If you ever feel dumb, remember that people actually argue for Denuvo to be put in more games, and if you have a problem with it, you’re the problem, not the spyware.
This is what pushes me to piracy. I had no intention of pirating Crimson Desert, because I think it looks good and I’d support the devs by buying it. But I’m not interested in buying a license to play a handicapped version of the game. I’ll just play something else until they remove Denuvo.
Also, fuck the shills across gaming sites celebrating the addition of Denuvo because “pirates are just mad they can’t get it free on day one”. People who pay get fucked over more than pirates do. We pay more for a worse version of the game than pirates eventually get for free.
So you blame the developer and not the pirates for this?
This is the equivalent of trumpers crying about “illegal” immigrants and not the people that hire them.
Go ahead and boycott the game over this. I’m sure the amount of money they’re making from all the would-be pirates now having to actually pay for a change will more than make up for it.
My first Final Fantasy game was a rom a friend all but insisted I play. Before that the idea of random encounters and turned-based combat were a huge turnoff to me, and I had no interest in buying it. Since then I’ve purchased a copy of nearly every game in the series, some more than once for different platforms. Same story for the Trails games and some others.
That’s a lot of money those companies would never had received if it weren’t for just a little bit of piracy to make a fan out of someone.
Typically the people I know who pirate because they want to play without paying are doing so because they don’t have the money. As mentioned countless times before, they would not have bought the game otherwise because they probably couldn’t afford it in the first place. Denuvo may (or may not, I don’t actually know) block pirates, but it doesn’t ensure the publisher is making any more money. It does however ensure that regular paying folks get a worse product. I think people have the right to be upset about that. They could just use a different DRM.
Okay just ignore the personal anecdote on how a little bit of piracy actually helped create a long-time paying customer of multiple franchises, I guess.
(gollumnotlistening.gif)
But furthermore…
When Denuvo survives for at least 12 weeks, piracy leads to nearly zero total revenue loss on average. The results suggest that Denuvo does protect legitimate sales to an estimated mean of 15 percent of total revenue and median of 20 percent, but there is little justification to employ Denuvo long-term (i.e. for more than three months), especially given that Denuvo can have negative technical side effects and is generally disliked by users.
The study itself, linked in the article, states that Denuvo is effective at protecting sales for only about 12 weeks, then it does more long-term harm than good.
If that’s the case, I wonder how much Denuvo suppresses sales of a game over its lifetime once those 12 weeks are over?
Dude… the only people complaining about denuvo are people that would have pirated the game. There are tons of articles that illustrate the performance hit is barely noticeable. There’s even benchmarks that have been done to prove the negligible loss.
It’s a non-issue. It’s just would-be pirates on a crusade because they can’t play a game for free. This is a stale argument.
It’s completely logical to me. A thing can be two things. Maybe look up something called “nuance”.
Laughing about people crying because of an anti-piracy feature instead of being pissed at the pirates- then going so far as to say “well, they weren’t going to buy anyway!” as an argument against using it is fucking hilarious to me.
This doesn’t mean I have nothing to say about it. Nor does it make my stance in bad faith. I just think your argument is ridiculous, and therefore I laughed at it.
Show me the data that proves piracy actually causes a tangible loss for the developer for DRM to actually be needed.
(hint: it doesn’t exist. It instead shows most pirates weren’t going to buy the thing anyway, so they don’t make any more money by adding garbage like Denuvo)
The only way to do this accurately would require the same game to release twice on two planet Earths. It gets harder when pirates are not the types to offer up their purchase data honestly and willingly, for somewhat expectable reasons.
BUT, the closest we got is an old version of FIFA (we’ll assume it was FIFA. This is an old article, and unfortunately I’m only recalling details from memory until I can locate a very old bookmark) Those games sell each year, generally just to update the roster. You’ll see many college dorms where people just stack up each year’s edition they bought because that trend doesn’t change. In the year that the publisher added Denuvo encryption, the PC sales jumped significantly. The only reasonable explanation most analysts could come to is that many PC gamers found they couldn’t pirate the game, and bought it.
