Quite often, an indie game throws together some common gameplay, like roguelike shooter patterns, with little to explain it. eg, “You’re here to explore for treasure!” Other times, even AAA games go this route, assuming most players won’t care about the base story premise.
But there seems to be a significant contrast to well-developed worlds; like seeing the progressive cruelty of the Nazis in Wolfenstein before you start stabbing them, or seeing the Gommage in Expedition 33 before heading out to fight nevrons. Even more eldritch action-oriented games like DOOM benefited from establishing a “mood” of the Slayer being angry at demons and anyone who ignored warnings of them using just a few quick cutscenes.
This can be a bit of divergence from a game being “story-focused” or building up detailed lore. Some such games are often bad at motivation because the “story” is so confusing to players, most would just admit “I’m just going wherever bosses are to advance the story.” Some very dialogue-heavy games don’t necessarily captivate players on this level, since motivation can often be very simple. It goes back to the age-old strategy of arcade Donkey Kong; having 10 seconds at the beginning of the game where DK captures a princess who calls for help. The early version of the game likely didn’t even have that, and the designer felt motivation was missing. (That decision spawned its own issue, the Damsel in Distress trope, but that’s another topic)
As more conceptual ideas, and especially more perpetual live-service games, become more popular, I see this element of gaming going missing at all ranks of game development - which is a shame, because I think when written creatively, there are ways to set up player motivation through relatively few voice lines and short cutscenes; something going beyond “You are an amnesiac! This voice is telling you where to go. Don’t die to The Corporation!!”
To drive discussion: What are some games you bounced off of, that you think may have been because they were missing motivation? What games found you putting up with a mediocre gameplay experience because you were invested in the given story turnout?
I find a gameplay goal more important than a story goal. Sandbox games like Luanti are tricky for me, because I need to decide what to do with no real reason to do anything. But if a roguelike tells me “There’s an artifact at the bottom of this dungeon. Good luck!”, that’s already more story motivation than I need, because the gameplay goal is straightforward.
I also find lots of story motivations terrible to begin with, though, when it’s basically “You’re the hero! Go save the world!” and then the gameplay is just genocide. I don’t care, if we’re violencing pixels, but specifically the attempt to justify this violence, is almost always distasteful.
I can’t stand open worlds with no clear goals, the shine quickly wears off the world itself and I’m just left wondering what I would even want to do it. Mile wide, inch deep content deserts just switch me off immediately.
I play games to escape the purposelessness of life, not simulate it.
I love open worlds, but I need some sort of goal / completionist aspect going on to actually have fun. Because yes, just wandering around quickly wears thin, unless a game map is exceptionally beautiful or has good environmental storytelling.
A goal for me might be a % map completion, collecting certain items, finding steps of a side quest - I guess just something to be able to say, ok I’m done, I explored/completed it all.
I played a thousand or two hours of Skyrim… never completed the main quest… but it was always there as an objective that I was maybe heading towards. Elder Scrolls have usually struck a good balance between “here is a big world to wander around” and “here are some key objectives and narratives to drive you forwards”.
It’s really subjective. SkyUi greatly improves the UI. Legacy of the Dragonborm is an amazing DLC-sized mod. There’s combat mods, monster mods, armor, etc.
You can look for Wabbajack, which downloads and installs a collection of mods
I play a lot of games that either have no story or can easily be enjoyed while ignoring the story. The motivation for me to go out of my way off the main quest path is better/more fun stuff.
I think they need at least that, if there is no real motivator in the story line.
I like being able to make my character the way I want and an go where I want so Im a bit more motivated by open world than the story itself. I like the world to have a story. Being able to build and play my character in the way I want is the biggest thing for me in a game though. Like elden ring is the type of game I would (think I would) hate but because I could make my character like I wanted and use the playstyle I wanted I was able to get through the game.
