As the title suggests, over the last couple of days there’s been an influx of doomer comments over the SKG petition. While it’s fine to disagree, I’m finding it suspicious that there weren’t comments like this posted a week or 2 ago
I’m not against the goal. But I have voiced that I don’t think this route/configuration of leadership will work.
I only heard about it once people on Lemmy started talking shit about this pirate guy. I hadn’t heard about him either. So it came on my radar as drama. And I ended up having a rough time sharing my point of view. People are really emotional about this intuitive. They take any criticism as an attack that could harm progress on signatures.
In the end the drama with this pirate dork ended up actually bringing positive attention that helped an otherwise flagging initiative for signatures.
But I have voiced that I don’t think this route/configuration of leadership will work.
Could you elaborate on this, beyond the one sentence? The rest of your comment makes it clear that you weren’t aware, and still aren’t about much of what was going on with SKG. Given that you don’t have a clear understanding of what the timeline of SKG was, that does leave room for doubt that you understand the initiative. I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, so please explain what you meant.
I don’t jive with the guy heading it up. With the way he communicates the message, with the style of video he makes, or with the approach of a petition. I think all of that combined is a weight on the effort.
That’s where I’ll leave it though. Cuz I’m just one guy. No need to throw a bunch of downvotes on this. My voice won’t hurt the cause.
Sorry, but there is no one else. Are you going to give your savings away for this? No one would, but he’s doing it.
He has an online following that expect his style of video, but regardless of that, this is the same thing that made piratesoftware hate in the projext blindly, he didn’t like the look of the guy and the aesthetics.
Really? Grow up, why do you care how the video looks? Have you ever tried writing script, setting up a studio, recording, editing, publishing and designing a video? I do this professionally and it can takes weeks or months to have something that looks moderately acceptable. Why do you care about the aesthetics? I don’t get it
You’re calling me childish, and making assumptions about what I have and have not done in video production and related fields. And I’m being downvoted for sharing my opinion after being asked for it by the OP and someone replying.
No, there was definitely some criticism before. Prior to this month, it wouldn’t be unusual to hear people complain about how it would destroy the live service market and was therefore Bad Actually for games and game preservation
The topic getting much more mainstream just brought all those people with.
so far the only legit critique I’ve seen is the uncertainty of what this will mean to indie devs - will they be forced to sign with publishers who can assist with compliance etc., what will compliance actually look like to small shops, etc.
I will say this: the vast majority of game devs feel the same way and want to be able to play the games we paid for as well. there’s just a bit of fear of the unknown for small devs.
It makes sense if you are completely consumer-brained and only see it as “companies will make less (live service) games if they are forced to support them/let them be community supported”
No, remember, it only makes sense if you are consumer-brained
Less live service games = less consooming. Some people literally don’t care about things that are in their best interest, they will happily pay $120 for a game that has pay2win microtransactions and requires a monthly subscription and will also shutdown after 18 months, as long as there is a new one to buy after it.
There are a handful of concerns from insiders are that somewhat valid, more or less things to be careful about when trying to sort out how to make this fair and reasonable to both sides.
You can ponder how long from shutdown of an online server until the companies IP is no longer worth anything because they have to give up keys to playing it without subs. Same goes for anti-piracy. If A goes under and is bought up by B, how long is that timer before the assets aren’t worth anything anymore.
But all those concepts get thrown the hell out the window when CEOS stick their fingers in their ears and start stamping their feet and shouting “nothing is written in stone” “at some point the service may be discontinued” “Nothing is eternal” when in fact all those problems can be solved. Fucking tone-deaf asshats. Costs you money, sorry nothing is eternal. Costs them money, ohhh noooo can’t do that it might cost money.
When you launch a title with online requirements, you have to escrow or insure the servers for X months and escrow code. When you sell or fold, you then have X months to work out a new buyer or maintainer. At the end of X months. you either keep the game online through other means (sales) or provide server binaries, serverless binaries, or details/code to keep the game running indefinitely.
There’s always been criticism but until now it’s been low level insiders and nobodies like pirate software. And the reasons the publishers and big names that would be affected did SKGs didn’t say or do anything until now because they didn’t want to give it any oxygen. They were smart enough to ignore it because they knew if they said anything it’d rile up a shift storm. Which is exactly what Pirate Software did so he’s probably got a lot of people on both sides pissed at him for being too narcissistic to shut up and let the movement die.
