“I don’t want a steam account” should be perfectly justifiable reason in itself. There is no technical reason why they can’t split up steam input from the steam client for base functionality.
I have been thinking about this for a while, and I don’t think I would be.
A few reasons to back this up, firstly Epic have no hardware background and so I have nothing to have previous excitement over. Compared to Valve, where I have used the Index and I own the old steam controller and a Deck. Epic launching a controller just isn’t exciting to me.
Secondly, there are a load of controllers out there, and a lot of good controllers. If I was only able to use the controller within the Epic launcher, I would just get something else.
Thirdly, this would be an epic exclusive, I am not sure I would have actually head about it. They are impressively good at being a marketing black hole.
Yeah, if Sony sold you a controller that requires playstation everyone would be up in arms… Ah, no, bad example, their controllers do require playstation and it is an open source driver that makes them work… I know! If Microsoft sold you a controller that requires Windows everyone would be up in arms… Ah, no, bad example, they already do and it’s an open source driver that allows it to work outside of it… I guess this is just more of the same? Except (I still don’t have mine so can’t fully confirm but would be surprised if it didn’t) the steam controller probably works just like a regular controller outside of Steam, you just lose SteamInput which is very important for this controller.
Supposedly the new Steam Controller will work similar to the Steam Deck. By default it acts as mouse + keyboard. On Linux the Steam Deck Controller can act as a gamepad when holding down the start button. Hopefully the new Controller uses the same driver.
But so far there is no Windows driver so they are stuck in keyboard+mouse mode.
I would normally be pissed about it, and do tend to get annoyed at every other controller manufacturer who make it necessary to use proprietary apps to make full use of their controllers.
But in the case of Steam, I’m already using their input software with every other controller I use for the simple fact that it is that useful. Also, it’s probably only a matter of time before there are upstream kernel drivers.
Valves contributions to Proton and Wine already leave Linux in a great place for gaming, with or without Steam. Post-Gabe Steam is simply a matter of going back to the high seas. 🏴☠️
Difference is that those who extensively use Steam Input like me have already been adding games to Steam to utilize Steam Input in non Steam games to set up things like gyro aim, radial menus, modeshifts, action sets, etc.
Steam Input is a powerful remapper and free. Paid options like ReWASD ended up getting people banned, since mouse and keyboard users started using it to cheat by having their mouse emulate a joystick and the company refusing to remove support to bind controller inputs to mouse/keyboard.
It’d come down to how good Epic’s controller remapping software is in supporting advanced configs, and customization for inputs like gyro and touchpads and third party controllers.
I’m thinking about the people like me who have a Steam account, want this controller, but would also love to use it at our friends’ places where there’s just a Switch 2 or a PS5.
For compatibility, I’m better off using 3rd party controllers.
Yeah, but buy a Switch 2 Pro Controller and try to use it on the PS5.
Vendor lock in is bad, don’t get me wrong but, without Steam, PS controllers have always been a pain to get going on PC. I would prefer they push native level OS controllers, even if it’s just a ‘lizard mode’ but I’m sure the track pads make it more complicated.
I hope that Steam will enable cross platform compatibility for their controller.
I don’t need the trackpads to work on my friend’s switch. Just a 1 to 1 mapping of the buttons from a switch pro controller is good enough.
It’s probably true by definition since I imagine the first batch will only be sold through the steam store 😅. I have the original steam controller and as I’ve been moving towards GOG and Itch my steam client and steam account remains vestigially just as a bloated steam controller driver. Honestly I would also accept it if they let us use the client completely offline without an account as well.
It’s still a negative because what if you decide you move away from Steam. Are you just going to throw the controller in the bin because you can’t use it elsewhere? Are you going to keep the entire Steam client on your machine just because you want to use the controller? And that’s assuming it’s easy to use the controller with non-Steam games. For example from the review they struggled to get the controller to work with KCD2 because they booted it through Epic launcher and they couldn’t set up the launcher through Steam so they had to take a completely different approach to set up the controller just for KCD.
My entire library isn’t on Steam and that includes games I play with a controller. If setting up non-steam games is a pain in the ass for this controller I’m just going to stick to my Xbox controller because that’s pick up and play.
You’d need to use Steam Input anyways to set up unique inputs like touchpads, capacitive sticks, and grip sensors other controllers don’t have.
