yet.
Just get a Steam Deck, and add a hub and wireless controller.
Oh, but it won’t run full-detail AAA releases at 4K? Nothing cheap will. That is exclusively the domain of consoles, earned through direct-contact optimization with developers. That’s still enough horsepower for the thousands of great indie games on Steam, many of which are simple enough to run fine on a midsize TV on the small Deck CPU.
Basically, if someone is adamant about running high-detail games on their TV using Steam, they’re already a niche enough market that it really doesn’t make sense to build up a single SKU for them and hope for bulk manufacturing savings the same way you could for consoles.
It’s probably better off for developers to keep targeting the Deck as a general metric point anyway. The especially good news there is, once devs do that, Linux desktop gamers benefit anyway.
All signs are that we are getting the new VR headset first.
And it is probably in Valve’s best interest to let other people drive the HTPC consoles. They are not going to be cheap since “1024 at 40 FPS” doesn’t scale all that well to a 50 inch 4k display. So let other integrators deal with that. Just release the steam controller 2 already.
And I’ll say that you can get a really nice AMD NUC HTPC for under 500 bucks that can handle “steam deck games” on a TV. And I THINK I have a way to get Display Port -> HDMI 2.1 that I need to sit down and test.
All signs are that we are getting the new VR headset first.
Yeah :(
And it is probably in Valve’s best interest to let other people drive the HTPC consoles. They are not going to be cheap since “1024 at 40 FPS” doesn’t scale all that well to a 50 inch 4k display. So let other integrators deal with that. Just release the steam controller 2 already.
I’m not sure this is a good idea, personally. The original Steam Machines and the ROG Xbox Ally are pretty good indicators that it’s not very smart to rely on OEMs to drive major change in the PC market.
The current gen consoles are basically already just standard AMD x86-64 PCs that just happen to be running locked down proprietary OSes. So it really seems like low hanging fruit to me for Valve to just put out a price-competitive Steam Machine “console” akin to the Steam Deck that boots into SteamOS and otherwise is a normal PC that with a normal UEFI bootloader. That seems both technically easier and cheaper to do than putting out yet another prohibitively expensive VR/AR device.
As a fan of Linux and FOSS, my main concern is that Valve misses a big window of opportunity by failing to capitalize on the current weakness of Xbox and Windows during this awkward transition period from traditional consoles to PCs.
When Valve put out the original Steam Machines, people didn’t understand why they would want a computer in their living room that didn’t run Windows. But now the Steam Deck has shown people that Valve can deliver a console-like PC gaming experience that gives people the best of both worlds. SteamOS has a compatibility disadvantage, but a huge UX advantage. They’ve finally sold people on the concept that Windows is not the alpha and omega of PC gaming. But I think Microsoft understands that too, and the only reason that they’re doing what they’re doing today is because they clearly see SteamOS as a huge threat in the living room.
But as the saying goes, you gotta “strike while the iron is hot”.
So if Valve sits back and allows Windows to continue to catch up to SteamOS in terms of gaming UX, then I think it’s very possible that Microsoft could sell a lot of Windows-Xboxes, killing a lot of the interest in Steam Machines.
And I’ll say that you can get a really nice AMD NUC HTPC for under 500 bucks that can handle “steam deck games” on a TV. And I THINK I have a way to get Display Port -> HDMI 2.1 that I need to sit down and test.
True, I can build my own Steam Machine by just throwing Bazzite on just about anything that’s reasonably capable. I’ve been tempted, I’m just waiting to see what Valve has up their sleeve.
But it’s not me that I’m worried about. Mass appeal comes from a company like Valve or Microsoft putting out a dedicated gaming box for a decent price that comes preinstalled with a gaming OS. I just hope it’s Valve and Linux, and not Microsoft and Windows…
Aside from the windows and armory crate bullshit (both of which go away if you install bazzite…), the ROG allies are actually pretty good hardware for their price.
