With recent big game releases, it’s become obvious that a game is either a resounding success, or complete shit. There doesn’t seem to be any middle ground.
Kingdom Come Deliverance II is a ambitious masterpiece, and Avowed is lazy slop.
93% of Steam users recommend KCD2, vs 77% for Avowed.
And maybe this has been an issue for a long time, fed by the need to get viewer numbers on articles and videos, leading to more polarized opinions that give people a reason to pick a side, even if they’re never going to play the game.
But as regular people, gamers, Lemmy posters, why are we doing the same? How is it serving us? Are we all influencers in waiting, hoping to up our updoot count and build a following of… dozens?
More than 2/3rds of players of Dragon Age Veilguard recommend the game on Steam. And yet reading the comments here and other places, you’d think that 90% of people who tried the game found it to be, not just bad, but absolute trash, with a small number of people chiming in that they actually enjoyed it.
And game studios are reacting much the same way, and are quick to start layoffs, or shut down all together.
But hey, we don’t owe those corporations anything.
But, as a community, do we owe it to each other to foster more honest correspondence?
We do have a problem of polarisation. But on the other hand we also have a problem of too many games, so we simply can’t play them all. This leads us to a need to choose which one to pick. And a bad choice is very bad, because games are expensive and time consuming.
Now the real problem is when a community mistaken a new game for another. Like avowed was considered a terrible game because the leader scroll fanboys thought it would be their next game, and it wasn’t. Anyone who know what old school bioware games were will certainly love avowed.
Now while veilgard is not a bad game, is it actually good? I’m not informed enough yet about it, but bioware has been terrible in the last decade, so I am clearly very wary of what they’re doing.
I will wait for a discount for both those games, and I’ll play avowed first because I’m informed and careful, and I have other games to play already.
On the side there’s also the problem of fascist propaganda that will brand a game woke a try to destroy it.
Makes me appreciate reviews that are able to give pros and cons to the game, and the ones that are able to say an opinion between “best game ever” and “absolute trash”. Which I still often see on the Steam reviews, usually voted as one of the Most Helpful!
93% vs 77% doesn’t strike me as polarized. 16% difference?
77% doesn’t even seem that bad if it’s a style of game I like. From about 2001 I used to see sci fi movies that looked interesting as long as they had at least a 25% Rotten Tomatoes score because my tastes were different.
Is there something I’m missing? I haven’t played either game and I haven’t looked at reviews. Won’t buy KCD (no character creation) and probably will eventually buy Avowed.
The thing is, those reviews must be left by someone who purchased it. It’s got a self-selection bias. People purchased it presumably expecting to like it. They thought it would be a style of game they enjoyed. Most people who think it isn’t something they’ll like will just pass over it and not buy it, and obviously not effect the score.
From what I’ve heard, its mostly people expecting the game to be more dynamic - more akin to Skyrim’s varied gameplay systems or Fallout: NV’s story and quests. They’re going in expecting something with heavy RPG focus and getting something more action focused.
Obsidian getting dinged in reviews for making more focused games that don’t waste your time and don’t bet their company’s entire future on its budget and scope has been very frustrating to see.
They still average out to be very positive scores, so I don’t think we can say most people don’t want what they’re making, and no viewpoint is universal, so don’t put words in my mouth.
But you’ll see the same people asking for a more sustainable game industry complain about what they find when they see it.
Only heard a couple people talk about it online (that I trust to be reasonable) and they basically said it was fine but didn’t blow them away. And that’s fine but it makes for boring “cOnTeNt”.
It’s just the natural result of the sensationalizing of the news. Far more likely to get clicks or views saying something is fantastic or horrible. The grey areas don’t make $$$.
People generally don’t talk too much about things that don’t particularly stand out. If a game is bad, people will complain. If a game is good, people will praise it. If a game is middling, most people will just move on. Nobody’s going to start a discussion about a game that was vaguely enjoyable but not noteworthy, unless expectations were unreasonably high to begin with.
