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What do they want Valve to do? It’s security vs convenience. If they added 2 factor authentication and removed F2P it would fix the issue while also pissing fans off.
Honestly? I suspect that a big contributing factor to the bot problem is that there are some items that can be sold for real life money. A simple change to greatly reduce the bot problem is to eliminate this market and let the game be a game.
But obviously Valve is not going to kill the golden goose. And honestly, I’m pretty sure a big chunk of the people playing the game will also get mad if Valve moves this way. After all, someone is buying all these dumb items. So nothing will be fixed here hahaha. Or probably they will just implement a temporal fix like yet another stupid DRM and call it a day.
play bot? I’m not quite sure what you mean, but ya all sorts of bots are flooding TF2. There are the normal aim-bots, but they also spam noise makers, voice chat, and text chat. They will also try and vote kick and normal player.
Maybe a “play bot” is like, when you run the practice mode the game pits you against bots instead of real players. I’ve seen cases of older games starting to spawn in bots like that so that the few remaining players don’t realize how empty all the servers are.
Then there’s cheat bots which…I’m not sure why people do that?
TF2 is in a near unplayable state. Valve has neglected it and as a result it’s not hard for people to bypass the anti-cheat. This has resulted in bots overtaking the game. This has been a problem for years, but there have been some recent pushes to get Valve’s attention. First was #savetf2 which resulted in Valve tweeting that the “heard us” and had things planned. Well nothing happened and now we’re trying again. #fixtf2 is the newest push and has come with extra steps from the community. Many people, including myself, have switched our reviews of TF2 to negative to hopefully get Valve’s attention.
I re-installed (I have about 500 hours total) and joined for a game for the first time in years (so I’m level 0, whatever that means; I guess that was added after I quit) and had a blast. Not sure if it’s only in the higher levels or because of region (I’m based in Japan). Only had time for one game on a quick work break, so not enough sample size .
That seems malicious, never attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence. Valve’s non-standard employee structure means nobody has to work on TF2. There are a lot of other fun things to work on at Valve, not some decades old game that doesn’t make a ton (relative) of money anymore. This is probably the biggest flaw of Valve.
They don’t really work on things that have already been done, but not the way Apple does it. HF3 will never happen, if it does you bet it won’t be the same medium. (think Alyx)
It’s not that VAC is now trivial to bypass, it always was and is kind of by design. VAC is not an active adaptive anti-cheat, it literally just checks for predefined parameters and if anything trips then you’re flagged and will later be banned.
What happened here was that a source-code leak of the original 2007 TF2 revealed an exploit that allows clients to run in a no-graphics mode that still works on modern TF2. Someone found out that you can program a script to interact with the no-graphics client and make it do stuff like join public server queues and interact with the game world. So they made it run around headshotting people. Since the client is running without graphics, it’s very trivial to run tens if not hundreds of these from cheap machines.
I also want to give some insight because I see a lot of people wondering why the fuck they’re doing this at all but it’s actually very simple. It’s the thrill of the cat-and-mouse game and they’ve been winning it for years. I’ve developed cheats (in cooperation with the developers, it was a whole thing) and I understand it. There’s an element of fun to the puzzle game of trying to work around systems deliberately put in place to stop you. That’s all there is to it, they’re just enjoying this chase. A lot of them definitely also enjoy ruining fun but that’s not the primary motivator.
I’m guessing what they mean is: If the fun of making the bots is just chasing the thrill of “cracking the puzzle”, why not create a bot just to prove you can, then shut it down afterwards?
And to that I assume the only answer is “because people are dickheads”
Yeah exactly. I’m calling BS that the thrill of the chase is the main motivator. Maybe it is for a handful, but for the most part people just like to be dickheads.
I don’t think most cheats are just for the fun of the game. Most cheats get developed to sell to the huge Asian markets of cheaters. It’s fairly normalized in China and somewhat Japan to cheat in games. And then they get sold to everyone else as well.
Then after the cheats are sold, TF2 and CS2 become vulnerable to bots and idling. Many of the drops you get in those games can be sold, often for a very low price but multiplied by a thousand, it’s worth it for cheaters. And valve doesn’t much care so long as their game reviews are positive because it inflates the player counts of the games and also they can ban the accounts, take away items, and then the cheaters will spend more to get them back on a new account.
Community in question has been eduring this for at least 4 years now. Id wager to say that taking matters into their own hands via activism and demanding change with whatever methods they can is a very good look actually.
Community in question has been eduring this for at least 4 years now.
Where were the negative TF2 reviews in the last 4 years then? Give TF2 a bad score, don’t rate other games badly, just because “the community” was complacent until now.
I’ve read that but the quality of Dota or Couter-Strike is unrelated to the quality of TF2. Review bombing those is stupid. Give TF2 a bad score. That’s fine because it’s about the quality of TF2. Give Dota and CS a bad score when those games suck.
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What do they want Valve to do? It’s security vs convenience. If they added 2 factor authentication and removed F2P it would fix the issue while also pissing fans off.
Honestly? I suspect that a big contributing factor to the bot problem is that there are some items that can be sold for real life money. A simple change to greatly reduce the bot problem is to eliminate this market and let the game be a game.
But obviously Valve is not going to kill the golden goose. And honestly, I’m pretty sure a big chunk of the people playing the game will also get mad if Valve moves this way. After all, someone is buying all these dumb items. So nothing will be fixed here hahaha. Or probably they will just implement a temporal fix like yet another stupid DRM and call it a day.
When they went F2P it pissed off fans. Any change will piss off fans.
There should be servers that only permit paid accounts and/or accounts over a certain age.
It’s unplayable in its current form. That’s not convenient.
Out of loop. What happen?
