They cannot for now, old.reddit still drives a LOT of traffic for them and most of the reddit oldheads from what ive seen just use old reddit to surf the site, so if they’re not stupid enough to drive a huge part of their userbase away from their shithole to sites like lemmy and turn into digg 2.0, I don’t see old reddit dying for awhile but remember this is spez we’re talking about in the end, the self proclaimed Elon fanboi, so I cannot expect any intelligent decision from him.
If those users are just dead weight to them, it makes business sense to even convert 10% them to their main ad filled product, and let the 90% go away. They want to go public and sell, they are definitely last stage of pulling a cash grab.
According to Reddit last year, while only 4% of users are on old.reddit, 60% of all mod actions are carried out on it. They can’t get rid of it for now, but they are working on bringing updates to modding on new.reddit or newnew.reddit (nickname given by me).
Early 2024 is the estimated rollout for this, so I’d say mid-to-late 2024 is when old.reddit is kicked to the curb.
With old reddit you can block ads on the side and ads that pretend to be posts have a blueish hue, so it’s easy to scroll past without paying attention.
“New” reddit the images/videos are already open so I’m sure eventually they’ll look at the decrease in ad impressions and make up an excuse to get rid of it.
Assuming none of that has changed in the couple months since I left.
The only really long term viable model is a donation model. Ad tracking is abusive and the legality is waning, and subscription models for what’s basically a public good are fucked.
If it’s a public good the government should run it, but I seriously doubt most people think of it like roads. We don’t even think of internet access as a utility.
Government financed and government run aren’t necessary the same thing. I wouldn’t want a government agency running social media for obvious reasons but a government giving out grants or the equivalent of a crown corp.
I think the fediverse could actually act as a very effective system of checks and balances. Each country could finance an instance that their citizens use while allowing the free flow of information from country to country that gives these platforms value in the first place. federation would mean the only truly effective censorship would be defederation which would at least be highly public.
But I agree, even in countries with effective governments it would be very hard to implement. But one can dream!
I wouldn’t want a government agency running social media for obvious reasons but a government giving out grants or the equivalent of a crown corp.
It just seems kind of weird to me the instinctive distrust of government for social media but complete acceptance of them for roads, physical mail, and other public services. Or maybe I’m just missing something. I mean, it’s not like the companies are showing amazing efficiency and results here.
This happened with our ambulance service - the volunteers dried up, and so we had to put it in our taxes. There was a donation push to get us to the next tax year, but then it’s something we all pay for to have an ambulance available.
propaganda. If I becomes A political dissonant they can’t really stop be using the roads. Physical mail is a crown corp where I am, they are funded by the government but the government can’t effect their day to day function, same with our state funded news org. It would be pretty bad if a rogue politician could give out an order to restrict the viability or content of the mail, like what happened with the CDC in America during the pandemic. In order for the same to happen to a crown corp you’d have to have a parliamentary vote, which would take months and involve a lot of public oversight. You’d need the same institutional checks on a new social media service too, lest they randomly or silently start censoring things.
The problem in the US is that the mail is kind of special, I just wish it wasn’t. If our government paid a company, it’d just be the same as us paying a company, and we’d still get ads, just Facebook or whoever would also get a huge government check. Not what I’d say a success or improvement.
Of course, that just says more about how bad the government is really. I just think charity (donations) is a horrible and unreliable way to run any sort of “needed service” (for a given definition of needed).
I was about to write something in my comment to the effect of, “but let’s not even talk about the government running it”. Could end up like PBS, could just as easily end up like USSR/North Korean/Chinese media. Imagine Reddit but, instead of spez, it’s Joseph McCarthy, or Donald Trump, with the power to identify and criminally sanction users.
with the power to identify and criminally sanction users.
I think in so far as people are in the jurisdiction of a given government, they generally can identify social media users already, and if they choose criminally sanction these people. In the US I’d argue the government would be far more bound by First Ammendment issues than any corporation. And you have far more redress against the government when they screw up than the current “you agree to binding arbitration” from companies. Which… honestly… says something crappy about our tort law and T&Cs allowed. My main point is that I don’t actually think social media or discussion boards are a public good. I think it should be federated like e-mail (and the fediverse) but otherwise you can choose the provider you like. This seems like the best option IMO.