It’s not perfect data, not least because I don’t have a link right now. The other murky point is that the people who need to be convinced are not gamers, but publishers. Whatever arguments we make in forums, Denuvo makes its own arguments to them behind closed doors. So far, their arguments have been convincing, enough for publishers to burn money on licenses, and it may be because they have some very valuable, and non-public, figures that make the case. The games industry is not always obligated to release full numbers to its fanbase.
I’m not trying to suggest anyone should shut up and accept Denuvo, I think a lot of the frustration is valid. But I do think it can be more nuanced than you reali3z
Denuvo adds an obscene amount of checks to the executable, which manifests as an increased CPU load (compare Assassin’s Creed Origins with and without it) and poorer performance. It also restricts the game’s availability to legitimate paying customers if there’s any issue with the “is this a new installation” detector.
You… either completely missed or completely ignored the point. The point being that, in order to attack the pirates who wouldn’t have bought the game anyway, regular paying users are getting screwed over by a significant performance hit.
Denvuo can cause issues for Linux users trying to switch proton versions. Denuvo is also terrible for game preservation. It’s not just pirates that are affected negatively.
The developers have a lot of choices in their approach to piracy and they chose a company that makes performance killing restraints that runs concurrent to the software causing poor performance. The game could be fun and run well but it is saddled by the poor business choices of the developer.
Yes I do because they actively chose to make their game shittier for people who purchase legitimate copies. You think pirates are going to pay for this shit? They were never going to pay to begin with, what makes you think they’re going to pay for it now?
@[email protected] 's entire post history seems to be comments arguing w people. His comment history is a wild ride. I have no idea what it would be like to be that angry and negative all day.
I’m not allowed to argue with you here or I’ll get banned, but do go ahead and bad faith your way through the entirety of the ToS agreement.
I’m well aware of who moderates this comm as well as the bias in .world. So enjoy the freedoms that comes with preaching bullshit to the pasture- unfettered.
I won’t apologize for having a different opinion, despite the all angry kids that it outrages downvotes. A different opinion is no reason to remain silent.
Just accept that your argumentative style and habit of putting people down are unwelcome here. So much of your post history is of you complaining. You’re being negative and toxic to the Lemmy community. Look at all your downvotes in this thread.
Your mod history doesn’t paint a pretty picture! lol Doesn’t that tell you something about what people on Lemmy think of you and the way you talk to people? You need to take a break from Lemmy or something. You this angry in your real life? Ick.
Pirates weren’t going to buy anyway, so therefore just let them pirate the game.
Thats your argument?
So that’s a slap in the face of paying customers. Why not just make the game fee for everyone then? If stupid “what if’s” are allowed.
And I’m not contradicting shit. You’re crying about a protection the developer put in place to stop people from PLAYING THE GAME FOR FREE. And not crying about the people that caused them to have to do it.
Stop sabotaging games for paying customers is the argument. It’s not complicated. You are obviously more interested in trying to stick it to pirates than getting an optimal experience for your money. Pirates will still play it for free in the end anyway.
Pirates didn’t “cause” anyone to do anything. The developers did it themselves after buying into Denuvo’s scam. Thousands and thousands of dollars paid every month to make up for the unknowable number of “lost sales”. I guess there’s one thing Denuvo does well.
Also, you did contradict yourself. Will the pirates buy the game or will they not? Make your mind up.
For denuvo to adversely effect your gameplay, you need to be running some seriously outdated hardware. It sucked the life out of AC Origins, sure…. Almost ten years ago….
It’s basically a non-issue now.
The only people crying about it now are would-be pirates that never planned to buy it in the first place. They are people pretending to be on a crusade against the «evil» Denuvo but in reality just angry they now can’t easily pirate the game anymore.
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If you ever feel dumb, remember that people actually argue for Denuvo to be put in more games, and if you have a problem with it, you’re the problem, not the spyware.
Well… that sucks. A version with denuvo might as well not exist for all I care. Fingers crossed the PS5 version runs OK…
A pirated game shouldn’t give you a better product than paying for it.
This certainly reinforces Gabens quote that piracy is a service problem.
