Battledield now throwing an error because Valorant is already sitting in kernel memory. Time to buy your EA Battlefield PC but don’t forget your Valorant PC
They do this to prevent cheaters, and it is effective. Some people who have no problems running any other executable that can do just as much damage believe this load on boot style is too invasive.
I wouldn’t mind this feature dying so I could play on Linux though.
Tell me how any other app uploading your entire documents directory is okay then. “Into the kernel” is largely fear mongering. Other, less trustworthy apps can do plenty of damage, and you don’t seem to care about those.
If you really want to be secure, you can’t do gaming on the same machine as your security sensitive stuff. It’s not limited to these anti-cheats.
code running in kernel space is hugely privileged… it can open up enormous security vulnerabilities because when you’re in the kernel you can bypass a LOT of security checks and restrictions… windows code is generally pretty well tested, so is unlikely to have particularly bad bugs like RCEs etc… but these kernel mode apps aren’t nearly as rigorously tested - things like this is what lead to the crowdstrike outage
things running in the kernel can also cause a lot more damage than user space apps, because the kernel doesn’t do a lot of the error checking and validation that stops things like kernel panics
and also, security isn’t about 100% guarantees… we each have our own risk profile: regular joe gamer doesn’t need to be as security conscious as someone working for the NSA… their risks are different, because their exploitation value is different… most people only need to protect themselves from generalised attacks because they’re not going to be targeted
kernel level apps, however, blast a massive hole in the walls that keep us secure and potentially open attack vectors for generalised attacks… it’s just not worth that risk
You’re running closed source software that has permissions to read your keyboard input to other applications (other than apps running as admin), they can access your files, and and they can communicate over the Internet.
You’re inherently trusting these publishers if you’re gaming on Windows. Who is the publisher of Darkest Dungeon or Deep Rock Galactic or Lethal Company?
And anti-cheat needs a lot of access (e.g. read app memory) and sees a lot of churn to evolve with cheat engines. More churn means less thorough testing, which means higher likelihood of an exploit.
And it’s such a weird argument to make that just because some other app uploads your entire documents directory (which to be clear is also not okay) you shouldn’t care about being forced into an potential attack vector that can take over your entire computer. Do you also leave your home server unsecured because Google is tracking you through your phone?
This is windows, So Valorant is running its anticheat stopping Battlefields anti-cheat from starting up. Meaning you will have to pick one game as they all seem to start from boot though other sources have said the games have to be running.
In Linux you could prob just run a pass-through in a couple of VMs. But Linux itself doesn’t work with most of these anti-cheats so by default no one running Linux is exposed to this sort of thing.
I’m not an expert, but it sounds like if you finish a session of valorant, the anti cheat never unloads and continues to monitor memory and files.
Easy Anticheat though, according so some sources, only runs during game play.
Riots Anticheat has a bad history though. But both essentially are black boxes that send details both hash and samples back to their owners for them to approve what’s on it computer. Opened a medical record? It’s probably been hashed and sent back.
Opened your employers accounting files when working from home? details you probably sent riot a copy.
Both can be updated. There’s no guarantees that riot won’t do something nasty against a portion of high value targets. They know you from your payment details. They can identify, update the module and get anything they like, they have root.
Yes, obviously, and you don’t typically have trouble with display drivers either nowadays, I suppose we were both jesting.
The right way to do it would probably be either to spin a dedicated partition, or to add a boot entry that sets up a dedicated environment for the game (I haven’t really thought about it but it’s probably doable). In both cases it’s a bit silly, when the whole anti-cheat thing is apparently mostly useless anyway.
ive heard valorant have to be uninstalled, and ive alao heard that you cant run both games at the same time. which one is it? and why should care with a pc with disabled tpm2
Soon you will only be able to play on certified monitors with anticheat tampering built in. They 100% guarunteed will not be backdoored or phone home, pinky promise, it is certain.
You could also just not play games that think they are allowed to access the kernel at all. Seems safer, more affordable, and basically without downside. They aren’t even that good of games.
Yes because I truly love my shooters becoming more and more homogenized. Counter strike with hero abilities!?!? Oh my GOD let me spend 100’s of dollars on skins yes PLEASE Riot. Battlefield but it’s more like CoD? YES daddy DICE PLEASE spit in my mouth again, I love the taste.