Well, there’s having to put an unconstitutional demand violating the 1st/4th amendments on paper and sending it out to a company, and then there’s just being able to log in as the admin and look for the information directly. Anyway, when I say “public good”, I mean in a pretty loose sense, I prefer to see actual maintenance/management done by something like a non-profit rather than a gov agency.
Yea, except doesn’t Facebook etc often make it pretty easy - no demand, just pay us some fee and we’ll give you data? I mean, Google and Facebook are just selling the data. From what I recall hearing, the phone companies give away location data pretty similarly too. It’s not a constitutional issue if you “voluntarily” give data to a third party and they’re just willingly selling that - whether it’s to another company, individual or the government.
The largest owners are Advance Publications and Tencent. Advance also own Condé Nasty (Reddit even used to be under the Condé Nast banner). Weirdly they also own everyone’s favorite plagiarism detection service Turnitin.
yeah they aren’t IPO yet, I think a lot of stuff didn’t play nicely for them, with the ukraine war, the tech bubbles popping and the general global economic conditions things aren’t exactly favourable. I think also the backlash to 3rd party apps and their general shittiness has been hurting them a bit more than they have said.
Have been for years. Reddit is mismanaged, and the IPO is just an effort to get whatever they can before letting suckers hold the bag. They will never reach the valuation they had.
As with many things under capitalism, the ongoing mandate is that profits must go up, and must go up at a higher rate no matter what, or investors panic and the price drops steeply which can lead to a collapse. Reddit is just another ravenous profit-seeking vehicle of the same kind and is going into the same “line must go up” death spiral.
I wouldn’t say Reddit always has been owned by a malicious entity, Aaron Swartz was a cool guy. And if you’re telling me a man who freely distributed thousands of needlessly paywalled research papers is a some kind of arch capitalist, then there’s no helping you.
Honestly as a capitalist (I know, blasphemy) Aaron did the world a favor when he dropped those papers. Elsevier Wiley IEEE et al have a cartel and so many of them are NIH or DOD funded papers they should be public domain period.
The premise of our system depends on controls to avoid instilled entries extorting capital. Capitalism isn’t: it’s feudalism with extra steps
Before you congratulate yourself again for internet bravery, do you actually own capital? Do you own the means of production? If not, you’re not a capitalist even if you wave pompoms and otherwise do apologia for capitalism.
You’re not really a capitalist in a meaningful way. You might cheerlead for it, but that isn’t a means of production no matter what Uber/Lyft might tell you.
True true, I just specifically took issue with it always having been run by bastards. (I know it’s a meme template, but I just wanted to point to evidence that there is hope that not everything we use has always been yoked with pure greed. Call it a cope, IDC.)
there is hope that not everything we use has always been yoked with pure greed
If your basis for believing that is Reddit having one co-owner you liked for one year and that’s the best evidence you got, that isn’t a strong basis.
You can do sophistic tricks like exaggerating other people’s positions to try to make yours seem more tenable so you can mine for supposed exceptions, but the reality remains that capitalism requires increasingly unsustainable profit margins over time for the lifetime of each product and that consequently results in systemic enshittification of things that were previously decent and bearable. That is an inevitable ongoing process in this present system.
One co-owner being around for one year doesn’t absolve the skullduggery of the other that is still here to the present day, as another poster already mentioned.
Swartz had good beliefs about freedom of information but politically was kind of a weirdo. What happened to him is an unlimited tragedy and outright criminal.
If you look at who Spez idolizes (Musk) and how he treated and talked about the protesters…. No. He or the board doesn’t get a pass for this. This is a move stemmed 100% from financial gain and malfeasance
Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.