People are more likely to go online and complain than to compliment. But why take internet comments so seriously. I have a handful of trusted sources that I use to get my opinions on games. DLC Podcast for example is a favorite of mine. I’ve gotten to know their tastes and where they overlap with mine so when they get excited about a specific thing I’ll know if I’m likely to enjoy it based on our shared interests.
When you get a handful of voices that have a strong overlap with your own taste then you can get outside of the tribalistic bitching of the hive. Comments don’t even concern me anymore.
It’s been a problem for awhile. The media needs clicks so saying something is 7.5/10 doesn’t really drive engagement. Gamers have especially fed into this narrative because the media surrounding new products is always filled with hype and billed as the next greatest thing. It’s caused justified pushback from the community, but I think the pendulum has swung a bit in the other direction now. It’s tough feeling lukewarm about something when you’ve been told it’s supposed to be great. Additionally, the publishers, and some developers, in this industry are greedy cutthroats, which has made them easy targets for people’s frustration. The problem is now that frustration is focused on EVERYTHING involving the games industry.
i don’t think they are polarising. imo, 77% is mid. nothing bad with a “just okay” game. sometimes you just want to play the experience of a new familiar world and this is it.
with tiktokers though, a mid game has less to talk about and so their narratives make what little or so difference sound like a big deal. sensationalism is where the money is for them.
i guess a good list of fair and reliable sources would help out here.
A game is also more than the aggregate of its review scores. An average of 81 on Open Critic is derived from those who rated it a 6 and those who loved it enough to give it a 9 or a 10.
I’ve learned a long time ago that if you just wait a few years these games will go on sale for $20 and will have enough informed reviews to help make a solid purchasing decision. Gamers need to get off this new release hype train and be patient. I personally won’t play KCD 2, I disliked the first one. I will probably try Avowed in a few years after I get through my existing backlog of ~100 unplayed games in Steam. We are spoiled for choice and the market is filled with good indie games.
The only problem is that people are idiots, especially online. Go to any comment section and you’ll find people angry at the content, no matter what the content is. And you’re taking them seriously, for some reason. Laugh at them and move on, no more polarization problem. As you’ve said, 77% of people enjoyed avowed. Probably even more, as people are a lot more likely to leave a bad review than a good one.
With recent big game releases, it’s become obvious that a game is either a resounding success, or complete shit. There doesn’t seem to be any middle ground.
You’re saying this from a player opinion perspective which is accurate, but it’s also interesting that companies act the same way. If a big game doesn’t make 10 zillion dollars now there’s a good chance the entire company gets shut down.
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We do have a problem of polarisation. But on the other hand we also have a problem of too many games, so we simply can’t play them all. This leads us to a need to choose which one to pick. And a bad choice is very bad, because games are expensive and time consuming.
Now the real problem is when a community mistaken a new game for another. Like avowed was considered a terrible game because the leader scroll fanboys thought it would be their next game, and it wasn’t. Anyone who know what old school bioware games were will certainly love avowed.
Now while veilgard is not a bad game, is it actually good? I’m not informed enough yet about it, but bioware has been terrible in the last decade, so I am clearly very wary of what they’re doing.
I will wait for a discount for both those games, and I’ll play avowed first because I’m informed and careful, and I have other games to play already.
On the side there’s also the problem of fascist propaganda that will brand a game woke a try to destroy it.
Makes me appreciate reviews that are able to give pros and cons to the game, and the ones that are able to say an opinion between “best game ever” and “absolute trash”. Which I still often see on the Steam reviews, usually voted as one of the Most Helpful!
93% vs 77% doesn’t strike me as polarized. 16% difference?
77% doesn’t even seem that bad if it’s a style of game I like. From about 2001 I used to see sci fi movies that looked interesting as long as they had at least a 25% Rotten Tomatoes score because my tastes were different.
Is there something I’m missing? I haven’t played either game and I haven’t looked at reviews. Won’t buy KCD (no character creation) and probably will eventually buy Avowed.
The thing is, those reviews must be left by someone who purchased it. It’s got a self-selection bias. People purchased it presumably expecting to like it. They thought it would be a style of game they enjoyed. Most people who think it isn’t something they’ll like will just pass over it and not buy it, and obviously not effect the score.