Now that it has enough signatures to be taken seriously you’re going to see the fire hoses open up and a lot of misinformation spread about how the movement would make the gaming industry unviable for the current model. Now is the point where if you are an EU citizen that you write and call your representatives who would consider this issue and help write the law if it did pass on how important it would be to you personally to not allow game companies to revoke your ability to utilize a game you paid for.
pissed at him for being too narcissistic to shut up and let the movement die.
You’ve got a typo there. What you meant to write was “pissed at him for struggling with managing the symptoms from his narcissistic personality disorder diagnosis too much to shut up and let the movement die.”
While I am against using illnesses as slurs, I am 99% sure Elon Musk has NPD even if was never officially diagnosed, which he would avoid for obvious reasons.
So I wouldnt count this instance as using an illness as a slur.
If he does have NPD, then we’re back to the issue that the general population needs to start referring to mental disorders with respectful and empathetic language, because this creates a culture of tolerance that will be visible to other people with the disorder.
You know that someone can act like something without being that thing right? You can say someone is narcissistic without them being an actual narcissist.
Like me saying that you’re stupid shouldn’t imply that you’ve had a traumatic brain injury or were born without a frontal lobe.
That’s a false equivalence. “Stupid” isn’t the same as any of the words in the diagnosis “mental retardation” (recently updated to intellectual disability). Your example would work better if you did it like this:
Like me saying that you’re retarded shouldn’t imply that you have mental retardation.
There, that’s a much closer analogy. Do you still stand by your point if we use a proper equivalence?
Putting the focus on the personal struggle of managing the symptoms is more empathetic, and using the full name of the diagnosis instead of contracted nouns helps avoid using slurs and/or dehumanising the patent.
Your comment has a typo. You meant to write “human beings who developed narcissistic personality disorder due to childhood trauma and now struggle with identity and empathy to the detriment of their own wellbeing as described in the DSM 5 are literally destroying our planet and our way of life”
and using the full name of the diagnosis instead of contracted nouns helps avoid using slurs and/or dehumanising the patent.
You’ve got a typo there. Unless you can prove that said person was indeed diagnosed with such disability by an appropriate medical authority, let’s not use such term that could either be considered defamation, or at least medical disinformation. (/i)
People say what they intend to say, not what you wish them to. If you believe they are incorrect, no need to be pedantic about it. Just argue why, you’d find out people are way more open to arguments when they do not feel like you are condidering them as idiots.
Are people criticizing it? There is a certain critical mass that when something becomes popular enough a subset of the population will automatically oppose it.
Maybe not specifically this comm, but I had been sporadically arguing with people on various places on lemmy about SKG before Ross even dropped his ‘SKG is probably dead’ video that (re)ignited this whole thing.
A whole, whole lot of people I talked to basically had the same talking points Thor initially did, a lot of them were dedicated to various facts that were simply wrong, rhetoric that was either bipolar/hypocritical, or just ultimately nihlist (nothing can be done).
I was actually very relieved, initially, when Ross made above mentioned video, simply so I would no longer have to keep explaining all the various intricacies… Ross had addresed all this stuff before, but you’d have to watch about 2 or 3 hours of videos to truly get it, in all its detail.
The ‘SKG is probably dead’ video did a good job of doing both a broad overview, as well as going into detail with the more common, in-depth misunderstandings… which were pretty much all popularized by Thor.
I saw it posted on here much before it reached the threshold.
I think that before then it was really just a few people running with it, now that it has gotten momentum, more people are sharing and we run in similar circles so it can appear to be overwhelming.
Yes, this is a legit thing the EU cares about. However that’s also why I’ve always wondered why they’re soliciting signatures outside the EU…
Didn’t it come out that the people who pushed payroll processors to force studios to censor, have been found out to be a bunch of far right religious extremists who definitely aren’t going to stop here.
More attention means more people see it, so even if the percentage of complainers haven’t changed, there are more people who know.
On top of that, there was criticism before. There’s that streamer who was mocked relentlessly in comments and some defending him, there were articles about game developer lobby groups complaining that were posted here, etc.
Enjoy your perpetual unavoidable and even undetectable bias and opinion influencing astroturfing.
Paid for by whoever doesn’t want the things that you want, to influence the people around you to bite at each other’s throats and work against their own interests.
