It wont affect anyone lurking on programming discords because those dont have NSFW content… So basically same thing as YT? I dont know whats the big deal. Dont scan your face, dont give your id, continue using as usual
Matrix will sadly never be a thing, much like XMPP never really became a thing (well, it was a thing until google pulled a play from the 90-00s era Microsoft of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish). And each of those tried to replace IRC which still works and is perfectly fine.
As a matrix user and a former discord user (4 years ago), i can say that matrix just sucks compared to amount of features even 4 year old discord had.
Unless there will be an alternative social networks which do all the basic discord features like: large communities, channels, voice/video chats, roles, bots; and it does it all well, than nobody will move off discord.
People would rather tolerate significant anti-features if software has lots of features, than tolerate lack of features despite not having anti-features.
It really is no different than discord. You create an account, download the client, log in and that’s that. You don’t have to self host it or use any instance that isn’t the main instance. Just go to matrix.org and sign up.
It does it well, it’s just clunky. It works perfectly fine, and I recommend it over discord ang day of the week. Except Tuesdays. Tuesdays I recommend IRC.
If it’s clunky, then it does not do it well for most users. All features might even work well individually, but the user experience is very important too for less tech-savvy people.
Careful: Discord misuses the word “server” to mean community, so a lot of Discord users here might misunderstand and think you just said the average Joe doesn’t need to set up a community. (Of course, I’m sure you actually mean the average Joe doesn’t need to set up his own homeserver instance, which is true.)
I’m on discord for piracy and modding. Sure over the years i joined a few other channels. But most foss adjacent channels have matrix bridges. idgaf. If servers required my phone number i always just left the server. Discord wont get shit.
This project looks interesting, i might try it. As i undesrtand, its designed around all of the basic discord features, and nothing else that nobody asked for.
The cool thing about being foss project, is if the developers for some reason become too greedy (lets be real, its true for foss), the next exact second there will be a new fork created, a new team formed, a new server hosted, and all of the users will move to it instantly.
Additionally, Discord will implement its age inference model, a new system that runs in the background to help determine whether an account belongs to an adult
The only way to get around this would be to verify your age, which Discord says can be accomplished in one of two ways. The first is to “submit a form of identification” to Discord vendors (i.e. scan your physical ID), or to use “facial age estimation.” Discord says that the latter process happens fully on-device, as “video selfies for facial age estimation never leave a user’s device.” For ID scans, Discord says that documents “are deleted quickly.”
Between the features that are limiting being almost entirely things I don’t want anyway (random friend invites are literally just fucking scams and ads to begin with), and the entire process being completed on-device… What is this, some slow news day? Everyone is losing their minds about this being some insane overstep like Discord is asking for a blood sample, or even a photo of your driver’s license.
Don’t get me wrong, fuck this age verification nonsense, but it’s pretty clear this is some very specific government regulatory appeasement where Discord is attempting to avoid culpability for holding data at basically every joint possible. They already have the useful, farmable data, like geolocation, age/gender demographics and interests. They don’t want our government ID. They only want a “yes” or “no” from their app.
Must be a slow news day. Everyone’s blowing this up in headlines for cheap clicks.
I might consider the facial verification thing if someone fulfills a security audit that both verifies the photo is never sent, encrypted or not, and it does not stay on the device’s drive.
But yeah, part of me hopes some number of privacy focused companies will just abandon business in these locations and claim “It’s only a matter of time before they reverse course for security failures, we will just wait until then.”
Don’t get me wrong, fuck this age verification nonsense, but it’s pretty clear this is some very specific government regulatory appeasement where Discord is attempting to avoid culpability for holding data at basically every joint possible.
That’s 100% what it is. It also sincerely makes me not want to use Discord, because even if this is what governments want, it’s extremely bad for users.
That’s fine if that’s your personal response. This still feels like a misdirected and ultimately useless response though.
This is a government-created problem. Are we expecting widespread boycotts of Discord to change the government’s mind? Of course not.