It depends on the game. Some games may build up a world before putting you in, others lets you discover over time. Take Final Fantasy 7 in example (I’m actually talking about the original Playstation release in 1997). Game is heavily story and character based. You start a mission without knowing characters or the story. You are right in the action and details are explained along the way or afterwards. I really really like this. Having a slow start is not wrong either, its just different. Fallout 3 on the other hand has a much slower start. One start the game as baby even, learn the world you are in and so on. And both styles are appealing, as long as not all games have one style only. If not executed well, both styles can be boring or uninteresting.
For games that are not story heavy I don’t care anyway. Donkey Kong Country on the Super Nintendo in example. Some crazy dude stole bananas and now the gorillas are angry. Game starts. This is a game I’m interested into gameplay and challenges, rather than anything else (ok ok graphics and music too). The gameplay is the motivation for me, not a meaningless (or meaningful) story, for this type of game. I do not need any reason other than having fun to play and do the challenges.
Most of the comments so far are in the negative for external motivation but I would like to say that if it’s done well, I appreciate some backstory and some flavor text (like you mentioned with DOOM). Sometimes it’s nice to make your character’s background and therefore motivations up but other times it’s cool to enjoy a more crafted experience. I still want to be able to play the game though and not be locked into doing pushups or whatever happened with that new dragon’s age. Otherwise I might as well just watch an actual movie or even a gameplay movie lol.
I generally won’t know unless I’m playing something and having fun. It could be any reason. I like games of all genres but small details could change whether I’m having fun with that particular game.
Same. It depends on how I feel at the time and the genre I’m playing.
Sometimes I’m playing because I enjoy the story. Sometimes I’m playing for a challenge. Sometimes I’m playing to be a menace to society and just be a goober. Sometimes I want to create something.
Yet, any of these could be hit or miss depending on small details. Off hand I can’t recall anything specific though.
Decent gameplay, bad story, that I left because of the story?
Neptunia Rebirth 3. Plutia got on my nerves one too many times. I couldn’t stand it anymore.
Rail of Mobius. The MC actually revolted against my attempts to save scum the story decisions. Then the MC gets himself killed because he’s a dumbass, and I made the other character not save him from his stupidity. This apparently was the wrong decision. I stopped playing because I couldn’t stand the characters anymore.
I quit the Kiseki series in the middle of Cold Steel 4. Each entry (except Trails in the Sky 3) requires you to get points for useful gear by doing the right things in the story. I decided that I was done with using a guide to figure out what to do next, and quit.
Noel the Mortal Fate. Revenge stories already bore me, and it felt like the story was going nowhere. The gameplay was fine, but not enough to keep me around.
Forsaker DingDing & Blade. The story feels like AI generated nonsense.
Siren’s Call Escape Velocity. I spoiled myself on the ending. It makes everything else feel like a complete waste of time, so I stopped early.
Chick’n Mushroom Soup. Villain Sue.
Blood Midnight Blossom. Villain Sue.
キミが消えてしまう前に. I hate the main character. A simp, a pushover, and a moron. I couldn’t stand him anymore.
Hundred Line Last Defense Academy. I finished all the quality routes, and only crap was left, which included the “canon” endings. Not gonna bother.
彷徨之街 The Street of Adrift. Purple prose, and the early story is dogshit.
My dude. I’m with you on Neptunia 3. The plot does not move until Plutia does some S&M stuff to force it. Everything else takes a backseat to Plutia. I hated it.
100 Line goes through a prologue, and then some routes of your choice when the prologue is done.
The Prologue is worth playing. When that’s done, you get to choose what routes to play next.
Thing is, some routes are pretty good (Death Game, Box of Calamity, Cult of Takumi, Slasher) while others are very very shit (Eva’s Route, Box of Blessings, SF, Conspiracy).
The game is also somewhat resistant to modding despite being the perfect game for it. I’ve tried it myself, and getting the game to cooperate with mods, much less multiple mods together, is very frustrating.
So I advise: Play it past the prologue, but when you reach routes that bore you to shit, switch to another route. If you run out of the good routes, stop playing.
I feel like if 3 of 6 paths suck, by that point it may be better to just watch the best content in someone’s playthrough. Well, thanks for the warning; it’s been on my wishlist but I only find myself becoming pickier with age, haha.