Why would they? Most people didn’t know about the petition until a few weeks ago, and I think people are largely knee-jerk supporting their favorite streamer (in this case, PirateSoftware). I don’t think there’s a concerted effort here to kill it, just people coming out of the woodwork now that it got a lot of attention.
Perhaps, which I think is really unfortunate. I think he misread or misunderstood what the petition was about, and doubled down instead of taking a step back.
But he’s not going to be making a bunch of accounts on random message boards like Lemmy to try to kill it. The more reasonable argument is that some of his fans and other people who disagree w/ the petition are attacking it, not that he or the games industry cares enough to come here and spread FUD, I think regular people are dumb and emotional enough to do that for them.
I’m not concerned with it. I’ve looked into it a bit, and it seems like PirateSoftware ruined his own reputation. It just took his very visible cockup in that WoW raid for people to realize that he lies a lot and refuses to acknowledge when he’s wrong.
I think he misread or misunderstood what the petition was about
Possibly. I’m not going to speculate on that because it’s not really important.
But he’s not going to be making a bunch of accounts on random message boards like Lemmy to try to kill it.
I doubt it as well. I’m more suspicious of corporate astroturfing. And Lemmy isn’t too small of a target for it, since astroturfing is pretty cheap.
Yeah, I haven’t found a reason to care about PS beyond showing courtesy to people who went out of their way to provide receipts for their claims. I also haven’t seen enough to warrant ruining his life. That’s about as much effort as I care to spend here.
The bigger concern is what happens at the EU. Surely that’s where corporations are going to focus their energy, because it’s a lot easier to convince some bureaucrats than millions of gamers. Sure, some negative press helps, but the real impact is made by lobbyists.
I’m not concerned with it. I’ve looked into it a bit, and it seems like PirateSoftware ruined his own reputation. It just took his very visible cockup in that WoW raid for people to realize that he lies a lot and refuses to acknowledge when he’s wrong.
I think he misread or misunderstood what the petition was about
Possibly. I’m not going to speculate on that because it’s not really important.
But he’s not going to be making a bunch of accounts on random message boards like Lemmy to try to kill it.
I doubt it as well. I’m more suspicious of corporate astroturfing. And Lemmy isn’t too small of a target for it, since astroturfing is pretty cheap.
Do you have specific examples of him making multiple accounts to amplify a message? If so, that would certainly change my opinion of him and would explain a lot of the unsubstantiated claims made here.
So TL; DW for anyone that made it down this far: PS’s mod made a Twitch alt presumably for the purpose of buying bits to keep a hype train going. Whether this is legal or consistent with the Twitch TOS is debatable.
It’s so stupid to think that small message boards are spared; small boards are where they infest with the most enthusiasm; you infiltrate a hundred small boards, one grows into the mainstream and now you have a socmed in your control.
People have opinions. No everyone disagreeing with one opinion or other is a paid actor.
I’m all for SKG. I signed it. And I haven’t actually seen much criticism at all here. But if someone were to disagree I won’t automatically think it’s a paid actor, probably just a person with an opinion.
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I’m not against the goal. But I have voiced that I don’t think this route/configuration of leadership will work.
I only heard about it once people on Lemmy started talking shit about this pirate guy. I hadn’t heard about him either. So it came on my radar as drama. And I ended up having a rough time sharing my point of view. People are really emotional about this intuitive. They take any criticism as an attack that could harm progress on signatures.
In the end the drama with this pirate dork ended up actually bringing positive attention that helped an otherwise flagging initiative for signatures.
I hope the initiative causes positive change.
Could you elaborate on this, beyond the one sentence? The rest of your comment makes it clear that you weren’t aware, and still aren’t about much of what was going on with SKG. Given that you don’t have a clear understanding of what the timeline of SKG was, that does leave room for doubt that you understand the initiative. I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, so please explain what you meant.
We all do.
I don’t jive with the guy heading it up. With the way he communicates the message, with the style of video he makes, or with the approach of a petition. I think all of that combined is a weight on the effort.
That’s where I’ll leave it though. Cuz I’m just one guy. No need to throw a bunch of downvotes on this. My voice won’t hurt the cause.
Sorry, but there is no one else. Are you going to give your savings away for this? No one would, but he’s doing it.
