If you haven’t seen this yet, Google is planning to require mandatory developer
identity verification for all Android apps, including apps distributed outside
the Play Store, taking effect September 2026. This affects every independent
and open source Android developer directly.
This is not just about the Play Store. After September 2026, on any certified
Android device, applications from unverified developers will be blocked by
default. The only proposed bypass, the “advanced flow”, exists only as a
blog post and has not appeared in any beta, dev preview, or canary release.
No one outside Google has seen it.
Is Jolla any good now? I was using the Jolla C about ten years ago and it showed some promise but it was very clunky to use.
Also the Android runtime was based on 4.4 which was very outdated even at the time so loads of apps didn’t work even with the Android support layer due to outdated SDK.
I really want Linux phones to do well but that’s been my only experience so far
I was already looking flashing my Fairphone with Sailfish. But this move of Google is the final straw. Sailfish fully supports android apps. I’m already running every google app in a sandbox and stopped using my contactless payment.
With this, you can’t get it on your phone. And, given how much Google is sucking up to tRump, they want to help him shut this down along with all the other evil.
Ya, this is their new workflow for people who dont authentic themselves.
Turn on developer mode and choose the right setting, reboot phone, wait 24h, then you can install anything. You have the option to stay like this, or revert to 24h wait after 7 days.
Edit: they just announced it in the past few days.
How familiar with this are you? I’m pretty sure most MDMs have to play nice with the rules set by GMS. There are MDMs made by the OEMs of some HW brands, and they have the system signature in their MDM agent for sideloading, but even then if they’re GMS compatible and not AOSP there are limitations to what they can control from GMS’s influence.
I’m familiar with Googles policy stating that apps deployed to Enterprise / Managed devices won’t require developer verification.
Non OEM Device Management apps are registered with Google Enterprise, so they are known apps with known signatures. They aren’t really classified as sidesoading, they are considered to be their own app store.
Yeah, about the same time we started cutting Google out of our day to day. Every time we hear about Google it’s just getting more and more evil/greedy in one way or another
I don’t get it… Google‘s main appeal over Apple is that you can install anything on Android. It runs worse, is less stable and sometimes just does dumb stuff.
That’s like if Nintendo would get rid of Mario/Pokémon
I don’t think that’s really the main appeal, honestly. The main appeal is just that it isn’t Apple. And were I someone who didn’t care about the installation of third-party applications, I wouldn’t be running to buy an iPhone. Android is just plain more customizable and if you need a quality of life feature, you’re probably going to find some way to have it.
You can get an iPhone at around 500$. Below that price, sure, Android is good. But once you reach the price at which you could get an iPhone, why not get one in the first place? Android isn’t more customizable in this day and age than iPhone.
Besides custom launchers and icons, the only thing that comes to my mind is custom WhatsApp messaging sound.
Indeed, since the company behind Android+PlayServices also sells phones running Android+PlayServices. But aside from this it’s on me for reading something that was not written.
Android’s own appeal probably died somewhere in 2013 or 2014, but it has always kept strong for a very simple reason: phone prices. You could either pay 700 dollars for an iphone, or 200 for an android
Google is trash. Next phone will absolutely be one of those upcoming graphene supporting Motorola phones. I’ll grab an old phone to test out postmarketos too
The flow goes like this: Governments make a law requiring verification of devices on phone networks, phone carriers require an encrypted key to connect to the network, that key is only made available to approved OS developers… we need an entirely protected chain.
I believe Google owns (maybe it’s past tense now) Motorola phone division. The purchase was a power move to Samsung who was trying to push their own store that skirted googles cut.
It is past tense. They are currently owned by Lenovo, which is a Chinese company.
In 2012, Google acquired Motorola Mobility for $12.5 billion, with the intention of using the company’s patents to bolster its Android operating system. However, Google’s ownership of Motorola Mobility was short-lived. In 2014, the search giant sold the company to Lenovo for $2.91 billion.
That doesn’t help anyone getting a new device, or if they retroactively brick the ability to root your devices that were previously able. I was going to root the S23 Ultra I type this on, but that is not longer possible as I missed the memo on Samsung flat out removing the ability to do so.
Wait a 24 hour delay? Damn. I heard a month or so ago that they had planned to back down on the strict sideloading ban, and came into the comments to point that out. But a mandatory 24 hour waiting period (something, if memory serves, America can’t even do to own literal deadly weapons)‽ Geez that’s way worse than I was expecting.