I call this enshittification, and it is a seemingly inevitable consequence arising from the combination of the ease of changing how a platform allocates value, combined with the nature of a “two sided market,” where a platform sits between buyers and sellers, holding each hostage to the other, raking off an ever-larger share of the value that passes between them.
Do you think maybe it’ll be different with a federated and thus less centralized platform like Lemmy? Or do you think it will just delay this process? Cause right now lemmy and kbin seem to be pretty good.
I think that the FOSS Fediverse platforms are significantly resistant to enshittification.
That same article explores what enables enshittification and what precludes it:
The Netheads wanted to build diverse networks with lots of offers, lots of competition, and easy, low-cost switching between competitors (thanks to interoperability).
Fediverse platforms:
are highly interoperable - e.g. you can use Lemmy or Kbin and still see the same posts
mostly FOSS, so anyone can fork them whenever they want if they don’t like some particular change
most instances currently aren’t operated for profit - certainly if your instance started displaying ads you could switch to another instance (or set one up) and still access all the same content as you did previously
In fediverse, the data is already public. You’ll just need to run an instance, start federating and the data will flow directly into your instance. Whether someone will somehow find a way to extract profit from this system is remain to be seen.
Whether someone will somehow find a way to extract profit from this system is remain to be seen.
I think it’s inevitable that someone will find a way to profit, even if it’s just scraping the data for training LLMs, or for something like those shitty sites that just duplicate GitHub issues.
The question of enshittification isn’t whether someone can find a way to profit, it’s whether someone can find a way to change the platform to increase their profit.
There’s no business platform here. So it will go a different path. Buy eventually the mods and instance admins who are volunteering their time and money to keep this going will wish to spend their time and money elsewhere. What happens after the first round of people who really work to make a free platform like this succeed go away? If there’s not a good deal of planning and acculturation for new people, there’s a high likelihood that a second generation of mods takes over who have different motives and reasons for running the place and the platform sees noticeable changes. Or nobody steps up at all and individual sections just end.
I honestly think the only way this could work is like email. So you either take the gmail like privacy destruction and ads, or you pay for a service. Back in the day it was bundled by the ISP, but now I think it’s way more likely to end up being some bundled ‘online service’ company that for a monthly fee provided a swath of federated content and services. But that it hasn’t sprung up implies that it’s not a workable model.
I mean the mods and admins won’t all go away at once, right? It’s probably gonna be gradual, so maybe the existing mods can keep any new/replacing mods in check? I dunno…
Plus, do you think maybe a donation model could be viable for platforms like this? It’s split over multiple instances so surely at least the smaller ones could be ran off of donation money?
Hard to say. My experience with people in general is that they’ll keep going even if things aren’t great, but they’ll get upset. And eventually things will come to a head and there’s a major change in a short period of time. This being a somewhat democratic platform, I would bet that we’ll have that sort of trajectory.
As for donations, it’s just very hard to get people to donate enough and often enough to support this kind of thing. Think of the regular donation appeals on public radio, or Wikipedia, or even The Guardian. They have a whole organization and system built around soliciting donations, and even then they are always operating on a shoestring. How often do you donate? How often do your friends and family?
I mean, I’m not denying they’re making wrong choices, and I’ve left Reddit myself, but given that they’re losing money I don’t understand how it’s considered ”greedy” to try and change that.
I am actually not even sure that is true. Some News sites like golem.de and heise.de are doing this for years. It is basically agree to this or leave the site.
This may or may not be illegal, depending on what the “this” is you’re agreeing to. As a simple example, if it is “you agree to functional cookies by continuing to use the site”, that’s fine. If it is “you agree to us scraping your computer and selling everything we find to China”, that is most definitely not legal, nor is refusing service if you don’t agree.
I’ll be very surprised if our govt does anything positive when it comes to digital rights. The current shower of arseholes in government supported the previous even bigger shower of arseholes to pass diabolical legislation like data retention and assistance and access bills.
It depends if someone bothers to sue them or not. In the EU court decisions until now point that profiling for advertising should be opt-in not opt-out but companies keep trying to find loopholes or at least hoping to not attract too much attention with their defaults.