You liking other type of games doesn’t mean all other games are shit. Most games are pretty basic. I mean csgo is generic as hell and Valorant improves the genre with abilities, good map design, proper character identities, and you say they make homogenized shit?
You not liking AAA games doesn’t mean they’re shit. There’s nothing wrong with making games that stick to a genre but do it perfectly
There isn’t a single character ability in Valorant that does not have an analog from League of Legends. The biggest hype surrounding BF6 is the fact that they’re bringing back a mechanic from BC2, and also that it’s smaller and more like CoD (I know, I played the beta). Yes, it’s homogenized garbage. Also no, they absolutely don’t do it perfectly, there are better tactical shooters against both titles. It is quite literally a video game fast food equivalent.
I’ve played both, granted I stopped playing valorant after 2 games because it’s fucking boring (for reference I stomped both games with +30 kills and a handful of deaths, dicking around with every gun) so I easily could be wrong about my assertion. You would be hard pressed to find a single character ability that doesn’t already exist in CS or LoL.
Edit: That isn’t even approaching the Overwatch comparisons. Like, you can argue that the games are fun — that’s entirely subjective. But seriously, Valorant isn’t homogenous? How many hero shooters exist? The fucking sniper is called the Operator.
With Linux, that’s impossible. However, I will say that you won’t need to worry about these privacy invading rootkits disguising themselves as anti-cheats (Ricochet, EA’s Ring 0 malware, EAC, Battleye, etc.).
I feel I would rather just opt out of playing these games. It ain’t worth it.
I feel like they should just host the entire game and stream it to players if they want to eliminate cheating, but that’s probably the most anti-SKG way to publish a game possible. Oh well.
Actually makes it easier to write aimbots and triggerbots, since you’ll have the video feed and can respond with the right inputs. Skips the step where you’ve got to film the monitor on the machine that’s ‘playing’ the game, which is protected by the HDCP between the PC and the screen.
To be honest I haven’t thought about this much because playing online games with strangers is not something I enjoy in the first place. I’m sure others have good ideas, though.
Seeking a technical solution to a non-technical problem. Rather than having one set of company-hosted servers that they then struggle to police, just let everyone host their own, and they can be responsible for banning anyone that doesn’t follow the community rules.
Yeah I wish we could go back to a model like that, the way PC gaming used to be. The sticking point would be battle pass progression, as mush as I hate it and an FPS is pretty much doa without it, although Hell Let Loose allows for rank progression while playing on clan-rented servers so it should work in theory.
The types of cheats that anti cheat in kernel space are trying to detect don’t view the video feed as such. They hook the process directly to read the memory, and the chest developer has reverse engineered the game binary to find out what variables correspond to things like opposing players, then using that information they draw stuff like wall hacks on the screen.
But yeah I guess an fps developer could move to a GeForce now type of model to eliminate cheats like that, but then no one would play that fps because of the input lag issues.
between the toxic communities, over monetization, and this kind of crap, I have been done with online competitive games for years. Anti-Cheating is going to always be a cat and mouse game, with the cheaters winning all the time. Anti-Cheat will always be reacting to whatever the new method of cheating is and humans are very innovative when they want to be.
My son wanted to play the Battlefield open beta over the weekend. It legitimately took me 4 hours to get their shitty kernel anti-cheat shit working. I can’t imagine the average non-technical person being able to do that just to play a game.
I came home pre early access and saw that I could play if I just watched some stream on twitch for 30 minutes. So I did. Got the code and it did not work.
Started up the game and it was locked until early access/ next day.
Went to bed and tried again on early access. Now the game won’t even start, claiming it needs secure boot to be on.
I have secure boot on.
I wish i could be zen like you. I hate dying in any game I JUST WANT TO KILL. Tryna rack up high scores, when I get killed it’s a big bummer, and dying by a cheater just makes it a WAY BIGGER bummer because it wasn’t even a fair fight.
These anti-cheats don’t even work. Anyone can go out and buy a hardware DMA card with an FPGA on it, which is basically a modern day Action Replay. It has full access to RAM without touching the OS and cheaters like to use them to get around anti-cheat.
yeah, i haven’t done tech support in a hot minute either and had to look up some shit too. All that makes sense, although I don’t recall it existing in the early 90s when I actually thought I knew what i was talking about.