If it’s extremely bad for users, then users need to change their government. Yeah, yeah, I know the excuses for not doing that, they don’t listen, we are all powerless, it is the way it is, yadda yadda. It’s a lie. We are powerful, they want us feeling powerless so we can’t challenge them. Fuck that, challenge them. Government exists to represent us, it can exist in perpetuity only with our active and ongoing consent and participation. If people in totalitarian countries can overthrow their governments, so can we, we don’t have to do it overnight, we don’t have to do it over this one single isolated issue, but we can at least start working against them, eroding the structures that support them. Fuck governments like these, figure out ways to twist their arm, make things more difficult for them, and eventually, if we keep at it, we’ll get what we want. We hold the power here, not them. We decide what kind of society we want to live in. We need to stop abdicating our responsibilities as citizens and actively fight against this shit.
By all means, challenge your government, but I’m not going to upload my ID to a database to use Discord. I can self host a thing that will accomplish the same goals without doing something that stupid.
That’s fine, and I hate Discord’s general situation too, and I can’t wait for a properly federated self-hostable open source alternative to take off. But it just seems a bit knee-jerk or straw that broke the camel’s back to throw Discord under the bus specifically for this. To be clear, you don’t actually need to provide ID, you can either continue using a limited account (it’s barely limited at all in any serious way unless you’re using Discord for NSFW stuff) or you can attempt to validate your face with a camera instead, which supposedly happens completely on-device. Either one is a totally reasonable alternative.
If you believe that photo validation lives entirely on your device, you might be surprised by how many times the tech industry straight up lies about this kind of stuff, but I don’t trust that for a minute.
I’m waiting for some government to outlaw collecting the information in general outside of official government agencies. I would love to see big tech squirm as they try to figure out a valid way to harvest the data in one country, but prevent it in another.
Honestly it sounds like an amazing way to rack of fine money due to violation notices.
I deleted my account after reading the article they officially released…Chat apps won’t get my phone number or ID, they get hacked and compromised too frequently for me to trust it. It’s total bullshit that they are pushing this shit on the world after trialing it in the UK and Australia. Discord can get fucked, it will suck that I can’t follow the development of games that rely on Discord instead of forums or proper fucking documentation sites. Hopefully, more indies will stop relying on Discord (it’s a rotten crutch) and go back to utilizing Forums in general!
For ID scans, Discord says that documents “are deleted quickly.”
Just a few months ago they had a data leak which proved that they were indeed /not/ deleting documents and ID’s like they had been claiming.
Granted in that case it was mostly countries that force keeping that data but, I’m sick of companies lying and saying “lol yea we defo delete the data after”
More like they become reusable. A lot of places that refurbish donated computers for people who need them are perpetually short on drives since so much of the hardware they get have the drives pulled.
Yeah lmao. Wipe one drive at a time with a USB connector. No thanks. I don’t have bulk drive operation equipment and then it ties up a computer doing the work.
saw a setup like that at work, until it was determined to be a fire hazard. which it was.
had to short the start pins of the MoBa with a paperclip to start the damn thing.
we called it “the scorpion”, cause it would shock you if you touched it wrong, and it kinda looked like a scorpion with the cables hanging out all over the floor…
This is not truly foolproof. Data can still be recovered from the spinning metal platter since it can theoretically be removed and put into a recovery device, even in a broken state.
Im addition to that, hard drives/ssd’s sometimes have small flash memory chips, from which data can sometimes be recovered.
If you want it to actually be unrecoverable then you have to actually ensure all parts thay store data are truly deleted/wiped, which is more than just the core platter. Or just use encryption and throw away the key, since all data going through the tiny OS on these devices will be encrypted. Or just store them forever in a vault.
It’s not that hard though. There are companies that offer data recovery as a service. If the value of the data on those drives exceeds the cost of those services then it becomes worth it to fish one of the drives out of the dumpster and take it there.
This is a very specialized job, your avg joe is not going to do it. Also, in the many years I’ve been in IT, I’ve never even seen a video of a platter reconstructed and get data off it.
My friend is an exec there. After reading this thread bugged him to buy my software that would protect this vulnerability. They confirmed data/file never leaves the user’s device. Sounds pretty safe.
You do know that it’s bullshit? Unless they’re incredibly incompetent they’re lying to you. If the data never leaves the client then all the checks are client-side, which means it’s relatively easy (compared to a server side check) to bypass those checks.