Define good? I mean if you look at the work they’ve been doing over the past decade, as such a tiny company, it’s objectively awesome (sheer size, but also quality)! But I myself turned away from the first Jolla phones frustrated from all the kinks that were never fixed (in that time frame while that hardware was still viable - some were probably fixed in the meantime, some not). The experience remains a compromise: you get freedom from Big Tech, but you do not get several other things you’ve been taking for granted, because of Big Tech.
Just one example, you can run Android apps, but if your phone has a fingerprint sensor (the last Jolla community phone didn’t), Android apps can’t use it. There is the camera issue that I mentioned (Jolla is not a camera company). It’s always something, so you have to be okay with that if you want Jolla or Sailfish OS. But I will still mention that it is the most mature, full-featured mobile Linux out of all the mobile Linux efforts that have sprung up these past years. Jolla was first, and they remain ahead of the curve in this space.
I am currently using the Fairphone 6 with e/OS and I am very happy with it.
Not a heavy phone user though, as in I don’t really take pictures or play hardware heavy games etc, so I wouldn’t know how FP6 competes on those fronts.
But for everything else it has worked really well!
I’m not one for taking pictures, so I can’t really comment on that, sorry.
What I can say, compared to my previous phone (Iphone 14), is that the front camera is a little worse than that of the Iphone 14. I notice it during Video Calls.
Not camera specific, but it’s maybe worth mentioning that it sometimes also runs into small issues. For example it will sometimes not connect to my WiFi and I’ll have to restart the phone in order for it to connect again. Not a big issue, since it restarts quite fast, but for someone coming from a well established phone brand it might be a little irritating. (And it also might just be a problem for me specifically)
But these downsides are well worth it (for me) in order to have a more privacy focused mobile and also not be supporting big American Tech Companies.
Thanks for replying. I don’t play games. I’m definitely a light phone user however I like to take photos when I’m out hiking/biking. This Motorola actually takes good photos, even though it’s a “budget” phone, so I’d like something equal or better.
You should definitely consider the Jolla, but cameras are basically never great on degoogled devices, because flashing a new rom also deletes the OEM proprietary firmware, which was tailor-made for that device. What you get instead is a generic software that never comes close to matching the original quality.
I think the hardware makers who sell degoogled phones, like Fairphone, would have chance to make good cameras, but none of them have actual years of experience making cameras, as companies like Samsung and Sony do.
I don’t need fancy processing on my photos as longs as it lets me capture some kind of raw format. For photos that I actually care about the quality, a raw is better anyway.
No offense, but you’re part of a niche audience there. The vast majority of consumers just want their photos to look good (even when good means “not like reality”). “I need it to have a good camera” ia something you hear over and over again when people tell want it is important to them in a phone.
The people who are sharing photos from their phone on social media are running them through filters anyway. All the “smart” shit in the photos are essentially just built-in Instagram filters. And for that you can just download one of 3 million camera apps.
Regulators won’t be any help - Apple has always been even more locked down than that, and no one forbade it, so how are they gonna stop Google from doing the same?
IMO the only way out is to leave Android and turn to Linux completely (that means Linux hardware adaptation layers, no more Android anywhere). Some phones have already been made like this
Main-line Linux phones are really not the way, at least at the moment. Android is fine, AOSP really is an amazing project and easily one of the most impressive software projects ever advanced by humanity. AOSP-derivatives like LineageOS or GrapheneOS are just as much FOSS as any traditional Linux distribution.
AOSP is nice and everything, but you do realize with their next move, Google can take it away anytime they want, right? They actually have already taken steps that make it harder to create independent ROMs, by stopping the publication of device trees.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
DROID DOES
Welcome to the Android community on Lemmy. Here you can participate in amazing discussions and events relating to all things Android.
5. Engage respectfully: Harassment, flamebaiting, bad faith engagement, or agenda posting will result in your posts being removed. Excessive violations will result in temporary or permanent ban, depending on severity.
6. Memes are not allowed to be posts, but are allowed in the comments.
7. Posts from clickbait sources are heavily discouraged. Please de-clickbait titles if it needs to be submitted.
8. Submission statements of any length composed of your own thoughts inside the post text field are mandatory for any microblog posts, and are optional but recommended for article/image/video posts.
