It was the fact that they didn’t show a new UI or added features to the base console. It’s effectively only a Nintendo game player and nothing else where as previous consoles were also note taking apps and a calendar and you could doodle animations or even take photos on some of the DSs.
They added no other functionality to this console and left it with less than previous ones. It only plays the games and that’s it.
At least a steam deck you can use a browser and watch videos on it too if you really wanted. The only reason to buy the switch is the games now which makes the price per game astronomical effectively.
Honestly, I’ll still get a Switch 2 for the first party games, but there’s no way in hell I’ll buy a third party game for it if I can add the game to my Steam library. Steam Deck + living room “console” PC is pretty perfect if you know what you’re doing.
I’m going to wait for reviews though on the games themselves, but pick up the console at release, and probably Mario Kart and Metroid.
I know the console is going to last me half a decade at least, and I have a kiddo who’s going to age into those first party games very quickly. Mario, DK, Kirby, Zelda.
For the switch 1, I have about 15-20 Switch exclusive games, which I’ve spent hundreds of hours on. To me, most of those gaming experiences are worth a $80/90 price point in today’s dollars given inflation, and by buying physical I can quickly sell the ones I don’t like (looking at you hyrule warriors).
It seems like heavy price tag at first glance, but in reality I think it’s quite reasonable over the lifetime of the console.
You can buy at least 1 dumper for switch carts and not need an actual Switch. The same device can get your certs, but yes for that you do need to have a switch.
Exclusives are cancer. Computers should be able to compute everything. Nintendo’s/console strategy is an absolute travesty for human progress, like almost all capitalist strategy.
I mean, yeah, but at the same time, a Nintendo game being a Nintendo exclusive product doesn’t seem that weird to me. If it was an external studio, sure. But it’s the same company. I agree that it’s annoying, but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable tactic if you control the vertical and you actually DO build good hardware and software that play well together, and you want to leverage the multiplicative effect there.
Sure, I’m not unreasonable. I hate against exclusives, because I’m sure it’d be better without them, but Nintendo is not entirely terrible. It’s never completely black & white.
I hate Nintendo exclusives because i hate Nintendos hardware. I do love their software, so i emulate it.
I get why they need exclusives, if they want to keep making consoles instead of turning into SEGA they need to give peeps a reason to buy their console, which since the wii (?) has had a deliberate focus on less powerful hardware. If they didn’t have those N exclusives those games would look better on their competitor’s systems.
Like i said, i love their games, can’t stress that enough. I hate, hate, HATE their hardware tho. I’ve refused to buy Nintendo stuff since i felt burned by n64s crap analog sticks (i hold a mean grudge haha) and the only way Nintendo would get my hard fought-stretched-to-hell $ is if they sold pc copies of their games.
I wish they’d consider doing that (after a few years of exclusivity even, i’m a patientgamer) but i don’t think they ever will :(
I guess my point is that I think of the Nintendo dynamic more charitably than I think of independent large game studios making platform exclusive titles just because some business deal was struck, simply because the latter creates the impression of vertical integration when there is in fact none.
Nintendo’s hardware used to have features that competitors lacked. The DS’s dual screens, the 3DS’s 3D top screen, the Wiimote, the Wii U’s controller with a second screen. Even the Virtual Boy did something different, though it didn’t do it well. Nintendo used to innovate on hardware while everyone else was just going for bigger numbers. Exclusives made sense as they made use of those features that you just couldn’t get elsewhere.
The Switch and Switch 2 have this portable/dock gimmick but that doesn’t really affect gameplay in a way that makes the software incompatible with a PC or a Playstation 4/5. And there’s the Steam Deck and a load of other portable gaming PCs out now, so even if it did there’d be no justification for a Switch exclusive other than greed and an unwillingness to prioritize the consumer.
How much e-waste is generated due to equipment that could be redundant if not for exclusives. Not just the consoles either, but all the accessories.
My understanding is that the console hardware itself isn’t even that profitable, in the same way that lower-end printers are just platforms to sell ink.
What is the point of buying a gaming console instead of a PC if not for the exclusives? Also what about all those games funded by exclusive contracts that would not have existed?
You for some reason assume that games would not have existed if not for being exclusive. But you do not actually know that. Yes, exclusive games do exist. But also quite obviously non-exclusive games exist. It is obviously possible to get games funded without being exclusive.
It is impossible to predict the future, or similarly, predict alternative versions of the past. I do not claim to know for sure that the same amount of games would exist without exclusivity. But since non-exclusive games are possible, and actually in the majority, it seems very likely to me that when a consumer demand is there, supply for it would be created.
