Innovation and privacy go hand in hand here at Mozilla. To continue developing features and products that resonate with our users, we’re adopting a new a
I’m on the “OK but keep an eye on it” train, here.
Devs need feedback to know how people are using the product, and opt-out tracking is the best way to do it. In this case, it seems like my personal data is completely unidentifiable.
I was coding in the IE6 era, so I’d really prefer to not end up in a browser engine monoculture again.
Here’s the current list of categories we’re using: animals, arts, autos, business, career, education, fashion, finance, food, government, health, hobbies, home, inconclusive, news, real estate, society, sports, tech and travel.
Yes but we really should be grateful to have a somewhat mainstream open-source browser with a great ecosystem of extensions and ability to turn off the telemetry. It could’ve been much worse
Chromium is pretty good too but usually it’s not recommended to support because nobody wants its engine to become an absolute monopoly and make all major websites in the world broken on any other one. Though nobody wants Firefox’s engine to become an absolute monopoly too so it’s nice that Chromium exists
Why do you need unwilling representing numbers in the first place? Just ask advanced users on the official forum about what they want to see added. You only really need error logs that are absolutely opt-in
The number of people who actually change their default settings is quite small. Those of us who have these discussions are a distinct minority in the sum userbase.
There are definitely 2 kinds of people commenting this post. The first one who supports telemetry (and Big Tech) and another one that supports freedom and opt-in. This is interesting to see on something like Lemmy. I think the ones who support telemetry are devs and it is a little bit concerning to me
This isn’t even telemetry, it’s data collection for AI. That they refused to say that let’s you know that they think what they’re doing needs to be obfuscated.
In life, people will frequently say things to you that won’t be the whole truth, but you can figure out what’s actually going on by looking at the context of the situation. This is commonly referred to as “being deceptive” or sometimes just “lying”. Corporate PR and salespeople, the ones who put out this press release, do it regularly.
You don’t need to record content categories of searches to make a good tool for displaying websites, you need it to perform predictions about what users will search for. They’ve already said they wanted to focus on AI and linked to an example of the system they want to improve, it’s their site recommender, complete with sponsored recommendations that could be sold for a higher price if the Mozilla AI could predict that “people in country X will soon be looking for vacations”.
No one supports telemetry. People support Mozilla, because they are the maintainers of the last standard respecting, open source and independent browse engine.
That’s pretty important as Microsoft and Google etc are trying to take possession of the internet for themselves .
Remember, you can always opt out of sending any technical or usage data to Firefox. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to adjust your settings. We also don’t collect category data when you use Private Browsing mode on Firefox.
All we want is 1990s Google, guys. That’s really all we want. None of this AI BS that kind find a country in Africa that starts with a K, just Google without the evil enshitification layer on top.
I switched from Alta Vista at Google in the early 2000s because the Alta Vista index was stale and full of spam. Google search tools were comparatively primitive (av let you do things like word stem search) but the results were really good.
I feel like you had to learn how to use it, operators and phrasing etc. They dumbed it down with search suggestions and even further by changing search terms to synonyms, and now outright ignoring terms. Height of Internet search was definitely pre 2008. More like 2005.
If you had the right query, yes. But getting there if you didn’t know the exact words in the website used to take a number of attempts and google-fu. By early 2010s this was vastly improved.
As much as I hate to say it, Firefox is a privacy mess.
Pocket and Fakespot have very bad privacy policies. The Windows version has a unique Mozilla tracker if you download the installer from the website, and the android version has Google Analytics built in. The existing and new telemetry is a but heavy, but it’s anonymised so it’s really the lesser of the various evils.
My recommendation is LibreWolf & Fennec as alternatives.
Importantly, if you have already opted out of sending data to Mozilla, this change will not affect you. It only sends data if you have the setting turned on. It takes just a few clicks to entirely disable it, and Mozilla deletes all record of your browser within 30 days from turning off this feature. If you’re worried about it, do it now, it’s just under Settings > Privacy & Security. Instructions are also linked in the blog post.
I’m not a fan of the telemetry being enabled by default but having the option to completely disable it makes it not that bad. Though Mozilla definitely doesn’t need search history data (unless the law enforcements told them to collect it) so this change is kinda sus
From what I read in their blog post, nobody is keeping your search history data. It only tracks how often people in general search for things in specific categories, so nobody will be able to learn anything about you specifically from that data.
Then what’s the point in collecting such data? It won’t help to fix bugs, add new features or even make useful statistics to show publicly. Only personalized ads is what comes to mind. Yes it seems to be anonymized well enough but still ad companies love such data. Maybe Mozilla wants to implement a custom ads functionality that uses this data or they just want to sell it idk. Still changes in this direction are kinda sus
I believe there was an experiment making weather data more accessible through the URL bar, e.g. when people start searching for weather there, which could be useful. Presumably, telemetry like this can help determine which of such features to prioritise.
