PAYDAY 3 is one of the most anticipated cooperative titles of this 2023 that will allow us to enjoy alone or accompanied by friends (or other players) a lot
The official Steam page for Deep Silver and Starbreeze’s PAYDAY 3 game has been updated to show the use of this ever-controversial third-party DRM.
Why are we still preordering AAA digital video games from multi-million dollar corporations?There is no incentive to preorder AAA video games anymore - long gone are the days of midnight launches for physical games.
Cyberpunk 2077
Returnal
Forsaken
The Lord of the Rings: Gollum
Fallout 76
Grand Theft Auto: Definitive Edition
The Last of Us Part 1
No Man’s Sky
Etc. ad nauseum
All of these games came with a half-assed apology from the publisher and how “this wasn’t their intention”. Yes, it was absolutely their intention. They released a knowingly broken game and charged us full price for it. They already got our money and laughed because they know we’re too stupid to do anything about it and that they’ve trained us well with “fear of missing out”.
How many times do us gamers need to get burned by video game publishers until we learn our lesson?
Stop rewarding and encouraging their predatory behavior. Opt out of this abusive practice by not preordering and voting with your wallet. Let them earn your money, so “they can feel a sense of pride and accomplishment”.
Pc had issues when it came to that platform, things like crashing and inability to launch the game. But that’s nothing compared to its debut on PS5. When it came to PS5, sometimes you’d lose your save file.
All those problems eventually got patched. When games get patched and they’re stable, that’s when it’s time to buy (especially because you’ll get a “definitive edition” for less money than the sorry state at launch). I like being a patient gamer when it comes to AAA games.
I focused my mind and routed energy into my right index finger. I used my finger to maneuver my mouse wheel to gently complete a scrolling action to shift the web page up, but only ever so slightly. This maneuver allows me to find my comment quickly where I provided the answer.
Exhausted, but not yet beaten, I steeled my mind to locate the hyperlink to this comment. I did this by right clicking and copying the link to my clipboard
“not yet!” I screamed defiantly. I was not yet beaten. I had one final thing to complete before my journey ends - I need to provide this link to you.
With my last breaths, I channeled the last of my energy to complete a paste action to provide you the hyperlink to my comment.
Exhausted, spent, and my life force drained, I present to you my last hoorah. My greatest achievement. I provide you with the hyperlink to my comment. Cherish this moment.
Now that I have completed my assignment, I can now retire from this realm. My journey is over, and I’m proud of myself for being able to help you. Good luck in your journeys, and always remember me as the person who delivered you my comment. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your patience. I can retire, satisfied.
Yes, and yes. It lacks a lot of features, the performance is terrible and it has a tonne of bugs. It’s like taking KSP and swapping the times when it glitches when the times it doesn’t. That’s how bad it is.
All of us got burned with an expensive lesson. But it was well-learned. Now, you won’t get burned again and are a smarter customer thanks to games like KSP2.
The comment was talking about broken games. If a game is broken, you will find out in two hours. If the game sucks and you buy it, it doesn’t matter if you pre-order or buy 6 months later.
It really depends. There are some fan-fucking-tastic games that I did preorder, like FFXVI, Metro Exodus, SF6, TLOU:2 (I didn’t like the story, gameplay + graphics saved it for me), Zelda: TOTK, Elden Ring… the list goes on.
I preordered Zelda Tears of the Kingdom, a physical Switch cartridge. I took a gamble with that but I decided to risk it since: Nintendo has a stellar track record of creating almost perfectly optimized first-party games throughout their entire history, and Zelda’s been in development for over 5 years. That was the exception I made, and I guess I got lucky. One day Nintendo might sully their track record. That’s probably when I’ll stop preordering physical Zelda games if they ever lose my trust.
When you preorder these other games, you certainly have to calculate that risk. Cyberpunk 2077 was made by a developer with a wonderful track record of producing fantastic video games. A lot of people trusted them and preordered, and those with lower hardware that met minimum requirements got burned while those that had superior hardware were fine. A gamble that didn’t pay off too well at launch when people trusted a stellar publisher and developer.
Regardless of the game, it doesn’t make sense to preorder digital titles. There will always be ones that knock it out of the park, but if they do release a wonderful game, certainly buy it but don’t preorder it. Reward them with your money only after they prove they’ve released a good game that’s worth it’s cost. Else, we continue this cycle and publishers will continue to repeat the same behavior without consequence.
