After calls for Twitch to address antisemitism on the platform, the site’s hateful conduct policy now includes “Zionist” as a potential slur. Twitch specifies this is conditional: you’re allowed to discuss the political movement of that name, but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”
Jewish Supremacism was the instigating lobby for such laws. They wanted to enable other “supremacist liberal-themed” movements to take advantage, and hopefully ally, with Zionism. Me too, at the height of the cultural wars, essentially was representing that women can never lie.
An inherent problem with equality, awareness for oppressed groups, advocacy is that the advocacy never stops at equality. The ADL is canonical example of supremacist overreach.
I am not subscribing to this bullshit, and I am sad my comment enabled you to spew it out. “Me too” was a valid and necessary movement to combat sexual assaults that were institutionalized in many industries and protected by law enforcement and judicial authorities. Many prominent figures went rightfully to jail for sex crimes, and the proportion of women lying about it is rather small to make a political argument off it. Tracing back “liberal-themed supremacy movements” to Jewish supremacism sounds to me quite close to Nazi conspiracy theory, to take any of this seriously. I am sorry this reached my feed, and I can’t wait to engage the likes of you in combat.
sorry to be triggering, but there is a link between zionists using “Jews have a history of oppression” linking to “everything a zionist says is true” is a related tactic to “empowerment advocacy” doesn’t stop after equality achieved. Hate crime legislation was sponsored by zionists, but they welcomed allies into broadening protections. Flipping out over the comment is a supremacist tactic.
This might be out of context for the article, but once we are in /c/technology get this: GIMP is a slur, and their slogan during startup is “we glitch because we twitch” which makes me want to kick them in the nuts every time I use the fucking software.
If you had looked at the link of this post, you would have read:
Twitch specifies this is conditional: you’re allowed to discuss the political movement of that name, but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”
I.e. nothing is masqueraded here as long as they keep to this. This seems to be a reasonable policy. I’ve seen a couple of instances of people being derogatorily called zionists just for supporting the people of current Israel not being pushed away out of their now decades-old homes, which is hard to still call Zionist if they don’t support any further expansion and any offensive military action.
There’s almost never anything gained to use “Zionist” on someone as if saying “asshole”.
I guess my pessimistic lens is a little strong and I generally don’t trust large companies to act in good faith. So maybe I’m over scrutinizing here and being a bit of a curmudgeon.
I think your perspective is fair, and it’s likely this is akin to a high school faculty dealing with some random word or idea becoming a meme of sorts and causing problems. So they have to write some new rule that sounds ridiculous or weird.
It sucks there’s so much racism and bigotry driving forces in the world that it’s hard to not be dubious of everything. You always kinda wonder about the actual motivation behind things like this.
I’ve heard homo being used in a derogatory way as an insult. That usage should not be tolerated.
Retarded is just a medical term, yet you can use it as an insult as well.
That is what this “specification of conditional” aims at. It’s fine to use the word in a descriptive way, you’re just not allowed to go around angrily calling people “fucking zionist”
Twitch specifies this is conditional: you’re allowed to discuss the political movement of that name, but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”
Zionist is a political term, it has nothing to do with one’s background or religious belief.
But see if the political view is only held by members or a certain religious group (even if not all members of said religion accept said political thought), it’s easy to conflate it, so that you can ban anyone opposing said political thought based on “they’re discriminating against me because of my religion”.
I know there’s a lot of Christians involved but how do we know it’s the majority? Young Israelis are raised largely around Zionist propaganda after all.
There’s about 100 million evangelical christians in the US, and a LifeWay poll in 2017 showed that about 80% essentially considered themselves zionists. That’s 80 million. There’s 15.8 million jews worldwide. So the non-Jewish zionists outweigh Jewish zionists by a fair margin. Heck, they outweigh the zionist and the non-zionist jews taken together by a beefy margin, even.
A different definition of the term isn’t a different worldview. Also, not immediately spinning every exchange into an exhaustive debate isn’t a critical character flaw. Unlike being an insufferable ass about not getting the amount of attention you apparently feel entitled to.
Though I would take look at that poll about 80% of Christians being “essentially” Zionists if you’d link to it.
The same way I don’t think we should capitulate to framing “cracker” as a slur, or to framing “black lives matter” as a racist thing to say, I don’t think we should capitulate to framing things like “from the river to the sea” or “zionist” as antisemitic.