Afaik the files exfiltrated were photos that the on device detection could not identify and were uploaded to verify server side. That would mean not all pictures are sent to the backend, and that corroborates why “only” 70k photos were stolen when discord has millions of users verified.
Of course you have to put your trust in a closed source system so best not to upload, but if true it’s still a far cry from openly lying about it. It’s probably explicitly stated in their ToS that they may upload the file if the verification fails client side.
For a while (maybe even still, I haven’t kept up with it) you could unlock paid features with a modded client, so they absolutely have a history of using client-side verification.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
Rules
1. Submissions have to be related to games
Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.
This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil
No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.
We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.
3. No excessive self-promotion
Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.
This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.
4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts
This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you’re submitting before posting to see if it’s already been posted.
We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.
5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW
Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.
No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.
6. No linking to piracy
Don’t share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.
We don’t want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.
It wont affect anyone lurking on programming discords because those dont have NSFW content… So basically same thing as YT? I dont know whats the big deal. Dont scan your face, dont give your id, continue using as usual
Hope this will mass exodus into Matrix, like it happened with Twitter / X.
How well does Matrix / Element work for screen sharing games?
Matrix doesn’t have any of the same features discord has for voice and video.
Matrix will sadly never be a thing, much like XMPP never really became a thing (well, it was a thing until google pulled a play from the 90-00s era Microsoft of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish). And each of those tried to replace IRC which still works and is perfectly fine.
As a matrix user and a former discord user (4 years ago), i can say that matrix just sucks compared to amount of features even 4 year old discord had.
Unless there will be an alternative social networks which do all the basic discord features like: large communities, channels, voice/video chats, roles, bots; and it does it all well, than nobody will move off discord.
People would rather tolerate significant anti-features if software has lots of features, than tolerate lack of features despite not having anti-features.
Matrix can literally do everything you just mentioned. It’s clunky, but it works.
It’s way too complicated for tech illiterate people.
It really is no different than discord. You create an account, download the client, log in and that’s that. You don’t have to self host it or use any instance that isn’t the main instance. Just go to matrix.org and sign up.
Thats why i said “and it does it all well”.
It does it well, it’s just clunky. It works perfectly fine, and I recommend it over discord ang day of the week. Except Tuesdays. Tuesdays I recommend IRC.
How do you do voice calls/voice group calls in Matrix?
In element there’s a button on top of the chat. I press that and it’s calling.
If it’s clunky, then it does not do it well for most users. All features might even work well individually, but the user experience is very important too for less tech-savvy people.
It is no more clunky than discord was a couple years ago. Setting up a server is very clunky, but the average Joe doesn’t have to do it.
Careful: Discord misuses the word “server” to mean community, so a lot of Discord users here might misunderstand and think you just said the average Joe doesn’t need to set up a community. (Of course, I’m sure you actually mean the average Joe doesn’t need to set up his own homeserver instance, which is true.)
doubt it. better off just setting up channels in libera chat on IRC and doin voice via teamspeak/mumble like we used to do it back in the day.
shit, someone needs to bring back ICQ.
IRC protocol is audio capable.
welp there ya go! problem solved.
I’m on discord for piracy and modding. Sure over the years i joined a few other channels. But most foss adjacent channels have matrix bridges. idgaf. If servers required my phone number i always just left the server. Discord wont get shit.
I would barely be okay with a bank or government website asking for this information, I sure as shit would not give it to a fucking chat app.
Discord said I’m certified teen full rizz all drip fr what’s up 67ers?
That’s cap.
frfr on god
Is this Belter speak?
Stoat it is lol (https://stoat.chat)
This project looks interesting, i might try it. As i undesrtand, its designed around all of the basic discord features, and nothing else that nobody asked for.
The cool thing about being foss project, is if the developers for some reason become too greedy (lets be real, its true for foss), the next exact second there will be a new fork created, a new team formed, a new server hosted, and all of the users will move to it instantly.
Back to mumble, sigh
Already deleted!
from the official release.
I wonder if it’ll function like Twitch where you can get tons of people banned all at once by getting them to say they’re under 13.
