They kind of been for a while. At least architecture wise but with the new Xbox ROG handheld you can access your steam library or install a different OS like Bazzite altogether. You can‘t play your Xbox games on it though, which probably means the days of Xbox as a console are over. But Xbox players must‘ve known they won‘t be able to transfer their game library to new device anyway.
Not all Xbox players, clearly. With Microsoft doubling down on not having any physical media containing the full retail game on disk from Xbox 1 onwards, every one of those accounts are hosed unless they have an archive of all the downloaded files needed.
My advice to them - mod your consoles (360 and below) if you have them, rip your discs, and get ready for when Xbox services (for console hardware) are sunset.
I’ve always been okay with keeping gaming libraries digital - but I think the larger console population might be okay with that too if we could disconnect digital games from account-based ownership - the kind where a company can go “Oh, whoops, we lost the license to this fart sound effect. We’re going to have to remove this game from your library.”
That’s called releasing your games on GOG, modding in missing assets, or easy piracy, all PC-centric features.
There is no way in hell any console platform would allow that level of untethered ownership ever again. Nintendo was the last one, and it’s gone with the switch 2.
To be honest, once that starts happening I wont be worried about my digital library. I’ll be so pissed that ill just stop spending any money on any games ever again. I’ll be back to sailing the high seas.
Have been since the 8th generation, unless you count Nintendo, whose 8th gen (Wii U) was a PowerPC Architecture (Mac), and 9th gen onward is a glorified Android phone with a dedicated GPU.
I guess it depends on how you define PC. But older consoles also used CPUs that were found in desktops (and laptops), although they weren’t PCs in the strict sense.
Sega Mega Drive (and other consoles) used the Motorola 68K that was also used on Macintosh and Amiga.
Game Gear and Sega Master System used the Zilog Z80 which was also used in the ZX Spectrum and other computers.
N64, PSOne, PS2 used MIPS CPUs which were often used in high-end computer systems (SGI).
Consoles did often have custom GPUs though.
That being said, these days both Playstation and Xbox are literally locked down, custom form factor, AMD Ryzen CPU + Radeon GPU PCs.
Playstation 2 supported Linux and it ran MIPS, which was the architecture used in SGI Indigo systems, perhaps most famously seen in Jurassic Park’s “it’s a UNIX system” scene.
It seems that even Playstation One has an (early) public Linux port.
I mean… Yes… But you wouldn’t be able to run steam or install games designed for the PC platform on the hardware, which is what the 8th generation consoles (at least a hacked PS4, Xbox 1 is unhacked) are able to do. I suppose even with that in mind, the Original Xbox and PS2 would count because Doom, but still.
Yeah I define PC less by the hardware but whether I can install whatever OS I want and whatever programs I want without restrictions, which consoles don’t let you do. And consoles these days are way more powerful than PCs from decades ago yet still crippled when it comes to expected PC functions.
Apple announced the transition in 2005 but began using Intel chips in 2006, but still, PowerPC is best known as the chips that powered Macs for a little over a decade.
I’m not the person you responded to — I actually did not know that the Wii U used PowerPC. I did know that the Xbox 360 did and have made that argument.
It’s a big egregious to call it a Mac (though I do, mostly in jest), but, that is the connection.
Of note, the PowerPC chips were made by IBM (and Motorola according to the article I linked — I did not know that before). So, a former Apple competitor. And now (since mid-2020) Apple competes with Intel, which they switched to from PowerPC. So, bit of a tangent at this point, but these rivalries we have as users are partnerships that come and go in the business world.
Just for clarification the Wii, Wii U, 360, and PS3 all used the Cell Broadband Engine which is a PowerPC derivative. The original PowerPC was made by the AIM Alliance which stands for Apple, IBM, Motorola. Apple and Motorola had a long history of collaboration as all Apple machines had used Motorola processors up to that point.
I’m confused by your first sentence - the last machines they made that used PPC were in 2005. To me it reads like you’re correcting me but saying exactly the same thing…?
The fact that Macs stopped using the architecture twenty years ago makes it bit of an odd connection, I would argue. As you say, the 360 used the architecture far more recently and over 84 million of those were sold. It’s not like it was some obscure device.
The main reason I used the comparison is because no PC analog outside of Apple’s space (Unless you count Linux on PowerPC?) used the architecture. x86 has a strong association with Windows, PC gaming, and “PCs” as a whole, while PowerPC’s most iconic use in the personal computing space was in consoles and in Apple’s lineup. Because of that, I chose to mention the PowerPC Mac line.
