Whoopie got mad and called out Blizzard for not releasing Diablo 4 on Mac. I think it was on tiktok.
"This is what I’m asking you, Blizzard Entertainment,” Goldberg said, “This is Whoopi. You know how much I love Diablo. I would like y’all to let those of us who use our [Macs] to play. Allow us to play on the Apple. Take Diablo IV and let us do it and have a great time.”
This is hilarious to me for some reason. Like, goddamn Whoopi Goldberg loves Diablo so much (and on a Mac no less) that she went and called them out on a public tiktok?
I switched from windows to Mac… I agree. The video cards on the M1/M2 is pretty bad (no proper raytracing and such). I actually got a PS5 and use that instead for gaming (and already have a XBOX Series X)
As a user of an ecosystem that I care about, I totally do not. Why should the health of an ecosystem be dictated by my usage patterns or that of people that I know? Bit self-centered, also?
Will there be any new Macs really? Isnt everything just some iPhone/ipad with iOS soonish? I doubt macs have any relevance in the future - just like last time when there was no Steve Jobs around. I mean there arent really any apps even for their watch… So why bother? Maybe they can just usw some cloudgaming …Apple ppl love paying and subscriptions.
Maybe. But who needs it? I say nobody.
The poor Photoshop and illu guys are already getting replaced. There is no need for osx so there is no need for desktop Macs and macbooks will run IOS and be nothing but a superpowerd ipad.
Innovation with Apple is zero - they the money to do a new chip but nobody devs anymore for the iwatch since the idea how Apple wants to make business is pretty dated.
Meta app on iwatch …lol. 90s are calling and they want Apple back in the grave i hear. Or maybe Bill Gates can help them AGAIN?
Millions of developers of numerous technologies use Macs. To say macs won’t have relevance in the future is clearly uninformed. As a gaming platform, sure, Macs leave plenty to be desired, but as development computers, they work extremely well, if overpriced.
They’re also the standard in some industries, inc. design and video production. At least where I’m at. Hate the OS with a passion but not having a mixed OS workplace sucks.
That is the past. I know Photoshop ppl are getting laid off everywhere and replaced by nuke,ai and so on.Does Apple even do new desktop Workstations? Is that coke can still a thing?
Not sure what you’re talking about, a whole lot of people use MacBooks, I don’t think their market share dropped significantly. Desktop Macs, sure maybe but I think even that won’t completely die out.
You got a desktop or MacBook?
Macbook pro is pretty nice but i dont see a future for osx or desktop.
And while i agree some real professionals might keep using it for another decade but the vast majority of Adobe professionals will be replaced by other tech like AI or nuke artists etc
I got a MacBook Pro M2. It’s a good piece of hardware, MacOS was kinda annoying at first since it’s my first MacBook but I got the hang of it and it’s basically a normal desktop environment to me right now and I can’t see that changing significantly in the near future, I don’t think AI is gonna move that fast as to completely eliminate the need for typical PC desktop environments.
I stopped using it over ten years ago and dont look back at crap like quarkxpress or the finder.
Only contact with osx i have now is old people with macbooks that have troubles with user permissions and Safari. Desktop PC can strive but i doubt mac desktop or osx will be part of that.
In the earlier days of OS X this was true. A port from one to the other was somewhat trivial. However, Apple has done Apple things and tried to invent their own gaming library API after killing off OpenGL support on Macs and they’ve probably been up to some other buggery since then as well. Porting to Mac is probably equally as difficult from Windows now as Linux, and Linux has overtaken them on number of people who are playing on Steam.
Games have never been “trivial” to port to Mac, why do you think there are so few games that have been ported? Unless you write it for macOS, it’s just not easy or even worth it to port, has been since the Apple II days.
I meant the trivial portion would be porting back and forth between linux and early Mac OSX, making it a two-for-one proposition (though back then a lot of companies still chose not to do the linux port).
OSX was BSD based as well. Mac OS 9 and before were proprietary OSes. I don’t remember what the graphics underpinnings were, but I do know that porting directx to system 8.6 was a gargantuan task and the Mac ports were always 1-2 years behind pc.
They still have some pretty old version of OpenGL and Metal was a bit before Vulkan, so it’s sort of a lightning vs USB C situation.