In EU no one individual needs to sue them. The what-ever-the-office-might-be-responsible at EU burecracy will just send them an nicely worded letter that says “play by the book or we’ll give you fine big enough to bankrupt you no matter how much money you think you have”. The fine is based on company revenue (or sales, I don’t remember what it spesifically was) and there’s no way you’ll weasel yourself out of that no matter how many american lawyers you can hire. The same folks forced Apple to adapt usb-c, so good luck Spez if you try to challenge that.
One small correction: There is no EU office responsible for GDPR enforcement, the EU member states are responsible for handling GDPR breaches within their jurisdiction (Art. 51 GDPR). As an individual you can also file a complaint against offenders (Art. 77 GDPR).
As much as I want to hate Reddit’s management, this is not a move that will affect the average user too much. It’s really bad from a privacy standpoint, but a huge percentage of people don’t care too much about privacy (until it bites them). So this does (unfortunately) make ton of sense from a business standpoint.
Yeah, this is no different from how every other social media platform operates. Unfortunately it’s just the way these websites make money to stay “free for consumers”.
The only (distant) solution I can see will be the fediverse, paid for by UBI and decreasing server costs (i.e. green energy and tech breakthroughs)
Okay so what I really mean by UBI is the point that humans have successfully created an autonomous supply chain that keeps everyone fed and sheltered. AI has taken the majority of necessary jobs that humans do not wanna do, creating a surplus of resources that (in a utopia) even if 1% is distributed among the population, could be more than enough to keep fediverse software running on a server farm powered by green energy.
I don’t mean some fox news version of UBI that they think just means higher taxes and everyone becoming fat and lazy.
UBI is a compromise made by neoliberals to distract people from socialism. In practice, it challenges none of the contradictions of capitalism and will, given enough time, decay into neofeudalism. Does the idea of your life becoming an enclosure sound like a utopia?
Most of the subs I used to care about are more of a wasteland than I could’ve imagined. And come to think of it I’m starting to suspect that the demographics of social media participation in general are beginning to get narrower as well. After starting with a select few early adopters in the 1980s and then taking 30-some years to gradually broaden out to include basically “everyone” (in the anglosphere at least), people who are tired of the whole affair are perhaps starting to drop out or at least reduce their participation in significant numbers. I wonder how many of the people perceptive enough to leave reddit for one reason or another simply didn’t find anything worthy of replacing it.
Now’s a good time to advertise the fediverse, if you’re still on reddit. Just pick your favorite instance, and tell people to check it out and to click “login/register” if they like it.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.
Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.
Rules:
1: All Lemmy rules apply
2: Do not post low effort posts
3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff
4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.
5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)
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In other news, services that cost money to operate seek to make money in the process. More at 7
deleted by creator
Which Aaron are you referring to?
Aaron Swartz is dead :(
Why are you even here?
Those are all certainly words.
Bad bot.
you can’t really believe reddit, a gigantic media megacorp, is somehow strapped for cash?
You sure showed them by smuglording for your corporate masters.
They’re gonna remove old reddit aren’t they?
They cannot for now, old.reddit still drives a LOT of traffic for them and most of the reddit oldheads from what ive seen just use old reddit to surf the site, so if they’re not stupid enough to drive a huge part of their userbase away from their shithole to sites like lemmy and turn into digg 2.0, I don’t see old reddit dying for awhile but remember this is spez we’re talking about in the end, the self proclaimed Elon fanboi, so I cannot expect any intelligent decision from him.
If those users are just dead weight to them, it makes business sense to even convert 10% them to their main ad filled product, and let the 90% go away. They want to go public and sell, they are definitely last stage of pulling a cash grab.
According to Reddit last year, while only 4% of users are on old.reddit, 60% of all mod actions are carried out on it. They can’t get rid of it for now, but they are working on bringing updates to modding on new.reddit or newnew.reddit (nickname given by me).
Early 2024 is the estimated rollout for this, so I’d say mid-to-late 2024 is when old.reddit is kicked to the curb.