In the end, this is an argument about cooperation vs competition. The argument for exclusives is basically an argument for competition. The argument against exclusives is one for cooperation. My base thinking is, why create many different consoles, that all just contain a CPU, some graphical processing unit, some way to load games on it, when you can just save the work of everyone developing their own thing and duplicating work, when everyone could just work together to create the same thing, just with more minds working together and without duplicating work.
Yes but can you really know that Bayonetta would not have been made without exclusives? Maybe if exclusives didn’t exist Bayonetta would’ve just secured funding some other way. You can’t know that now anymore, because that’s not what happened, but it’s not entirely unreasonable to believe that Bayonetta could have turned to other funding sources, if the situation was different at the time.
I mean ya. Bayonetta doesn’t sell well but as an exclusive it brings variety to the system. I think the creators themselves said something like 2 and 3 wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t funded by Nintendo.
That’s probably why I haven’t bought a Nintendo console since the original Wii. I keep looking for a reason to do so but coming up short.
I still love the NES and SNES, as well as some N64 and GC games. I definitely would like to try some of Nintendo’s newer games, just not at the prices they’re asking for! I am absolutely spoiled for choice on games to play.
Yeah, 45% tariffs on Japan and 32% on Taiwan is going to make pricing brutal in the US. I wouldn’t be surprised if $450 and $80 for Mario Cart effectively goes up.
Was there anything about the SoC it uses? What architecture is it?
Iirc it’s an nvidia arm chip with a little over 1500 cuda cores from the ampere generation(30 series), so less power than a 3050 (non ti) which has 2300-2560 cuda cores.
The two gfx IPs were in direct competition for 2020, if anything, the two platforms should be on par in terms of base level capabilities. Interesting to see them go with a fullHD panel, though. 1080p@120hz bodes pretty well for general performance expectations. Curious what the battery life will be like.
strix halo in any gaming handheld would be bizarre, much as I’d love to see it. I get the feeling valve would hold out just a little while longer before pulling the trigger on a second gen.
It’s fair to dream. I’ve no doubt the CPU core count will increase somewhat in the next iteration. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more fixed function hardware in their next (theoretical) SoC.
I’m not sure if we’d ever really see that much gfx resource in a handheld, at least for now. I agree it would be very cool but vendors need to strike a very fine balance as far as power is concerned. Could go for the ‘dock to unlock’ approach though I genuinely appreciate that the steam deck’s performance characteristics are 1:1 plugged in and on battery. Besides that, area is expensive, and the steam deck came in at an extremely attractive price in 2022 relative to other x86_64 handhelds on the market. I would hope price remains a focus to get Linux gaming and desktop experiences into more hands.
As for halo in particular, significant improvements have been made at a packaging level to minimise idle draw with the mcm design (and I think that is somewhat reflected in current OEM offerings) but it’s still not quite where you’d want it to be in a handheld system. That’s not to say it won’t get there eventually.
Nah Steamdeck is a good Switch competitor but they gonna need a Steamdeck 2 to compete Switch 2. But with those absurd game prices steam will have a big advantage with less effort.
Except it’s not. If you actually take a second to look at the specs of the hardware here it’s not quite as simple as it might seem at first glance.
I’m comparing the OLED model here since it’s most comparable to the Switch 2.
HDR - tie both support this
VRR - Deck only supports this with an external display - win Switch 2
Resolution - 800p vs 1080p max, not even close Switch 2 is a big upgrade here - win Switch 2, not to mention 4K while docked. Good luck getting anywhere near that in even a somewhat recent game on Deck
Max framerate - 90 FPS max vs 120 FPS max - win Switch 2
Specs - hard to say but seems like overall Switch 2 is more powerful
Storage - hard to say exactly but while it seems like on paper Switch 2 should be better here, the actual capacity is way bigger, and Valve has some done some amazing work here to make even games running off an SD card very fast
Battery - basically the same - tie
Price - Switch 2 is cheaper at least here in Canada. The 512 OLED model is $689. Switch 2 is $630.
I think it’s entirely likely that Switch 2 will perform much better with ports of modern games, where the Steam Deck is starting to show its age and really struggling here.
I love my Steam Deck and it’s fantastic for playing smaller budget indie games, older games, emulated games, and tackling my backlog. But any AAA game that’s come out say in the last year or two? Forget it. It’s just not a good experience. Even BG3 which is Verified was just fine. I played it a lot on my Deck but would it perform better on Switch 2? Probably yes.
It’ll definitely be interesting to see how performance of third party titles shakes out between the two.
What about them? The statement was that the Steam Deck is better in every way. I provided a counter example.