Because… you aren’t driving 4k@60 for under a thousand bucks. And the ROG Ally X whatever is very comparable to laptops with similar hardware. And while I do not at all think you need that power in a handheld, people are going to notice it when it gets compared to a PS5 pro or a PS6. Which it will.
Let Sony launch the PS6 at 1k or higher. Let Microsoft somehow get the xbox series 2 out at 2k because they are pulling a The Producers or whatever. And if there is demand? Premium ass Steam Box. If there is not? MAYBE do a more premium 500-800 USD NUC. And if people REALLY love the ASUS Bumfuck ROG Seventy Seven Y Y Z or whatever? Give ASUS 20 bucks to sell a shit ton with SteamOS installed by default.
The key difference is that Valve were trying to build a market with the Steam Boxes. SteamOS is already demonstrably viable for “console” gaming and the consoles are going to be selling bigass PCs in 2027 already. Let them take the risk and then let Valve swoop in.
Which… is kinda what they did with the Steam Deck. GDP and Aya Neo put in the work to make handheld form factor laptops at semi-reasonable prices. Valve rolled up and wrecked their shit with the Steam Deck.
I’ve used a 360 emulator and I think there’s a xbone emulator but definitely not series. Perhaps they have their own in-house one. I think they’ve basically been using PC hardware forever though, and the Xbox OS is basically stripped down windows so this doesn’t seem like a huge jump. As I recall PlayStation OS is basically BSD, too, which is both sweet and not for various reasons. Exclusives are dead anyway and consoles often get sold at a loss to move games, I’d argue that all consoles should just be PCs.
Since 2013, both Sony and Microsoft have been using custom variants of AMD’s consumer chips for CPU and GPU. These consoles are basically just laptop boards with some custom architecture, but at this stage most of the “Console” design is some software level features and a consistent baseline hardware spec to shoot for.
Sony still does seem to put mor effort into the hardware portion, but Xbox hardware has been little more than an SFF PC for a couple generations now
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I’d rather have a console that doesn’t run windows.
That’s funny. It’s basically Valve’s Steam Machine strategy
The catch is, you will need Copilot and to sync everything via OneDrive.
And when you quicksave in games, you’ll need to wait 5 minutes for OneDrive to connect to Windows servers to sync up the save before you can continue playing
Wow, 5 years ago that would have totally sold me
Yeah, if the Xbox Series S/X could have played my Steam library at that price, I’d have bought one in a heartbeat just to use as a gaming box.
But they’ve already hinted that the next one will be a lot more expensive, and at that point you might as well just buy a PC…
Yeah I have the gaming rig combined with home theater setup the xbone promised and it can be done without giving Microsoft the right to spy on me (though i will concede they make a damn good controller and I appreciate that they’re still AA operated so I can just swap out my rechargeables and keep gaming). Steam and VLC and a decent gaming rig has just been a good value for a long time
I’m done buying Microsoft products they can fucking rotten hell fuck them. I’ll emulate games till I die, fuck these greedy cunts.
Boasting about not putting multiplayer behind a paywall, like they weren’t the ones to introduce that idea in the first place.
Back when Xbox Live first hit the scene, that ~$4/month definitely got you a better experience than you got for free. Now that’s not the case.
Well, it got you a better experience than whatever it was Sony were doing at the time, which was a weird ethernet adapter, and seemingly every game reinventing the idea of how online should work.
I don’t think it ever needed to be charged for, it just needed to be designed.
I only ever paid for it once they started giving away games with it. Multiplayer alone wasn’t worth it to me.
Hosting servers isn’t free. Someone, somewhere, is paying for it. It’s easy to forget that that someone used to be advertisers via GameSpy for so many games. Now, on PC, you’re paying for it via digital purchases on the same store that hosts the servers.
And it’s game devs that pay for the multiplayer server upkeep, not the storefronts.
And I highly doubt that any money spent on XBox Live or PSN subscriptions was ever sent their way.