You just put me on a rabbit hole of looking at what FPGA means. Are these cheaters buying their cards already made? Learning such magic to cheat in games seems very weird.
Is “Mister FPGA” an FPGA because it can reprogram its “internal logic” to be as the gaming chips from the consoles?
How come people know so much? Dang here I thought being a computer wizard was one thing and you shattered my expectations
An FPGA is essentially a reprogrammable computer chip, or integrated circuit (IC), that can behave as another computer chip. It is widely used in the development of new ICs.
The MiSTer FPGA project uses an off-the-shelf Altera DE10-nano development board, which has a combo FPGA + ARM SoC on it. The OS, USB controller input, and some other stuff runs on the ARM core, and the FPGA is reprogrammed upon launching a core to behave as closely as possible to the original hardware that it’s emulating.
FPGAs can either be pre-programmed or programmed on-the-fly. In consumer hardware, FPGAs and CPLDs (essentially weak FPGAs) are used when you need an IC produced in small scale, or when you need to be able to change the functionality of the IC with updates.
People know so much because they take the time to learn, and it does take a lot of time and patience.
Nothing that takes significant amounts of time to accomplish is easy. Many people go to school specifically to learn about FPGA development (Computer Engineering students specifically).
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As someone who will likely need to move to Linux after windows 10 goes dark can anybody ELI5 or maybe a little older, TIA
These games won’t run on Linux.
They do this to prevent cheaters, and it is effective. Some people who have no problems running any other executable that can do just as much damage believe this load on boot style is too invasive.
I wouldn’t mind this feature dying so I could play on Linux though.
load on boot INTO THE KERNEL is the main issue… this isn’t “just another executable”
Tell me how any other app uploading your entire documents directory is okay then. “Into the kernel” is largely fear mongering. Other, less trustworthy apps can do plenty of damage, and you don’t seem to care about those.
If you really want to be secure, you can’t do gaming on the same machine as your security sensitive stuff. It’s not limited to these anti-cheats.
code running in kernel space is hugely privileged… it can open up enormous security vulnerabilities because when you’re in the kernel you can bypass a LOT of security checks and restrictions… windows code is generally pretty well tested, so is unlikely to have particularly bad bugs like RCEs etc… but these kernel mode apps aren’t nearly as rigorously tested - things like this is what lead to the crowdstrike outage
things running in the kernel can also cause a lot more damage than user space apps, because the kernel doesn’t do a lot of the error checking and validation that stops things like kernel panics
If you really want to be secure, you can’t do gaming on the same machine as your security sensitive stuff. It’s not limited to these anti-cheats.
that is wildly inaccurate. do you have a source?
and also, security isn’t about 100% guarantees… we each have our own risk profile: regular joe gamer doesn’t need to be as security conscious as someone working for the NSA… their risks are different, because their exploitation value is different… most people only need to protect themselves from generalised attacks because they’re not going to be targeted
kernel level apps, however, blast a massive hole in the walls that keep us secure and potentially open attack vectors for generalised attacks… it’s just not worth that risk
You’re running closed source software that has permissions to read your keyboard input to other applications (other than apps running as admin), they can access your files, and and they can communicate over the Internet.
You’re inherently trusting these publishers if you’re gaming on Windows. Who is the publisher of Darkest Dungeon or Deep Rock Galactic or Lethal Company?
And anti-cheat needs a lot of access (e.g. read app memory) and sees a lot of churn to evolve with cheat engines. More churn means less thorough testing, which means higher likelihood of an exploit.
“needs” might be debatable… i’m just don’t think the trade-off is worth it (and thus don’t play games that require kernel-level access)
It needs it to accomplish its goals. Whether its goals are worth accomplishing is a separate discussion entirely.
Until it actually gets exploited.
And it’s such a weird argument to make that just because some other app uploads your entire documents directory (which to be clear is also not okay) you shouldn’t care about being forced into an potential attack vector that can take over your entire computer. Do you also leave your home server unsecured because Google is tracking you through your phone?
This is windows, So Valorant is running its anticheat stopping Battlefields anti-cheat from starting up. Meaning you will have to pick one game as they all seem to start from boot though other sources have said the games have to be running.
In Linux you could prob just run a pass-through in a couple of VMs. But Linux itself doesn’t work with most of these anti-cheats so by default no one running Linux is exposed to this sort of thing.