Ah, how I love my Jolla C2 with SailfishOS ❤️, and how exited I am to get the new Jolla Phone I pre ordered. ✌️🙏❤️
Is Jolla any good now? I was using the Jolla C about ten years ago and it showed some promise but it was very clunky to use.
Also the Android runtime was based on 4.4 which was very outdated even at the time so loads of apps didn’t work even with the Android support layer due to outdated SDK.
I really want Linux phones to do well but that’s been my only experience so far
The compatibility layer is now based on Android 13.
Google: “Only I can make malware apps!”
I was already looking flashing my Fairphone with Sailfish. But this move of Google is the final straw. Sailfish fully supports android apps. I’m already running every google app in a sandbox and stopped using my contactless payment.
It just occured to me what this is all about: shutting down the ICE tracking app. They won’t carry it on the play store, but its still being shared.
https://antifreeze.app/
With this, you can’t get it on your phone. And, given how much Google is sucking up to tRump, they want to help him shut this down along with all the other evil.
The governments put pressure on Google to police off play apps and harm because they are attached to Android so they’re being required to build this.
You can still get it, you just need to wait 24h before you can install the first app the first time, and there will be some big scary warnings.
Right, but after this change over?
Ya, this is their new workflow for people who dont authentic themselves.
Turn on developer mode and choose the right setting, reboot phone, wait 24h, then you can install anything. You have the option to stay like this, or revert to 24h wait after 7 days.
Edit: they just announced it in the past few days.
How will this affect MDM-solutions that installs apps from outside the GMS world
IIRC, Google stated that it won’t affect MDM.
Is there some sort of in between of GMS and Non-GMS that this could possibly apply to?
It would really be about MDM.
With most MDM solutions there’s an owner app that actually owns the device and can install apps directly.
How familiar with this are you? I’m pretty sure most MDMs have to play nice with the rules set by GMS. There are MDMs made by the OEMs of some HW brands, and they have the system signature in their MDM agent for sideloading, but even then if they’re GMS compatible and not AOSP there are limitations to what they can control from GMS’s influence.
I’m familiar with Googles policy stating that apps deployed to Enterprise / Managed devices won’t require developer verification.
Non OEM Device Management apps are registered with Google Enterprise, so they are known apps with known signatures. They aren’t really classified as sidesoading, they are considered to be their own app store.
So much for their “don’t be evil” policy
didnt they drop it like decade ago?
Yeah, about the same time we started cutting Google out of our day to day. Every time we hear about Google it’s just getting more and more evil/greedy in one way or another
I don’t get it… Google‘s main appeal over Apple is that you can install anything on Android. It runs worse, is less stable and sometimes just does dumb stuff. That’s like if Nintendo would get rid of Mario/Pokémon
I don’t think that’s really the main appeal, honestly. The main appeal is just that it isn’t Apple. And were I someone who didn’t care about the installation of third-party applications, I wouldn’t be running to buy an iPhone. Android is just plain more customizable and if you need a quality of life feature, you’re probably going to find some way to have it.
Yes.
I used to feel that way about stock Android, but the really useful apps dried up on Google Play a few years back.
Discovering F-Droid brought back the joy of customizing Android, for me.
My conclusions:
I’m not sure what Google has done to alienate the folks writing quality free apps, but whatever it is, most of them are only on F-Droid, already.
This feels like Google is just shutting the door on the walled garden they’ve been building for awhile.
Except now that feature is locked
You can get an iPhone at around 500$. Below that price, sure, Android is good. But once you reach the price at which you could get an iPhone, why not get one in the first place? Android isn’t more customizable in this day and age than iPhone.
Besides custom launchers and icons, the only thing that comes to my mind is custom WhatsApp messaging sound.
That was it before they got a solid fanbase. Now the main appeal is that they are mostly cheaper phones.
Cheaper, but not by far:
Why make this a table instead of a list?
I just love having to scroll horizontally to read a comment.
You are taking the flagship phones. If you want a simple, functional phone, you can find some decent ones for a price as low as 200€
Indeed, since the company behind Android+PlayServices also sells phones running Android+PlayServices. But aside from this it’s on me for reading something that was not written.