I don’t believe that it was easy. Since it started macOS was based on BSD, not Linux, which is quite different. They also use different types of binaries and the similarities between kernels should end beyond the BSD compatibility layer. See https://wiki.freebsd.org/Myths#FreeBSD_is_Just_macOS_Without_the_Good_Bits
macOS is BSD based, not Linux based. Different graphics underpinnings as well. Apple has released some helper layers to assist in porting, but it’s still no cakewalk.
This is far from a black and white answer. A lot of the first gen steam machine ‘ports’, including those from Valve, Aspyr, Feral and Virtual Programming used source code level wrapper libraries to convert D3D calls to OpenGL. This added a little bit of extra overhead to the port so a lot of these early ports suffered a little slower performance (in my opinion an average of about 15% slower). These ports were compiled from source code so they were still native ports, if a little half-assed for time and manpower’s sake. As time went on Valve and VP’s wrappers improved to the point that you could get 1:1 performance or sometimes much better performance running the port under linux (for example VP’s wrapper would multi-thread the renderer even if the original D3D renderer was singled-threaded). Feral went on to re-code a handful of their later ports from D3D to Vulkan, again, achieving better performance under linux. A few game engines were written with linux in mind from the start, such as The Talos Principle/Serious Sam 3, and those titles, in my opinion, would be best to use to compare the relative performance of the two OS’s at that time.
Nowadays you still have a fair amount of indie titles coming out with native linux support. Not many larger titles in recent years, but you do still get some such as Psychonauts 2 and stuff from Paradox. Proton has gotten so good now that many games will run better on linux from day 1 than on Windows-steal-yo-data-11.
Does Asahi have full support for the GPU yet? Would Proton work on a non-x86-x64 architecture? Last time I tried it (around 6 months back, been a minute) it worked great for anything that didn’t need acceleration but I didn’t think it could handle much more.
Steve Jobs quite openly hated the idea of anyone gaming on a Mac because he felt like it made their products seem more childish or something. It seems like either nobody at Apple has managed to dig that particular brainworm out yet or have just decided that printing iPhone money makes all other concerns irrelevant.
Actually, they kinda do take responsibility for mac gaming. They helped develop https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK which basically runs Vulkan on Metal. The Linux version uses Vulkan, so in theory it shouldn’t be too hard to port, they just didn’t.
That’s funny because my son compared CS2 on my MacBook Pro vs his RTX 3060 PC build we put together last winter and he said how much more responsive the game felt on the Mac.
That it works is one thing. That it always works as expected is another. Apple doesn’t want to take responsibility for that, and neither does Valve, when there’s not enough paying customers on that platform. It is what it is. Now the Proton layer is one thing, because Valve is selling Steam Decks. They will want that to become a big thing. They’ll go back to selling Steam Boxes (the living room console thing).
We were discussing who supports the product. But interestingly CodeWeavers is responsible for over two-thirds of all commits to Wine, and the company also employs Wine’s primary maintainer, Alexandre Julliard, as its CTO.
They ship an outdated and unreliable implementation 😅 There are things that use it, but my understanding is you couldn’t use it in the same way you can on other platforms.
Really just repackaged Proton, with some ridiculous install requirements including fucking Homebrew.
It’s not even Alpha level software right now. But, just to argue their side: it is meant as a preview for game developers to package their games with right now, and not the general public.
I guess I don’t really like the idea of a large company using a tool like Homebrew, I feel at that point they should write/include their own package manager.
I might be sounding pedantic, so feel free to ignore me if you’re a Homebrew fan, but it just irks me that the package manager is installed via curl’ing a shell script from their github project, and that the entire repo itself is stored on Github.
Even Microsoft has winget; dunno why a company the size of Apple can’t just roll a proper, secure way to distribute packages.
Also, as far as other package managers go, there’s Macports.
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Damn Whoopie Goldberg gonna be so mad
Can you explain this joke, seen it more than once guessing she was used in apple marketing?
Whoopie got mad and called out Blizzard for not releasing Diablo 4 on Mac. I think it was on tiktok.
https://kotaku.com/diablo-4-iv-for-mac-whoopi-goldberg-upset-blizzard-port-1850519443
This is hilarious to me for some reason. Like, goddamn Whoopi Goldberg loves Diablo so much (and on a Mac no less) that she went and called them out on a public tiktok?
That’s awesome.
And didnt just buy a gaming PC as a millionaire.