Story based motivators mean almost nothing to me, esspecially when told through non-gameplay means. Having an “intro” cutscene is almost akin to a text crawl/card in a movie - technically it works, and it can be an efficient way to give extra context, but its also likely to disrupt pacing or disorient - basically makes me want to watch less, rather than more. In the same way, I can’t think of any games where story played a significant part in motivation to continue. If I want to keep playing, its because the game is good, not because it told me I should.
Edit: Maybe to help clairify, good plot can be a motivator, but the character’s motivation is not my motivation. Whats important is that the plot is good, not that the protagonist’s goal is just.
It depends greatly on the game. For a shooter I probably just want to jump in for a little while and blast things. A lengthy intro will just be annoying.
Even forced tutorials are annoying like that. I like when games give me the option to skip, and then to come crawling back to the tutorial when I clearly should have done it anyway.
I think games that let you pick your own style and pace work best for me. Open world games, for example, where I can go discover the story for myself, but it’s just there in the background otherwise. I’m ok with some hints though, like overhearing NPC conversations or finding random notes.
Even something we simple as Portal works. You’re solving puzzles, but you can discover the story behind it by looking for more clues. Half life, too, is really light on telling you what’s going on until you play through and discover more. But you could also just play it through without paying any attention to the story part.
I don’t think I’ve bounced off a game because it was lacking a story, but I’ve definitely given up on games because there was too much fuss to get going. I have little tolerance for long unskippable cut scenes and dialogue as well.
I have quit games I just couldn’t figure out or enjoy without taking a long time to learn how it works before even getting started. I like to learn things gradually.
Don’t get me wrong: a good story that is revealed over time to be does add a lot to the game. I just want to feel like I’m paying a game, not watching a movie or reading a book
Now that you mention it - I don’t believe I’ve ever stopped playing a game for lack of story. I’m ok with a game just spawning me in and having me figure out what I’m supposed to do if it plays well.
On the other hand, I can’t think of any game I powered through mediocre gameplay to see what the plot was.
I made a similar argument about this a few days ago and got lambasted. I personally think payoff is important. As an adult I have a lot less time for games. To just “do” something when there are so many things to do and even other games to play has to mean something. Not just a “stat” boost. I don’t need another fetch quest. I don’t need a pointless collectible. If I’m doing something I want to be rewarded for it. A bit of lore actually acted out or even better yet new gameplay I didn’t have before.
I’m not saying an arcade type game can’t be fun or worth time. But that gameplay loop in itself has to feel rewarding to me. And in a growing list of games feeling the game the gameplay loop itself holds less value. As 10 of the last 15 releases on Steam have that same damn loop.
This is clearly a subjective thing but I’ll say personally I need to feel some intrinsic value for my time. And lately I haven’t been feeling reward. As a result I am playing less and less games these days …
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
Rules
1. Submissions have to be related to games
Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.
This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil
No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.
We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.
3. No excessive self-promotion
Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.
This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.
4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts
This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you’re submitting before posting to see if it’s already been posted.
We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.
5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW
Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.
No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.
6. No linking to piracy
Don’t share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.
We don’t want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.
I find a gameplay goal more important than a story goal. Sandbox games like Luanti are tricky for me, because I need to decide what to do with no real reason to do anything. But if a roguelike tells me “There’s an artifact at the bottom of this dungeon. Good luck!”, that’s already more story motivation than I need, because the gameplay goal is straightforward.
I also find lots of story motivations terrible to begin with, though, when it’s basically “You’re the hero! Go save the world!” and then the gameplay is just genocide. I don’t care, if we’re violencing pixels, but specifically the attempt to justify this violence, is almost always distasteful.
Yay a Luanti mention!
I can’t stand open worlds with no clear goals, the shine quickly wears off the world itself and I’m just left wondering what I would even want to do it. Mile wide, inch deep content deserts just switch me off immediately.
I play games to escape the purposelessness of life, not simulate it.