Android’s own appeal probably died somewhere in 2013 or 2014, but it has always kept strong for a very simple reason: phone prices. You could either pay 700 dollars for an iphone, or 200 for an android
Fuck Google.
Google is trash. Next phone will absolutely be one of those upcoming graphene supporting Motorola phones. I’ll grab an old phone to test out postmarketos too
The flow goes like this: Governments make a law requiring verification of devices on phone networks, phone carriers require an encrypted key to connect to the network, that key is only made available to approved OS developers… we need an entirely protected chain.
I believe Google owns (maybe it’s past tense now) Motorola phone division. The purchase was a power move to Samsung who was trying to push their own store that skirted googles cut.
It is past tense. They are currently owned by Lenovo, which is a Chinese company.
Source: https://smallusefultips.com/who-makes-motorola-phones-now/
The situation has changed recently.
Google backed down from this being mandatory this week. There will be an option to allow side loaded apps but it will require a 24h delay to enable.
https://www.androidauthority.com/google-android-sideloading-unverified-apps-new-rules-3650343/
adb is notably unaffected by this if i recall correctly - please correct me if i’m wrong
If not now, it will be soon. Why are we pretending they care?
they can’t if your device is rooted or running a different rom
That doesn’t help anyone getting a new device, or if they retroactively brick the ability to root your devices that were previously able. I was going to root the S23 Ultra I type this on, but that is not longer possible as I missed the memo on Samsung flat out removing the ability to do so.
Wait a 24 hour delay? Damn. I heard a month or so ago that they had planned to back down on the strict sideloading ban, and came into the comments to point that out. But a mandatory 24 hour waiting period (something, if memory serves, America can’t even do to own literal deadly weapons)‽ Geez that’s way worse than I was expecting.
Imagine loading a website but you need to wait for 24 hours to be able to access it
Opinions invited.
I currently have a Motorola Edge 50 Neo. It’s a great phone, a little more than a year(?) old. It can’t have LineageOS due to it’s Dimensity chipset.
I’m considering buying a Fairphone 6, then put LineageOS on it.
Is the Fairphone decent? How’s the camera?
Are there any other phones that I should consider (decent camera, will run LineageOS or similar)? Maybe the new Jolla phone?
Just rip the band aid off and go for Jolla. Keep your current phone as a backup if some apps break
I’m seriously looking at it now. I don’t give a shit about banking apps or the “socials” so that’s fine. I do want a decent camera though.
Camera is a big deal for me.
Is jolla that good? Paying a subscription isn’t the end of the world to me, as long as they are actually using the money for good, you know?
Define good? I mean if you look at the work they’ve been doing over the past decade, as such a tiny company, it’s objectively awesome (sheer size, but also quality)! But I myself turned away from the first Jolla phones frustrated from all the kinks that were never fixed (in that time frame while that hardware was still viable - some were probably fixed in the meantime, some not). The experience remains a compromise: you get freedom from Big Tech, but you do not get several other things you’ve been taking for granted, because of Big Tech. Just one example, you can run Android apps, but if your phone has a fingerprint sensor (the last Jolla community phone didn’t), Android apps can’t use it. There is the camera issue that I mentioned (Jolla is not a camera company). It’s always something, so you have to be okay with that if you want Jolla or Sailfish OS. But I will still mention that it is the most mature, full-featured mobile Linux out of all the mobile Linux efforts that have sprung up these past years. Jolla was first, and they remain ahead of the curve in this space.
I am currently using the Fairphone 6 with e/OS and I am very happy with it.
Not a heavy phone user though, as in I don’t really take pictures or play hardware heavy games etc, so I wouldn’t know how FP6 competes on those fronts.
But for everything else it has worked really well!
But not comparing the FP6’s camera with other phones: How happy are you with yours? Do you like the photos?
I’m not one for taking pictures, so I can’t really comment on that, sorry.
What I can say, compared to my previous phone (Iphone 14), is that the front camera is a little worse than that of the Iphone 14. I notice it during Video Calls.
Not camera specific, but it’s maybe worth mentioning that it sometimes also runs into small issues. For example it will sometimes not connect to my WiFi and I’ll have to restart the phone in order for it to connect again. Not a big issue, since it restarts quite fast, but for someone coming from a well established phone brand it might be a little irritating. (And it also might just be a problem for me specifically)
But these downsides are well worth it (for me) in order to have a more privacy focused mobile and also not be supporting big American Tech Companies.
