The maker of the video game Genshin Impact has agreed to pay $20 million and to block children under 16 from making in-game purchases without parental consent to settle Federal Trade Commission all
I’m confused. I’ve played Genshin, and I don’t remember any sort of loot box system in the game. There’s a gacha system which seems to be what the article keeps referring to, but that’s very different from what I think the average user considers a “loot box”.
As an old person who plays Genshin Impact, the “character banners” are 100% loot boxes. They have a pity system which guarantees a five star character after 100 “wishes” but even then it may not be the character you wanted. You might have to “wish” up to 200 times to get the five star character you are “wishing” for on the banner. Since you are not buying the character out right and gambling to get them it’s a loot box.
For anyone who doesn’t play “character banners” are a limited run (3 weeks) of a five star character that you can only get from the banner. “Wishes” are like rolls for the character. Each wish you lose gives you either a weapon (3 star/practically useless in game) and every 10 wishes gurantees a four star weapon or four star character.
As a person that have played Genshin since the launch. Those are all loot boxes. Just because it’s limited or has a pity system, that doesn’t change the fact. It just limits the results or gives you a guarantee
If you are taking a chance at all to get something from a list of items, as opposed to selecting a specific item to buy, IT IS A LOOT BOX.
The specifics of limits or pity systems, or guarantees after X amount do not matter. The slot machines in Vegas have a fixed and regulated chance to payout as well, it’s still gambling.
Hard pity is at 90 wishes and soft pity starts at 75 (which means that the chance to get a 5 star increases significantly with each additional wish past that point). Getting to hard pity almost never happens.
There isn’t a meaningful difference; gachas are just a subset of lootboxes, and anybody claiming otherwise is a player lying to themselves or is a game publisher defending themselves from these predatory practices.
I feel like the difference is the loot “box”, itself. Granted, I’ve not played any loot box games since Team Fortress 2, but in that game the box was an actual inventory item you could store and open whenever you wanted, and those items would always be from the same pool.
With Genshin, you’re basically just pulling from a singular, infinite loot box that rotates its reward pool. So you can’t, as a player, decide to open a Year 1 item when it’s not in the current rotation.
It’s a small difference, but I feel like that’s why we have separate terminology for “gacha” and “loot box” games.
My apologies if I’m getting this wrong, as I don’t play Gacha games, but isn’t that worse?
As in, if the players know that a certain reward they’re trying to get will be rotated out soon, won’t that drive up the FOMO even more?
My apologies if I’m getting this wrong, as I don’t play Gacha games, but isn’t that worse?
It depends. I’m not sure how current loot box games handle it, but with most gacha games, there are determined odds for the prizes, so they have a “pity” system. So after a certain amount of pulls, you’re always guaranteed to get the top reward. RNG will make it so that you’ll typically pull all the way to nearly the end of that pity timer before you get the top reward, but you’ll eventually get it.
I’m not sure if traditional loot “boxes” have such a protection in place. I dunno if it’s any better or worse since they’re both pretty manipulative tactics, but it’s different.
not all gacha games have a pity system, and a pity system is not part of the definition of a gacha game. For example, Puzzle and Dragons, one of the first major gacha games on mobile, whose gachapon system is literally modeled off a gachapon machine, does not have a pity system. It’s not different. Having a pity system is not a requirement for being a gacha. For example, Fate Grand Order for the longest time, did not have a pity system. You would not suddenly call it a gacha game after it got a pity system, as it was already one before hand.
a gachapon, the system gacha is named after, its litterally a form of a lootbox. you know, those machines found in places where you place tokens to vend out a random goodie?
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I’m confused. I’ve played Genshin, and I don’t remember any sort of loot box system in the game. There’s a gacha system which seems to be what the article keeps referring to, but that’s very different from what I think the average user considers a “loot box”.
In what world is a “gacha system” not a lootbox
Gacha
Gacha is the prime example to use for loot boxes.
Gacha is a type of loot box.
You aren’t purchasing a specific item when you spend money. If there’s any sort of chance involved with that purchase it’s a loot box.
As an old person who plays Genshin Impact, the “character banners” are 100% loot boxes. They have a pity system which guarantees a five star character after 100 “wishes” but even then it may not be the character you wanted. You might have to “wish” up to 200 times to get the five star character you are “wishing” for on the banner. Since you are not buying the character out right and gambling to get them it’s a loot box.
For anyone who doesn’t play “character banners” are a limited run (3 weeks) of a five star character that you can only get from the banner. “Wishes” are like rolls for the character. Each wish you lose gives you either a weapon (3 star/practically useless in game) and every 10 wishes gurantees a four star weapon or four star character.
As a person that have played Genshin since the launch. Those are all loot boxes. Just because it’s limited or has a pity system, that doesn’t change the fact. It just limits the results or gives you a guarantee
If you are taking a chance at all to get something from a list of items, as opposed to selecting a specific item to buy, IT IS A LOOT BOX.
The specifics of limits or pity systems, or guarantees after X amount do not matter. The slot machines in Vegas have a fixed and regulated chance to payout as well, it’s still gambling.
Hard pity is at 90 wishes and soft pity starts at 75 (which means that the chance to get a 5 star increases significantly with each additional wish past that point). Getting to hard pity almost never happens.
The presentation is different, but the core problem that the FTC is targeting is the same: spending real money to gamble on artificial digital goods.
You’re gonna need to explain what you think the difference is, because most people think they’re synonymous
There isn’t a meaningful difference; gachas are just a subset of lootboxes, and anybody claiming otherwise is a player lying to themselves or is a game publisher defending themselves from these predatory practices.
Yup, it doesn’t make a difference if you pay for:
I feel like the difference is the loot “box”, itself. Granted, I’ve not played any loot box games since Team Fortress 2, but in that game the box was an actual inventory item you could store and open whenever you wanted, and those items would always be from the same pool.
With Genshin, you’re basically just pulling from a singular, infinite loot box that rotates its reward pool. So you can’t, as a player, decide to open a Year 1 item when it’s not in the current rotation.
It’s a small difference, but I feel like that’s why we have separate terminology for “gacha” and “loot box” games.
That’s still just gambling in another costume 😭
My apologies if I’m getting this wrong, as I don’t play Gacha games, but isn’t that worse?
As in, if the players know that a certain reward they’re trying to get will be rotated out soon, won’t that drive up the FOMO even more?
It depends. I’m not sure how current loot box games handle it, but with most gacha games, there are determined odds for the prizes, so they have a “pity” system. So after a certain amount of pulls, you’re always guaranteed to get the top reward. RNG will make it so that you’ll typically pull all the way to nearly the end of that pity timer before you get the top reward, but you’ll eventually get it.
I’m not sure if traditional loot “boxes” have such a protection in place. I dunno if it’s any better or worse since they’re both pretty manipulative tactics, but it’s different.
not all gacha games have a pity system, and a pity system is not part of the definition of a gacha game. For example, Puzzle and Dragons, one of the first major gacha games on mobile, whose gachapon system is literally modeled off a gachapon machine, does not have a pity system. It’s not different. Having a pity system is not a requirement for being a gacha. For example, Fate Grand Order for the longest time, did not have a pity system. You would not suddenly call it a gacha game after it got a pity system, as it was already one before hand.
a gachapon, the system gacha is named after, its litterally a form of a lootbox. you know, those machines found in places where you place tokens to vend out a random goodie?