I’m not an expert, but it sounds like if you finish a session of valorant, the anti cheat never unloads and continues to monitor memory and files.
Easy Anticheat though, according so some sources, only runs during game play.
Riots Anticheat has a bad history though. But both essentially are black boxes that send details both hash and samples back to their owners for them to approve what’s on it computer. Opened a medical record? It’s probably been hashed and sent back.
Opened your employers accounting files when working from home? details you probably sent riot a copy.
Both can be updated. There’s no guarantees that riot won’t do something nasty against a portion of high value targets. They know you from your payment details. They can identify, update the module and get anything they like, they have root.
Anticheat has a history of being a tool for hackers. https://www.vice.com/en/article/hackers-are-using-anti-cheat-in-genshin-impact-to-ransom-victims/
There’s no upside for the user. Mostly because they don’t work anyway.
So instead of having trouble with drivers for your one GPU, you can have it with two. Awesome.
deleted by creator
Yes, obviously, and you don’t typically have trouble with display drivers either nowadays, I suppose we were both jesting.
The right way to do it would probably be either to spin a dedicated partition, or to add a boot entry that sets up a dedicated environment for the game (I haven’t really thought about it but it’s probably doable). In both cases it’s a bit silly, when the whole anti-cheat thing is apparently mostly useless anyway.
ive heard valorant have to be uninstalled, and ive alao heard that you cant run both games at the same time. which one is it? and why should care with a pc with disabled tpm2
Soon you will only be able to play on certified monitors with anticheat tampering built in. They 100% guarunteed will not be backdoored or phone home, pinky promise, it is certain.
You could also just not play games that think they are allowed to access the kernel at all. Seems safer, more affordable, and basically without downside. They aren’t even that good of games.
Hard copium there
Yes because I truly love my shooters becoming more and more homogenized. Counter strike with hero abilities!?!? Oh my GOD let me spend 100’s of dollars on skins yes PLEASE Riot. Battlefield but it’s more like CoD? YES daddy DICE PLEASE spit in my mouth again, I love the taste.
You liking other type of games doesn’t mean all other games are shit. Most games are pretty basic. I mean csgo is generic as hell and Valorant improves the genre with abilities, good map design, proper character identities, and you say they make homogenized shit?
You not liking AAA games doesn’t mean they’re shit. There’s nothing wrong with making games that stick to a genre but do it perfectly
There isn’t a single character ability in Valorant that does not have an analog from League of Legends. The biggest hype surrounding BF6 is the fact that they’re bringing back a mechanic from BC2, and also that it’s smaller and more like CoD (I know, I played the beta). Yes, it’s homogenized garbage. Also no, they absolutely don’t do it perfectly, there are better tactical shooters against both titles. It is quite literally a video game fast food equivalent.
Never played LoL but I’m pretty sure that’s false
I’ve played both, granted I stopped playing valorant after 2 games because it’s fucking boring (for reference I stomped both games with +30 kills and a handful of deaths, dicking around with every gun) so I easily could be wrong about my assertion. You would be hard pressed to find a single character ability that doesn’t already exist in CS or LoL.
Edit: That isn’t even approaching the Overwatch comparisons. Like, you can argue that the games are fun — that’s entirely subjective. But seriously, Valorant isn’t homogenous? How many hero shooters exist? The fucking sniper is called the Operator.
They made a great game from this genre, and I don’t believe I’ve ever played a cs-like game with agents
I think the point is there are a lot of excellent shooters to choose from.
Sure, but from what I’ve seen, this battlefield isn’t bad
But yea we know EA
With Linux, that’s impossible. However, I will say that you won’t need to worry about these privacy invading rootkits disguising themselves as anti-cheats (Ricochet, EA’s Ring 0 malware, EAC, Battleye, etc.).
Just compile your kernel with the anti cheat flags and telemetry enabled from source.
I feel I would rather just opt out of playing these games. It ain’t worth it.
I feel like they should just host the entire game and stream it to players if they want to eliminate cheating, but that’s probably the most anti-SKG way to publish a game possible. Oh well.
Actually makes it easier to write aimbots and triggerbots, since you’ll have the video feed and can respond with the right inputs. Skips the step where you’ve got to film the monitor on the machine that’s ‘playing’ the game, which is protected by the HDCP between the PC and the screen.
Good point. Guess it’s hopeless?
