Sea of Stars was such a refreshing game. From the music, to the backgrounds, to the combat, it was like a love letter to 90’s RPGs. You only get that level of quality and love from indie games these days. Games from large companies just don’t have any soul anymore.
There’s a huge budget bloat, which means having to play ever safer to maximize your audience.
The reality is that only small games can afford to be gambles and actually have an identity and a soul.
Big budget games need to be works of incredible craftsmanship like the Arkham games to maintain a soul while being unimpeachable in execution, and you can’t just throw money at the skill problem.
You can however throw money at 10387 consulting firms to make sure you’re aiming for maximum palatability, and inevitably make homogenised pap for babies.
For instance: it’s really telling when even a game that should have been edgy as fuck like Suicide Squad had to lionize Wonder Woman, and only Wonder Woman, because apparently you can’t humiliate her and unceremoniously murder her alongside every other beloved Justice League member.
That is an example of the “incredible craftsmanship” I mentioned.
Id software knows what they’re doing, as much as you can hate zenimax/bethesda/Microsoft they do leave their subsidiary/partner studios alone to do their thing, mostly.
I get what he’s saying. Game music used to have a much bigger “job” in fleshing out the world that the game presented to you. I remember for example songs like Final Fantasy VII’s Gold Saucer, Chrono Cross’ Termina (Another World) that set the tone of the place you’re visiting: busy, active, crowded and festive. If you take the music out, you have a beautiful yet static, almost frozen landscape - it comes alive with the music. Nowadays the visuals can be so detailed, the worlds so big and busy that the music seems to be an afterthought: it’s just ambient music for the already immersive world of the game. And I believe that has lead to a lot of composers settling for just that: ambient music.
I think on Twitter I once messaged Gareth Coker, the composer for Ori and the Blind Forest, about how beautiful the music on that game is and how there’s a big emphasis on melodies. He replied that the studio specifically pushed for melody-heavy songs, rather than just ambient music that only complements the action. That makes a huge difference.
I would say that a lot of this has to do with survivor bias. Most of the shitty soundtracks were forgotten and buried. Only the really good ones had staying power. So it is easy to convince yourself that the past was so much better because you remember the good and a lot less of the absolute trash that existed back then and compare that cherry picked past to today’s mix of good and bad.
He’s right! Video game music has been absolutely mental since the start, whether Japanese arcade machines, the early 90s German demo scene, JRPGs, etc etc. Just getting a session orchestra in to riff on Holst and Wagner is boring.
No offence to Tetsuya Nomura, I love a lot of the titles he worked on, but he doesn’t have a single independent thought in him. Everything he makes feels like a remix of something else, like his entire legacy is loosely copying Hironobu Sakaguchi’s successes.
I still listen to the FF8 soundtrack daily. It’s absolutely beautiful! Most games these days have very forgettable music. I actually can’t remember most of it.
Part of the reason I enjoy games is for the soundtracks. Modern games that come to mind are Persona 5 and Nier Automata which has do much memorable music. The soundtrack creates an Identity. So many games feel like the sound team doesn’t care if I play my own music instead.
It’s not all bad; as far as I’m concerned Nier Automata had one of the greatest and most compelling soundtracks of all time. I still listen to it on a regular basis and am floored every single time.
Although there’s exceptions. I’m playing FF16 right now and the only piece of music I can play in my mind is the beginning of the "special-er“ battle music that’s that final fantasy battle music but reimagined on a big violin - meanwhile I can play the whole vs. Möbius track of XC3
Really depends. Orchestral pieces can fit certain games, or certain parts of a game. A set soundtrack with a few variations for changes of pace can work if it’s a good fit for the game in general.
If it’s a constant wall of music that’s not really well integrated, sure it can be a bit annoying, even if the music itself would be very good in isolation.
But on the contrary some games have adaptive music, and interestingly it’s a bit more like John Williams’ view on movie soundtracks : it’s made to adapt to what’s happening in real time. When it’s done right it’s everything but boring.
Yeah hard disagree with Nobuo on this one. I remember firing up Halo CE for the first time and being blown away by what I was hearing throughout the game, and to this day I can see a screenshot of that game and my brain immediately starts rocking out to that level’s sound track.
It can be utilized poorly for sure, but a videogame with a cinematic sound track done right goes straight to my favorites.
Halo’s opening theme on the OG Xbox is so iconic I guarantee you if you did the chants in public several random dudes (and even a few women) will join you. Iconic
In my experience lots of games go for this “generic movie-like” style, which sounds high production value, but where the composition is just unmemorable filler that says nothing.
Halo was great in this regard, so I don’t think that’s what he’s going for here. Hell, I’m instantly getting Halo ost playing in my head while writing this.
But on the contrary some games have adaptive music, and interestingly it’s a bit more like John Williams’ view on movie soundtracks : it’s made to adapt to what’s happening in real time. When it’s done right it’s everything but boring.