It’s a DRM scheme to protect against piracy. Over the years I saw more and more shitty titles use Denuvo on release because God forbid someone steal their cash grab. A lot of titles that are of quality usually do not see the need for Denuvo.
Therefore, nowadays, for me Denuvo serves as an indicator of a potentially shitty release. They slap Denuvo on top of it so that they can pump & dump.
Maybe I’ll buy the game when it’s on sale, but for now I am too skeptical, especially since slapping additional DRM on an already DRM’d game (it’s multiplayer only and always online, unlike previous parts that allowed offline play) does not make any sense to me.
Denuvo in particular causes performance issues. And drm in general just gives the paying customer an inferior product when the pirates will just just get the better version.
There have been instances where it worsens performance. My computer is mid tier-ish at this point (3070, i7 10700k) and I haven’t noticed any poor performance from games running Denuvo (latest I tried Dead Island 2). It’s likely worse performance loss on older systems, but those older systems probably can’t run new AAA games well as it is.
I think most people don’t like the fact that it takes a while to crack games running Denuvo, so they’re not able to be pirated for that time.
Edit: Seems the below statement was factually incorrect. Oops!
It’s a very obnoxious and heavy-handed approach to anti-piracy measures. It slows down games, kills framerates, gives users a whole host of other performance issues, and just makes the experience worse overall. It’s a product that doesn’t even seem to care to improve, because they make their money from publishers, not the people who buy and play the game. Many people hate it, and I believe it’s absolutely justified.
There isn’t a lot of evidence to back these claims up. For most users, it’s entirely transparent. You would never know a game shipped with Denuvo unless your first launch is offline and it fails to authenticate.
There have been games that had their performance impacted, but I don’t think it’s the norm. Games like Doom 2016 shipped with it and saw no performance gains when Denuvo was eventually patched out. I think titles like Rime and RE8 are usually the exception, but it’s something I always watch out for in reviews. If a game runs bad, I don’t buy it, regardless of the cause.
Denuvo has proven successful for 2 reasons:
It’s actually effective. Games go months or even years without a crack.
It’s nowhere near as draconian as what came before (TAGES, StarForce, SecuROM, etc). Most players aren’t even aware of its existence. They just buy these games on Steam and they work, which is why all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on in these threads never accomplishes anything.
Honest question here. Could it be possibly that as they improved their DRM with more triggers and methods that it has started to impact performance since 2016?
As Empress was cracking Denuvo, I wouldnt be surprised if they started to quickly add extra defencive measures compromising what could have been optimised in the past.
I don’t think so, because it has become less common over time for Denuvo to be the cause of bad performance. Doom 2016 is an early good example, likely because Id Software takes optimization very seriously. Stories of games having bad performance due to DRM were a lot more common back then. The worst example I can recall was Rime in 2017, which was borderline unplayable until the developers removed Denuvo in a patch.
So, I went back and tried to look for a source, but you’re right. Thanks for informing me! From the few sources I read, those issues were debunked, exaggerated, or due to bad implementation. I want to add that I still don’t like the idea of Denuvo (or any other DRM) on digital media that I purchase, but that’s a different topic.
Fwiw, Denuvo is actually really hard to crack. There’s like one well-known person who is capable and she’s incredibly unlikeable. Agreeable sentiment though; Denuvo sucks and harms legitimate consumers (arguably more than it inconveniences pirates).
Eh that’s not really true. When she was working on Hogwarts Legacy that’s when her really crazy side showed and she got a massive cult following as a result.
One can surely run his own server for payday 3 to connect to. I’m not really knowledgable about game hacking but I guess a DRM will make this more difficult.
Agreed. I gave up on PD2 because their update scheme involved reinstalling the goddamned game every couple of weeks. Massive pain in the ass for a hotfix.
Overkill blew all their money with that WW2 spin off. And it crashed so hard there was a John Cleese shaped crater where it hit rock bottom.
They were only able to make Payday 3 with significant external investment. So basically, PD3 is going to be a gutted and whored game since those investors will get significant say what goes into the game. Denuovo just being the most obvious right now.
IIRC payday 2 had glacially slow progression at launch. Now what if you could simply pay some (more) money to skip those boring early levels this time around?
I looked into it some more and it seems there was a “shady” script you could use to grant yourself any piece of paid dlc you wanted, so The Money People probably asked how they could ensure that doesn’t happen again and just didn’t care about the drawbacks for regular people.
I could be misremembering and I’m not going to look it up right now, but I believe Payday 2 lost to corpo greed long ago when they added a bunch of microtransactions. There was also something about the original devs being screwed over if memory serves.
