Everything except making a store people wanted to use? Ethan Evans, who was previously Vice President of Prime Gaming at Amazon, has a short retrospective of trying to take on Steam.
Everything except making a store people wanted to use? Ethan Evans, who was previously Vice President of Prime Gaming at Amazon, has a short retrospective of trying to take on Steam.
‘Why didn’t they just try harder?’ is an increasingly worrying take. A company could copy Steam’s storefront and backend, verbatim, and it wouldn’t impact Steam’s monopoly on PC game sales. They’re entrenched and they’re well-liked. You can’t buy a reputation overnight.
Blaming the action without considering the environment is still a mistake. Epic tried everything, and people still scoff about UI, like that’s the billion-dollar difference. Nah: it’s attributing the difference in outcome to surface-level distinctions. And if Epic unfucked their apparently ugly storefront, these people would pick another excuse, because I guarantee you it wouldn’t change EGS’s irrelevance.
I hate the idea of more game stores because exclusives piss me off, and that’s the only viable tactic another store could use to get people to leave steam. When Netflix was all there was, it was great. We saw in real time how that shitshow ended. I had to bring out my old ship and chart new waters. I do not want to do this with my game library.
Steam was the first to offer 2 hour/14 day refunds, as well as refunds over broken games. They brought reviews to the storefront. Communities and discussion boards to communicate with devs and find like-minded players. Demos, 4 packs, easy access to servers and SDKs, easy update delivery and tracking for consumers…
It’s a store-front with a strong focus on consumer happiness. People are not going to give that up for EGS or Prime, which are run by psychopaths and not even remotely consumer-friendly. Tim Sweeny even said EGS is made for developers, with the implication it is not for consumers.
GOG is probably the closest competitor that stands any hope of success but they have steered clear of actually entering Steam’s territory, preferring to grab a market Steam neglects (retro PC gamers). Considering they have not developed the other systems Steam has I don’t think they want to compete and are content to coexist.
Explaining how they got the monopoly doesn’t change that they have a monopoly. Amazon or Epic could do all that - and they genuinely could, god knows they have the money - but the result would not be the same. They exist in the context of Steam already running shit. Adoption is a feature you cannot design. That’s why Valve had to force it on people via Half-Life 2.
Tim Sweeny even said EGS is made for developers, with the implication it is not for consumers.
What an absurd read. As if middlemen taking a third of revenue is pro-consumer.
That shift was a quarter-century ago. ‘It used to suck worse’ is a bad excuse even when it’s fresh. I don’t care what Steam would cost if they were a brick-and-mortar store; they have only ever done digital distribution, and they have done it for a while.
Their cut is so huge that they can afford to let devs sell keys elsewhere, knowing it makes no difference to their immense profit margin.
Largely because their monopoly is self-reinforcing, and the number of off-site sales is a rounding error.
Meanwhile:
What Epic means by “for developers” is, developers keep more of the money. Walk me through how that’s bad for you.
What Epic means by “for developers” is, developers keep more of the money. Walk me through how that’s bad for you.
Why should we accept an objectively worse storefront run by psychopaths because developers make more money under some circumstances? EGS is not supporting open-source software, Linux, VR. Their online backend is awful, with their chat and multiplayer still sucking years later. No remote play or remote play together. They don’t allow user tags or reviews. They are missing incredibly basic library sorting controls. No easily accessible news/update notes from developers. They have adopted virtually none of the pro-consumer moves such as identifying dead games, DRM, or third-party launchers before you buy. No custom profile pictures.
Also worth noting the featured/recommended list in the Steam store does a good job, even sending me the odd game with like 5 reviews that might actually suit my interests. I have on more than one occasion bought games I’d probably never see without this, and I’m in some communities with indie devs. I’ve demoed and tested games no one has ever heard of. If Steam can find me gems in the rough while I’m that low to the ground, they’re doing a good job.
If that feature alone isn’t worth Steam’s cut to you, frankly you deeply misunderstand the marketplace in general and just how damned hard it is to sell a game as a nobody. EGS and Prime will never support indie devs or niche titles this way, because it doesn’t make them money. Steam will, because it does. Think about that.
Why should we do a thing that’s completely unrelated to the question being asked?
Incorrect.
What Epic means by “for developers,” is… developers keep more of the money. Walk me through how that, specifically, is bad for you.
I am not interested in general attacks against Epic. I make no general defense of Epic. Fortnite’s business model should be illegal. But what you’re doing is bad argumentation. You’re reaching for ways to say ‘Epic bad’ as if that’s gotta be relevant. As if attacking Epic in general constitutes a defense of one specific thing Valve does. As if promoting Valve in general means this one specific thing can’t be wrong.
As for indie support - Valve doesn’t need to push big games on their store, because they have a monopoly. There is no sense telling people ‘if you’re gonna buy it on PC, buy it on Steam!,’ because of course you will. Indie games ‘don’t make Epic money’ because Alan fucking Wake barely makes them money. Their market share is garbage. Steam has the freedom and the incentive to push more game sales, of any kind, and there’s a lot more little games than big ones.