He has an online following that expect his style of video, but regardless of that, this is the same thing that made piratesoftware hate in the projext blindly, he didn’t like the look of the guy and the aesthetics.
Really? Grow up, why do you care how the video looks? Have you ever tried writing script, setting up a studio, recording, editing, publishing and designing a video? I do this professionally and it can takes weeks or months to have something that looks moderately acceptable. Why do you care about the aesthetics? I don’t get it
Why are you so concerned with my opinion?
It’s just a conversation
You’re calling me childish, and making assumptions about what I have and have not done in video production and related fields. And I’m being downvoted for sharing my opinion after being asked for it by the OP and someone replying.
It just doesn’t feel like “just a conversation.”
Take this upvote, I didn’t mean to be rude
No, there was definitely some criticism before. Prior to this month, it wouldn’t be unusual to hear people complain about how it would destroy the live service market and was therefore Bad Actually for games and game preservation
The topic getting much more mainstream just brought all those people with.
so far the only legit critique I’ve seen is the uncertainty of what this will mean to indie devs - will they be forced to sign with publishers who can assist with compliance etc., what will compliance actually look like to small shops, etc.
I will say this: the vast majority of game devs feel the same way and want to be able to play the games we paid for as well. there’s just a bit of fear of the unknown for small devs.
The implication that “games as a service” is somehow a positive for game preservation is its own kind of illiteracy.
It makes sense if you are completely consumer-brained and only see it as “companies will make less (live service) games if they are forced to support them/let them be community supported”
Isn’t that a win win tho? Less live service games?
The industry is already horrible to work in.
No, remember, it only makes sense if you are consumer-brained
Less live service games = less consooming. Some people literally don’t care about things that are in their best interest, they will happily pay $120 for a game that has pay2win microtransactions and requires a monthly subscription and will also shutdown after 18 months, as long as there is a new one to buy after it.
Well with the support that’s come from mainstream gaming influencers, I hope the opinion has swayed in the opposite direction.
There are a handful of concerns from insiders are that somewhat valid, more or less things to be careful about when trying to sort out how to make this fair and reasonable to both sides.
You can ponder how long from shutdown of an online server until the companies IP is no longer worth anything because they have to give up keys to playing it without subs. Same goes for anti-piracy. If A goes under and is bought up by B, how long is that timer before the assets aren’t worth anything anymore.
But all those concepts get thrown the hell out the window when CEOS stick their fingers in their ears and start stamping their feet and shouting “nothing is written in stone” “at some point the service may be discontinued” “Nothing is eternal” when in fact all those problems can be solved. Fucking tone-deaf asshats. Costs you money, sorry nothing is eternal. Costs them money, ohhh noooo can’t do that it might cost money.
When you launch a title with online requirements, you have to escrow or insure the servers for X months and escrow code. When you sell or fold, you then have X months to work out a new buyer or maintainer. At the end of X months. you either keep the game online through other means (sales) or provide server binaries, serverless binaries, or details/code to keep the game running indefinitely.
There’s always been criticism but until now it’s been low level insiders and nobodies like pirate software. And the reasons the publishers and big names that would be affected did SKGs didn’t say or do anything until now because they didn’t want to give it any oxygen. They were smart enough to ignore it because they knew if they said anything it’d rile up a shift storm. Which is exactly what Pirate Software did so he’s probably got a lot of people on both sides pissed at him for being too narcissistic to shut up and let the movement die.
Now that it has enough signatures to be taken seriously you’re going to see the fire hoses open up and a lot of misinformation spread about how the movement would make the gaming industry unviable for the current model. Now is the point where if you are an EU citizen that you write and call your representatives who would consider this issue and help write the law if it did pass on how important it would be to you personally to not allow game companies to revoke your ability to utilize a game you paid for.
You’ve got a typo there. What you meant to write was “pissed at him for struggling with managing the symptoms from his narcissistic personality disorder diagnosis too much to shut up and let the movement die.”
Does he actually have a diagnosis or are you making that up or assuming things?
He probably doesn’t, and Rakonat shouldn’t have assumed
You know hes using a figure of speech right? Are you protesting the usage of narcissism as an unofficial negative descriptor?
Yes. Just like “retard” and “gay”.
While I am against using illnesses as slurs, I am 99% sure Elon Musk has NPD even if was never officially diagnosed, which he would avoid for obvious reasons. So I wouldnt count this instance as using an illness as a slur.