I imagine the time it takes to get used to Windows/Linux would be more effort than spending the cost of a gaming PC
I switched from windows to Mac… I agree. The video cards on the M1/M2 is pretty bad (no proper raytracing and such). I actually got a PS5 and use that instead for gaming (and already have a XBOX Series X)
What…even a lot of niche games support Mac because there is a market there. But I am not playing a shooter on Mac anyway so whatever.
As a Mac user, I’m fine with this tbh. I don’t game on my Mac and most people I know with one don’t either.
As a user of an ecosystem that I care about, I totally do not. Why should the health of an ecosystem be dictated by my usage patterns or that of people that I know? Bit self-centered, also?
Also, today’s Apple fans and their “Apple-no-gaming” fiction are too quick to “forget” Bungie and how upset Steve Jobs was when Halo became Microsoft-exclusive. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/jobs-turned-down-bungie-at-first-how-microsoft-burned-apple/
Will there be any new Macs really? Isnt everything just some iPhone/ipad with iOS soonish? I doubt macs have any relevance in the future - just like last time when there was no Steve Jobs around. I mean there arent really any apps even for their watch… So why bother? Maybe they can just usw some cloudgaming …Apple ppl love paying and subscriptions.
lol MacBooks are insanely good with the release of the M chips, this opinion you’re sporting is pretty dated.
Maybe. But who needs it? I say nobody. The poor Photoshop and illu guys are already getting replaced. There is no need for osx so there is no need for desktop Macs and macbooks will run IOS and be nothing but a superpowerd ipad. Innovation with Apple is zero - they the money to do a new chip but nobody devs anymore for the iwatch since the idea how Apple wants to make business is pretty dated.
Meta app on iwatch …lol. 90s are calling and they want Apple back in the grave i hear. Or maybe Bill Gates can help them AGAIN?
Millions of developers of numerous technologies use Macs. To say macs won’t have relevance in the future is clearly uninformed. As a gaming platform, sure, Macs leave plenty to be desired, but as development computers, they work extremely well, if overpriced.
They’re also the standard in some industries, inc. design and video production. At least where I’m at. Hate the OS with a passion but not having a mixed OS workplace sucks.
That is the past. I know Photoshop ppl are getting laid off everywhere and replaced by nuke,ai and so on.Does Apple even do new desktop Workstations? Is that coke can still a thing?
People have been saying that for years
Not sure what you’re talking about, a whole lot of people use MacBooks, I don’t think their market share dropped significantly. Desktop Macs, sure maybe but I think even that won’t completely die out.
They are just ipads soon.
I’m not sure if that’ll happen any time soon, they’d lose out on the IT professionals, audio professionals etc.
I got one just this year and it certainly doesn’t feel like an iPad at all.
You got a desktop or MacBook? Macbook pro is pretty nice but i dont see a future for osx or desktop. And while i agree some real professionals might keep using it for another decade but the vast majority of Adobe professionals will be replaced by other tech like AI or nuke artists etc
I got a MacBook Pro M2. It’s a good piece of hardware, MacOS was kinda annoying at first since it’s my first MacBook but I got the hang of it and it’s basically a normal desktop environment to me right now and I can’t see that changing significantly in the near future, I don’t think AI is gonna move that fast as to completely eliminate the need for typical PC desktop environments.
I stopped using it over ten years ago and dont look back at crap like quarkxpress or the finder. Only contact with osx i have now is old people with macbooks that have troubles with user permissions and Safari. Desktop PC can strive but i doubt mac desktop or osx will be part of that.
Whoopi Goldberg is gonna be pissed.
That makes sense but I assumed that since it’s also on Linux, it would be a 0 effort port
It could be a 0 effort port but there will be a ton of working fixing issues and making sure it works on new OS versions etc
In the earlier days of OS X this was true. A port from one to the other was somewhat trivial. However, Apple has done Apple things and tried to invent their own gaming library API after killing off OpenGL support on Macs and they’ve probably been up to some other buggery since then as well. Porting to Mac is probably equally as difficult from Windows now as Linux, and Linux has overtaken them on number of people who are playing on Steam.
Games have never been “trivial” to port to Mac, why do you think there are so few games that have been ported? Unless you write it for macOS, it’s just not easy or even worth it to port, has been since the Apple II days.
I meant the trivial portion would be porting back and forth between linux and early Mac OSX, making it a two-for-one proposition (though back then a lot of companies still chose not to do the linux port).