It runs extremely well on the Playstation 5 Pro, according to Digital Foundry.
This is what pushes me to piracy. I had no intention of pirating Crimson Desert, because I think it looks good and I’d support the devs by buying it. But I’m not interested in buying a license to play a handicapped version of the game. I’ll just play something else until they remove Denuvo.
Also, fuck the shills across gaming sites celebrating the addition of Denuvo because “pirates are just mad they can’t get it free on day one”. People who pay get fucked over more than pirates do. We pay more for a worse version of the game than pirates eventually get for free.
Denuvo is a deal breaker.
Buy the game, play for 10 minutes, leave a negative review citing the performance issues and then refund it.
Oh! Good idea!
If you dot that you get penalized in BDO if you also play that.
They literally threaten your mmo account to make sure you don’t refund.
More of a reason to do it then. That’s scummy. I guess I’ll be avoiding them like the plague.
That’s a good idea! Either that, or I buy a key from a shady website so the devs don’t get any money
Ahh. So you admit that it hurts the devs. Imagine that.
So you blame the developer and not the pirates for this?
This is the equivalent of trumpers crying about “illegal” immigrants and not the people that hire them.
Go ahead and boycott the game over this. I’m sure the amount of money they’re making from all the would-be pirates now having to actually pay for a change will more than make up for it.
In a world were plenty of games without denuvo are doing just fine? Fuck yeah I blame the publisher/dev.
The pirates didn’t add a piece of software that doesn’t help sales, slows down computers, and eventually breaks the game. They remove it.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/
removed by mod
LMAO….
What an argument to credible sources disproving you wrong. Trump supporter logic.
LMAO! Trump supporter logic is getting mad at the result of the problem and not the problem. Keyword: “they’re taking our jobs!”
And piracy actually hurts game developers:
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/10/the-true-cost-of-game-piracy-20-percent-of-revenue-according-to-a-new-study/
But don’t let this get in the way of a good ol’ fashion outrage. 😂
Some of that does sound like Trump supporter logic though. Sounds like a lot of negativity when you talk w people too.
No no, Rheori has told people that anyone who disagrees with him is actually a Tankie/Trump supporter/Pirate.
And I’m sure you’ll be on his list of enemies too for calling him out. No one is allowed to question him. Only liars do that.
And Rhoeri would say everyone else is dogshit, and his shoes don’t need cleaned.
My first Final Fantasy game was a rom a friend all but insisted I play. Before that the idea of random encounters and turned-based combat were a huge turnoff to me, and I had no interest in buying it. Since then I’ve purchased a copy of nearly every game in the series, some more than once for different platforms. Same story for the Trails games and some others.
That’s a lot of money those companies would never had received if it weren’t for just a little bit of piracy to make a fan out of someone.
Typically the people I know who pirate because they want to play without paying are doing so because they don’t have the money. As mentioned countless times before, they would not have bought the game otherwise because they probably couldn’t afford it in the first place. Denuvo may (or may not, I don’t actually know) block pirates, but it doesn’t ensure the publisher is making any more money. It does however ensure that regular paying folks get a worse product. I think people have the right to be upset about that. They could just use a different DRM.
Bullshit.
Okay just ignore the personal anecdote on how a little bit of piracy actually helped create a long-time paying customer of multiple franchises, I guess.
(gollumnotlistening.gif)
But furthermore…
The study itself, linked in the article, states that Denuvo is effective at protecting sales for only about 12 weeks, then it does more long-term harm than good.
If that’s the case, I wonder how much Denuvo suppresses sales of a game over its lifetime once those 12 weeks are over?
Dude… the only people complaining about denuvo are people that would have pirated the game. There are tons of articles that illustrate the performance hit is barely noticeable. There’s even benchmarks that have been done to prove the negligible loss.
It’s a non-issue. It’s just would-be pirates on a crusade because they can’t play a game for free. This is a stale argument.
Go back to the Steam forums where you belong, bootlicker.
Person disagrees with your opinion:
You: “bOoTliCkEr!”
Except when people provide you with evidence and reasoning you just go “lmao” and leave it at that too.