But, as a thought experiment, let’s indulge in this doublespeak trash. What is a good alternative? So far I’ve got:
Israeli colonizers
Jewish supremacists
genocidal sacks of shit
Israeli apartheidists
Isreal expansionists
Israeli warmongerers
people in favor of the genocide and apartheid committed by Israel (in full, every time you need to say zionist)
modern day nazis
zionazis (technically not zionist!)
So all of this liberal crybaby nomenclature trash aside, I actually do think “zionist” is in itself a fairly useless term for the Israeli apartheid question (as Norman Finkelstein and Judith Butler do too). While one faction of zionism pursued the nakba and massacres from fairly early on, and while this faction has been quite successful, there are other notions of zionism which do not entail murdering children or colonizing a country. When Netanyahu and Chomsky can both legitimately refer to themselves as zionists, I think it’s clear that zionism is too broad a term to be useful in the current ongoing genocide and the ethnic cleansing that has been going on for the better part of a century.
the problem is that about 75% of people have no idea what happened during the partition plan and 20% who do think what the Zionists did were justified (even pre partition/pre war/war time(
If you’re equating the Jewish people with zionism, or conflating being in favor of zionism as somehow being benevolent to the Jewish people as a whole, you are treating the Jewish people as a monolith and are yourself being anti-semitic. Zionism is perfectly compatible with anti-semitism (see for example all those anti-semitic christians who enthusiastically support zionism), and anti-zionism is in itself not anti-semitic (cf Jewish voice for peace).
So making “zionist” a slur has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with being anti-anti-semitic or not.
Fair enough, all good. I’m leaving mine up because I think the point about the conflation of anti-zionism and anti-semitism being in itself antisemitic bears repeating.
I’m still not sure what it means, judging by the comments here it (murderer / terrorist etc) it does seem to be used as a slur. So yeah, using the definition instead would be useful.
I just told you I I’m not sure of the definition, so asking me what I think it means is pointless. Though I’m pretty sure it’s not a group you can join like ISIS, right?
They’re saying that in the same way terrorist is not always a slur but is used as a slur sometimes, Zionist can be used as a slur. I think it’s a fair take. It’s odd to specifically list Zionist as a contextual slur when you can just say no slurs.
I don’t know if I fully agree but that’s their argument as I understand it.
Edit: Idk why people are down voting me trying to explain someone’s argument.
If you do something like refer to all white people or all Germans as Nazis then yeah, in that context it’s a slur. But just referring to members of the Nazi party, definitely not. Extreme far right folks, personally no, I don’t view it as a slur there. Some people may disagree (probably the extreme far right people being called Nazis).
From the link of this post that you could have clicked on:
Twitch specifies this is conditional: you’re allowed to discuss the political movement of that name, but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”
but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”
Yeah, how dare people try to demean someone just because they checks notes hold dehumanizing beliefs and support a government and movement bent on removing the people from their land so they can steal it and build new homes while ethnically cleansing the existing population.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.
Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.
Rules:
1: All Lemmy rules apply
2: Do not post low effort posts
3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff
4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.
5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)
6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist
7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed
Is this why we should not delegate the control of hate speech to the state, because it will always blow up in our faces?
Jewish Supremacism was the instigating lobby for such laws. They wanted to enable other “supremacist liberal-themed” movements to take advantage, and hopefully ally, with Zionism. Me too, at the height of the cultural wars, essentially was representing that women can never lie.
An inherent problem with equality, awareness for oppressed groups, advocacy is that the advocacy never stops at equality. The ADL is canonical example of supremacist overreach.
I am not subscribing to this bullshit, and I am sad my comment enabled you to spew it out. “Me too” was a valid and necessary movement to combat sexual assaults that were institutionalized in many industries and protected by law enforcement and judicial authorities. Many prominent figures went rightfully to jail for sex crimes, and the proportion of women lying about it is rather small to make a political argument off it. Tracing back “liberal-themed supremacy movements” to Jewish supremacism sounds to me quite close to Nazi conspiracy theory, to take any of this seriously. I am sorry this reached my feed, and I can’t wait to engage the likes of you in combat.
sorry to be triggering, but there is a link between zionists using “Jews have a history of oppression” linking to “everything a zionist says is true” is a related tactic to “empowerment advocacy” doesn’t stop after equality achieved. Hate crime legislation was sponsored by zionists, but they welcomed allies into broadening protections. Flipping out over the comment is a supremacist tactic.
Twitch is not the state
Sure it isn’t. Let’s review this when the state does the same thing lol.
Never used it and never will, but maybe we can make Twitch become a slur?