That happened to me a long while ago. before all this.
Sounds like creepy spyware
it only sounds like that, because it is. :/
For those looking for an alternative, try stoat.chat or matrix
Between the features that are limiting being almost entirely things I don’t want anyway (random friend invites are literally just fucking scams and ads to begin with), and the entire process being completed on-device… What is this, some slow news day? Everyone is losing their minds about this being some insane overstep like Discord is asking for a blood sample, or even a photo of your driver’s license.
Don’t get me wrong, fuck this age verification nonsense, but it’s pretty clear this is some very specific government regulatory appeasement where Discord is attempting to avoid culpability for holding data at basically every joint possible. They already have the useful, farmable data, like geolocation, age/gender demographics and interests. They don’t want our government ID. They only want a “yes” or “no” from their app.
Must be a slow news day. Everyone’s blowing this up in headlines for cheap clicks.
I might consider the facial verification thing if someone fulfills a security audit that both verifies the photo is never sent, encrypted or not, and it does not stay on the device’s drive.
But yeah, part of me hopes some number of privacy focused companies will just abandon business in these locations and claim “It’s only a matter of time before they reverse course for security failures, we will just wait until then.”
That’s 100% what it is. It also sincerely makes me not want to use Discord, because even if this is what governments want, it’s extremely bad for users.
That’s fine if that’s your personal response. This still feels like a misdirected and ultimately useless response though.
This is a government-created problem. Are we expecting widespread boycotts of Discord to change the government’s mind? Of course not.
If it’s extremely bad for users, then users need to change their government. Yeah, yeah, I know the excuses for not doing that, they don’t listen, we are all powerless, it is the way it is, yadda yadda. It’s a lie. We are powerful, they want us feeling powerless so we can’t challenge them. Fuck that, challenge them. Government exists to represent us, it can exist in perpetuity only with our active and ongoing consent and participation. If people in totalitarian countries can overthrow their governments, so can we, we don’t have to do it overnight, we don’t have to do it over this one single isolated issue, but we can at least start working against them, eroding the structures that support them. Fuck governments like these, figure out ways to twist their arm, make things more difficult for them, and eventually, if we keep at it, we’ll get what we want. We hold the power here, not them. We decide what kind of society we want to live in. We need to stop abdicating our responsibilities as citizens and actively fight against this shit.
deleted by creator
By all means, challenge your government, but I’m not going to upload my ID to a database to use Discord. I can self host a thing that will accomplish the same goals without doing something that stupid.
That’s fine, and I hate Discord’s general situation too, and I can’t wait for a properly federated self-hostable open source alternative to take off. But it just seems a bit knee-jerk or straw that broke the camel’s back to throw Discord under the bus specifically for this. To be clear, you don’t actually need to provide ID, you can either continue using a limited account (it’s barely limited at all in any serious way unless you’re using Discord for NSFW stuff) or you can attempt to validate your face with a camera instead, which supposedly happens completely on-device. Either one is a totally reasonable alternative.
deleted by creator
If you believe that photo validation lives entirely on your device, you might be surprised by how many times the tech industry straight up lies about this kind of stuff, but I don’t trust that for a minute.
I’m waiting for some government to outlaw collecting the information in general outside of official government agencies. I would love to see big tech squirm as they try to figure out a valid way to harvest the data in one country, but prevent it in another.
Honestly it sounds like an amazing way to rack of fine money due to violation notices.
I deleted my account after reading the article they officially released…Chat apps won’t get my phone number or ID, they get hacked and compromised too frequently for me to trust it. It’s total bullshit that they are pushing this shit on the world after trialing it in the UK and Australia. Discord can get fucked, it will suck that I can’t follow the development of games that rely on Discord instead of forums or proper fucking documentation sites. Hopefully, more indies will stop relying on Discord (it’s a rotten crutch) and go back to utilizing Forums in general!
Just a few months ago they had a data leak which proved that they were indeed /not/ deleting documents and ID’s like they had been claiming.
Granted in that case it was mostly countries that force keeping that data but, I’m sick of companies lying and saying “lol yea we defo delete the data after”
I won’t even give hard drives when recycling a computer, I pull and smash myself. Last set of old drives I cut in half with bolt cutters.