If he does have NPD, then we’re back to the issue that the general population needs to start referring to mental disorders with respectful and empathetic language, because this creates a culture of tolerance that will be visible to other people with the disorder.
You know that someone can act like something without being that thing right? You can say someone is narcissistic without them being an actual narcissist.
Like me saying that you’re stupid shouldn’t imply that you’ve had a traumatic brain injury or were born without a frontal lobe.
That’s a false equivalence. “Stupid” isn’t the same as any of the words in the diagnosis “mental retardation” (recently updated to intellectual disability). Your example would work better if you did it like this:
There, that’s a much closer analogy. Do you still stand by your point if we use a proper equivalence?
Are you trying to roleplay as your username?
Excuse the ignorance, what’s the difference?
Putting the focus on the personal struggle of managing the symptoms is more empathetic, and using the full name of the diagnosis instead of contracted nouns helps avoid using slurs and/or dehumanising the patent.
Oh go Piss off, Elon
You’re saying Elon Musk is an ally to disabled people?? Are you part of the Nazi cult?
Narcissists are literally destroying our planet and our way of life, but let’s make sure we don’t offend anyone when we mention them.
Your comment has a typo. You meant to write “human beings who developed narcissistic personality disorder due to childhood trauma and now struggle with identity and empathy to the detriment of their own wellbeing as described in the DSM 5 are literally destroying our planet and our way of life”
Your username has a typo
Fucking lmao
I cant tell what youre doing
Assuming good intentions from others, fully aware that doing so turns their messages into nonsense.
You’ve got a typo there. Unless you can prove that said person was indeed diagnosed with such disability by an appropriate medical authority, let’s not use such term that could either be considered defamation, or at least medical disinformation. (/i)
People say what they intend to say, not what you wish them to. If you believe they are incorrect, no need to be pedantic about it. Just argue why, you’d find out people are way more open to arguments when they do not feel like you are condidering them as idiots.
I don’t think he has NPD at all, I think Rakonat is mistaken to randomly accuse him of mental illness just because they don’t like him.
Are people criticizing it? There is a certain critical mass that when something becomes popular enough a subset of the population will automatically oppose it.
There’s also a threshold where Industry Groups will start astroturfing. Especially when it comes to worker’s rights or consumer’s rights.
It seems like it’s a bit too late now to start astroturfing this though
It’s a fine line because if you do it too early you’ll just add more attention to it. They probably predicted it would stall out.
Maybe not specifically this comm, but I had been sporadically arguing with people on various places on lemmy about SKG before Ross even dropped his ‘SKG is probably dead’ video that (re)ignited this whole thing.
A whole, whole lot of people I talked to basically had the same talking points Thor initially did, a lot of them were dedicated to various facts that were simply wrong, rhetoric that was either bipolar/hypocritical, or just ultimately nihlist (nothing can be done).
I was actually very relieved, initially, when Ross made above mentioned video, simply so I would no longer have to keep explaining all the various intricacies… Ross had addresed all this stuff before, but you’d have to watch about 2 or 3 hours of videos to truly get it, in all its detail.
The ‘SKG is probably dead’ video did a good job of doing both a broad overview, as well as going into detail with the more common, in-depth misunderstandings… which were pretty much all popularized by Thor.
I saw it posted on here much before it reached the threshold. I think that before then it was really just a few people running with it, now that it has gotten momentum, more people are sharing and we run in similar circles so it can appear to be overwhelming.
This
So much internet space wasted for mundane thing,
Is This petition even automatic to get to the board of European Commission or European leaders?
If not, then it’s waste of time,
Also I have zero knowledge about European Legislation, to be honest so I maybe in wrong
Pretty sure:
Yes, this is a legit thing the EU cares about. However that’s also why I’ve always wondered why they’re soliciting signatures outside the EU…
Didn’t it come out that the people who pushed payroll processors to force studios to censor, have been found out to be a bunch of far right religious extremists who definitely aren’t going to stop here.
There is also a UK petition, which has itself cleared the required threshold. Are those the out-of-EU signatures you mean?
It’s possible there’s multiple out there
I just at one point also wondered what the point of a petition was because I’m a jaded American
2: Yes. https://youtu.be/DEflTJjtn5w
deleted by creator
Right
Not at all.