But the Switch and beyond use ARM, the architecture Macs have used for the last five years?
It just seemed an odd thing to mention given how long it’s been since Macs used PPC. I know they used to, but I’m old enough to have used 68000k Macs too so of course I remember that time.
When I think of portable ARM devices, my mind immediately snaps to cell phones and the Android ecosystem (which is what the Switch was compared to and even successfully hacked to run Android on).
Which is fair enough and totally reasonable - it was purely in the context of that comment it seemed odd. You had a device that actually uses the architecture that Macs use and one that used an architecture that they don’t but… yeah. It’s not important, it just made me chuckle.
They kinda always were, tbh. Just with some kind of unique limitation specific to each console that prevented them from being used for any purpose other than playing a specific brand of video game.
I believe if a new generation of consoles are released they’re just going to be glorified streaming boxes. Sony has pretty much hit a plateau as far as graphics go, there’s not much you can improve upon now. And sure people are cancelling and complaining about gamepass but Microsoft might just go the route of “we’ll tell you what you want, and if you want this exclusive you’ll have no choice but to subscribe”.
So you’ll pay for this streaming box, you’ll get maybe a couple months of the subscription for free, then you’ll pay $30 to $50 a month to get access to their catalog. Sony and Nintendo will follow suite. If you want to actually “own” anything you’ll play on PC and even then that’s truly up for debate. Like do you actually own the content you buy on Steam?
Steam as a platform is easy to crack (that’s why so many steam game repacks circulate), but there’s a degree of expected stability due to their reputation for the Steam platform’s longevity built over two decades. Additionally, their status as a private company with no external pressure puts them ahead of MS, Sony, and Nintendo in terms of future turbulence.
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So consoles are basically becoming branded gaming pcs?
They kind of been for a while. At least architecture wise but with the new Xbox ROG handheld you can access your steam library or install a different OS like Bazzite altogether. You can‘t play your Xbox games on it though, which probably means the days of Xbox as a console are over. But Xbox players must‘ve known they won‘t be able to transfer their game library to new device anyway.
Not all Xbox players, clearly. With Microsoft doubling down on not having any physical media containing the full retail game on disk from Xbox 1 onwards, every one of those accounts are hosed unless they have an archive of all the downloaded files needed.
My advice to them - mod your consoles (360 and below) if you have them, rip your discs, and get ready for when Xbox services (for console hardware) are sunset.
I’ve always been okay with keeping gaming libraries digital - but I think the larger console population might be okay with that too if we could disconnect digital games from account-based ownership - the kind where a company can go “Oh, whoops, we lost the license to this fart sound effect. We’re going to have to remove this game from your library.”
That’s called releasing your games on GOG, modding in missing assets, or easy piracy, all PC-centric features.
There is no way in hell any console platform would allow that level of untethered ownership ever again. Nintendo was the last one, and it’s gone with the switch 2.
To be honest, once that starts happening I wont be worried about my digital library. I’ll be so pissed that ill just stop spending any money on any games ever again. I’ll be back to sailing the high seas.
Come to the PC world then. We have free mods, no online subscriptions, DRM-free gaming, and open-source software no one can take from you.
More accurately, PCs are becoming consoles, but yes, they want to converge it all into a locked down hardware as a service industry.
The Amiga dream is finally coming true
Microsoft approved PCs are becoming consoles.
The PS Triple/360 generation was the last time that wasn’t the case
Have been since the 8th generation, unless you count Nintendo, whose 8th gen (Wii U) was a PowerPC Architecture (Mac), and 9th gen onward is a glorified Android phone with a dedicated GPU.
I guess it depends on how you define PC. But older consoles also used CPUs that were found in desktops (and laptops), although they weren’t PCs in the strict sense.
Consoles did often have custom GPUs though.
That being said, these days both Playstation and Xbox are literally locked down, custom form factor, AMD Ryzen CPU + Radeon GPU PCs.
I think the bar is effectively “x86 architecture and could theoretically at least run linux” (in which case the original xbox would qualify)
I wouldn’t limit it to x86 though.
Playstation 2 supported Linux and it ran MIPS, which was the architecture used in SGI Indigo systems, perhaps most famously seen in Jurassic Park’s “it’s a UNIX system” scene.
It seems that even Playstation One has an (early) public Linux port.