Thanks for replying. I don’t play games. I’m definitely a light phone user however I like to take photos when I’m out hiking/biking. This Motorola actually takes good photos, even though it’s a “budget” phone, so I’d like something equal or better.
Looking at the hardware it almost seems like they are using the same rear camera:
Motorola:
50 MP Sony Sensor - LYTIA ® 700C f/1.8 Blende 1 µm Pixelgrösse | Quad-Pixel-Technologie für 2 µm Quad PDAF Optische Bildstabilisierung (OIS) 13 MP Kamera mit Ultra-Weitwinkelobjektiv (120° Sichtfeld) Macro Vision f/2.2 Blende 1,12 µm Pixelgrösse PDAF 10 MP Teleobjektiv 3x optischer Zoom f/2.0 Blende 1,0 µm Pixelgrösse PDAF Optische Bildstabilisierung (OIS)
FP6:
50MP Sony Lytia 700C sensor, 1/1.56", 1.0μm pixel size Quadpixel Autofocus, 10 cm minimum focusing distance, time of flight sensor Up to 10x digital zoom Optical (OIS) image stabilization Ultra Wide camera: Image sensor: 13MP, 1/3.06", 1.12μm pixel size ƒ2.2 5 elements Autofocus, Macro Mode, 2.5cm minimum focusing distance, time of flight sensor Electronic (EIS) image stabilization
But I am no expert, I’m sure there are differences due to software.
Ah damn, I messed up the formatting, but I think the info is discernible. They seem to be similar
Hey, thanks!
I didn’t think to check HW specs. Not very clever.
so … thanks. again :))
My pleasure!
Couldn’t tell you, because they refuse to sell them in my country. 😡
I like Fairphone, it’s definitely a phone. But I couldn’t tell a difference between phones anymore.
You should definitely consider the Jolla, but cameras are basically never great on degoogled devices, because flashing a new rom also deletes the OEM proprietary firmware, which was tailor-made for that device. What you get instead is a generic software that never comes close to matching the original quality. I think the hardware makers who sell degoogled phones, like Fairphone, would have chance to make good cameras, but none of them have actual years of experience making cameras, as companies like Samsung and Sony do.
I don’t need fancy processing on my photos as longs as it lets me capture some kind of raw format. For photos that I actually care about the quality, a raw is better anyway.
No offense, but you’re part of a niche audience there. The vast majority of consumers just want their photos to look good (even when good means “not like reality”). “I need it to have a good camera” ia something you hear over and over again when people tell want it is important to them in a phone.
So are people wanting a Linux phone.
The people who are sharing photos from their phone on social media are running them through filters anyway. All the “smart” shit in the photos are essentially just built-in Instagram filters. And for that you can just download one of 3 million camera apps.
Well that sucks, a decent camera is basically half of what a smartphone is. The ARM ecosystem is such trash.
Maybe an old Xperia? There is official support for unlocking the devices from SONY.
They were supposed to fight evil, not join it.
Don’tbe evil.Corporate has decided that the rules are too long and need to be trimmed a little.
They were supposed to make all the money by any means necessary as dictated by the capital, and they are doing that.
They’ve removed that phrase from their ethos a long time ago
Literally. It was big news.
I know. Some people might have missed that.
Regulators won’t be any help - Apple has always been even more locked down than that, and no one forbade it, so how are they gonna stop Google from doing the same? IMO the only way out is to leave Android and turn to Linux completely (that means Linux hardware adaptation layers, no more Android anywhere). Some phones have already been made like this
Regulators forced Google to do this lol
Main-line Linux phones are really not the way, at least at the moment. Android is fine, AOSP really is an amazing project and easily one of the most impressive software projects ever advanced by humanity. AOSP-derivatives like LineageOS or GrapheneOS are just as much FOSS as any traditional Linux distribution.
AOSP is nice and everything, but you do realize with their next move, Google can take it away anytime they want, right? They actually have already taken steps that make it harder to create independent ROMs, by stopping the publication of device trees.
Surely this will lead to the balkanisation of Android.
Motorola is going to grapheneos, Xiaomi etc go with their own app stores and so on.
But regulators forced Apple to open up a bit
L!
verified but still not responsible.