More attention means more people see it, so even if the percentage of complainers haven’t changed, there are more people who know.
On top of that, there was criticism before. There’s that streamer who was mocked relentlessly in comments and some defending him, there were articles about game developer lobby groups complaining that were posted here, etc.
Welcome to the age of bots.
Enjoy your perpetual unavoidable and even undetectable bias and opinion influencing astroturfing.
Paid for by whoever doesn’t want the things that you want, to influence the people around you to bite at each other’s throats and work against their own interests.
This is one of the biggest reasons Reddit has turned to shit.
Why would they? Most people didn’t know about the petition until a few weeks ago, and I think people are largely knee-jerk supporting their favorite streamer (in this case, PirateSoftware). I don’t think there’s a concerted effort here to kill it, just people coming out of the woodwork now that it got a lot of attention.
This may have killed piratesoftwares career
Perhaps, which I think is really unfortunate. I think he misread or misunderstood what the petition was about, and doubled down instead of taking a step back.
But he’s not going to be making a bunch of accounts on random message boards like Lemmy to try to kill it. The more reasonable argument is that some of his fans and other people who disagree w/ the petition are attacking it, not that he or the games industry cares enough to come here and spread FUD, I think regular people are dumb and emotional enough to do that for them.
I’m not concerned with it. I’ve looked into it a bit, and it seems like PirateSoftware ruined his own reputation. It just took his very visible cockup in that WoW raid for people to realize that he lies a lot and refuses to acknowledge when he’s wrong.
Possibly. I’m not going to speculate on that because it’s not really important.
I doubt it as well. I’m more suspicious of corporate astroturfing. And Lemmy isn’t too small of a target for it, since astroturfing is pretty cheap.
Yeah, I haven’t found a reason to care about PS beyond showing courtesy to people who went out of their way to provide receipts for their claims. I also haven’t seen enough to warrant ruining his life. That’s about as much effort as I care to spend here.
The bigger concern is what happens at the EU. Surely that’s where corporations are going to focus their energy, because it’s a lot easier to convince some bureaucrats than millions of gamers. Sure, some negative press helps, but the real impact is made by lobbyists.
I’m not concerned with it. I’ve looked into it a bit, and it seems like PirateSoftware ruined his own reputation. It just took his very visible cockup in that WoW raid for people to realize that he lies a lot and refuses to acknowledge when he’s wrong.
Possibly. I’m not going to speculate on that because it’s not really important.
I doubt it as well. I’m more suspicious of corporate astroturfing. And Lemmy isn’t too small of a target for it, since astroturfing is pretty cheap.
Why not? He’s done that in other plataforms
Do you have specific examples of him making multiple accounts to amplify a message? If so, that would certainly change my opinion of him and would explain a lot of the unsubstantiated claims made here.
I don’t consider this as evidence, but maybe you find it entertaining: https://youtu.be/1YYNAruSye4
Interesting.
So TL; DW for anyone that made it down this far: PS’s mod made a Twitch alt presumably for the purpose of buying bits to keep a hype train going. Whether this is legal or consistent with the Twitch TOS is debatable.
Lemmy is way too small and insignificant for Industry Plants to be posting on here about SKG, if that is what you are implying.
Lol you are funny. Propaganda doesn’t come here!
Industry shills will show up on a obscure message board that only a handful of people have ever seen. They are everywhere, they are here.
It’s so stupid to think that small message boards are spared; small boards are where they infest with the most enthusiasm; you infiltrate a hundred small boards, one grows into the mainstream and now you have a socmed in your control.
Not only that, you then link to that enthousiastic small board on the big one, as “unbiased source”
People have opinions. No everyone disagreeing with one opinion or other is a paid actor.
I’m all for SKG. I signed it. And I haven’t actually seen much criticism at all here. But if someone were to disagree I won’t automatically think it’s a paid actor, probably just a person with an opinion.
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The smaller a community is, the more influence you have. Propaganda here is much more effective than on Reddit
Well certain EU politicians support SKG, so yeah it’s making a lot of corpos uncomfy
The bot farms and clout grasping social climbers don’t care about things until they reqch a certain size.
I made some critical posts about it several months ago. It was exhausting. So I stopped. Haven’t changed my position though.
Attention work both ways.
People who were not aware, now are. From all sides.