I own both a Steam Deck and a Switch, and I enjoy using both. I buy way more games on Steam than Switch, but I still think the Switch is a worthwhile purchase.
Eh, Nintendo copyright striking switch emulators right before this release makes me wonder if Switch 2 games can be emulated in the same fashion. If so, then that leaves mainly online multiplayer games that can’t be played, and online switch games are not a great experience.
It felt really bad during the third party showcase for games like Elden Ring and Hogwarts that have been available on the steam deck since launch.
I just bought a refurbished steam deck last year for less than the price of the Switch 2 and will have a hard time justifying the purchase. I do love Nintendo though and typically buy a good chunk of their first party games. The new 3D DK looks amazing and I loved the BotW Warriors title, so I have high hopes for the new as well.
You couldn’t have said it better, I swear nobody knows the Steam Deck outside of Lemmy or Reddit in my close circle lol.
Also, I don’t mind tinkering, but for me Valve hasn’t done a great job there either because even to this day I can’t purchase one officially from Mexico LMAO.
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It was the fact that they didn’t show a new UI or added features to the base console. It’s effectively only a Nintendo game player and nothing else where as previous consoles were also note taking apps and a calendar and you could doodle animations or even take photos on some of the DSs.
They added no other functionality to this console and left it with less than previous ones. It only plays the games and that’s it.
At least a steam deck you can use a browser and watch videos on it too if you really wanted. The only reason to buy the switch is the games now which makes the price per game astronomical effectively.
Honestly, I’ll still get a Switch 2 for the first party games, but there’s no way in hell I’ll buy a third party game for it if I can add the game to my Steam library. Steam Deck + living room “console” PC is pretty perfect if you know what you’re doing.
You are gonna spend over $700 for a few first party games?
I’m just asking cause that’s the cost, $500 console plus extra controller plus the games quickly blooms into nearly a $1000 purchase for a few games.
I just can’t justify spending $250 per game I would play on it currently.
Yes, if they’re quality games.
I’m going to wait for reviews though on the games themselves, but pick up the console at release, and probably Mario Kart and Metroid.
I know the console is going to last me half a decade at least, and I have a kiddo who’s going to age into those first party games very quickly. Mario, DK, Kirby, Zelda.
For the switch 1, I have about 15-20 Switch exclusive games, which I’ve spent hundreds of hours on. To me, most of those gaming experiences are worth a $80/90 price point in today’s dollars given inflation, and by buying physical I can quickly sell the ones I don’t like (looking at you hyrule warriors).
It seems like heavy price tag at first glance, but in reality I think it’s quite reasonable over the lifetime of the console.
Why didn’t you get a Steam deck if you wanted one? I don’t see how it’s related to Switch 2. Those play different games.
Not true. The deck can emulate Switch games. 😌
IIRC you have to buy a Switch to legally emulate Switch games anyway?
Are you under the impression that we need to stick to legal discussion here?
Ha!
Nah just the games and a cartridge dumper
And the cartridge dumper would be a hacked Switch. Besides that you also need to get several system files from said Switch and import to the emulator.
You can buy at least 1 dumper for switch carts and not need an actual Switch. The same device can get your certs, but yes for that you do need to have a switch.
Exclusives are cancer. Computers should be able to compute everything. Nintendo’s/console strategy is an absolute travesty for human progress, like almost all capitalist strategy.
I mean, yeah, but at the same time, a Nintendo game being a Nintendo exclusive product doesn’t seem that weird to me. If it was an external studio, sure. But it’s the same company. I agree that it’s annoying, but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable tactic if you control the vertical and you actually DO build good hardware and software that play well together, and you want to leverage the multiplicative effect there.
Sure, I’m not unreasonable. I hate against exclusives, because I’m sure it’d be better without them, but Nintendo is not entirely terrible. It’s never completely black & white.
I hate Nintendo exclusives because i hate Nintendos hardware. I do love their software, so i emulate it.
I get why they need exclusives, if they want to keep making consoles instead of turning into SEGA they need to give peeps a reason to buy their console, which since the wii (?) has had a deliberate focus on less powerful hardware. If they didn’t have those N exclusives those games would look better on their competitor’s systems.
Like i said, i love their games, can’t stress that enough. I hate, hate, HATE their hardware tho. I’ve refused to buy Nintendo stuff since i felt burned by n64s crap analog sticks (i hold a mean grudge haha) and the only way Nintendo would get my hard fought-stretched-to-hell $ is if they sold pc copies of their games.