HAHAHAHAHHA oh man that’s funny
I’m actually surprised it’s still running, but it seems inevitable especially when they aren’t milking that sweet sweet af revenue.
With old reddit you can block ads on the side and ads that pretend to be posts have a blueish hue, so it’s easy to scroll past without paying attention.
“New” reddit the images/videos are already open so I’m sure eventually they’ll look at the decrease in ad impressions and make up an excuse to get rid of it.
Assuming none of that has changed in the couple months since I left.
All moderation tools were not available on new design last time I was there. It is still not on par with old design
That’s not gonna stop them
The only really long term viable model is a donation model. Ad tracking is abusive and the legality is waning, and subscription models for what’s basically a public good are fucked.
If it’s a public good the government should run it, but I seriously doubt most people think of it like roads. We don’t even think of internet access as a utility.
Government financed and government run aren’t necessary the same thing. I wouldn’t want a government agency running social media for obvious reasons but a government giving out grants or the equivalent of a crown corp.
I think the fediverse could actually act as a very effective system of checks and balances. Each country could finance an instance that their citizens use while allowing the free flow of information from country to country that gives these platforms value in the first place. federation would mean the only truly effective censorship would be defederation which would at least be highly public.
But I agree, even in countries with effective governments it would be very hard to implement. But one can dream!
It just seems kind of weird to me the instinctive distrust of government for social media but complete acceptance of them for roads, physical mail, and other public services. Or maybe I’m just missing something. I mean, it’s not like the companies are showing amazing efficiency and results here.
This happened with our ambulance service - the volunteers dried up, and so we had to put it in our taxes. There was a donation push to get us to the next tax year, but then it’s something we all pay for to have an ambulance available.
propaganda. If I becomes A political dissonant they can’t really stop be using the roads. Physical mail is a crown corp where I am, they are funded by the government but the government can’t effect their day to day function, same with our state funded news org. It would be pretty bad if a rogue politician could give out an order to restrict the viability or content of the mail, like what happened with the CDC in America during the pandemic. In order for the same to happen to a crown corp you’d have to have a parliamentary vote, which would take months and involve a lot of public oversight. You’d need the same institutional checks on a new social media service too, lest they randomly or silently start censoring things.
The problem in the US is that the mail is kind of special, I just wish it wasn’t. If our government paid a company, it’d just be the same as us paying a company, and we’d still get ads, just Facebook or whoever would also get a huge government check. Not what I’d say a success or improvement.
Of course, that just says more about how bad the government is really. I just think charity (donations) is a horrible and unreliable way to run any sort of “needed service” (for a given definition of needed).
I was about to write something in my comment to the effect of, “but let’s not even talk about the government running it”. Could end up like PBS, could just as easily end up like USSR/North Korean/Chinese media. Imagine Reddit but, instead of spez, it’s Joseph McCarthy, or Donald Trump, with the power to identify and criminally sanction users.
I think in so far as people are in the jurisdiction of a given government, they generally can identify social media users already, and if they choose criminally sanction these people. In the US I’d argue the government would be far more bound by First Ammendment issues than any corporation. And you have far more redress against the government when they screw up than the current “you agree to binding arbitration” from companies. Which… honestly… says something crappy about our tort law and T&Cs allowed. My main point is that I don’t actually think social media or discussion boards are a public good. I think it should be federated like e-mail (and the fediverse) but otherwise you can choose the provider you like. This seems like the best option IMO.
Well, there’s having to put an unconstitutional demand violating the 1st/4th amendments on paper and sending it out to a company, and then there’s just being able to log in as the admin and look for the information directly. Anyway, when I say “public good”, I mean in a pretty loose sense, I prefer to see actual maintenance/management done by something like a non-profit rather than a gov agency.
Yea, except doesn’t Facebook etc often make it pretty easy - no demand, just pay us some fee and we’ll give you data? I mean, Google and Facebook are just selling the data. From what I recall hearing, the phone companies give away location data pretty similarly too. It’s not a constitutional issue if you “voluntarily” give data to a third party and they’re just willingly selling that - whether it’s to another company, individual or the government.