It’s been steadily overrun by bots, and I guess the community hit a breaking point
That suck. Nobody like bots.
Bot like cheat bot or bot like play bot?
play bot? I’m not quite sure what you mean, but ya all sorts of bots are flooding TF2. There are the normal aim-bots, but they also spam noise makers, voice chat, and text chat. They will also try and vote kick and normal player.
I see, thank you.
Maybe a “play bot” is like, when you run the practice mode the game pits you against bots instead of real players. I’ve seen cases of older games starting to spawn in bots like that so that the few remaining players don’t realize how empty all the servers are.
Then there’s cheat bots which…I’m not sure why people do that?
TF2 is in a near unplayable state. Valve has neglected it and as a result it’s not hard for people to bypass the anti-cheat. This has resulted in bots overtaking the game. This has been a problem for years, but there have been some recent pushes to get Valve’s attention. First was #savetf2 which resulted in Valve tweeting that the “heard us” and had things planned. Well nothing happened and now we’re trying again. #fixtf2 is the newest push and has come with extra steps from the community. Many people, including myself, have switched our reviews of TF2 to negative to hopefully get Valve’s attention.
I re-installed (I have about 500 hours total) and joined for a game for the first time in years (so I’m level 0, whatever that means; I guess that was added after I quit) and had a blast. Not sure if it’s only in the higher levels or because of region (I’m based in Japan). Only had time for one game on a quick work break, so not enough sample size .
Valve is probably ignoring TF2 so that fans switch to deadlock which is tf2-overwatch-dota2 adjacent.
That seems malicious, never attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence. Valve’s non-standard employee structure means nobody has to work on TF2. There are a lot of other fun things to work on at Valve, not some decades old game that doesn’t make a ton (relative) of money anymore. This is probably the biggest flaw of Valve.
They’re probably all too busy working on Half Life 3
They don’t really work on things that have already been done, but not the way Apple does it. HF3 will never happen, if it does you bet it won’t be the same medium. (think Alyx)
Half Life 3 will be the debut game for direct neural connections. You will be Gordon Freeman.
It’s not that VAC is now trivial to bypass, it always was and is kind of by design. VAC is not an active adaptive anti-cheat, it literally just checks for predefined parameters and if anything trips then you’re flagged and will later be banned.
What happened here was that a source-code leak of the original 2007 TF2 revealed an exploit that allows clients to run in a no-graphics mode that still works on modern TF2. Someone found out that you can program a script to interact with the no-graphics client and make it do stuff like join public server queues and interact with the game world. So they made it run around headshotting people. Since the client is running without graphics, it’s very trivial to run tens if not hundreds of these from cheap machines.
I also want to give some insight because I see a lot of people wondering why the fuck they’re doing this at all but it’s actually very simple. It’s the thrill of the cat-and-mouse game and they’ve been winning it for years. I’ve developed cheats (in cooperation with the developers, it was a whole thing) and I understand it. There’s an element of fun to the puzzle game of trying to work around systems deliberately put in place to stop you. That’s all there is to it, they’re just enjoying this chase. A lot of them definitely also enjoy ruining fun but that’s not the primary motivator.
Then why not prove you can do it and then shut the bot down?
Prove I can do what?
I’m guessing what they mean is: If the fun of making the bots is just chasing the thrill of “cracking the puzzle”, why not create a bot just to prove you can, then shut it down afterwards?
And to that I assume the only answer is “because people are dickheads”
Yeah exactly. I’m calling BS that the thrill of the chase is the main motivator. Maybe it is for a handful, but for the most part people just like to be dickheads.
I don’t think most cheats are just for the fun of the game. Most cheats get developed to sell to the huge Asian markets of cheaters. It’s fairly normalized in China and somewhat Japan to cheat in games. And then they get sold to everyone else as well.
Then after the cheats are sold, TF2 and CS2 become vulnerable to bots and idling. Many of the drops you get in those games can be sold, often for a very low price but multiplied by a thousand, it’s worth it for cheaters. And valve doesn’t much care so long as their game reviews are positive because it inflates the player counts of the games and also they can ban the accounts, take away items, and then the cheaters will spend more to get them back on a new account.
I am talking strictly of in-game spinbots, catbots, omegatronics and the rest, whatever their names are, not cheats as a whole.
Now they’ve moved to review-bombing other Valve games since Valve isn’t listening.
Not a great look for the community.
Not a great look for valve either
No surprise what so ever
Community in question has been eduring this for at least 4 years now. Id wager to say that taking matters into their own hands via activism and demanding change with whatever methods they can is a very good look actually.
It’s. A. Video. Game.
So?
Start small to practice civil disobedience so you have the backbone to do it when it matters also.
Most people are very weak. They never go against the crowd even once.
Leaving shitty reviews, is practicing civil disobedience?
Fuckin aye. Fight the Power , you fucking shuttin.
My union is doing this kind of thing right now. Start small and creep the action towards disobedience to keep people engaged and willing.
How do you fight the power? Do you ever, actually?
I’m sure you are out doing something then. :) Good thing you are not just a rude teenager… :)
Where were the negative TF2 reviews in the last 4 years then? Give TF2 a bad score, don’t rate other games badly, just because “the community” was complacent until now.
What other options do they have? This is like complaining abut people striking, when it’s the only way for them to get a decent salary.
Sometimes we need to make things difficult to get listened to in life.
Review-bombing other games is valid when TF2 is broken?
Other valve games
I’ve read that but the quality of Dota or Couter-Strike is unrelated to the quality of TF2. Review bombing those is stupid. Give TF2 a bad score. That’s fine because it’s about the quality of TF2. Give Dota and CS a bad score when those games suck.
If Valve is ignoring TF2, only way to get satisfaction is to review bomb the games Valve does care about.