None of what Valve is doing would suddenly disappear if they took only one-quarter of gross revenue. Or a fifth. Or less. They’re shaving straight off the top for nearly the entire PC gaming market. Their war-chest is ridiculous. They have such a “petro curse” that they briefly forgot to make games. Yet they treat the studios that make them all of their money the same way Nintendo and Sony squeeze console developers.
Would criticizing this specific cut be easier, if we talked about Apple’s iron grip on the App Store? Because it’s the same damn policy. Feel free to talk shit about when Apple does it, if you insist on judging whole entities instead of what they do.
Would criticizing this specific cut be easier, if we talked about Apple’s iron grip on the App Store? Because it’s the same damn policy.
Except that it isn’t? Apple doesn’t let you circumvent their store, while Steam not only allows games to have their own monetization system, it allows off-site sales of the game on Steam. That is significantly more permissive, by a degree of magnitude that makes me wonder about your sincerity.
Their Luna product seems to be different to Steam. It’s a streaming platform like Playstation Now or the Google Stadia one that got shut down.
The other games that they’ve got on there primarily seem to be DRM-free GOG codes, mixed with some for the Epic store. Maybe they meant they were taking on Steam by boosting their competitors?
Every single Amazon product is a half-arsed mess off things that barely function. They’re basically just a delivery company that charges a percentage of the package value now.
Beat the competition, then enshittify yourself while your customer base sticks with you is the strategy used in all Amazon products. Amazon is the last storefront I would want to sell games in the scale of Steam.
Those are terms set by the games publishers, Steam and other platforms pass them on to the customer. The only platform big enough to strongarm publishers to not do that is Steam, but it would definitely make some publishers pull out of Steam completely.
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I didn’t even notice they tried to take on Steam.
‘Why didn’t they just try harder?’ is an increasingly worrying take. A company could copy Steam’s storefront and backend, verbatim, and it wouldn’t impact Steam’s monopoly on PC game sales. They’re entrenched and they’re well-liked. You can’t buy a reputation overnight.
Blaming the action without considering the environment is still a mistake. Epic tried everything, and people still scoff about UI, like that’s the billion-dollar difference. Nah: it’s attributing the difference in outcome to surface-level distinctions. And if Epic unfucked their apparently ugly storefront, these people would pick another excuse, because I guarantee you it wouldn’t change EGS’s irrelevance.
I hate the idea of more game stores because exclusives piss me off, and that’s the only viable tactic another store could use to get people to leave steam. When Netflix was all there was, it was great. We saw in real time how that shitshow ended. I had to bring out my old ship and chart new waters. I do not want to do this with my game library.
Steam was the first to offer 2 hour/14 day refunds, as well as refunds over broken games. They brought reviews to the storefront. Communities and discussion boards to communicate with devs and find like-minded players. Demos, 4 packs, easy access to servers and SDKs, easy update delivery and tracking for consumers…
It’s a store-front with a strong focus on consumer happiness. People are not going to give that up for EGS or Prime, which are run by psychopaths and not even remotely consumer-friendly. Tim Sweeny even said EGS is made for developers, with the implication it is not for consumers.
GOG is probably the closest competitor that stands any hope of success but they have steered clear of actually entering Steam’s territory, preferring to grab a market Steam neglects (retro PC gamers). Considering they have not developed the other systems Steam has I don’t think they want to compete and are content to coexist.
Neat.
Explaining how they got the monopoly doesn’t change that they have a monopoly. Amazon or Epic could do all that - and they genuinely could, god knows they have the money - but the result would not be the same. They exist in the context of Steam already running shit. Adoption is a feature you cannot design. That’s why Valve had to force it on people via Half-Life 2.
What an absurd read. As if middlemen taking a third of revenue is pro-consumer.
Considering this was a shift from retail where getting games to retail cost a great deal more, how exactly is that bad?
Also you know nothing stops gamedevs from selling their keys elsewhere and getting all of the revenue right?
That shift was a quarter-century ago. ‘It used to suck worse’ is a bad excuse even when it’s fresh. I don’t care what Steam would cost if they were a brick-and-mortar store; they have only ever done digital distribution, and they have done it for a while.
Their cut is so huge that they can afford to let devs sell keys elsewhere, knowing it makes no difference to their immense profit margin.
Largely because their monopoly is self-reinforcing, and the number of off-site sales is a rounding error.
Meanwhile:
What Epic means by “for developers” is, developers keep more of the money. Walk me through how that’s bad for you.
Why should we accept an objectively worse storefront run by psychopaths because developers make more money under some circumstances? EGS is not supporting open-source software, Linux, VR. Their online backend is awful, with their chat and multiplayer still sucking years later. No remote play or remote play together. They don’t allow user tags or reviews. They are missing incredibly basic library sorting controls. No easily accessible news/update notes from developers. They have adopted virtually none of the pro-consumer moves such as identifying dead games, DRM, or third-party launchers before you buy. No custom profile pictures.