I laugh at shit I find funny. If that makes someone a bootlicker, I hope for your sake that you have no sense of humor whatsoever.
Sure, just don’t pretend you’re engaging in logical discussion.
It’s completely logical to me. A thing can be two things. Maybe look up something called “nuance”.
Laughing about people crying because of an anti-piracy feature instead of being pissed at the pirates- then going so far as to say “well, they weren’t going to buy anyway!” as an argument against using it is fucking hilarious to me.
This doesn’t mean I have nothing to say about it. Nor does it make my stance in bad faith. I just think your argument is ridiculous, and therefore I laughed at it.
Show me the data that proves piracy actually causes a tangible loss for the developer for DRM to actually be needed.
(hint: it doesn’t exist. It instead shows most pirates weren’t going to buy the thing anyway, so they don’t make any more money by adding garbage like Denuvo)
The only way to do this accurately would require the same game to release twice on two planet Earths. It gets harder when pirates are not the types to offer up their purchase data honestly and willingly, for somewhat expectable reasons.
BUT, the closest we got is an old version of FIFA (we’ll assume it was FIFA. This is an old article, and unfortunately I’m only recalling details from memory until I can locate a very old bookmark) Those games sell each year, generally just to update the roster. You’ll see many college dorms where people just stack up each year’s edition they bought because that trend doesn’t change. In the year that the publisher added Denuvo encryption, the PC sales jumped significantly. The only reasonable explanation most analysts could come to is that many PC gamers found they couldn’t pirate the game, and bought it.
It’s not perfect data, not least because I don’t have a link right now. The other murky point is that the people who need to be convinced are not gamers, but publishers. Whatever arguments we make in forums, Denuvo makes its own arguments to them behind closed doors. So far, their arguments have been convincing, enough for publishers to burn money on licenses, and it may be because they have some very valuable, and non-public, figures that make the case. The games industry is not always obligated to release full numbers to its fanbase.
I’m not trying to suggest anyone should shut up and accept Denuvo, I think a lot of the frustration is valid. But I do think it can be more nuanced than you reali3z
Lmao…. Show you the data that would otherwise be impossible to show you?
There is no tangible way to prove who would or wouldn’t buy a thing if the parameters were different other than polling them.
And how exactly do you think polling dishonest people will turn out?
Why is pirating inherently dishonest in your opinion?
That question is too stupid to bother answering.
Shame. It’s a more nuanced discussion than you seem to believe.
But Rhoeri said they always use nuance in discussions, they couldn’t be defending companies that don’t care about them.
You think game developers don’t deserve to be paid for their work.
There is no nuance in this argument, therefore there’s no merit in debating it.
Since we all know your actual thought without even being told: Making a copy is not theft.
It is. But I’m not going to argue with you about it.
Denuvo adds an obscene amount of checks to the executable, which manifests as an increased CPU load (compare Assassin’s Creed Origins with and without it) and poorer performance. It also restricts the game’s availability to legitimate paying customers if there’s any issue with the “is this a new installation” detector.
Would-be pirates were never going to pay for it.
No loss.
You… either completely missed or completely ignored the point. The point being that, in order to attack the pirates who wouldn’t have bought the game anyway, regular paying users are getting screwed over by a significant performance hit.
Again, ten years ago this would be a true statement. Today, your system must be pretty shitty to be hit with performance issues.
The only people complaining about this are people who would have pirated it but now can’t.
Denvuo can cause issues for Linux users trying to switch proton versions. Denuvo is also terrible for game preservation. It’s not just pirates that are affected negatively.
The only people complaining about this are people who would have pirated it but now can’t.
The developers have a lot of choices in their approach to piracy and they chose a company that makes performance killing restraints that runs concurrent to the software causing poor performance. The game could be fun and run well but it is saddled by the poor business choices of the developer.
Yes I do because they actively chose to make their game shittier for people who purchase legitimate copies. You think pirates are going to pay for this shit? They were never going to pay to begin with, what makes you think they’re going to pay for it now?
They’re not. And now they don’t get to play it for free either.
Win-win.
