Does this specify the kinds of AI? Are none of these devs using code completion on their IDEs? Or refactoring tools? Because the bulk of them use AI these says.
If something uses a lot of if else statements to do stuff like become a “COM” player in a game, it is called an Expert System.
That is what is essentially in game “AI” used to be. That was not an LLM.
Stuff like clazy and clang-tidy are neither ML nor LLM.
They don’t rely on curve fitting or mindless grouping of data-points.
Parameters in them are decided, based on the programming language specification and tokenisation is done directly using the features of the language. How the tokens are used, is also determined by hard logic, rather than fuzzy logic and that is why, the resultant options you get in the completion list, end up being valid syntax for said language.
Now if you are using Cursor for code completion, of course that is AI.
It is not programmed using features of the language, but iterated until it produces output that matches what would match the features of the language.
It is like putting a billion monkeys in front of a typewriter and then selecting one that make something Shakespeare-ish, then killing off all the others. Then cloning the selected one and rinse and repeat.
And that is why it takes a stupendously disproportionate amount of energy, time and money to train something that gives an output that could otherwise be easily done better using a simple bash script.
I am not talking about what it does, I am talking about what it is.
And all tools do tend to replace human labor. For example, tractors replaced many farmhands.
The thing we face nowadays, and this is by no means limited to things like AI, is that less jobs are created by new tools than old destroyed (in my earlier simile, a tractor needs mechanics and such).
The definition of something is entirely disconnected from its usage (mainly).
And just because everyone calls LLMs now AI, there are plenty of scientific literature and things that have been called AI before. As of now, as it boils down all of these are algorithms.
The thing with machine learning is just that it is an algorithm that fine tunes itself (which is often blackbox-ish btw). And strictly speaking LLMs, commonly refered to as AI, are a subclass of ML with new technology.
I make and did not make any statement of the values of that technology or my stance on it
I’m saying that code completion does not constitute AI and certainly isn’t LLMs.
I then provided an example of why that isn’t the case.
You decided to respond to this by pointing out that some LLM may be involved in some code completion. Although you didn’t provide an example, so who knows if that’s actually true, it seems sort of weird to use in LLM for code completion as it’s completely unnecessary and entirely inefficient, so I kind of doubt it.
I just want to point it out for a minute, because it’s sort of feels like you don’t know this, code completion is basically autocomplete for programmers. It’s doing basic string matching, so that if you type fnc it also completes to function(), hardly the stuff of AI
Those models generally have much smaller context windows, so the energy concern isn’t quite as extreme.
You could also reasonably make a claim that the model is legally in the clear as far as licensing, if the training data was entirely open source (non-attribution, non-share-alike, and commercial-allowed) licensed code.
That said, I think the general sentiment is less “what the technology does” and more “who it does it to”. Code completion, for the most part, isn’t deskilling labor, or turning experts into accountability sinks.
Like, I don’t think the Luddites would’ve had a problem with an artisan using a knitting frame in their own home. They were too busy fighting against factories locking children inside for 18-hour shifts, getting maimed by the machines or dying trapped in a fire.
Even yesteryear’s code completion systems (that didn’t rely on LLMs) are technically speaking, AI systems.
While the term “AI” became the next “crypto” or “Blockchain”, in reality we’ve been using various AI products for the better part of the past 30 years.
And honestly lightweight neural nets can make for some interesting enemy behavior as well. I’ve seen a couple games using that and wouldn’t be surprised if it caught on in the future.
Personally speaking I don’t care at all about dev tools, as they have always been used. Vibe coding does bother me though - if you don’t know HOW to code, you probably shouldn’t be doing it.
The real issue though is using AI generated assets. If you have a game that uses human made art, story, and music, no one is going to complain about you using AI. Even if you somehow managed to get there via vibe coding.
I actually got doxing/threats of physical violence here on lemmy for pushing back on idiots claiming being against AI was like being racist, these people are insufferable and no matter what they think their intentions are, the consequences of their ideology is a sweeping under the rug of actual injustice, systematic prejudice and violence.
“Normies” are idiots. They’re the same people denying the efficacy of vaccines or the veracity of the moon landing. What they do should NOT be used to validate the correctness of something.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
Rules
1. Submissions have to be related to games
Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.
This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil
No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.
We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.
3. No excessive self-promotion
Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.
This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.
4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts
This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you’re submitting before posting to see if it’s already been posted.
We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.
5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW
Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.
No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.
6. No linking to piracy
Don’t share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.
We don’t want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.
Does this specify the kinds of AI? Are none of these devs using code completion on their IDEs? Or refactoring tools? Because the bulk of them use AI these says.
I don’t consider
clangtools to be AI.They parse the code logically and don’t do blind pattern matching and curve fitting.
The rules they use are properly defined in code.
If that was AI, then all compilers made with LLVM would be AI.
that’s not what they mean when they say “ai” though.
the definitions changed since the “ai” hype.
I’m sure everyone has always explained this to you given the number of down votes, but algorithms aren’t equal to AI.
Ever since the evolution of AI people seem to have lost the ability to recall things prior to 2019.
I mean doesn’t it heavily depend what you refer to as AI?
ML algorithms, come very close to LLMs and have been back in the day refered to as AI. They are also used in code completion.
Also both of these rely - in principle - on algorithms. One just has an algorithm with weights defined by data input.
If something uses a lot of
if elsestatements to do stuff like become a “COM” player in a game, it is called an Expert System.That is what is essentially in game “AI” used to be. That was not an LLM.
Stuff like
clazyandclang-tidyare neither ML nor LLM.They don’t rely on curve fitting or mindless grouping of data-points.