OSX was BSD based as well. Mac OS 9 and before were proprietary OSes. I don’t remember what the graphics underpinnings were, but I do know that porting directx to system 8.6 was a gargantuan task and the Mac ports were always 1-2 years behind pc.
But even OSX was BSD, not Linux.
They still have some pretty old version of OpenGL and Metal was a bit before Vulkan, so it’s sort of a lightning vs USB C situation.
I don’t believe that it was easy. Since it started macOS was based on BSD, not Linux, which is quite different. They also use different types of binaries and the similarities between kernels should end beyond the BSD compatibility layer. See https://wiki.freebsd.org/Myths#FreeBSD_is_Just_macOS_Without_the_Good_Bits
There’s no such thing as a zero-effort port
macOS is BSD based, not Linux based. Different graphics underpinnings as well. Apple has released some helper layers to assist in porting, but it’s still no cakewalk.
It would be, if you use macOS on an intel CPU with an AMD GPU.
But porting it to an entirely different CPU and GPU architecture with entirely different graphics API (Metal) makes no sense whatsoever.
Isn’t the Linux version just the windows version running with the usual compatibility layers (proton or whatever)? In other words, not an actual port?
This is far from a black and white answer. A lot of the first gen steam machine ‘ports’, including those from Valve, Aspyr, Feral and Virtual Programming used source code level wrapper libraries to convert D3D calls to OpenGL. This added a little bit of extra overhead to the port so a lot of these early ports suffered a little slower performance (in my opinion an average of about 15% slower). These ports were compiled from source code so they were still native ports, if a little half-assed for time and manpower’s sake. As time went on Valve and VP’s wrappers improved to the point that you could get 1:1 performance or sometimes much better performance running the port under linux (for example VP’s wrapper would multi-thread the renderer even if the original D3D renderer was singled-threaded). Feral went on to re-code a handful of their later ports from D3D to Vulkan, again, achieving better performance under linux. A few game engines were written with linux in mind from the start, such as The Talos Principle/Serious Sam 3, and those titles, in my opinion, would be best to use to compare the relative performance of the two OS’s at that time.
Nowadays you still have a fair amount of indie titles coming out with native linux support. Not many larger titles in recent years, but you do still get some such as Psychonauts 2 and stuff from Paradox. Proton has gotten so good now that many games will run better on linux from day 1 than on Windows-steal-yo-data-11.
No, it’s native Linux with native Vulkan as well.
The Linux version of cs:go had native logic and wrapped rendering via valve’s ToGL from before proton. CS2 is fully native though.
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Nope, its native
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/09/counter-strike-2-is-out-now-with-linux-support/
is this a surprise to anyone?
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…what do you mean? It’s not like Mac support was near universal before either
Is there a Proton-like software for Mac?
Wine is available for Mac, and Apple has started work on their game toolkit which was shown to run cyberpunk (albeit not well)
So yeah, but you’re probably better off just dual booting asahi tbh.
Does Asahi have full support for the GPU yet? Would Proton work on a non-x86-x64 architecture? Last time I tried it (around 6 months back, been a minute) it worked great for anything that didn’t need acceleration but I didn’t think it could handle much more.
I think everyone would rather development effort for games go into Linux as opposed to macOS.
Apple: only implements a proprietary graphics API
Also Apple: Why does no one make games for my platform??
Steve Jobs quite openly hated the idea of anyone gaming on a Mac because he felt like it made their products seem more childish or something. It seems like either nobody at Apple has managed to dig that particular brainworm out yet or have just decided that printing iPhone money makes all other concerns irrelevant.
This is absolutely not true, certainly not at the time of Bungie and how Microsoft made Halo Xbox-exclusive: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/jobs-turned-down-bungie-at-first-how-microsoft-burned-apple/
Luckily it plays on Apple Silicon Macs beautifully through CrossOver. In the MacGaming sub users are getting 100+fps.
It does, but Valve doesn’t spend money in taking any responsibility over it. Also I presume anticheat might not work properly.
In any scenario, the translation layer has a performance impact which for any competitive player is something that makes Apple a no-go.
Actually, they kinda do take responsibility for mac gaming. They helped develop https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK which basically runs Vulkan on Metal. The Linux version uses Vulkan, so in theory it shouldn’t be too hard to port, they just didn’t.
Because, again, they don’t want bad press when the translation layer doesn’t play ball with anticheat, or some other tech.
it’s literally just graphics, does nothing with anticheat, look at reshade, unless you use library-modifying addons it won’t be picked up by anticheat
Lol. It most definitely is not.
