That’s probably because of how Shakey inquisition was with it, and then how much of a flip Andromeda was, which admittedly I still liked. Me2 and 3 were mission focused and are 2 of my favorite games of all time
I kind of hate the thing in games where it’s like “you didn’t look in the second bathroom so you didn’t get the staff of mega fireballs. No, you can’t go back to the house. It’s still there but you can’t go in.”.
That and the common “no matter what the game says, do the quest objective last because that might move you past something important” thing.
Playing Mass Effect 2 and there’s a lot of “go fight them and save the day!” And I’m like hold on I need to check every corner for upgrades real quick.
Cool, maybe rpgs aren’t for you. Exploration, change and discovery is half the point. If you want to automatically get all the best loot because you went to a required place and did the required thing maybe you don’t want an rpg maybe you just want a story game. That’s fine, but DA was supposed to a BG spiritual successor once upon a time.
You now have a one-quest-long window to do these three steps in order otherwise you will never be able to complete this quest line due to missing out on the item that’s only available if you use this specific thingamajig on the other thingamajig in the hidden room. There isn’t any indication of that in the entire game, except that some quest will never ever finish and be stuck on the vague “find x things” stage forever. If you google how to finish the quest in thirty hours of game time, you’re just SoL. Better luck next run.
What exactly is the “role” one is playing here? Diviner? Psychic reading the game dev’s mind?
If I see a game with a massive inventory, a bunch of stats, and killing monsters with my sword increases my sword speciality by 1… I’m going to have a lot of other expectations.
Edit: I love the downvote because you disagree. Reply why. Don’t be like reddit.
I’m a little torn on this, because I loved the Hinterlands. It was every other map I started to hate. If it was just one open world section I think I would like it more
I also love the Hinterlands, but you and I are in the vast minority based on the initial feedback to Inquisition. It was super common to hear “just push past the Hinterlands, it’s so much better afterwards”. Even more generally, I’ve been hearing “why are all the devs making all their games open world for no reason?”
I’m also an open-world junkie because I love exploration. I’m saddened by this design choice, but I do completely understand where it comes from. It can still be done well and I love the lore of Thedas, so I’ll be there to see, I guess.
I think the real issue is the large, typically procedurally generated, open worlds that feel empty. Even BOTW lacks a lot of substance to the world they built (villages feel smaller and less important, little/no ovwrworld secrets, etc.). I think games like God of War did a good job of openish worlds with some exploration, but still crafted.
There’s nuance in it, for certain, but there is a large contingent of people who play games that find most open worlds boring. I love a big open world, even a lot of the procedurally-generated ones are fine with me when it’s done correctly (looking at you, Starfield 😒). There are myriad options in between there, where it sounds like you might fall as well.
The key is, as you say, making the world in such a way that it drives the core gameplay loop. This is such a bizarre example, but I just played Animal Well recently and I think it’s actually a fantastic example of this. Every area of this large map that you retread over and over again has hidden, intentional elements that clearly drive at the core gameplay loop of “discover secrets everywhere”. It’s also a 7 year passion project not likely to be replicated. I do think though that the lessons can be learned and applied on less intense projects.
Sit down, consider your loop. Why is the player here, having fun with your game? Is it to discover secrets? Hide secrets everywhere. Is it to drive around in a souped up car? Add more space and interesting driving conditions. Is it to kill big enemies? Add huge roaming bosses. I think after that focus is determined, then you should shrink it as much as possible while still fitting into your design constraints.
This is not the flex they think it is. It’s not that fetch quests suck, it’s how they’re presented.
Ubisoft sucks at it. Grab 100 feathers. Climb all 20 towers. It’s mechanical in its delivery and the payoff is often stupid like a bump to your stats.
But look at Zelda. Find all 8 triforce pieces. Or Dark Souls. Get the two halves of the elevator medallion. The journey feels real. Even Skyrim’s optional fetch quest - collect all the dragon masks, the delivery is amazing.
And in a role playing game, hanging out and enjoying the world has its benefits.
“People were complaining that I sent them to fetch me a sandwich every five minutes, so we listened to their complaints and next game, the player character will have no legs and thus not be able to move anymore.”
I just started DA:I again and am indeed collecting shards in the Hinterlands. But it feels OK, so far. I have so many memories of that game, with the first playthrough clocking in at about 100 hours. I like being able to run around and discover stuff and with the influence score it feels like progress. But I’ll still give Veilguard a chance.
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That’s probably because of how Shakey inquisition was with it, and then how much of a flip Andromeda was, which admittedly I still liked. Me2 and 3 were mission focused and are 2 of my favorite games of all time
I would prefer an open world actually.
At least you can go back to previous areas
I kind of hate the thing in games where it’s like “you didn’t look in the second bathroom so you didn’t get the staff of mega fireballs. No, you can’t go back to the house. It’s still there but you can’t go in.”.