Those features are kind of the point of the new Steam Controller and requires user set up on a per game basis, since they aren’t natively supported in games.
So it is pointless to spend more on the Steam Controller if you are just wanting a Xbox controller experience. It’s an enthusiast controller where the extra price is for the inputs other controllers don’t have to set up to be used in ways devs didn’t anticipate.
That said this controller for the price should have had a way to save profiles so they could be used without needing Steam running.
But configuring the controller to work with a game is not the same as configuring the game to make the controller usable. There are a lot of input devices with custom layouts that have its own software for configuring the device and make it usable with all sorts of games without requiring a configuration of the game to identify the controller. And Valve should do the same with the Steam controller, create a software solution that lets you use and configure the Steam controller without needing the entire Steam client and some workaround for games outside the Steam ecosystem. It’s pretty much standard practice for interface devices and I don’t think we should be letting Valve off the hook because Steam is the biggest storefront on the PC market.
Yeah it may seem weird. I don’t find the need for Steam Input to configure the controller weird, since I personally use it to do some unusual things with my controllers mixing mouse/keyboard/gamepad inputs on controllers ranging from the 8bitdo, playstation, to OG steam controller. When it comes to my controller use on PC I am rarely happy with the default controller setup, so need a remapper. And put in gyro into almost every game I play at the minimum.
But, am disappointed that the new Steam Controller didn’t put in support to save profiles so you don’t need Steam running to use. And that the default lizard mode when Steam isn’t running isn’t something more logical like having all the regular controller inputs being xinput so people can just use it as a regular xbox controller and the touchpads just behaving as a mouse and the click being mouse click for desktop navigation.
Oh. I wasn’t saying it should work without Steam Input, I meant Steam Input should work without Steam so you could use the controller without needing the entire Steam client.
They did, a couple of weeks after launch. It wasn’t hard, it was just a USB device with lots of inputs so the software made a fake controller and allowed you to map inputs, it’s very likely the exact same software would work for the new controller for the inputs that both had. This thread is filled with fearmongering by people who have never held the OG steam controller in their hands and don’t understand this device.
For that matter, the original controller without Steam running had a default mapping that had it output as a mouse and keyboard with sensible bindings. It was called ‘lizard mode’.
Yes, except it only sells on steam so you need an account to buy one. Also I’m fairly confident that it will just work outside of steam, just not full functionality as that depends on SteamInput for remapping and gestures. Most games don’t handle gyro, trackpads or back buttons on controllers so if you use this outside of Steam you won’t take advantage of those features. But I would bet that it will work as a regular controller even without steam.
Can you even buy this without a Steam account though? It’s the Steam Controller, sold through Steam, designed to work on Steam. A third party driver to convert it to Xinput will probably drop within a week of its ship date (just like it did for the first Steam Controller), but if you’re against having a Steam account I’d wonder why you want a Steam Controller in the first place. There’s plenty of non-Steam controllers after all.
so they would have to write and support a completely new userfacing application that would have to run on 3 different OSes and inject into games upon launch. a bit too much effort considering 99% of the audience will use it with Steam.
It’s called driver config and it’s not a tremendously complicated bit of software. Most of its functionality doesn’t need to “inject into games” - it just needs to remap the inputs so the driver can present them in whatever way works for the game. If the game doesn’t support anything sensible, then maybe fancy stuff is warranted, and you might well miss out on that from a driver config utility. But that’s OK.
I was not arguing against it functioning as a barebones xbox-like gamepad - that should’ve been done IMO. I was arguing against “splitting up SteamInput from Steam” - that would mean extracting all the fancy stuff too, and that’s the difficult part.
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“I don’t want a steam account” should be perfectly justifiable reason in itself. There is no technical reason why they can’t split up steam input from the steam client for base functionality.
Exactly. If Epic released a $99 controller that required EGS running to work people would be up in arms.
I have been thinking about this for a while, and I don’t think I would be.
A few reasons to back this up, firstly Epic have no hardware background and so I have nothing to have previous excitement over. Compared to Valve, where I have used the Index and I own the old steam controller and a Deck. Epic launching a controller just isn’t exciting to me.
Secondly, there are a load of controllers out there, and a lot of good controllers. If I was only able to use the controller within the Epic launcher, I would just get something else.