Parameters in them are decided, based on the programming language specification and tokenisation is done directly using the features of the language. How the tokens are used, is also determined by hard logic, rather than fuzzy logic and that is why, the resultant options you get in the completion list, end up being valid syntax for said language.
Now if you are using Cursor for code completion, of course that is AI.
It is not programmed using features of the language, but iterated until it produces output that matches what would match the features of the language.
It is like putting a billion monkeys in front of a typewriter and then selecting one that make something Shakespeare-ish, then killing off all the others. Then cloning the selected one and rinse and repeat.
And that is why it takes a stupendously disproportionate amount of energy, time and money to train something that gives an output that could otherwise be easily done better using a simple
bashscript.You seriously misunderstand what the acronyms you’re using refer to. I’d suggest some reading before commenting, next time.
No because AI replaces a human role.
Code completion does not replace a human role, that’s like saying that spell check is AI.
I am not talking about what it does, I am talking about what it is.
And all tools do tend to replace human labor. For example, tractors replaced many farmhands.
The thing we face nowadays, and this is by no means limited to things like AI, is that less jobs are created by new tools than old destroyed (in my earlier simile, a tractor needs mechanics and such).
The definition of something is entirely disconnected from its usage (mainly).
And just because everyone calls LLMs now AI, there are plenty of scientific literature and things that have been called AI before. As of now, as it boils down all of these are algorithms.
The thing with machine learning is just that it is an algorithm that fine tunes itself (which is often blackbox-ish btw). And strictly speaking LLMs, commonly refered to as AI, are a subclass of ML with new technology.
I make and did not make any statement of the values of that technology or my stance on it
But these tools are not mere algorithms or ML products, they are LLM backed
Emmet has been around since 2015. So it was definitely not LLM backed.
My friend, nobody says all of them are LLM backed, but some are
I’m saying that code completion does not constitute AI and certainly isn’t LLMs.
I then provided an example of why that isn’t the case.
You decided to respond to this by pointing out that some LLM may be involved in some code completion. Although you didn’t provide an example, so who knows if that’s actually true, it seems sort of weird to use in LLM for code completion as it’s completely unnecessary and entirely inefficient, so I kind of doubt it.
I just want to point it out for a minute, because it’s sort of feels like you don’t know this, code completion is basically autocomplete for programmers. It’s doing basic string matching, so that if you type
fncit also completes tofunction(), hardly the stuff of AIThe seal looks like this:
Code completion is probably a gray area.
Those models generally have much smaller context windows, so the energy concern isn’t quite as extreme.
You could also reasonably make a claim that the model is legally in the clear as far as licensing, if the training data was entirely open source (non-attribution, non-share-alike, and commercial-allowed) licensed code.
That said, I think the general sentiment is less “what the technology does” and more “who it does it to”. Code completion, for the most part, isn’t deskilling labor, or turning experts into accountability sinks.
Like, I don’t think the Luddites would’ve had a problem with an artisan using a knitting frame in their own home. They were too busy fighting against factories locking children inside for 18-hour shifts, getting maimed by the machines or dying trapped in a fire.
Even yesteryear’s code completion systems (that didn’t rely on LLMs) are technically speaking, AI systems.
While the term “AI” became the next “crypto” or “Blockchain”, in reality we’ve been using various AI products for the better part of the past 30 years.
They were technically Expert Systems.
AI was was the Marketing Term even then.
Now they are LLMs and AI is still the marketing term.
We used to call the code that determined NPC behaviour AI.
It wasn’t AI as we know it now but it was intended to give vaguely realistic behaviour (such as taking a sensible route from A to B).
Used to?
Lol gramps here thinks bots are AI skullemoji skullemoji bro
And honestly lightweight neural nets can make for some interesting enemy behavior as well. I’ve seen a couple games using that and wouldn’t be surprised if it caught on in the future.
“AI” has become synonymous with “Generative AI”
Jesus fuck that’s some goal post moving.
Here is a frog, please help me split its hairs
Personally speaking I don’t care at all about dev tools, as they have always been used. Vibe coding does bother me though - if you don’t know HOW to code, you probably shouldn’t be doing it.
The real issue though is using AI generated assets. If you have a game that uses human made art, story, and music, no one is going to complain about you using AI. Even if you somehow managed to get there via vibe coding.
removed by mod
When everyone else is selling poison, selling something actually edible is a pretty good move.
AI free art (aka theft free art) is like cruelty free cotton. A lot of people do, and should, care.
You tout a 80 dollar price, entirely ignoring that indie games are often sub-40. Nice ragebait.
Lmao what is this comment?
Are you really conflating the idea that people want art made by people with racism and hard-right politics?
Well Hitler was a painter, checkmate liberals.
Yeah he also had a single testicle, what’s your point?
Edit: I’m a dipshit, that’s a different user. Probably just shitposting XP
You’re not a dipshit. I AM a disphit
I actually got doxing/threats of physical violence here on lemmy for pushing back on idiots claiming being against AI was like being racist, these people are insufferable and no matter what they think their intentions are, the consequences of their ideology is a sweeping under the rug of actual injustice, systematic prejudice and violence.
Imagine thinking that disliking AI is racist, or a class war wedge issue.
No one wants AI slop.
Y’all don’t realize how much of a bubble you’re in on the anti - AI front, the vast majority of normies are catching on and use genAI
“Normies” are idiots. They’re the same people denying the efficacy of vaccines or the veracity of the moon landing. What they do should NOT be used to validate the correctness of something.
Ah yes hand waive away everything you don’t like as idiots who deny vaccines and the moon landing.
I am talking about normal normies, not fringe conspiracy normies.
Are you being serious with this reply? Holy shit.