I wish they’d consider doing that (after a few years of exclusivity even, i’m a patientgamer) but i don’t think they ever will :(
I guess my point is that I think of the Nintendo dynamic more charitably than I think of independent large game studios making platform exclusive titles just because some business deal was struck, simply because the latter creates the impression of vertical integration when there is in fact none.
Nintendo’s hardware used to have features that competitors lacked. The DS’s dual screens, the 3DS’s 3D top screen, the Wiimote, the Wii U’s controller with a second screen. Even the Virtual Boy did something different, though it didn’t do it well. Nintendo used to innovate on hardware while everyone else was just going for bigger numbers. Exclusives made sense as they made use of those features that you just couldn’t get elsewhere.
The Switch and Switch 2 have this portable/dock gimmick but that doesn’t really affect gameplay in a way that makes the software incompatible with a PC or a Playstation 4/5. And there’s the Steam Deck and a load of other portable gaming PCs out now, so even if it did there’d be no justification for a Switch exclusive other than greed and an unwillingness to prioritize the consumer.
How much e-waste is generated due to equipment that could be redundant if not for exclusives. Not just the consoles either, but all the accessories.
My understanding is that the console hardware itself isn’t even that profitable, in the same way that lower-end printers are just platforms to sell ink.
Yep. But aren’t we glad we have competition! Aren’t we glad we duplicate research/work all the time! We’d never think of improvements without this.
What is the point of buying a gaming console instead of a PC if not for the exclusives? Also what about all those games funded by exclusive contracts that would not have existed?
I buy consoles because i don’t want to setup, configure, fix, ant upgrade computers.
You for some reason assume that games would not have existed if not for being exclusive. But you do not actually know that. Yes, exclusive games do exist. But also quite obviously non-exclusive games exist. It is obviously possible to get games funded without being exclusive.
It is impossible to predict the future, or similarly, predict alternative versions of the past. I do not claim to know for sure that the same amount of games would exist without exclusivity. But since non-exclusive games are possible, and actually in the majority, it seems very likely to me that when a consumer demand is there, supply for it would be created.
In the end, this is an argument about cooperation vs competition. The argument for exclusives is basically an argument for competition. The argument against exclusives is one for cooperation. My base thinking is, why create many different consoles, that all just contain a CPU, some graphical processing unit, some way to load games on it, when you can just save the work of everyone developing their own thing and duplicating work, when everyone could just work together to create the same thing, just with more minds working together and without duplicating work.
Not all games? I mean the exclusive games like Bayonetta 3.
Yes but can you really know that Bayonetta would not have been made without exclusives? Maybe if exclusives didn’t exist Bayonetta would’ve just secured funding some other way. You can’t know that now anymore, because that’s not what happened, but it’s not entirely unreasonable to believe that Bayonetta could have turned to other funding sources, if the situation was different at the time.
I mean ya. Bayonetta doesn’t sell well but as an exclusive it brings variety to the system. I think the creators themselves said something like 2 and 3 wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t funded by Nintendo.
Reading articles is over rated. Just make a comment solely based on the title. Good move.
How many exclusives is the Switch 2 going to have besides the usual Nintendo first party stuff?
“Aside from all the exclusives, how many exclusives will it have?”
I can remember when the SNES had countless 3rd party exclusives. Now we can’t expect any?
The value prop of the Switch 2 is not compelling to me.
That was the time when SNES was practically the only player jn town and you couldn’t easily port a game from one plataform for the other.
No? The SNES was in fierce competition with the Sega Genesis / Mega Drive. They didn’t call it the console wars for nothing.
We can expect exclusives. I’m not sure why you’re acting like all the exclusives that exist don’t count.
Because your previous comment conflated exclusives with first party exclusives.
I’m just questioning why you’re trying to write those off.
Because I don’t think it’s worth it to pay $650 Canadian for a console based only on a few Mario/Zelda/Metroid games?
Not sure why are you considering a Nintendo console if you’re not interested in the Nintendo stuff
Because everything else can be played on a Steam deck!
I get your point, but people buy Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo games.
That’s probably why I haven’t bought a Nintendo console since the original Wii. I keep looking for a reason to do so but coming up short.
I still love the NES and SNES, as well as some N64 and GC games. I definitely would like to try some of Nintendo’s newer games, just not at the prices they’re asking for! I am absolutely spoiled for choice on games to play.
Yeah, 45% tariffs on Japan and 32% on Taiwan is going to make pricing brutal in the US. I wouldn’t be surprised if $450 and $80 for Mario Cart effectively goes up.
Was there anything about the SoC it uses? What architecture is it?
Iirc it’s an nvidia arm chip with a little over 1500 cuda cores from the ampere generation(30 series), so less power than a 3050 (non ti) which has 2300-2560 cuda cores.