Thirdly, this would be an epic exclusive, I am not sure I would have actually head about it. They are impressively good at being a marketing black hole.
Yeah, if Sony sold you a controller that requires playstation everyone would be up in arms… Ah, no, bad example, their controllers do require playstation and it is an open source driver that makes them work… I know! If Microsoft sold you a controller that requires Windows everyone would be up in arms… Ah, no, bad example, they already do and it’s an open source driver that allows it to work outside of it… I guess this is just more of the same? Except (I still don’t have mine so can’t fully confirm but would be surprised if it didn’t) the steam controller probably works just like a regular controller outside of Steam, you just lose SteamInput which is very important for this controller.
Supposedly the new Steam Controller will work similar to the Steam Deck. By default it acts as mouse + keyboard. On Linux the Steam Deck Controller can act as a gamepad when holding down the start button. Hopefully the new Controller uses the same driver.
But so far there is no Windows driver so they are stuck in keyboard+mouse mode.
I would normally be pissed about it, and do tend to get annoyed at every other controller manufacturer who make it necessary to use proprietary apps to make full use of their controllers.
But in the case of Steam, I’m already using their input software with every other controller I use for the simple fact that it is that useful. Also, it’s probably only a matter of time before there are upstream kernel drivers.
The day GabeN dies I will fear for my game library and all the Steam hardware I’ve bought.
If he’s worth his salt, there will be a decent replacement.
Valves contributions to Proton and Wine already leave Linux in a great place for gaming, with or without Steam. Post-Gabe Steam is simply a matter of going back to the high seas. 🏴☠️
Bazzite-deck 44 will include open gamepad UI, you get an open source “Steam BPM -like” UI but for any game source.
Steam’s street cred in danger here. They are going to join them not beat them.
Difference is that those who extensively use Steam Input like me have already been adding games to Steam to utilize Steam Input in non Steam games to set up things like gyro aim, radial menus, modeshifts, action sets, etc.
Steam Input is a powerful remapper and free. Paid options like ReWASD ended up getting people banned, since mouse and keyboard users started using it to cheat by having their mouse emulate a joystick and the company refusing to remove support to bind controller inputs to mouse/keyboard.
It’d come down to how good Epic’s controller remapping software is in supporting advanced configs, and customization for inputs like gyro and touchpads and third party controllers.
I want to meet the person who would consider buying this but doesn’t have a Steam account.
(I do not think this hypothetical person exists.)
I’m thinking about the people like me who have a Steam account, want this controller, but would also love to use it at our friends’ places where there’s just a Switch 2 or a PS5.
For compatibility, I’m better off using 3rd party controllers.
Yeah, but buy a Switch 2 Pro Controller and try to use it on the PS5.
Vendor lock in is bad, don’t get me wrong but, without Steam, PS controllers have always been a pain to get going on PC. I would prefer they push native level OS controllers, even if it’s just a ‘lizard mode’ but I’m sure the track pads make it more complicated.
I hope that Steam will enable cross platform compatibility for their controller. I don’t need the trackpads to work on my friend’s switch. Just a 1 to 1 mapping of the buttons from a switch pro controller is good enough.
Valve makes PC hardware. Consoles are walled gardens. You want to use any controller? Stay on PC or buy a Magic Flash or Brooks.
My Thrustmaster Flight Stick doesn’t work with my Wii U, how dare Thrustmaster not support my choices.
You recognize vendor lock is bad, and that’s why they’re complaining, you guys are arguing about nothing
It’s probably true by definition since I imagine the first batch will only be sold through the steam store 😅. I have the original steam controller and as I’ve been moving towards GOG and Itch my steam client and steam account remains vestigially just as a bloated steam controller driver. Honestly I would also accept it if they let us use the client completely offline without an account as well.
It’s still a negative because what if you decide you move away from Steam. Are you just going to throw the controller in the bin because you can’t use it elsewhere? Are you going to keep the entire Steam client on your machine just because you want to use the controller? And that’s assuming it’s easy to use the controller with non-Steam games. For example from the review they struggled to get the controller to work with KCD2 because they booted it through Epic launcher and they couldn’t set up the launcher through Steam so they had to take a completely different approach to set up the controller just for KCD.
My entire library isn’t on Steam and that includes games I play with a controller. If setting up non-steam games is a pain in the ass for this controller I’m just going to stick to my Xbox controller because that’s pick up and play.