Personally, I’m fine with mtx if it supports continual development of a game i paid for and enjoyed prior to them being added. As long as the actual meaningful game additions are free or 1-time transactions.
What i don’t like is constant FOMO based p2w mechanics that are a requirement to play in any meaningful way, like most mobile time walled games. I also don’t like when corpos make decisions like adding DRM to an always online game, that is known to impact users, just points to a devs inability or a monetary kick back of said 3rd party drm to the devs shareholders.
It’ll be on game pass so I’ll probably still test it out, but I really don’t get why a Payday game would need anti-piracy measures since the whole point is to play co-op
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Boooo.
I like to use Denuvo as an indicator of a bad release. For someone with over 3k hours on PAYDAY 2, I just cancelled my preorder.
Thank you for the fun times OVERKILL, sad to see you go this way.
The fact that you even gave them money and had a preorder to cancel in the first place means you’re part of the problem, my friend.
Stop preordering.
I usually don’t preorder games, PAYDAY is the exception, I have over 1k hours in the first game and over 3k hours in the second game.
Doesn’t matter. People said the same shit about having thousands of hours in CD projeckt red games and then we’re disappointed in cyberpunk
“Don’t preorder games” doesn’t mean “don’t preorder unless it’s your favorite series”.
It means don’t fucking give anybody money for a game that’s not fucking out yet, period.
Why are we still preordering AAA digital video games from multi-million dollar corporations?There is no incentive to preorder AAA video games anymore - long gone are the days of midnight launches for physical games.
All of these games came with a half-assed apology from the publisher and how “this wasn’t their intention”. Yes, it was absolutely their intention. They released a knowingly broken game and charged us full price for it. They already got our money and laughed because they know we’re too stupid to do anything about it and that they’ve trained us well with “fear of missing out”.
How many times do us gamers need to get burned by video game publishers until we learn our lesson?
Stop rewarding and encouraging their predatory behavior. Opt out of this abusive practice by not preordering and voting with your wallet. Let them earn your money, so “they can feel a sense of pride and accomplishment”.
Based
What was broken about Returnal?
Pc had issues when it came to that platform, things like crashing and inability to launch the game. But that’s nothing compared to its debut on PS5. When it came to PS5, sometimes you’d lose your save file.
All those problems eventually got patched. When games get patched and they’re stable, that’s when it’s time to buy (especially because you’ll get a “definitive edition” for less money than the sorry state at launch). I like being a patient gamer when it comes to AAA games.
What was broken in Returnal on launch? Unless you mean the pc relaunch, I didn’t pay attention to that.
I posted in this thread about it.
Okay… so… no answer then. Thanks!
Hi, I have enough energy to help you out.
I focused my mind and routed energy into my right index finger. I used my finger to maneuver my mouse wheel to gently complete a scrolling action to shift the web page up, but only ever so slightly. This maneuver allows me to find my comment quickly where I provided the answer.
Exhausted, but not yet beaten, I steeled my mind to locate the hyperlink to this comment. I did this by right clicking and copying the link to my clipboard
“not yet!” I screamed defiantly. I was not yet beaten. I had one final thing to complete before my journey ends - I need to provide this link to you.
With my last breaths, I channeled the last of my energy to complete a paste action to provide you the hyperlink to my comment.
Exhausted, spent, and my life force drained, I present to you my last hoorah. My greatest achievement. I provide you with the hyperlink to my comment. Cherish this moment.
Now that I have completed my assignment, I can now retire from this realm. My journey is over, and I’m proud of myself for being able to help you. Good luck in your journeys, and always remember me as the person who delivered you my comment. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your patience. I can retire, satisfied.
https://lemmy.world/comment/1980386
Your sacrifice will not be in vain, thank you for your service.
Don’t forget KSP2! Worst €50 I’ve spent.
It’s out? And it’s bad?
Yes, and yes. It lacks a lot of features, the performance is terrible and it has a tonne of bugs. It’s like taking KSP and swapping the times when it glitches when the times it doesn’t. That’s how bad it is.
I hope they actually stick to the roadmap, though. So I’ll at least be able to use all the features
KSP2?
Kerbal Space Program 2
All of us got burned with an expensive lesson. But it was well-learned. Now, you won’t get burned again and are a smarter customer thanks to games like KSP2.
What’s the risk when I can just return it if the game is shit after playing it for almost 2 hours?
Two hours is a laughably short amount of time to figure out if a game sucks usually.