That and the common “no matter what the game says, do the quest objective last because that might move you past something important” thing.
Playing Mass Effect 2 and there’s a lot of “go fight them and save the day!” And I’m like hold on I need to check every corner for upgrades real quick.
Iirc,mass effect lets you buy anything you miss in a store later, at least
Only the third game does that, I’m pretty sure. It’s not a terrible solution, though it can be annoying when money is finite.
Cool, maybe rpgs aren’t for you. Exploration, change and discovery is half the point. If you want to automatically get all the best loot because you went to a required place and did the required thing maybe you don’t want an rpg maybe you just want a story game. That’s fine, but DA was supposed to a BG spiritual successor once upon a time.
What an extraordinarily bad take.
RPGs are not required to have loot, so that line is just nonsense.
Baldur’s gate 1 and 2, for the bulk of it, let you revisit previous areas.
“Explore it all in one shot” is not the only kind of exploration.
Even BG3 let’s you go back with some exceptions.
What exactly is the “role” one is playing here? Diviner? Psychic reading the game dev’s mind?
FOMO - the game
We definitely need more linear RPGs
I dunno about that.
Just make it a narrative action game then.
If I see a game with a massive inventory, a bunch of stats, and killing monsters with my sword increases my sword speciality by 1… I’m going to have a lot of other expectations.
Edit: I love the downvote because you disagree. Reply why. Don’t be like reddit.
I get why people are cautious about BioWare’s next entry, but this game’s showcase is being nitpicked to oblivion. Why are you guys so pessimistic?
Experience and memory, mostly.
You’ll be picking up blue sparkles like in jrpgs instead
No, it’ll be running THAT cave from DA2 over and over, but this time in different colours!
I’m a little torn on this, because I loved the Hinterlands. It was every other map I started to hate. If it was just one open world section I think I would like it more
I also love the Hinterlands, but you and I are in the vast minority based on the initial feedback to Inquisition. It was super common to hear “just push past the Hinterlands, it’s so much better afterwards”. Even more generally, I’ve been hearing “why are all the devs making all their games open world for no reason?”
I’m also an open-world junkie because I love exploration. I’m saddened by this design choice, but I do completely understand where it comes from. It can still be done well and I love the lore of Thedas, so I’ll be there to see, I guess.
I think the real issue is the large, typically procedurally generated, open worlds that feel empty. Even BOTW lacks a lot of substance to the world they built (villages feel smaller and less important, little/no ovwrworld secrets, etc.). I think games like God of War did a good job of openish worlds with some exploration, but still crafted.
There’s nuance in it, for certain, but there is a large contingent of people who play games that find most open worlds boring. I love a big open world, even a lot of the procedurally-generated ones are fine with me when it’s done correctly (looking at you, Starfield 😒). There are myriad options in between there, where it sounds like you might fall as well.
The key is, as you say, making the world in such a way that it drives the core gameplay loop. This is such a bizarre example, but I just played Animal Well recently and I think it’s actually a fantastic example of this. Every area of this large map that you retread over and over again has hidden, intentional elements that clearly drive at the core gameplay loop of “discover secrets everywhere”. It’s also a 7 year passion project not likely to be replicated. I do think though that the lessons can be learned and applied on less intense projects.
Sit down, consider your loop. Why is the player here, having fun with your game? Is it to discover secrets? Hide secrets everywhere. Is it to drive around in a souped up car? Add more space and interesting driving conditions. Is it to kill big enemies? Add huge roaming bosses. I think after that focus is determined, then you should shrink it as much as possible while still fitting into your design constraints.
This is all layman’s conjecture though.
This is not the flex they think it is. It’s not that fetch quests suck, it’s how they’re presented.
Ubisoft sucks at it. Grab 100 feathers. Climb all 20 towers. It’s mechanical in its delivery and the payoff is often stupid like a bump to your stats.
But look at Zelda. Find all 8 triforce pieces. Or Dark Souls. Get the two halves of the elevator medallion. The journey feels real. Even Skyrim’s optional fetch quest - collect all the dragon masks, the delivery is amazing.
And in a role playing game, hanging out and enjoying the world has its benefits.
“People were complaining that I sent them to fetch me a sandwich every five minutes, so we listened to their complaints and next game, the player character will have no legs and thus not be able to move anymore.”
Ex fucking zactly.
I just started DA:I again and am indeed collecting shards in the Hinterlands. But it feels OK, so far. I have so many memories of that game, with the first playthrough clocking in at about 100 hours. I like being able to run around and discover stuff and with the influence score it feels like progress. But I’ll still give Veilguard a chance.
I don’t think they are “flexing” in that way, they are just saying that they are moving away from their last game’s formula