This is just a flimsy defense for greed
It wasn’t always worth it back then, hence why it was supported with ads or a subscription. Did you ever patch your game back then? Even that was subsidized by ads; the devs didn’t host the patch files themselves in most cases. Live services, which are unfortunately all too often synonymous with online games, host their own servers, and you’re paying for them with microtransactions. If a game uses the platform’s matchmaking for peer to peer multiplayer, which was just about all of them on Xbox Live in its early days, then you’re using the servers your subscription was paying for. Even today, many still use these features. But you’re correct that the ones not using these features are still locked behind that subscription on consoles unless they’re free to play.
I think game patches were even charged to the developers, which is why a lot of them were loath to patch minor bugs.
Yeah. People very much forget how horrible most online multiplayer infrastructure was back in the early 2000s. Voice chat was a case where you used teamspeak/ventrillo for atrocious quality audio that optimally depended on using an actual phone line in conjunction or it just never worked. Messaging was basically xfire or AIM. And servers were generally listen servers that someone in your clan left running in the background when they forgot about it.
Live provided a messaging system people would actually use and tapped into MS infrastructure for voice chat that actually worked… which was great for playing with your friends and learning all new slurs when you had it on in a pub. Game servers themselves were still generally all listen servers but that changed over time.
These days? Discord has a LOT of problems but it actually works and is a much more universal platform. Server hosting infrastructure is such that there isn’t really a point in paying the platform for it. And EVERYTHING needs to be social media for people to not whinge so having a messaging system loses its value.
But also… have any of the consoles really pushed the online infrastructure as why you pay for premium? Okay, Nintendo have but they REALLY shouldn’t considering what they are offering. It is all about the IGC and has been since Sony got involved as part of the PSN hack.
Yeah, Microsoft got it to work, unlike Sony.
Roger Wilco!
I hope it inspires Sony to follow suit. In the 2020s paying for multiplayer access is absurd.
These days? I dont mind it. With the offering of the 3 games a month, it’s been fine. As someone who’s gotten old and barely plays anything, it’s nice only spending the yearly subscription and getting up to 36 games a year. Sure, not all are great, but there have been plenty of big games offered that let me play the big stuff I missed and probably still wouldn’t pay $20-$30 for.
A good example would be Alan Wake 2 this month. Really wanted to play it but couldn’t really bring myself to buy it.
Really, I think multiplayer should be free (it’s not like multiplayer games don’t nickel and dime you on top of that anyway) and the game subscription peeled out of it. I’m only interested in the “free” games anyway.
Seems worse to me than humble choice which you don’t need to play online, so you can just buy the months you like to get 8 games in your library as opposed to it being tied to multiplayer.
Then there’s Epic which gives away games every month without having to spend any money and still retain multiplayer access.
I canned Humble when it became apparent that I was just buying next months free Epic games.
I used to do humble years ago, then I remember something changed and the selections were never that good. It’s been a while since I found one worth buying. I also fo Epic every week. I have been for about 3 or 4 years now.
I’d consider August with Persona 5 Royale as a headliner good.
Shame xbox stopped letting you keep games with gold back in the 360 era.
Dang, I missed that. Honestly, I haven’t looked much at humble in years. If thats what they are still pushing, then I will definitely start following again. Thanks for the heads up.
It would be a good deal if you kept the games forever, but since they’re linked to your subscription, it ain’t worth it to me😇
I mean I pay it and the free games are all that keep me from hating it
So Steam but for Microsoft games only…
And ran by a way less reputable company.
Hopefully, they throw in some more incentives because an identical service to Steam is still going to be inferior because it’s controlled by Microsoft instead of Valve
And if they do it like the windows store currently does there’s no way to modify local files so also bye bye mods
The ability to miss games has been there for years, you could go to the game in the Xbox app and open the modifiable app data folder. The problem with this is that, developers can choose not to expose that capability on a per game basis.
Still there’s ways aroused it at least but it certainly not as straightforward.
It’s even better without the Windows.
Something tells me that part of Microsoft’s public focus here is distraction from the fact that they are losing grip on two separate markets.
It’s not that. As far as the stock market is concerned Microsoft has succeeded and plateaued. There is no where else for them to grow in the first world.