Also worth noting the featured/recommended list in the Steam store does a good job, even sending me the odd game with like 5 reviews that might actually suit my interests. I have on more than one occasion bought games I’d probably never see without this, and I’m in some communities with indie devs. I’ve demoed and tested games no one has ever heard of. If Steam can find me gems in the rough while I’m that low to the ground, they’re doing a good job.
If that feature alone isn’t worth Steam’s cut to you, frankly you deeply misunderstand the marketplace in general and just how damned hard it is to sell a game as a nobody. EGS and Prime will never support indie devs or niche titles this way, because it doesn’t make them money. Steam will, because it does. Think about that.
Incorrect.
What Epic means by “for developers,” is… developers keep more of the money. Walk me through how that, specifically, is bad for you.
I am not interested in general attacks against Epic. I make no general defense of Epic. Fortnite’s business model should be illegal. But what you’re doing is bad argumentation. You’re reaching for ways to say ‘Epic bad’ as if that’s gotta be relevant. As if attacking Epic in general constitutes a defense of one specific thing Valve does. As if promoting Valve in general means this one specific thing can’t be wrong.
As for indie support - Valve doesn’t need to push big games on their store, because they have a monopoly. There is no sense telling people ‘if you’re gonna buy it on PC, buy it on Steam!,’ because of course you will. Indie games ‘don’t make Epic money’ because Alan fucking Wake barely makes them money. Their market share is garbage. Steam has the freedom and the incentive to push more game sales, of any kind, and there’s a lot more little games than big ones.
None of what Valve is doing would suddenly disappear if they took only one-quarter of gross revenue. Or a fifth. Or less. They’re shaving straight off the top for nearly the entire PC gaming market. Their war-chest is ridiculous. They have such a “petro curse” that they briefly forgot to make games. Yet they treat the studios that make them all of their money the same way Nintendo and Sony squeeze console developers.
Would criticizing this specific cut be easier, if we talked about Apple’s iron grip on the App Store? Because it’s the same damn policy. Feel free to talk shit about when Apple does it, if you insist on judging whole entities instead of what they do.
Except that it isn’t? Apple doesn’t let you circumvent their store, while Steam not only allows games to have their own monetization system, it allows off-site sales of the game on Steam. That is significantly more permissive, by a degree of magnitude that makes me wonder about your sincerity.
No they didn’t.
I never saw a simple program with a clean store front and no bullshit.
Ethan Evans desperately trying to keep his job as VP of Prime Gaming:
Their Luna product seems to be different to Steam. It’s a streaming platform like Playstation Now or the Google Stadia one that got shut down.
The other games that they’ve got on there primarily seem to be DRM-free GOG codes, mixed with some for the Epic store. Maybe they meant they were taking on Steam by boosting their competitors?
I don’t think they tried releasing a compelling product.
Cloud streaming is not a replacement for steam.
Every single Amazon product is a half-arsed mess off things that barely function. They’re basically just a delivery company that charges a percentage of the package value now.
This is why you never really trust anything from a lemmy comment kids.
They also charge storage fees to keep your products on their shelf in the warehouse.
Something like 70% of their net income comes from AWS that pretty much runs a huge portion of the internet.
I mean, they didn’t try making a good game store.
I think their biggest hurdle was that they are owned by Jeff Bezos
They barely tried at all
Steam? Set your sights lower. Maybe try to beat GOG or the EA launcher.
They’d have to do something really crazy to have me pick Amazon over GOG!
It’s basically like G-Force now for a selection of GOG and epic games
Tried everything except building a nice service that doesn’t get in the way and that works, without enshittification and monetisation everywhere.
Beat the competition, then enshittify yourself while your customer base sticks with you is the strategy used in all Amazon products. Amazon is the last storefront I would want to sell games in the scale of Steam.
Everything, including:
giving a shit about the customer and having them permanently own their own games, even DRM-free like GOG?
Not forcing online connectivity to access the library?
Not shoving ads and spyware into the rest of the Amazon platform?
Appealing ethically by paying all employees a living wage?
Prioritizing innovation in expanding native Linux compatibility?
🤔
Steam doesn’t give customers permanent ownership of their games. Its extremely rare, but game licenses do occasionally get revoked on Steam.
Which means that’s an area where they could’ve tried to set themselves apart from Steam.
Those are terms set by the games publishers, Steam and other platforms pass them on to the customer. The only platform big enough to strongarm publishers to not do that is Steam, but it would definitely make some publishers pull out of Steam completely.
I just installed all the free games I got from Amazon before deleting my account and they’re all DRM free…
Most of the games that Amazon give away are GOG codes lol
GOG codes are the absolute best.
Well wipe my ass backwards and call me biscuit; I have been informed today.
Yeah I found that out too and have been cashing in
Fuck off Amazon
Apologies, I should have added the sarcasm tag. /gen
Case in point is that Amazon will try everything for profit except not be cunts