There is no right answer of course. :)
I mean… Yes… But you wouldn’t be able to run steam or install games designed for the PC platform on the hardware, which is what the 8th generation consoles (at least a hacked PS4, Xbox 1 is unhacked) are able to do. I suppose even with that in mind, the Original Xbox and PS2 would count because Doom, but still.
Bringus Studios PS4 Linux PC gaming vid
There was a doom port I think.
Of course there soon was a doom port for pretty much everything, so it’s not saying much.
Yeah I define PC less by the hardware but whether I can install whatever OS I want and whatever programs I want without restrictions, which consoles don’t let you do. And consoles these days are way more powerful than PCs from decades ago yet still crippled when it comes to expected PC functions.
All 3 consoles of that generation (PS 3, Xbox 360 and Wii) used custom PowerPC cores suplied by IBM.
Before anyone says anything, Yes, the Cell CPU on the PS3 had a PPC core paired with 7 vectorual units, so it counts.
That’s 7th generation. 8th generation is PS4, Xbox 1, and Wii U.
Mac haven’t used PowerPC since 2005.
Apple announced the transition in 2005 but began using Intel chips in 2006, but still, PowerPC is best known as the chips that powered Macs for a little over a decade.
I’m not the person you responded to — I actually did not know that the Wii U used PowerPC. I did know that the Xbox 360 did and have made that argument.
It’s a big egregious to call it a Mac (though I do, mostly in jest), but, that is the connection.
Of note, the PowerPC chips were made by IBM (and Motorola according to the article I linked — I did not know that before). So, a former Apple competitor. And now (since mid-2020) Apple competes with Intel, which they switched to from PowerPC. So, bit of a tangent at this point, but these rivalries we have as users are partnerships that come and go in the business world.
Just for clarification the Wii, Wii U, 360, and PS3 all used the Cell Broadband Engine which is a PowerPC derivative. The original PowerPC was made by the AIM Alliance which stands for Apple, IBM, Motorola. Apple and Motorola had a long history of collaboration as all Apple machines had used Motorola processors up to that point.
I’m confused by your first sentence - the last machines they made that used PPC were in 2005. To me it reads like you’re correcting me but saying exactly the same thing…?
The fact that Macs stopped using the architecture twenty years ago makes it bit of an odd connection, I would argue. As you say, the 360 used the architecture far more recently and over 84 million of those were sold. It’s not like it was some obscure device.
The main reason I used the comparison is because no PC analog outside of Apple’s space (Unless you count Linux on PowerPC?) used the architecture. x86 has a strong association with Windows, PC gaming, and “PCs” as a whole, while PowerPC’s most iconic use in the personal computing space was in consoles and in Apple’s lineup. Because of that, I chose to mention the PowerPC Mac line.
But the Switch and beyond use ARM, the architecture Macs have used for the last five years? It just seemed an odd thing to mention given how long it’s been since Macs used PPC. I know they used to, but I’m old enough to have used 68000k Macs too so of course I remember that time.
When I think of portable ARM devices, my mind immediately snaps to cell phones and the Android ecosystem (which is what the Switch was compared to and even successfully hacked to run Android on).
Which is fair enough and totally reasonable - it was purely in the context of that comment it seemed odd. You had a device that actually uses the architecture that Macs use and one that used an architecture that they don’t but… yeah. It’s not important, it just made me chuckle.
…and groan about the march of time.
They kinda always were, tbh. Just with some kind of unique limitation specific to each console that prevented them from being used for any purpose other than playing a specific brand of video game.
I believe if a new generation of consoles are released they’re just going to be glorified streaming boxes. Sony has pretty much hit a plateau as far as graphics go, there’s not much you can improve upon now. And sure people are cancelling and complaining about gamepass but Microsoft might just go the route of “we’ll tell you what you want, and if you want this exclusive you’ll have no choice but to subscribe”.
So you’ll pay for this streaming box, you’ll get maybe a couple months of the subscription for free, then you’ll pay $30 to $50 a month to get access to their catalog. Sony and Nintendo will follow suite. If you want to actually “own” anything you’ll play on PC and even then that’s truly up for debate. Like do you actually own the content you buy on Steam?
Steam as a platform is easy to crack (that’s why so many steam game repacks circulate), but there’s a degree of expected stability due to their reputation for the Steam platform’s longevity built over two decades. Additionally, their status as a private company with no external pressure puts them ahead of MS, Sony, and Nintendo in terms of future turbulence.
That’s why piracy is also an option.