So they are not giving up on consoles. No, this marketing campaign wasn’t for us, not by a long shot. They’re going to Africa, to South America, Asia, they’re trying to lower the bar for entry so they are the first ones in everyone’s minds over there.
Don’t have an Xbox? Here’s a handheld. Can’t afford that? Game streaming from the cloud. This is infinite growth capitalism and there simply aren’t enough people to sustain that, so they need more people.
Until Microsoft changes the deal Or you have to scan your retinas to verify watching an ad before you queue for a round of Halo CE Re-Campaign remake HD remaster Master Chief Cortana Limited Edition
Please drink the verification can
Nope. They’ve just implemented verification cans instead.
A big difference here, and something that it sounds like the FSE did not nail, is that SteamOS doesn’t just boot into Big Picture Mode; it intercepts how popups and game windows are drawn to the screen so that you never lose focus of the game window. It doesn’t force you to get out a keyboard or use the touch screen to enter a login password or PIN. It’s got those important considerations for the ways a game machine differs from any other personal computer. Microsoft, with all its wealth and the code base of Windows in its control, can make those same changes, but maybe they didn’t plan for it in their code base that now surely goes back almost 30 years at this point. Best of luck to those engineers.
I don’t know if it’s actually new technology, but what Valve does for the Steam Deck is to either handle this server side or to have people with a Steam Deck essentially upload their completed shaders back to the server to be distributed to everyone else’s Steam Deck, sort of like BitTorrent. This is what I expect Microsoft will do.
It’s insane that they’ve kept that paywall for so long when it would be the easiest way to make their console more enticing than PlayStation, before they did this pivot of theirs. If the goal was Game Pass anyway, make online free and make that library on Game Pass attractive. The reason online is free on PC is because your store purchases are supporting the infrastructure that someone like Valve provides, and we crossed the threshold on consoles where digital purchases are the majority some time ago.
This is a delusional paragraph in the wake of the Epic Games Store.
From what I remember that’s exactly what MS is doing as well, xbox would let you download pre-compiled shaders for the ROG handheld. Though I don’t think you upload any of your own shaders since the xbox hardware is unified as opposed to steam having to support everybody on Linux
As far as I know, this same advantage isn’t granted to anything other than Steam Deck. On desktop, you often have a Vulkan shader step before the game boots that I rarely see on Deck. I could be wrong though.
You can skip that btw, hasn’t been necessary for a while
Huh? That is kind of just how window managers work. The game launches so it is on top. It may or may not be exclusive fullscreen these days. The game spawns up another window as part of a social media thing or because you typed
/wiki jennah's feetand then that is on top until you close it. That is, mostly, OS agnostic these days.Big Picture 100% makes you do that if there is a text input. You can choose to use your controller to navigate the keyboard and… that is a love it or hate it. From a quick google, the asus equivalent (as of 2 years ago) is that you can switch your input to desktop mode to use the joysticks as a mouse. And while that is a step down from automagically “just working”… the fact that I know that it is steam+square kinda sums up just how automagic it is with Big Picture.
My understanding, heavily tainted by Dan Ryckert’s stupidity, is that the big problem the xbox decks have is the OS login window. Yes, Microsoft need to get off their fucking asses and make that work consistently. But Valve mostly bypasses that by having a shitty pin login. That is a “I left my SteamOS laptop on my bed and someone from a dorm down the hallway stole all my money” story away from being a debacle.
Background processes can spawn pop-ups, update reminders, notifications, etc. If you listen to Dan and Bakalar’s chat on the Bombcast, even with Bakalar on the proper FSE like he’s supposed to be, you’ll hear examples of the controller inputs just not working the way they’re supposed to, often because something else spawned on top of it. You can hear the same in this GameSpot review of the Xbox Ally X from Tamoor Hussain. And I can tell you from experience, this happens on desktop Linux distros on handhelds as well.
If you shut off most of your other apps (like fucking discord) you don’t have the popups from that.