TBH people should talk about zionism and zionists much more.
This might be out of context for the article, but once we are in /c/technology get this: GIMP is a slur, and their slogan during startup is “we glitch because we twitch” which makes me want to kick them in the nuts every time I use the fucking software.
That kind of sucks, but it should only be for a dev release
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp-data/-/blob/main/images/splash-log.md
sooo twitch declares the Zionist movement offensive? and should only discussed in sn academic sense? /s
wow twitch, very brave!!
Calling zionism what it is shouldn’t be discouraged with dog whistles masquerading as conduct policies.
At the same time I’d like to remind folks that not all Jewish people subscribe to Zionism.
There are a couple Jewish lead organizations that fight for the freedom of Palestine and have been very critical of Israel for many years.
Jewish Voices for Peace* is one group. I wonder how they’d feel about Twitches new policy. I’m genuinely curious what their opinion would be.
Edit - corrected Jewish Voices for Peace
Which makes the blob anti-semitic for saying anti-zionism is anti-semitic.
If you had looked at the link of this post, you would have read:
I.e. nothing is masqueraded here as long as they keep to this. This seems to be a reasonable policy. I’ve seen a couple of instances of people being derogatorily called zionists just for supporting the people of current Israel not being pushed away out of their now decades-old homes, which is hard to still call Zionist if they don’t support any further expansion and any offensive military action.
There’s almost never anything gained to use “Zionist” on someone as if saying “asshole”.
Your ‘if’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting. And is fucking hilarious given they keep expanding and pushing people out of their decades old homes.
Funny how that part seems to be ignored in defense of zionists…
say what you say about state of Israel but they got AIPAC to run propaganda of the history!
being able to mobilize foreign population to support your genocide really is the psyop of all times lol
I guess my pessimistic lens is a little strong and I generally don’t trust large companies to act in good faith. So maybe I’m over scrutinizing here and being a bit of a curmudgeon.
I think your perspective is fair, and it’s likely this is akin to a high school faculty dealing with some random word or idea becoming a meme of sorts and causing problems. So they have to write some new rule that sounds ridiculous or weird.
It sucks there’s so much racism and bigotry driving forces in the world that it’s hard to not be dubious of everything. You always kinda wonder about the actual motivation behind things like this.
Zionists identify themselves as zionists. How’s that a slur?
I identify myself as a homosexual.
I’ve heard homo being used in a derogatory way as an insult. That usage should not be tolerated.
Retarded is just a medical term, yet you can use it as an insult as well.
That is what this “specification of conditional” aims at. It’s fine to use the word in a descriptive way, you’re just not allowed to go around angrily calling people “fucking zionist”
They use the word starting with F not the word homosexual
Zionist is a political term, it has nothing to do with one’s background or religious belief.
You’re entirely right.
But see if the political view is only held by members or a certain religious group (even if not all members of said religion accept said political thought), it’s easy to conflate it, so that you can ban anyone opposing said political thought based on “they’re discriminating against me because of my religion”.
Fuck twitch.
Further to this, the majority of zionists are christians.
I know there’s a lot of Christians involved but how do we know it’s the majority? Young Israelis are raised largely around Zionist propaganda after all.
There’s about 100 million evangelical christians in the US, and a LifeWay poll in 2017 showed that about 80% essentially considered themselves zionists. That’s 80 million. There’s 15.8 million jews worldwide. So the non-Jewish zionists outweigh Jewish zionists by a fair margin. Heck, they outweigh the zionist and the non-zionist jews taken together by a beefy margin, even.
That’s an insane number. Must be a very broad definition of Zionist.
Could you at least try to engage in this discussion? Or maybe come up with any evidence supporting your world view?
A different definition of the term isn’t a different worldview. Also, not immediately spinning every exchange into an exhaustive debate isn’t a critical character flaw. Unlike being an insufferable ass about not getting the amount of attention you apparently feel entitled to.
Though I would take look at that poll about 80% of Christians being “essentially” Zionists if you’d link to it.
us braindead fundies are numbered in dozens of millions and they largely support Zionism.
in rural US, radio glorifying genocide… it is very disturbing.
For every 1 Jewish Zionist, there are 30 Christian Zionists
The same way I don’t think we should capitulate to framing “cracker” as a slur, or to framing “black lives matter” as a racist thing to say, I don’t think we should capitulate to framing things like “from the river to the sea” or “zionist” as antisemitic.