I could indeed also imagine ads, but then not based on keeping a file on you with all your interests and sharing that with advertisers, but by locally choosing between a couple of categories of ads and showing the ones that are related to your current search, without anyone having to know what you’re actually searching for.
Mozilla Foundation has a wholly owned subsidiary that is Mozilla Corporation that is for-profit.
For instance the revenue from Google, so they’re the default search engine, is seen by Mozilla Corporation. So things search-related will indeed be part of their for-profit arm.
It’s not a loophole. As a subsidiary, profits are still invested into the nonprofit and they’re still guided by the Mozilla manifesto. It just lets them do more and raise more funds which would be difficult to do with nonprofit status (selling default search engine for instance). Here’s their original press release when they incorporated Mozilla Corporation in 2005.
A non-profit can, in fact, profit, but it has specific rules on what it can do with those profits. Tax law is a rabbit hole and I don’t even wanna peer in
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I’m on the “OK but keep an eye on it” train, here.
Devs need feedback to know how people are using the product, and opt-out tracking is the best way to do it. In this case, it seems like my personal data is completely unidentifiable.
I was coding in the IE6 era, so I’d really prefer to not end up in a browser engine monoculture again.
I don’t need freaking suggestions from the browser, that’s the job of the search engine of my choice.
most search engines don’t keep anonymous search data so that’s what firefox is trying to fix.
You’re right, i tend to forget the majority uses Google as the default
I want freaking suggestions from the browser though, in a way that respects my privacy
Maybe switch to a search engine respecting it.
I use Kagi and DuckDuckGo, but some users may still be on Google.
So you gain nothing.
I like that the option is there, don’t be an elitist.
No pr0n?
Inconclusive = pr0n is probably a pretty reliable mapping.
Will this affect libre wolf?
Nope, they cut all the Mozilla stuff out
i know they’re a company and they need to float, but this should be opt in not opt out
Yes but we really should be grateful to have a somewhat mainstream open-source browser with a great ecosystem of extensions and ability to turn off the telemetry. It could’ve been much worse
I see no problem with this logic.
Anti Commercial-AI license
removed by mod
Chromium is pretty good too but usually it’s not recommended to support because nobody wants its engine to become an absolute monopoly and make all major websites in the world broken on any other one. Though nobody wants Firefox’s engine to become an absolute monopoly too so it’s nice that Chromium exists
Opt-in telemetry is useless telemetry, they make it opt-out because its the only way to get representative numbers
Why do you need unwilling representing numbers in the first place? Just ask advanced users on the official forum about what they want to see added. You only really need error logs that are absolutely opt-in
The number of people who actually change their default settings is quite small. Those of us who have these discussions are a distinct minority in the sum userbase.
I used this fact a lot in arguments and I agree. What I’m saying is that it could be worse
And I agree with you.
I have not seen a single case where advanced users have the same opinions as the average one
“advanced users” on forums are rarely very representive of users as a whole.
There are definitely 2 kinds of people commenting this post. The first one who supports telemetry (and Big Tech) and another one that supports freedom and opt-in. This is interesting to see on something like Lemmy. I think the ones who support telemetry are devs and it is a little bit concerning to me
I support anonymous telemetry collected by a small non-profit that helps protect our freedom. Not big tech.
I am a dev and I do not support telemetry
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Same. If It’s to exist at all, it should be opt-in and explicit about what it’s doing.
This isn’t even telemetry, it’s data collection for AI. That they refused to say that let’s you know that they think what they’re doing needs to be obfuscated.
If they refused to say it how do you know its the case? Also how would the data described in the article be useful to an ai, genuine question.
In life, people will frequently say things to you that won’t be the whole truth, but you can figure out what’s actually going on by looking at the context of the situation. This is commonly referred to as “being deceptive” or sometimes just “lying”. Corporate PR and salespeople, the ones who put out this press release, do it regularly.
You don’t need to record content categories of searches to make a good tool for displaying websites, you need it to perform predictions about what users will search for. They’ve already said they wanted to focus on AI and linked to an example of the system they want to improve, it’s their site recommender, complete with sponsored recommendations that could be sold for a higher price if the Mozilla AI could predict that “people in country X will soon be looking for vacations”.
No one supports telemetry. People support Mozilla, because they are the maintainers of the last standard respecting, open source and independent browse engine.
That’s pretty important as Microsoft and Google etc are trying to take possession of the internet for themselves .
To disable it in about:config
browser.search.serpEventTelemetry.enabled = falsebrowser.search.serpEventTelemetryCategorization.enabled = falselike and subscribe!