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From what I’ve heard, its mostly people expecting the game to be more dynamic - more akin to Skyrim’s varied gameplay systems or Fallout: NV’s story and quests. They’re going in expecting something with heavy RPG focus and getting something more action focused.
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Obsidian getting dinged in reviews for making more focused games that don’t waste your time and don’t bet their company’s entire future on its budget and scope has been very frustrating to see.
Because as it turns out, most people don’t want games like that, only a very small, very loud minority wants 20min ‘focused’ games.
You’re upset that a viewpoint you hold is not actually the universal common viewpoint you thought it was.
They still average out to be very positive scores, so I don’t think we can say most people don’t want what they’re making, and no viewpoint is universal, so don’t put words in my mouth.
But you’ll see the same people asking for a more sustainable game industry complain about what they find when they see it.
Only heard a couple people talk about it online (that I trust to be reasonable) and they basically said it was fine but didn’t blow them away. And that’s fine but it makes for boring “cOnTeNt”.
It’s just the natural result of the sensationalizing of the news. Far more likely to get clicks or views saying something is fantastic or horrible. The grey areas don’t make $$$.
People generally don’t talk too much about things that don’t particularly stand out. If a game is bad, people will complain. If a game is good, people will praise it. If a game is middling, most people will just move on. Nobody’s going to start a discussion about a game that was vaguely enjoyable but not noteworthy, unless expectations were unreasonably high to begin with.
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People are more likely to go online and complain than to compliment. But why take internet comments so seriously. I have a handful of trusted sources that I use to get my opinions on games. DLC Podcast for example is a favorite of mine. I’ve gotten to know their tastes and where they overlap with mine so when they get excited about a specific thing I’ll know if I’m likely to enjoy it based on our shared interests.
When you get a handful of voices that have a strong overlap with your own taste then you can get outside of the tribalistic bitching of the hive. Comments don’t even concern me anymore.
Good ole Jeff Cannata!
Yup! Also the other host Christian appeals to the Sega kid in me. He’ll uncover gems that evoke the Dreamcast era.
It’s been a problem for awhile. The media needs clicks so saying something is 7.5/10 doesn’t really drive engagement. Gamers have especially fed into this narrative because the media surrounding new products is always filled with hype and billed as the next greatest thing. It’s caused justified pushback from the community, but I think the pendulum has swung a bit in the other direction now. It’s tough feeling lukewarm about something when you’ve been told it’s supposed to be great. Additionally, the publishers, and some developers, in this industry are greedy cutthroats, which has made them easy targets for people’s frustration. The problem is now that frustration is focused on EVERYTHING involving the games industry.
i don’t think they are polarising. imo, 77% is mid. nothing bad with a “just okay” game. sometimes you just want to play the experience of a new familiar world and this is it.
with tiktokers though, a mid game has less to talk about and so their narratives make what little or so difference sound like a big deal. sensationalism is where the money is for them.
i guess a good list of fair and reliable sources would help out here.
A game is also more than the aggregate of its review scores. An average of 81 on Open Critic is derived from those who rated it a 6 and those who loved it enough to give it a 9 or a 10.
I’ve learned a long time ago that if you just wait a few years these games will go on sale for $20 and will have enough informed reviews to help make a solid purchasing decision. Gamers need to get off this new release hype train and be patient. I personally won’t play KCD 2, I disliked the first one. I will probably try Avowed in a few years after I get through my existing backlog of ~100 unplayed games in Steam. We are spoiled for choice and the market is filled with good indie games.
The only problem is that people are idiots, especially online. Go to any comment section and you’ll find people angry at the content, no matter what the content is. And you’re taking them seriously, for some reason. Laugh at them and move on, no more polarization problem. As you’ve said, 77% of people enjoyed avowed. Probably even more, as people are a lot more likely to leave a bad review than a good one.
You’re saying this from a player opinion perspective which is accurate, but it’s also interesting that companies act the same way. If a big game doesn’t make 10 zillion dollars now there’s a good chance the entire company gets shut down.