I love open worlds, but I need some sort of goal / completionist aspect going on to actually have fun. Because yes, just wandering around quickly wears thin, unless a game map is exceptionally beautiful or has good environmental storytelling.
A goal for me might be a % map completion, collecting certain items, finding steps of a side quest - I guess just something to be able to say, ok I’m done, I explored/completed it all.
I played a thousand or two hours of Skyrim… never completed the main quest… but it was always there as an objective that I was maybe heading towards. Elder Scrolls have usually struck a good balance between “here is a big world to wander around” and “here are some key objectives and narratives to drive you forwards”.
It felt like a boring, endless fetch quest with combat. People tell me that my issue was playing it without mods.
Your issue is that you weren’t playing it with mods.
lol. Which do you recommend?
It’s really subjective. SkyUi greatly improves the UI. Legacy of the Dragonborm is an amazing DLC-sized mod. There’s combat mods, monster mods, armor, etc.
You can look for Wabbajack, which downloads and installs a collection of mods
I play a lot of games that either have no story or can easily be enjoyed while ignoring the story. The motivation for me to go out of my way off the main quest path is better/more fun stuff.
I think they need at least that, if there is no real motivator in the story line.
I like being able to make my character the way I want and an go where I want so Im a bit more motivated by open world than the story itself. I like the world to have a story. Being able to build and play my character in the way I want is the biggest thing for me in a game though. Like elden ring is the type of game I would (think I would) hate but because I could make my character like I wanted and use the playstyle I wanted I was able to get through the game.
It depends on the game. Some games may build up a world before putting you in, others lets you discover over time. Take Final Fantasy 7 in example (I’m actually talking about the original Playstation release in 1997). Game is heavily story and character based. You start a mission without knowing characters or the story. You are right in the action and details are explained along the way or afterwards. I really really like this. Having a slow start is not wrong either, its just different. Fallout 3 on the other hand has a much slower start. One start the game as baby even, learn the world you are in and so on. And both styles are appealing, as long as not all games have one style only. If not executed well, both styles can be boring or uninteresting.
For games that are not story heavy I don’t care anyway. Donkey Kong Country on the Super Nintendo in example. Some crazy dude stole bananas and now the gorillas are angry. Game starts. This is a game I’m interested into gameplay and challenges, rather than anything else (ok ok graphics and music too). The gameplay is the motivation for me, not a meaningless (or meaningful) story, for this type of game. I do not need any reason other than having fun to play and do the challenges.
Most of the comments so far are in the negative for external motivation but I would like to say that if it’s done well, I appreciate some backstory and some flavor text (like you mentioned with DOOM). Sometimes it’s nice to make your character’s background and therefore motivations up but other times it’s cool to enjoy a more crafted experience. I still want to be able to play the game though and not be locked into doing pushups or whatever happened with that new dragon’s age. Otherwise I might as well just watch an actual movie or even a gameplay movie lol.
My motivation for games is to have fun.
If I’m having fun the game doesn’t need to motivate me because I’m already being motivated to have fun
This whole post is about going the next step in that line of thinking: What feels fun to you?
I generally won’t know unless I’m playing something and having fun. It could be any reason. I like games of all genres but small details could change whether I’m having fun with that particular game.
Same. It depends on how I feel at the time and the genre I’m playing.
Sometimes I’m playing because I enjoy the story. Sometimes I’m playing for a challenge. Sometimes I’m playing to be a menace to society and just be a goober. Sometimes I want to create something.
Yet, any of these could be hit or miss depending on small details. Off hand I can’t recall anything specific though.
Decent gameplay, bad story, that I left because of the story?
My dude. I’m with you on Neptunia 3. The plot does not move until Plutia does some S&M stuff to force it. Everything else takes a backseat to Plutia. I hated it.
Dang, so you don’t recommend 100 Line? It’s so highly rated. Hmm…
100 Line goes through a prologue, and then some routes of your choice when the prologue is done.
The Prologue is worth playing. When that’s done, you get to choose what routes to play next.
Thing is, some routes are pretty good (Death Game, Box of Calamity, Cult of Takumi, Slasher) while others are very very shit (Eva’s Route, Box of Blessings, SF, Conspiracy).