The comment was talking about broken games. If a game is broken, you will find out in two hours. If the game sucks and you buy it, it doesn’t matter if you pre-order or buy 6 months later.
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It really depends. There are some fan-fucking-tastic games that I did preorder, like FFXVI, Metro Exodus, SF6, TLOU:2 (I didn’t like the story, gameplay + graphics saved it for me), Zelda: TOTK, Elden Ring… the list goes on.
I preordered Zelda Tears of the Kingdom, a physical Switch cartridge. I took a gamble with that but I decided to risk it since: Nintendo has a stellar track record of creating almost perfectly optimized first-party games throughout their entire history, and Zelda’s been in development for over 5 years. That was the exception I made, and I guess I got lucky. One day Nintendo might sully their track record. That’s probably when I’ll stop preordering physical Zelda games if they ever lose my trust.
When you preorder these other games, you certainly have to calculate that risk. Cyberpunk 2077 was made by a developer with a wonderful track record of producing fantastic video games. A lot of people trusted them and preordered, and those with lower hardware that met minimum requirements got burned while those that had superior hardware were fine. A gamble that didn’t pay off too well at launch when people trusted a stellar publisher and developer.
Regardless of the game, it doesn’t make sense to preorder digital titles. There will always be ones that knock it out of the park, but if they do release a wonderful game, certainly buy it but don’t preorder it. Reward them with your money only after they prove they’ve released a good game that’s worth it’s cost. Else, we continue this cycle and publishers will continue to repeat the same behavior without consequence.
And you would have gotten to play them even without preordering.
But preordering gives the games industry bad incentives.
I don’t know a lot about Denuvo, is it a bad thing? Why did you cancel your pre order based on that?
It’s DRM known for causing performance issues.
It’s a DRM scheme to protect against piracy. Over the years I saw more and more shitty titles use Denuvo on release because God forbid someone steal their cash grab. A lot of titles that are of quality usually do not see the need for Denuvo.
Therefore, nowadays, for me Denuvo serves as an indicator of a potentially shitty release. They slap Denuvo on top of it so that they can pump & dump.
Maybe I’ll buy the game when it’s on sale, but for now I am too skeptical, especially since slapping additional DRM on an already DRM’d game (it’s multiplayer only and always online, unlike previous parts that allowed offline play) does not make any sense to me.
Denuvo in particular causes performance issues. And drm in general just gives the paying customer an inferior product when the pirates will just just get the better version.
There have been instances where it worsens performance. My computer is mid tier-ish at this point (3070, i7 10700k) and I haven’t noticed any poor performance from games running Denuvo (latest I tried Dead Island 2). It’s likely worse performance loss on older systems, but those older systems probably can’t run new AAA games well as it is.
I think most people don’t like the fact that it takes a while to crack games running Denuvo, so they’re not able to be pirated for that time.
Edit: Seems the below statement was factually incorrect. Oops!
It’s a very obnoxious and heavy-handed approach to anti-piracy measures. It slows down games, kills framerates, gives users a whole host of other performance issues, and just makes the experience worse overall. It’s a product that doesn’t even seem to care to improve, because they make their money from publishers, not the people who buy and play the game. Many people hate it, and I believe it’s absolutely justified.
There isn’t a lot of evidence to back these claims up. For most users, it’s entirely transparent. You would never know a game shipped with Denuvo unless your first launch is offline and it fails to authenticate.
There have been games that had their performance impacted, but I don’t think it’s the norm. Games like Doom 2016 shipped with it and saw no performance gains when Denuvo was eventually patched out. I think titles like Rime and RE8 are usually the exception, but it’s something I always watch out for in reviews. If a game runs bad, I don’t buy it, regardless of the cause.
Denuvo has proven successful for 2 reasons:
It’s actually effective. Games go months or even years without a crack.
It’s nowhere near as draconian as what came before (TAGES, StarForce, SecuROM, etc). Most players aren’t even aware of its existence. They just buy these games on Steam and they work, which is why all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on in these threads never accomplishes anything.
Honest question here. Could it be possibly that as they improved their DRM with more triggers and methods that it has started to impact performance since 2016?
As Empress was cracking Denuvo, I wouldnt be surprised if they started to quickly add extra defencive measures compromising what could have been optimised in the past.
I don’t think so, because it has become less common over time for Denuvo to be the cause of bad performance. Doom 2016 is an early good example, likely because Id Software takes optimization very seriously. Stories of games having bad performance due to DRM were a lot more common back then. The worst example I can recall was Rime in 2017, which was borderline unplayable until the developers removed Denuvo in a patch.