You’d need to use Steam Input anyways to set up unique inputs like touchpads, capacitive sticks, and grip sensors other controllers don’t have.
Those features are kind of the point of the new Steam Controller and requires user set up on a per game basis, since they aren’t natively supported in games.
So it is pointless to spend more on the Steam Controller if you are just wanting a Xbox controller experience. It’s an enthusiast controller where the extra price is for the inputs other controllers don’t have to set up to be used in ways devs didn’t anticipate.
That said this controller for the price should have had a way to save profiles so they could be used without needing Steam running.
But configuring the controller to work with a game is not the same as configuring the game to make the controller usable. There are a lot of input devices with custom layouts that have its own software for configuring the device and make it usable with all sorts of games without requiring a configuration of the game to identify the controller. And Valve should do the same with the Steam controller, create a software solution that lets you use and configure the Steam controller without needing the entire Steam client and some workaround for games outside the Steam ecosystem. It’s pretty much standard practice for interface devices and I don’t think we should be letting Valve off the hook because Steam is the biggest storefront on the PC market.
Like I said.
I read that and found it weird that you’d argue against my point only to turn around and agree with me in the end.
Yeah it may seem weird. I don’t find the need for Steam Input to configure the controller weird, since I personally use it to do some unusual things with my controllers mixing mouse/keyboard/gamepad inputs on controllers ranging from the 8bitdo, playstation, to OG steam controller. When it comes to my controller use on PC I am rarely happy with the default controller setup, so need a remapper. And put in gyro into almost every game I play at the minimum.
But, am disappointed that the new Steam Controller didn’t put in support to save profiles so you don’t need Steam running to use. And that the default lizard mode when Steam isn’t running isn’t something more logical like having all the regular controller inputs being xinput so people can just use it as a regular xbox controller and the touchpads just behaving as a mouse and the click being mouse click for desktop navigation.
Oh. I wasn’t saying it should work without Steam Input, I meant Steam Input should work without Steam so you could use the controller without needing the entire Steam client.
Hasn’t someone written a wrapper to use the original Steam Controller without the Steam client software? I thought that was a thing years ago.
They did, a couple of weeks after launch. It wasn’t hard, it was just a USB device with lots of inputs so the software made a fake controller and allowed you to map inputs, it’s very likely the exact same software would work for the new controller for the inputs that both had. This thread is filled with fearmongering by people who have never held the OG steam controller in their hands and don’t understand this device.
For that matter, the original controller without Steam running had a default mapping that had it output as a mouse and keyboard with sensible bindings. It was called ‘lizard mode’.
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Yes, except it only sells on steam so you need an account to buy one. Also I’m fairly confident that it will just work outside of steam, just not full functionality as that depends on SteamInput for remapping and gestures. Most games don’t handle gyro, trackpads or back buttons on controllers so if you use this outside of Steam you won’t take advantage of those features. But I would bet that it will work as a regular controller even without steam.
Can you even buy this without a Steam account though? It’s the Steam Controller, sold through Steam, designed to work on Steam. A third party driver to convert it to Xinput will probably drop within a week of its ship date (just like it did for the first Steam Controller), but if you’re against having a Steam account I’d wonder why you want a Steam Controller in the first place. There’s plenty of non-Steam controllers after all.
Then don’t buy the Steam controller. I would assume 99.9% of those interested in the “Steam” Controller will have a Steam account
Imagine if Xbox controllers only worked for Game Pass.
Since when have Xbox controllers worked for PlayStation? Plus Steam is free and Game Pass isn’t, so a false equivalency
so they would have to write and support a completely new userfacing application that would have to run on 3 different OSes and inject into games upon launch. a bit too much effort considering 99% of the audience will use it with Steam.
It’s called driver config and it’s not a tremendously complicated bit of software. Most of its functionality doesn’t need to “inject into games” - it just needs to remap the inputs so the driver can present them in whatever way works for the game. If the game doesn’t support anything sensible, then maybe fancy stuff is warranted, and you might well miss out on that from a driver config utility. But that’s OK.
I was not arguing against it functioning as a barebones xbox-like gamepad - that should’ve been done IMO. I was arguing against “splitting up SteamInput from Steam” - that would mean extracting all the fancy stuff too, and that’s the difficult part.
I see