But, as a thought experiment, let’s indulge in this doublespeak trash. What is a good alternative? So far I’ve got:
So all of this liberal crybaby nomenclature trash aside, I actually do think “zionist” is in itself a fairly useless term for the Israeli apartheid question (as Norman Finkelstein and Judith Butler do too). While one faction of zionism pursued the nakba and massacres from fairly early on, and while this faction has been quite successful, there are other notions of zionism which do not entail murdering children or colonizing a country. When Netanyahu and Chomsky can both legitimately refer to themselves as zionists, I think it’s clear that zionism is too broad a term to be useful in the current ongoing genocide and the ethnic cleansing that has been going on for the better part of a century.
I wish I could upvote this more.
Edit: a word
I’m partial to three, m’self.
the problem is that about 75% of people have no idea what happened during the partition plan and 20% who do think what the Zionists did were justified (even pre partition/pre war/war time(
These are indeed very good alternatives
Izan - Nazi backwards Iz A Nazi or IzrAeli Nazi
deleted by creator
If you’re equating the Jewish people with zionism, or conflating being in favor of zionism as somehow being benevolent to the Jewish people as a whole, you are treating the Jewish people as a monolith and are yourself being anti-semitic. Zionism is perfectly compatible with anti-semitism (see for example all those anti-semitic christians who enthusiastically support zionism), and anti-zionism is in itself not anti-semitic (cf Jewish voice for peace).
So making “zionist” a slur has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with being anti-anti-semitic or not.
I removed my comment because I realized after that I’ve would be interpreted like that. I don’t believe that all Jews are zionists
Fair enough, all good. I’m leaving mine up because I think the point about the conflation of anti-zionism and anti-semitism being in itself antisemitic bears repeating.
Good thing I’m an anti-zionist then I suppose.
But Zionism isn’t a religion, it’s a nationalist movement.
Are they gonna lock up genocide joe for hate crimes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDR-tWM2zzU
OK, so people can use the definition instead. In fact it might be more useful.
Terrorists?
I’m still not sure what it means, judging by the comments here it (murderer / terrorist etc) it does seem to be used as a slur. So yeah, using the definition instead would be useful.
Terrorist isn’t a slur. Or are you saying criticizing ISIS was biggoted?
I just told you I I’m not sure of the definition, so asking me what I think it means is pointless. Though I’m pretty sure it’s not a group you can join like ISIS, right?
They’re saying that in the same way terrorist is not always a slur but is used as a slur sometimes, Zionist can be used as a slur. I think it’s a fair take. It’s odd to specifically list Zionist as a contextual slur when you can just say no slurs.
I don’t know if I fully agree but that’s their argument as I understand it.
Edit: Idk why people are down voting me trying to explain someone’s argument.
I mean, is nazi a slur?
If you do something like refer to all white people or all Germans as Nazis then yeah, in that context it’s a slur. But just referring to members of the Nazi party, definitely not. Extreme far right folks, personally no, I don’t view it as a slur there. Some people may disagree (probably the extreme far right people being called Nazis).
If you refer to the Muslim man in the bomb vest as a terrorist its fine, if you refer to all muslim men as terrorists its a slur.
Refering to Israeli generals and politicians as Zionists is fine, If you refer to all Jewish people as Zionists…
Nobody is referring as all Jews as zionists. Actually it’s zionists and Israel defender who want you to believe that anti zionism is anti Judaism
I figured zionism had to do with an ideology, not a profession. Generalisations like these are not helping.
Falsehood is fruitless from the start so don’t worry, Truth always prevails as they say
Meanwhile, nobody has attempted to give a definition. Lots of downvotes all around though. 🤷🏼♀️
Yup, that’s it.
Hey everybody has a right to a racist ethnostate how dare people criticize the idea.
From the link of this post that you could have clicked on:
Yeah, how dare people try to demean someone just because they checks notes hold dehumanizing beliefs and support a government and movement bent on removing the people from their land so they can steal it and build new homes while ethnically cleansing the existing population.
smh my head.
Zionists really captured that platform.
You forgot your /s
Edit: https://www.twitchorterrorist.com/
No regrets ❤️
I would like to see a version where it’s pro Israel and zionist quote or terrorist quote
Congrats on your Bush era islamaphobia you ghoul
Can we make Twitch a slur for terrible tech companies.
All tech companies eventually enshitify and we would never be able to remember all of them if they all became slurs. Lol
@Alsephina okay, how about “the baddies”?;)
Friendly reminder that selfhosted streaming exists (Owncast) or online alternatives like PeerTube.