Fuck Reddit.
Is reddit owned and operated by a malicious entity? I used to be addicted to that platform, but now I can’t stand it.
If you count the US State Department and NATO affiliates as malicious (and you should), then yes
The largest owners are Advance Publications and Tencent. Advance also own Condé Nasty (Reddit even used to be under the Condé Nast banner). Weirdly they also own everyone’s favorite plagiarism detection service Turnitin.
how much does tencent actually own? I could swear they only bought company stocks and not direct controls over reddit.
I know of Tencent and the controversy about them… I don’t know anything about Advance though. Are they also controversial?
they are preparing for IPO, the most inherently malicious owner there is!
Are they really still just preparing?
yeah they aren’t IPO yet, I think a lot of stuff didn’t play nicely for them, with the ukraine war, the tech bubbles popping and the general global economic conditions things aren’t exactly favourable. I think also the backlash to 3rd party apps and their general shittiness has been hurting them a bit more than they have said.
Have been for years. Reddit is mismanaged, and the IPO is just an effort to get whatever they can before letting suckers hold the bag. They will never reach the valuation they had.
Always has been.
As with many things under capitalism, the ongoing mandate is that profits must go up, and must go up at a higher rate no matter what, or investors panic and the price drops steeply which can lead to a collapse. Reddit is just another ravenous profit-seeking vehicle of the same kind and is going into the same “line must go up” death spiral.
I wouldn’t say Reddit always has been owned by a malicious entity, Aaron Swartz was a cool guy. And if you’re telling me a man who freely distributed thousands of needlessly paywalled research papers is a some kind of arch capitalist, then there’s no helping you.
Honestly as a capitalist (I know, blasphemy) Aaron did the world a favor when he dropped those papers. Elsevier Wiley IEEE et al have a cartel and so many of them are NIH or DOD funded papers they should be public domain period.
The premise of our system depends on controls to avoid instilled entries extorting capital. Capitalism isn’t: it’s feudalism with extra steps
Before you congratulate yourself again for internet bravery, do you actually own capital? Do you own the means of production? If not, you’re not a capitalist even if you wave pompoms and otherwise do apologia for capitalism.
Well damn, ya got me. I own a car. That’s about it.
You’re not really a capitalist in a meaningful way. You might cheerlead for it, but that isn’t a means of production no matter what Uber/Lyft might tell you.
Swartz co-owned reddit for around 1 year, 2006-2007. His influence has overall probably been insignificant.
True true, I just specifically took issue with it always having been run by bastards. (I know it’s a meme template, but I just wanted to point to evidence that there is hope that not everything we use has always been yoked with pure greed. Call it a cope, IDC.)
If your basis for believing that is Reddit having one co-owner you liked for one year and that’s the best evidence you got, that isn’t a strong basis.
You can do sophistic tricks like exaggerating other people’s positions to try to make yours seem more tenable so you can mine for supposed exceptions, but the reality remains that capitalism requires increasingly unsustainable profit margins over time for the lifetime of each product and that consequently results in systemic enshittification of things that were previously decent and bearable. That is an inevitable ongoing process in this present system.
That
tone isn’t necessary.
One co-owner being around for one year doesn’t absolve the skullduggery of the other that is still here to the present day, as another poster already mentioned.
Swartz had good beliefs about freedom of information but politically was kind of a weirdo. What happened to him is an unlimited tragedy and outright criminal.
Halon’s Razor.
Is that anything like Hanlon’s Razor?
If you look at who Spez idolizes (Musk) and how he treated and talked about the protesters…. No. He or the board doesn’t get a pass for this. This is a move stemmed 100% from financial gain and malfeasance
The actual razor in that case; incompetent malice.
They think their platform is unique - incompetence.
They think this users are morons to be milked - malice.
Eventually the second part becomes true as the intelligent users realize the first is not l, leaving only morons who are easily milked.