Its exactly this kind of bullshit that firefox should not do…
sigh
All we want is 1990s Google, guys. That’s really all we want. None of this AI BS that kind find a country in Africa that starts with a K, just Google without the evil enshitification layer on top.
I think people forget how awful google pre ~2008 was. Not in terms of the bullshit they do nowadays, just in quality of results really.
I switched from Alta Vista at Google in the early 2000s because the Alta Vista index was stale and full of spam. Google search tools were comparatively primitive (av let you do things like word stem search) but the results were really good.
Huh. I used it pretty much since the start and I certainly don’t recall it being that bad? Like you got a lot of relevant content up front usually.
I feel like you had to learn how to use it, operators and phrasing etc. They dumbed it down with search suggestions and even further by changing search terms to synonyms, and now outright ignoring terms. Height of Internet search was definitely pre 2008. More like 2005.
If you had the right query, yes. But getting there if you didn’t know the exact words in the website used to take a number of attempts and google-fu. By early 2010s this was vastly improved.
As much as I hate to say it, Firefox is a privacy mess.
Pocket and Fakespot have very bad privacy policies. The Windows version has a unique Mozilla tracker if you download the installer from the website, and the android version has Google Analytics built in. The existing and new telemetry is a but heavy, but it’s anonymised so it’s really the lesser of the various evils.
My recommendation is LibreWolf & Fennec as alternatives.
Souds good to me overall, only if what they’re saying is true. If they deviate from it, I guess we’ll have to look for new browser.
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Importantly, if you have already opted out of sending data to Mozilla, this change will not affect you. It only sends data if you have the setting turned on. It takes just a few clicks to entirely disable it, and Mozilla deletes all record of your browser within 30 days from turning off this feature. If you’re worried about it, do it now, it’s just under Settings > Privacy & Security. Instructions are also linked in the blog post.
First thing I do on every Firefox installation on every device. 3 clicks and most of this nonsense stops.
I’d appreciate Mozilla not doing something like that in the first place, maybe don’t try to build products and focus on the browser. 🤷♂️
I’d just like for these things to be opt-in, not opt-out.
I’m not a fan of the telemetry being enabled by default but having the option to completely disable it makes it not that bad. Though Mozilla definitely doesn’t need search history data (unless the law enforcements told them to collect it) so this change is kinda sus
From what I read in their blog post, nobody is keeping your search history data. It only tracks how often people in general search for things in specific categories, so nobody will be able to learn anything about you specifically from that data.
Then what’s the point in collecting such data? It won’t help to fix bugs, add new features or even make useful statistics to show publicly. Only personalized ads is what comes to mind. Yes it seems to be anonymized well enough but still ad companies love such data. Maybe Mozilla wants to implement a custom ads functionality that uses this data or they just want to sell it idk. Still changes in this direction are kinda sus
I believe there was an experiment making weather data more accessible through the URL bar, e.g. when people start searching for
weatherthere, which could be useful. Presumably, telemetry like this can help determine which of such features to prioritise.I could indeed also imagine ads, but then not based on keeping a file on you with all your interests and sharing that with advertisers, but by locally choosing between a couple of categories of ads and showing the ones that are related to your current search, without anyone having to know what you’re actually searching for.
It seems like a profit-driven thing to me. Big piles of anonymized data are worth a pretty penny.
Enshitification hits every company, even Mozilla.
Unfortunately Mozilla is being run by a McKinsey consultant.
Mozilla famous non-profit status notwithstanding of course
Mozilla Foundation has a wholly owned subsidiary that is Mozilla Corporation that is for-profit.
For instance the revenue from Google, so they’re the default search engine, is seen by Mozilla Corporation. So things search-related will indeed be part of their for-profit arm.
I’d like to read more on that if you have anything. Seems like too big a loophole ?
It’s not a loophole. As a subsidiary, profits are still invested into the nonprofit and they’re still guided by the Mozilla manifesto. It just lets them do more and raise more funds which would be difficult to do with nonprofit status (selling default search engine for instance). Here’s their original press release when they incorporated Mozilla Corporation in 2005.
It’s technically for profit, but it has a single shareholder: the Foundation. There are no greedy shareholders that can get rich off of that profit.
Of course, employees/board members can be richly compensated, but that’s independent of for-/non-profit status.
A non-profit can, in fact, profit, but it has specific rules on what it can do with those profits. Tax law is a rabbit hole and I don’t even wanna peer in
Used to work for a non-profit retirement community in a pretty small area; the guy running the joint lived in a $3M “house” with a full 7 car garage.
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They should have put more emphasis on the possible usages for what they find out…