So, I went back and tried to look for a source, but you’re right. Thanks for informing me! From the few sources I read, those issues were debunked, exaggerated, or due to bad implementation. I want to add that I still don’t like the idea of Denuvo (or any other DRM) on digital media that I purchase, but that’s a different topic.
seems like a great way to punish honest people every time they try to play your game and mildly inconvenience pirates for about a week
Fwiw, Denuvo is actually really hard to crack. There’s like one well-known person who is capable and she’s incredibly unlikeable. Agreeable sentiment though; Denuvo sucks and harms legitimate consumers (arguably more than it inconveniences pirates).
If one person can crack it and is willing to distribute it then everyone can get a cracked copy. Such is the nature of the internet.
I really doubt pirates or even any average person are going to worry about the beliefs of the person cracking the game.
Eh that’s not really true. When she was working on Hogwarts Legacy that’s when her really crazy side showed and she got a massive cult following as a result.
I’m not denying any of that. But are you going to consider that when you’re downloading the cracked version of your favourite game?
What happened and who is this person? Totally out of the loop here?!
Damn, and I i was actually excited for this game. Oh well, maybe in a couple years they’ll remove it and then it can be seen a viable product.
It look like the drm isn’t here to protect the game but the microtransaction system. This greedy 40$ freemium system remind me ovewatch…
If the server side security is done properly, nothing the client can do can crack that.
One can surely run his own server for payday 3 to connect to. I’m not really knowledgable about game hacking but I guess a DRM will make this more difficult.
Good to know I should download the free version instead
booooooo
Golden Rule: Denuvo games exist if and only if cracked by EMPRESS
The constant updates and online features were reason enough to not pirate payday 2 tbh. This is no good. Just lost a customer. Sad
Agreed. I gave up on PD2 because their update scheme involved reinstalling the goddamned game every couple of weeks. Massive pain in the ass for a hotfix.
Bro who tf is stealing Payday let alone to play alone. What a waste of money and a fuck you to paying customers.
Overkill blew all their money with that WW2 spin off. And it crashed so hard there was a John Cleese shaped crater where it hit rock bottom.
They were only able to make Payday 3 with significant external investment. So basically, PD3 is going to be a gutted and whored game since those investors will get significant say what goes into the game. Denuovo just being the most obvious right now.
That’s the thing, the game is already online only, why do they need anti piracy DRM on top of it?
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I don’t see any reason for denuvo to impose region restrictions and I hope that isn’t the case considering online stores already do this!
I think it may be more anti-cheat than anti-piracy, but Denuvo in particular can fuck itself
It`s a co-op game, who cares about cheaters?
The people that make money off of it’s monetization. I’ll have to assume they’ll have some sort of season pass.
Oh believe me, people got hyphy in PD2 about mods and stuff, even HUDs and QOL mods got peoples’ hackles up.
That’s dumb. Those people suck. :P
The PD2 community’s fuckin’ weird sometimes.
IIRC payday 2 had glacially slow progression at launch. Now what if you could simply pay some (more) money to skip those boring early levels this time around?
Okay, so I wouldn’t care, but yeah if they want to sell progression…
I looked into it some more and it seems there was a “shady” script you could use to grant yourself any piece of paid dlc you wanted, so The Money People probably asked how they could ensure that doesn’t happen again and just didn’t care about the drawbacks for regular people.
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Arent Deep Silver the guys who fecked up the new Saints Row?
Yes they are
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I could be misremembering and I’m not going to look it up right now, but I believe Payday 2 lost to corpo greed long ago when they added a bunch of microtransactions. There was also something about the original devs being screwed over if memory serves.
I remember an apology being issued about it iirc.
Personally, I’m fine with mtx if it supports continual development of a game i paid for and enjoyed prior to them being added. As long as the actual meaningful game additions are free or 1-time transactions.
What i don’t like is constant FOMO based p2w mechanics that are a requirement to play in any meaningful way, like most mobile time walled games. I also don’t like when corpos make decisions like adding DRM to an always online game, that is known to impact users, just points to a devs inability or a monetary kick back of said 3rd party drm to the devs shareholders.
Shitty situation overall however :(
It’ll be on game pass so I’ll probably still test it out, but I really don’t get why a Payday game would need anti-piracy measures since the whole point is to play co-op
Franchise died to me after they promised no microtransaction then months later made it worse than a gatcha game.
They also released a version that included all the DLC and then walked back that promise.
To be fair, after they switched publishers, they did away with the gacha nonsense