As for OS level shenanigans? Steam Big Picture alone can’t stop the mess that is KDE (Wayland?) whinging that steam input looks like a remote desktop session as far as inputs are concerned (although I finally found the setting for that after like 55 hours of Pillars 1). SteamOS/Bazzite “solve” that by having a ridiculously stripped down mode… which is not dissimilar from what MS is arguing as their “gaming mode” that will probably still not work but is conceivably that.
To be clear. Fuck ASUS. Their ROG Armory Crate shit is god damned malware.
But for a “new xbox” that is the “PC with gaming mode” that MS have been alluding to over the past few months? That is effectively what Valve are doing with SteamOS (and same with the Bazzite devs).
If you’re fine with just Big Picture Mode rather than what SteamOS or Bazzite are doing at a lower level, more power to you, but for a lot of us, it makes a huge difference in the experience, and it sounds like Microsoft’s FSE hasn’t gotten all the way there yet.
That isn’t the point.
I was more just pointing out that most (all?) of what you said is… not anything special. In fact, the big advantage seems to just be that SteamOS closes your windows for you rather than expecting you to care about going through your systray to see if you actually need banzai buddy running while you play WoW.
When Microsoft can’t do it on their FSE, it certainly feels special. But no, it’s a bit more than deciding to close something or not. Do you have a Steam Deck or a machine running Bazzite? In gaming mode, check out a game that has one of those stupid pre-launch launchers on it, like most of 2K’s games, and note how it handles that differently from a desktop OS.
Yes. I have a Steam Deck and an HTPC running bazzite. I am aware of what it does. I like what it does.
But what you are now describing is just defaulting all windows to launch in fullscreen. The rest is just the natural stack and focusing. if I double click Warframe in desktop and don’t immediately go off to do other stuff while it launches, it defaults to the launcher in focus. Just like if I launch it in big picture mode it defaults to the launcher in focus.
And you continue to assume that the asus xbox deck is the new xbox. Whereas this lines up with what MS have been saying since the last time they pivoted their entire division a few months back: the next xbox is what is going to do this and it is going to be heavily dependent on windows gaming mode. Which isn’t out yet.
lol, fuck off. Better late than never, but this shit turned me away from consoles a long, long time ago.
Steam has existed for how long?
It’s old enough to buy alcohol.
I hope that once my account turns 18 they will stop asking my for by DOB to look at mature content.
Mine is over that. They won’t.
EDIT: Meaning they won’t stop asking.
It’s starting to get annoying waiting for Valve to announce a Steam Machine and having to listen to Microsoft’s future Xbox-as-a-PC plans instead.
Just get a Steam Deck, and add a hub and wireless controller.
Oh, but it won’t run full-detail AAA releases at 4K? Nothing cheap will. That is exclusively the domain of consoles, earned through direct-contact optimization with developers. That’s still enough horsepower for the thousands of great indie games on Steam, many of which are simple enough to run fine on a midsize TV on the small Deck CPU.
Basically, if someone is adamant about running high-detail games on their TV using Steam, they’re already a niche enough market that it really doesn’t make sense to build up a single SKU for them and hope for bulk manufacturing savings the same way you could for consoles.
It’s probably better off for developers to keep targeting the Deck as a general metric point anyway. The especially good news there is, once devs do that, Linux desktop gamers benefit anyway.
All signs are that we are getting the new VR headset first.
And it is probably in Valve’s best interest to let other people drive the HTPC consoles. They are not going to be cheap since “1024 at 40 FPS” doesn’t scale all that well to a 50 inch 4k display. So let other integrators deal with that. Just release the steam controller 2 already.
And I’ll say that you can get a really nice AMD NUC HTPC for under 500 bucks that can handle “steam deck games” on a TV. And I THINK I have a way to get Display Port -> HDMI 2.1 that I need to sit down and test.
Yeah :(
I’m not sure this is a good idea, personally. The original Steam Machines and the ROG Xbox Ally are pretty good indicators that it’s not very smart to rely on OEMs to drive major change in the PC market.