Way to contradict yourself in literally the next comment. Clearly you are a shill and not a serious person.
You made great points!
@[email protected] 's entire post history seems to be comments arguing w people. His comment history is a wild ride. I have no idea what it would be like to be that angry and negative all day.
I’m not allowed to argue with you here or I’ll get banned, but do go ahead and bad faith your way through the entirety of the ToS agreement.
I’m well aware of who moderates this comm as well as the bias in .world. So enjoy the freedoms that comes with preaching bullshit to the pasture- unfettered.
I won’t apologize for having a different opinion, despite the all angry kids that it outrages downvotes. A different opinion is no reason to remain silent.
Enjoy the hive.
Just accept that your argumentative style and habit of putting people down are unwelcome here. So much of your post history is of you complaining. You’re being negative and toxic to the Lemmy community. Look at all your downvotes in this thread.
Your mod history doesn’t paint a pretty picture! lol Doesn’t that tell you something about what people on Lemmy think of you and the way you talk to people? You need to take a break from Lemmy or something. You this angry in your real life? Ick.
That’s extremely ironic coming from you
Pirates weren’t going to buy anyway, so therefore just let them pirate the game.
Thats your argument?
So that’s a slap in the face of paying customers. Why not just make the game fee for everyone then? If stupid “what if’s” are allowed.
And I’m not contradicting shit. You’re crying about a protection the developer put in place to stop people from PLAYING THE GAME FOR FREE. And not crying about the people that caused them to have to do it.
Fucking laughable.
Oh, and read this:
Stop sabotaging games for paying customers is the argument. It’s not complicated. You are obviously more interested in trying to stick it to pirates than getting an optimal experience for your money. Pirates will still play it for free in the end anyway.
Pirates didn’t “cause” anyone to do anything. The developers did it themselves after buying into Denuvo’s scam. Thousands and thousands of dollars paid every month to make up for the unknowable number of “lost sales”. I guess there’s one thing Denuvo does well.
Also, you did contradict yourself. Will the pirates buy the game or will they not? Make your mind up.
For denuvo to adversely effect your gameplay, you need to be running some seriously outdated hardware. It sucked the life out of AC Origins, sure…. Almost ten years ago….
It’s basically a non-issue now.
The only people crying about it now are would-be pirates that never planned to buy it in the first place. They are people pretending to be on a crusade against the «evil» Denuvo but in reality just angry they now can’t easily pirate the game anymore.
Who exactly “wins” anything here?
The dev pays for denuvo licenses an doesn’t gain enough sales to make up for it - lose.
The pirate waits longer to play the game - lose.
The paying customer gets an inferior product - lose.
Again, ten years ago there was a performance hit. Now, it’s not even noticeable unless you have severely outdated hardware.
The only people whining about this are people that would have pirated the game. Tough shit.
The people who worked their asses off to make a good game deserve to be paid for it. That’s who wins.
I wouldn’t expect anyone here to give a shit about that though. Enjoy your little memes.
Well modding is out of the question then, so the game is a hard drop from me.
Well, I was interested in playing it
We do not condone piracy or other illegal activity on this instance. It’s in the instance-wide TOS.
I’m done with everybody attacking one user for speaking up against piracy.
Locking this post, and asking admins to review all threads here.
Oh, once again a huge AAA looking game I never heard of
Would you look at that, another game I won’t be playing
Jason Denuuuvoo
The game is also unoptimized to shit. It needs at least a 7700XT to run at 1440p and 60 fps.
Because it also needs to run Denuvo.
Guess I won’t be bying that one.
What a shame, and I actually wanted to.
Denuvo DRM - Not even once
Oh yeah I have an assassins creed I never finished.
Beyond stupid. I get the game for free because I bought a AMD GPU. So I can’t exactly choose a different game…
I hope performance is fine, otherwise this is going to get neg review from me.
If you got it as a key you can maybe trade it? I’m sure there are still places around where you can trade stuff like that.
Way back in 2013 or so I got a Watch_Dogs key with my GeForce GTX 770. I traded the key for a couple of older but (to me) more interesting games.