Elaborate? Are you confusing MoltenVK with wine?
That’s funny because my son compared CS2 on my MacBook Pro vs his RTX 3060 PC build we put together last winter and he said how much more responsive the game felt on the Mac.
That it works is one thing. That it always works as expected is another. Apple doesn’t want to take responsibility for that, and neither does Valve, when there’s not enough paying customers on that platform. It is what it is. Now the Proton layer is one thing, because Valve is selling Steam Decks. They will want that to become a big thing. They’ll go back to selling Steam Boxes (the living room console thing).
If Apple wants to ride that wave, they could.
Yes, CodeWeavers takes responsibility, Crossover is their product. Same company that originally created Proton for Valve. Solid product.
Wrong. Just fucking wrong. Graphics was solved ages ago. Anticheat for mp has not.
CS:GO had anticheat and was on Mac for ages. Granted they updated it to Live, but the underlying principles of design are still the same.
No you’re wrong. MP works just fine in CS2.
No need to have a meltdown because Mac users are enjoying the game too. lol.
Wine was not created by CodeWeavers
We were discussing who supports the product. But interestingly CodeWeavers is responsible for over two-thirds of all commits to Wine, and the company also employs Wine’s primary maintainer, Alexandre Julliard, as its CTO.
Is this true? Could I not do OpenGL on a Mac?
CS 2 isn’t on open gl
They ship an outdated and unreliable implementation 😅 There are things that use it, but my understanding is you couldn’t use it in the same way you can on other platforms.
OpenGL is a fossil at this point.
Is it not still maintained and the simplest graphics API available of the big three?
I learned that OpenGL is no longer maintained on Mac. I understand it’s on a might work but no guarantee status and no help if it breaks.
The game still needs to support it, and very few things support OpenGL afaik.
Whoopie is not going to be happy
Was CS:GO available natively on Mac? If so, this is unfortunate news for the small subset of Mac users who played, since CS:GO is now no more.
I heard they’re offering refunds to any users who had the majority of playtime on MacOS although I’m not sure that means much for an esports title
Available, yes. Playable, greatly depends on how much GPU you bought with your Mac.
That’s true for windows as well
Can’t just chuck a 2080 in a Mac though
Most AMD cards work just fine in an external GPU enclosure (or in a PCIe slot on the Mac Pro)
Cs:go could definitely run will enough on integrated graphics to play comp if your processor wasn’t too anemic.
Yeah LMAO I used to play csgo on a 2015 Macbook pro hand me down. It was dualboot with windows, to be fair.
It will probably work soon with that Windows compatibility thing apple is working on
The one that explicitly states in its license that you’re not allowed to ship anything using it?
just install windows-version of steam, and a windows-version of CS:2, same way wine on linux works for blizzard launcher
It’s meant more to help developers with their porting efforts though, not really meant for normal users like Valve’s doing with Proton.
You mean repackaged Wine that they’re pretending to have invented? Yeah should do.
Really just repackaged Proton, with some ridiculous install requirements including fucking Homebrew.
It’s not even Alpha level software right now. But, just to argue their side: it is meant as a preview for game developers to package their games with right now, and not the general public.
Still… Fucking Homebrew.
Okay but it’s like, what other package managers exist on MacOS?
Obviously they’re going to include Homebrew to fulfill dependencies in a more curated way than just bringing them down with the installer itself.
There’s MacPorts but Homebrew is by far the most common package manager on MacOS. I wouldn’t use Homebrew on Linux personally but it’s great on Mac
I guess I don’t really like the idea of a large company using a tool like Homebrew, I feel at that point they should write/include their own package manager.
I might be sounding pedantic, so feel free to ignore me if you’re a Homebrew fan, but it just irks me that the package manager is installed via curl’ing a shell script from their github project, and that the entire repo itself is stored on Github.
Even Microsoft has winget; dunno why a company the size of Apple can’t just roll a proper, secure way to distribute packages.
Also, as far as other package managers go, there’s Macports.
They have a proper, secure way to distribute packages - the app store. It just happens to be a GUI solution and not a CLI one.
Sure, exactly. So why do I need to install a third party CLI package manager for a first party suite of tools?
Like, xcode-select is able to grab dependencies. There’s no reason why a similar binary can’t be delivered with the porting sdk.