The current gen consoles are basically already just standard AMD x86-64 PCs that just happen to be running locked down proprietary OSes. So it really seems like low hanging fruit to me for Valve to just put out a price-competitive Steam Machine “console” akin to the Steam Deck that boots into SteamOS and otherwise is a normal PC that with a normal UEFI bootloader. That seems both technically easier and cheaper to do than putting out yet another prohibitively expensive VR/AR device.
As a fan of Linux and FOSS, my main concern is that Valve misses a big window of opportunity by failing to capitalize on the current weakness of Xbox and Windows during this awkward transition period from traditional consoles to PCs.
When Valve put out the original Steam Machines, people didn’t understand why they would want a computer in their living room that didn’t run Windows. But now the Steam Deck has shown people that Valve can deliver a console-like PC gaming experience that gives people the best of both worlds. SteamOS has a compatibility disadvantage, but a huge UX advantage. They’ve finally sold people on the concept that Windows is not the alpha and omega of PC gaming. But I think Microsoft understands that too, and the only reason that they’re doing what they’re doing today is because they clearly see SteamOS as a huge threat in the living room.
But as the saying goes, you gotta “strike while the iron is hot”.
So if Valve sits back and allows Windows to continue to catch up to SteamOS in terms of gaming UX, then I think it’s very possible that Microsoft could sell a lot of Windows-Xboxes, killing a lot of the interest in Steam Machines.
True, I can build my own Steam Machine by just throwing Bazzite on just about anything that’s reasonably capable. I’ve been tempted, I’m just waiting to see what Valve has up their sleeve.
But it’s not me that I’m worried about. Mass appeal comes from a company like Valve or Microsoft putting out a dedicated gaming box for a decent price that comes preinstalled with a gaming OS. I just hope it’s Valve and Linux, and not Microsoft and Windows…
Aside from the windows and armory crate bullshit (both of which go away if you install bazzite…), the ROG allies are actually pretty good hardware for their price.
Because… you aren’t driving 4k@60 for under a thousand bucks. And the ROG Ally X whatever is very comparable to laptops with similar hardware. And while I do not at all think you need that power in a handheld, people are going to notice it when it gets compared to a PS5 pro or a PS6. Which it will.
Let Sony launch the PS6 at 1k or higher. Let Microsoft somehow get the xbox series 2 out at 2k because they are pulling a The Producers or whatever. And if there is demand? Premium ass Steam Box. If there is not? MAYBE do a more premium 500-800 USD NUC. And if people REALLY love the ASUS Bumfuck ROG Seventy Seven Y Y Z or whatever? Give ASUS 20 bucks to sell a shit ton with SteamOS installed by default.
The key difference is that Valve were trying to build a market with the Steam Boxes. SteamOS is already demonstrably viable for “console” gaming and the consoles are going to be selling bigass PCs in 2027 already. Let them take the risk and then let Valve swoop in.
Which… is kinda what they did with the Steam Deck. GDP and Aya Neo put in the work to make handheld form factor laptops at semi-reasonable prices. Valve rolled up and wrecked their shit with the Steam Deck.
Full bore windows? I’m out.
Needs Xbox Bazzite Edition
I’ve used a 360 emulator and I think there’s a xbone emulator but definitely not series. Perhaps they have their own in-house one. I think they’ve basically been using PC hardware forever though, and the Xbox OS is basically stripped down windows so this doesn’t seem like a huge jump. As I recall PlayStation OS is basically BSD, too, which is both sweet and not for various reasons. Exclusives are dead anyway and consoles often get sold at a loss to move games, I’d argue that all consoles should just be PCs.
Since 2013, both Sony and Microsoft have been using custom variants of AMD’s consumer chips for CPU and GPU. These consoles are basically just laptop boards with some custom architecture, but at this stage most of the “Console” design is some software level features and a consistent baseline hardware spec to shoot for.
Sony still does seem to put mor effort into the hardware portion, but Xbox hardware has been little more than an SFF PC for a couple generations now