The game is also somewhat resistant to modding despite being the perfect game for it. I’ve tried it myself, and getting the game to cooperate with mods, much less multiple mods together, is very frustrating.
So I advise: Play it past the prologue, but when you reach routes that bore you to shit, switch to another route. If you run out of the good routes, stop playing.
I feel like if 3 of 6 paths suck, by that point it may be better to just watch the best content in someone’s playthrough. Well, thanks for the warning; it’s been on my wishlist but I only find myself becoming pickier with age, haha.
Not even a little bit.
As proof: I love the first Borderlands game.
Story based motivators mean almost nothing to me, esspecially when told through non-gameplay means. Having an “intro” cutscene is almost akin to a text crawl/card in a movie - technically it works, and it can be an efficient way to give extra context, but its also likely to disrupt pacing or disorient - basically makes me want to watch less, rather than more. In the same way, I can’t think of any games where story played a significant part in motivation to continue. If I want to keep playing, its because the game is good, not because it told me I should.
Edit: Maybe to help clairify, good plot can be a motivator, but the character’s motivation is not my motivation. Whats important is that the plot is good, not that the protagonist’s goal is just.
It depends greatly on the game. For a shooter I probably just want to jump in for a little while and blast things. A lengthy intro will just be annoying.
Even forced tutorials are annoying like that. I like when games give me the option to skip, and then to come crawling back to the tutorial when I clearly should have done it anyway.
I think games that let you pick your own style and pace work best for me. Open world games, for example, where I can go discover the story for myself, but it’s just there in the background otherwise. I’m ok with some hints though, like overhearing NPC conversations or finding random notes.
Even something we simple as Portal works. You’re solving puzzles, but you can discover the story behind it by looking for more clues. Half life, too, is really light on telling you what’s going on until you play through and discover more. But you could also just play it through without paying any attention to the story part.
I don’t think I’ve bounced off a game because it was lacking a story, but I’ve definitely given up on games because there was too much fuss to get going. I have little tolerance for long unskippable cut scenes and dialogue as well.
I have quit games I just couldn’t figure out or enjoy without taking a long time to learn how it works before even getting started. I like to learn things gradually.
Don’t get me wrong: a good story that is revealed over time to be does add a lot to the game. I just want to feel like I’m paying a game, not watching a movie or reading a book
Now that you mention it - I don’t believe I’ve ever stopped playing a game for lack of story. I’m ok with a game just spawning me in and having me figure out what I’m supposed to do if it plays well.
On the other hand, I can’t think of any game I powered through mediocre gameplay to see what the plot was.
I made a similar argument about this a few days ago and got lambasted. I personally think payoff is important. As an adult I have a lot less time for games. To just “do” something when there are so many things to do and even other games to play has to mean something. Not just a “stat” boost. I don’t need another fetch quest. I don’t need a pointless collectible. If I’m doing something I want to be rewarded for it. A bit of lore actually acted out or even better yet new gameplay I didn’t have before.
I’m not saying an arcade type game can’t be fun or worth time. But that gameplay loop in itself has to feel rewarding to me. And in a growing list of games feeling the game the gameplay loop itself holds less value. As 10 of the last 15 releases on Steam have that same damn loop.
This is clearly a subjective thing but I’ll say personally I need to feel some intrinsic value for my time. And lately I haven’t been feeling reward. As a result I am playing less and less games these days …
I’m someone who can’t manage more than about 20 hours in a single player game normally. Only games I sink time into are online.
The only single player game I’ve actually put more than this into is civ5, balatro, mini motorways.
Story games just bore the fuck out of me and it feels like I’m in a vacuum. If I wanted to watch a cutscene I’d watch a movie.
If I’m not playing something fun in a few minutes, I’m probably going to bounce off. I’m not here to watch a movie.
I don’t want to watch a long intro. I don’t want a lot of cut scenes and exposition up front.
The dark souls games have a little cut scene that you can skip, and then you’re off to playing. Perfect.