From https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys
Do you think maybe it’ll be different with a federated and thus less centralized platform like Lemmy? Or do you think it will just delay this process? Cause right now lemmy and kbin seem to be pretty good.
As long as humans are involved and we are looking at a long enough timeframe, the answer is probably always yes.
I think that the FOSS Fediverse platforms are significantly resistant to enshittification.
That same article explores what enables enshittification and what precludes it:
Fediverse platforms:
Hmm yeah that’s what I was thinking… May kbin and lemmy live long and prosper 🖖
In fediverse, the data is already public. You’ll just need to run an instance, start federating and the data will flow directly into your instance. Whether someone will somehow find a way to extract profit from this system is remain to be seen.
I think it’s inevitable that someone will find a way to profit, even if it’s just scraping the data for training LLMs, or for something like those shitty sites that just duplicate GitHub issues.
The question of enshittification isn’t whether someone can find a way to profit, it’s whether someone can find a way to change the platform to increase their profit.
There’s no business platform here. So it will go a different path. Buy eventually the mods and instance admins who are volunteering their time and money to keep this going will wish to spend their time and money elsewhere. What happens after the first round of people who really work to make a free platform like this succeed go away? If there’s not a good deal of planning and acculturation for new people, there’s a high likelihood that a second generation of mods takes over who have different motives and reasons for running the place and the platform sees noticeable changes. Or nobody steps up at all and individual sections just end.
I honestly think the only way this could work is like email. So you either take the gmail like privacy destruction and ads, or you pay for a service. Back in the day it was bundled by the ISP, but now I think it’s way more likely to end up being some bundled ‘online service’ company that for a monthly fee provided a swath of federated content and services. But that it hasn’t sprung up implies that it’s not a workable model.
I mean the mods and admins won’t all go away at once, right? It’s probably gonna be gradual, so maybe the existing mods can keep any new/replacing mods in check? I dunno…
Plus, do you think maybe a donation model could be viable for platforms like this? It’s split over multiple instances so surely at least the smaller ones could be ran off of donation money?
Hard to say. My experience with people in general is that they’ll keep going even if things aren’t great, but they’ll get upset. And eventually things will come to a head and there’s a major change in a short period of time. This being a somewhat democratic platform, I would bet that we’ll have that sort of trajectory.
As for donations, it’s just very hard to get people to donate enough and often enough to support this kind of thing. Think of the regular donation appeals on public radio, or Wikipedia, or even The Guardian. They have a whole organization and system built around soliciting donations, and even then they are always operating on a shoestring. How often do you donate? How often do your friends and family?
This is going to be the most quoted literary work of the 21st century
Certainly by a greedy one. Greed and stupidity are often better explanations than outright malice, but… yeah, they’re a bunch of assholes, too.
I mean, I’m not denying they’re making wrong choices, and I’ve left Reddit myself, but given that they’re losing money I don’t understand how it’s considered ”greedy” to try and change that.
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Which is illegal in the EU and about to be illegal in Australia
¯\_(ツ)_/¯I am actually not even sure that is true. Some News sites like golem.de and heise.de are doing this for years. It is basically agree to this or leave the site.
This may or may not be illegal, depending on what the “this” is you’re agreeing to. As a simple example, if it is “you agree to functional cookies by continuing to use the site”, that’s fine. If it is “you agree to us scraping your computer and selling everything we find to China”, that is most definitely not legal, nor is refusing service if you don’t agree.
The EU just does so many things right.
America: “SoCiALisM”
Australia? How ? Isn’t Australia one of the five eyes country? Like more the data these companies collect its better for Australia.
https://sopuli.xyz/post/4017115
I’ll be very surprised if our govt does anything positive when it comes to digital rights. The current shower of arseholes in government supported the previous even bigger shower of arseholes to pass diabolical legislation like data retention and assistance and access bills.
Maybe I’ll “move to Europe” lol
fires up VPN
Or maybe I’ll just stop visiting reddit entirely?
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That would probably be for the best.
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No :(
I really should though.
I live in europe! On the internet!