That’s overkill, a couple of passes with dd and it’s irrecoverable.
They’re 500gb mechanical hard drives with financial data on them. Snip and done. No time wasted, not reusing them.
What’s dd?
A tool, primarily within Linux, that can overwrite disks. I’ve never seen it recommended for data deletion, but I guess it makes sense.
It stands for “disk to disk” and is usually used for things like writing ISOs.
However,
shredis the usual approach.I thought it stood for DiskDump
A wise coworker of mine once told me that, when it comes to what Unix commands stand for, you kind of make it up as you go.
In this case, though, looks like we were both wrong.
Darn
I think bolt cutters are faster though
But more wasteful
And significantly more power efficient
A couple of passed with dd takes way longer than bolt cutters and it’s much less satisfying
I think they meant you could wipe with dd and then they are
recyclablereusable.EDIT: s/recycleable/reusable
They’re recyclable snipped.
More like they become reusable. A lot of places that refurbish donated computers for people who need them are perpetually short on drives since so much of the hardware they get have the drives pulled.
SSDs are cheap enough, no sense in using a 10 year old mechanical drive to save $30.
Yeah lmao. Wipe one drive at a time with a USB connector. No thanks. I don’t have bulk drive operation equipment and then it ties up a computer doing the work.
Wait, you don’t just hang like 6 of them out of your desktop by their cables and wipe them while you sleep?
Mine, sure. I replaced 15 desktops that day, no fucking way.
Snip
saw a setup like that at work, until it was determined to be a fire hazard. which it was.
had to short the start pins of the MoBa with a paperclip to start the damn thing.
we called it “the scorpion”, cause it would shock you if you touched it wrong, and it kinda looked like a scorpion with the cables hanging out all over the floor…
#tales-from-IT
This is not truly foolproof. Data can still be recovered from the spinning metal platter since it can theoretically be removed and put into a recovery device, even in a broken state.
Im addition to that, hard drives/ssd’s sometimes have small flash memory chips, from which data can sometimes be recovered.
If you want it to actually be unrecoverable then you have to actually ensure all parts thay store data are truly deleted/wiped, which is more than just the core platter. Or just use encryption and throw away the key, since all data going through the tiny OS on these devices will be encrypted. Or just store them forever in a vault.
Microwave it idk
Bud, if you put that platter back together after I snipped it, you deserve every bit of data you get off it, 1000%
It’s not that hard though. There are companies that offer data recovery as a service. If the value of the data on those drives exceeds the cost of those services then it becomes worth it to fish one of the drives out of the dumpster and take it there.
This is a very specialized job, your avg joe is not going to do it. Also, in the many years I’ve been in IT, I’ve never even seen a video of a platter reconstructed and get data off it.
I think I’ve never disposed of one for this reason haha
We delete your data after we hand it off to our partners. Who definitely do not delete it.
My friend is an exec there. After reading this thread bugged him to buy my software that would protect this vulnerability. They confirmed data/file never leaves the user’s device. Sounds pretty safe.
Source: Trust me bro.
Yeah, I’ve known him and worked with him over 10 years and he knows I’m a user. I trust him. You don’t need to trust me.
You do know that it’s bullshit? Unless they’re incredibly incompetent they’re lying to you. If the data never leaves the client then all the checks are client-side, which means it’s relatively easy (compared to a server side check) to bypass those checks.
Afaik the files exfiltrated were photos that the on device detection could not identify and were uploaded to verify server side. That would mean not all pictures are sent to the backend, and that corroborates why “only” 70k photos were stolen when discord has millions of users verified.
Of course you have to put your trust in a closed source system so best not to upload, but if true it’s still a far cry from openly lying about it. It’s probably explicitly stated in their ToS that they may upload the file if the verification fails client side.
For a while (maybe even still, I haven’t kept up with it) you could unlock paid features with a modded client, so they absolutely have a history of using client-side verification.
Do you have any suggestions for a better/open-source alternative?
A few mentioned here, with them recommending mumble
https://alternativeto.net/software/discord-app/?origin=eu
Teamspeak and Vent, now is your time to shine.