Heh, Ampere is 2020. The Steam Deck’s Vang Gogh RDNA2 chip is largely newer.
If valve ever stuffs Strix Halo into a more premium steam deck, it would be like an entire console generation jump.
The two gfx IPs were in direct competition for 2020, if anything, the two platforms should be on par in terms of base level capabilities. Interesting to see them go with a fullHD panel, though. 1080p@120hz bodes pretty well for general performance expectations. Curious what the battery life will be like.
strix halo in any gaming handheld would be bizarre, much as I’d love to see it. I get the feeling valve would hold out just a little while longer before pulling the trigger on a second gen.
Hear me out:
6 core CCD. Clocked real slow, but with 3D cache like the 5600x3d.
The slightly cut 32 CU GPU. Clocked real slow.
32GB of that LPDDR5X. 24GB, if the config is possible?
…OLED? I feel like there’s a much better selection of tablet screens to borrow now. If not, use whatever SKU the switch does.
I can dream, can’t I? But modern laptop GPUs/CPUs are absurdly efficient if you underclock them a little.
It’s fair to dream. I’ve no doubt the CPU core count will increase somewhat in the next iteration. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more fixed function hardware in their next (theoretical) SoC.
I’m not sure if we’d ever really see that much gfx resource in a handheld, at least for now. I agree it would be very cool but vendors need to strike a very fine balance as far as power is concerned. Could go for the ‘dock to unlock’ approach though I genuinely appreciate that the steam deck’s performance characteristics are 1:1 plugged in and on battery. Besides that, area is expensive, and the steam deck came in at an extremely attractive price in 2022 relative to other x86_64 handhelds on the market. I would hope price remains a focus to get Linux gaming and desktop experiences into more hands.
As for halo in particular, significant improvements have been made at a packaging level to minimise idle draw with the mcm design (and I think that is somewhat reflected in current OEM offerings) but it’s still not quite where you’d want it to be in a handheld system. That’s not to say it won’t get there eventually.
Steamdeck is better in every way anyway.
Nah Steamdeck is a good Switch competitor but they gonna need a Steamdeck 2 to compete Switch 2. But with those absurd game prices steam will have a big advantage with less effort.
Except it’s not. If you actually take a second to look at the specs of the hardware here it’s not quite as simple as it might seem at first glance.
I’m comparing the OLED model here since it’s most comparable to the Switch 2.
I think it’s entirely likely that Switch 2 will perform much better with ports of modern games, where the Steam Deck is starting to show its age and really struggling here.
I love my Steam Deck and it’s fantastic for playing smaller budget indie games, older games, emulated games, and tackling my backlog. But any AAA game that’s come out say in the last year or two? Forget it. It’s just not a good experience. Even BG3 which is Verified was just fine. I played it a lot on my Deck but would it perform better on Switch 2? Probably yes.
It’ll definitely be interesting to see how performance of third party titles shakes out between the two.
Well, except the games that’ll only work on Switch and not Steam Deck.
What about the thousands of games that work on Steam Deck and not on a Switch 2?
What about them? The statement was that the Steam Deck is better in every way. I provided a counter example.
I own both a Steam Deck and a Switch, and I enjoy using both. I buy way more games on Steam than Switch, but I still think the Switch is a worthwhile purchase.
Eh, Nintendo copyright striking switch emulators right before this release makes me wonder if Switch 2 games can be emulated in the same fashion. If so, then that leaves mainly online multiplayer games that can’t be played, and online switch games are not a great experience.
Which, reasonably, should work anywhere and not only on Switch. But of course we must arbitrarily create scarcity for more profit.
Donkey Kong sucks!
Thems fightin words
It felt really bad during the third party showcase for games like Elden Ring and Hogwarts that have been available on the steam deck since launch.
I just bought a refurbished steam deck last year for less than the price of the Switch 2 and will have a hard time justifying the purchase. I do love Nintendo though and typically buy a good chunk of their first party games. The new 3D DK looks amazing and I loved the BotW Warriors title, so I have high hopes for the new as well.
Let’s be real, the Steam Deck is not a console and not designed for a broad market like most consoles.
Valve has done a great job, but tinkering is required if you really want to play everything on it.
People here have been yelling “haha, steam deck better”, but they’re simply not the target demographic these new releases are for.
You couldn’t have said it better, I swear nobody knows the Steam Deck outside of Lemmy or Reddit in my close circle lol.
Also, I don’t mind tinkering, but for me Valve hasn’t done a great job there either because even to this day I can’t purchase one officially from Mexico LMAO.
?