To be honest I haven’t thought about this much because playing online games with strangers is not something I enjoy in the first place. I’m sure others have good ideas, though.
Seeking a technical solution to a non-technical problem. Rather than having one set of company-hosted servers that they then struggle to police, just let everyone host their own, and they can be responsible for banning anyone that doesn’t follow the community rules.
Yeah I wish we could go back to a model like that, the way PC gaming used to be. The sticking point would be battle pass progression, as mush as I hate it and an FPS is pretty much doa without it, although Hell Let Loose allows for rank progression while playing on clan-rented servers so it should work in theory.
But then that lets people socialize using the game without the company being able to harvest their data.
The types of cheats that anti cheat in kernel space are trying to detect don’t view the video feed as such. They hook the process directly to read the memory, and the chest developer has reverse engineered the game binary to find out what variables correspond to things like opposing players, then using that information they draw stuff like wall hacks on the screen.
But yeah I guess an fps developer could move to a GeForce now type of model to eliminate cheats like that, but then no one would play that fps because of the input lag issues.
between the toxic communities, over monetization, and this kind of crap, I have been done with online competitive games for years. Anti-Cheating is going to always be a cat and mouse game, with the cheaters winning all the time. Anti-Cheat will always be reacting to whatever the new method of cheating is and humans are very innovative when they want to be.
My son wanted to play the Battlefield open beta over the weekend. It legitimately took me 4 hours to get their shitty kernel anti-cheat shit working. I can’t imagine the average non-technical person being able to do that just to play a game.
I came home pre early access and saw that I could play if I just watched some stream on twitch for 30 minutes. So I did. Got the code and it did not work. Started up the game and it was locked until early access/ next day.
Went to bed and tried again on early access. Now the game won’t even start, claiming it needs secure boot to be on. I have secure boot on.
deleted by creator
I wish i could be zen like you. I hate dying in any game I JUST WANT TO KILL. Tryna rack up high scores, when I get killed it’s a big bummer, and dying by a cheater just makes it a WAY BIGGER bummer because it wasn’t even a fair fight.
If I just want to kill that is what coop/singleplayer is for
True, but it feels less satisfying against bots but still true
War…war never changes.
Ramp it up. The sooner we pull out of the kernel the sooner I dump windows
These anti-cheats don’t even work. Anyone can go out and buy a hardware DMA card with an FPGA on it, which is basically a modern day Action Replay. It has full access to RAM without touching the OS and cheaters like to use them to get around anti-cheat.
You can also still get everything working in software.
furiously scribbles notes
Very interesting…
yeah, i haven’t done tech support in a hot minute either and had to look up some shit too. All that makes sense, although I don’t recall it existing in the early 90s when I actually thought I knew what i was talking about.
I remember when FPGAs were prohibitively expensive.
You just put me on a rabbit hole of looking at what FPGA means. Are these cheaters buying their cards already made? Learning such magic to cheat in games seems very weird.
Is “Mister FPGA” an FPGA because it can reprogram its “internal logic” to be as the gaming chips from the consoles?
How come people know so much? Dang here I thought being a computer wizard was one thing and you shattered my expectations
An FPGA is essentially a reprogrammable computer chip, or integrated circuit (IC), that can behave as another computer chip. It is widely used in the development of new ICs.
The MiSTer FPGA project uses an off-the-shelf Altera DE10-nano development board, which has a combo FPGA + ARM SoC on it. The OS, USB controller input, and some other stuff runs on the ARM core, and the FPGA is reprogrammed upon launching a core to behave as closely as possible to the original hardware that it’s emulating.
FPGAs can either be pre-programmed or programmed on-the-fly. In consumer hardware, FPGAs and CPLDs (essentially weak FPGAs) are used when you need an IC produced in small scale, or when you need to be able to change the functionality of the IC with updates.
People know so much because they take the time to learn, and it does take a lot of time and patience.
Thank you for the reply.
Off topic but I don’t think is that easy. We only have so much time… I just learned about this stuff. If I was 80 it would be game over.
Nothing that takes significant amounts of time to accomplish is easy. Many people go to school specifically to learn about FPGA development (Computer Engineering students specifically).
Upvote for the desktop background.
Oooohhhh Elden Ring!
it’s
It s
*its settings.
Arasaka vs Militech humble beginnings
EA wishes they were even close to that competent.