Opt-out is still illegal in many cases… a lot must be opt-in based. Typically consent must be freely given.
OK but next year it will be illegal in the EU under thr DMA. It’s illegal regardless of opt-in or opt-out.
Countries where they’re legally required to.
Will they become liable if I don’t opt-out?
It depends if someone bothers to sue them or not. In the EU court decisions until now point that profiling for advertising should be opt-in not opt-out but companies keep trying to find loopholes or at least hoping to not attract too much attention with their defaults.
In EU no one individual needs to sue them. The what-ever-the-office-might-be-responsible at EU burecracy will just send them an nicely worded letter that says “play by the book or we’ll give you fine big enough to bankrupt you no matter how much money you think you have”. The fine is based on company revenue (or sales, I don’t remember what it spesifically was) and there’s no way you’ll weasel yourself out of that no matter how many american lawyers you can hire. The same folks forced Apple to adapt usb-c, so good luck Spez if you try to challenge that.
One small correction: There is no EU office responsible for GDPR enforcement, the EU member states are responsible for handling GDPR breaches within their jurisdiction (Art. 51 GDPR). As an individual you can also file a complaint against offenders (Art. 77 GDPR).
In the EU, they certainly aren’t allowed to “assume consent”.
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Aaand…reddit account, gone. Finally…
The speed at which they are destroying Reddit is just impressive. Spez saw Musk taking a shit on Twitter on the daily and became inspired.
As much as I want to hate Reddit’s management, this is not a move that will affect the average user too much. It’s really bad from a privacy standpoint, but a huge percentage of people don’t care too much about privacy (until it bites them). So this does (unfortunately) make ton of sense from a business standpoint.
Yeah, this is no different from how every other social media platform operates. Unfortunately it’s just the way these websites make money to stay “free for consumers”.
The only (distant) solution I can see will be the fediverse, paid for by UBI and decreasing server costs (i.e. green energy and tech breakthroughs)
What years of neoliberal propaganda does to a mfer.
Okay so what I really mean by UBI is the point that humans have successfully created an autonomous supply chain that keeps everyone fed and sheltered. AI has taken the majority of necessary jobs that humans do not wanna do, creating a surplus of resources that (in a utopia) even if 1% is distributed among the population, could be more than enough to keep fediverse software running on a server farm powered by green energy.
I don’t mean some fox news version of UBI that they think just means higher taxes and everyone becoming fat and lazy.
UBI is a compromise made by neoliberals to distract people from socialism. In practice, it challenges none of the contradictions of capitalism and will, given enough time, decay into neofeudalism. Does the idea of your life becoming an enclosure sound like a utopia?
Sure, why not? As the user base narrows, those who are left are the ones willing to put up with the most shit, so that is what they get.
Does it narrow? Let’s be realistic, Reddit isn’t the wasteland you want it to be.
Most of the subs I used to care about are more of a wasteland than I could’ve imagined. And come to think of it I’m starting to suspect that the demographics of social media participation in general are beginning to get narrower as well. After starting with a select few early adopters in the 1980s and then taking 30-some years to gradually broaden out to include basically “everyone” (in the anglosphere at least), people who are tired of the whole affair are perhaps starting to drop out or at least reduce their participation in significant numbers. I wonder how many of the people perceptive enough to leave reddit for one reason or another simply didn’t find anything worthy of replacing it.
Oh nooooo who could have seen this coming… anyway continues using Lemmy
Consider redacting your data and deleting your account
https://old.reddit.com/r/redditseppuku/comments/14frr4u/reddit_seppuku_how_to/
Didn’t these all stop working when they shutdown the public API?
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I thought it would too, but some replies indicate it still works!
Your mileage may vary.
Meh. I pondered this but leaving it helps users still using the platform.
Is Reddit still alive? I have been away for months 😂
have to go to their pages to see any ads. meh. be glad they haven’t installed ads at the router level.
Now’s a good time to advertise the fediverse, if you’re still on reddit. Just pick your favorite instance, and tell people to check it out and to click “login/register” if they like it.