Elite: Dangerous does this extremely well (IMO it has some of the best sound designs out there, not only music but everything else, too, including the dynamic range). The music is never this generic bombastic horn sections, and it’s different in different environments and situations, always somberly haunting at the edge of consciousness and enhancing, not overpowering, the gameplay.
… I agree it’s great but it’s exactly what is criticized here. It’s the typical bombastic movie epic theme song. It would fit just as well into any Sci-Fi block buster. There is nothing about it that gives away that it’s for a game as opposed to a movie or tv-series.
Music is integral to build the game’s overall atmosphere. At least indie studios still get it: Look at Cuphead, Hollow Knight, Hades, Vampire Survivors, etc.
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Sea of Stars was such a refreshing game. From the music, to the backgrounds, to the combat, it was like a love letter to 90’s RPGs. You only get that level of quality and love from indie games these days. Games from large companies just don’t have any soul anymore.
They literally can’t afford to.
There’s a huge budget bloat, which means having to play ever safer to maximize your audience.
The reality is that only small games can afford to be gambles and actually have an identity and a soul.
Big budget games need to be works of incredible craftsmanship like the Arkham games to maintain a soul while being unimpeachable in execution, and you can’t just throw money at the skill problem.
You can however throw money at 10387 consulting firms to make sure you’re aiming for maximum palatability, and inevitably make homogenised pap for babies.
For instance: it’s really telling when even a game that should have been edgy as fuck like Suicide Squad had to lionize Wonder Woman, and only Wonder Woman, because apparently you can’t humiliate her and unceremoniously murder her alongside every other beloved Justice League member.
Counterpoint: Doom
That is an example of the “incredible craftsmanship” I mentioned.
Id software knows what they’re doing, as much as you can hate zenimax/bethesda/Microsoft they do leave their subsidiary/partner studios alone to do their thing, mostly.
I get what he’s saying. Game music used to have a much bigger “job” in fleshing out the world that the game presented to you. I remember for example songs like Final Fantasy VII’s Gold Saucer, Chrono Cross’ Termina (Another World) that set the tone of the place you’re visiting: busy, active, crowded and festive. If you take the music out, you have a beautiful yet static, almost frozen landscape - it comes alive with the music. Nowadays the visuals can be so detailed, the worlds so big and busy that the music seems to be an afterthought: it’s just ambient music for the already immersive world of the game. And I believe that has lead to a lot of composers settling for just that: ambient music.
I think on Twitter I once messaged Gareth Coker, the composer for Ori and the Blind Forest, about how beautiful the music on that game is and how there’s a big emphasis on melodies. He replied that the studio specifically pushed for melody-heavy songs, rather than just ambient music that only complements the action. That makes a huge difference.
This is a big reason why the new Zelda games just do nothing for me. Without Koji Kondo they’re just so… devoid of life and personality.
Conversely, the goofy coop shooter Helldivers 2 elevates the feeling you get playing the game with its over the top hero music.
I would say that a lot of this has to do with survivor bias. Most of the shitty soundtracks were forgotten and buried. Only the really good ones had staying power. So it is easy to convince yourself that the past was so much better because you remember the good and a lot less of the absolute trash that existed back then and compare that cherry picked past to today’s mix of good and bad.
He’s right! Video game music has been absolutely mental since the start, whether Japanese arcade machines, the early 90s German demo scene, JRPGs, etc etc. Just getting a session orchestra in to riff on Holst and Wagner is boring.
Most often it’s not even a real orchestra, but Vienna Symphonic Library.
He’s not wrong, but blandness is king in the AAA space.
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No offence to Tetsuya Nomura, I love a lot of the titles he worked on, but he doesn’t have a single independent thought in him. Everything he makes feels like a remix of something else, like his entire legacy is loosely copying Hironobu Sakaguchi’s successes.
Cmon, he put lots of belts and zippers on things and gave us the not at all convoluted plot of Kingdom Hearts, that’s gotta count for something
Just kidding, Nomura and his enablers are the worst thing to happen to JRPGs
Lulu was rocking, though. So happy for Wakka.
Absolutely. Final Fantasy 6 is so enjoyable, with the music being a big part.
He’s not wrong, Sony is a bit guilty of this; but Elden Ring soundtrack is goated.
Elden Ring had a soundtrack?! Now I need to play it again. I think I had the music volume off.
I still listen to the FF8 soundtrack daily. It’s absolutely beautiful! Most games these days have very forgettable music. I actually can’t remember most of it.
Part of the reason I enjoy games is for the soundtracks. Modern games that come to mind are Persona 5 and Nier Automata which has do much memorable music. The soundtrack creates an Identity. So many games feel like the sound team doesn’t care if I play my own music instead.
It’s not all bad; as far as I’m concerned Nier Automata had one of the greatest and most compelling soundtracks of all time. I still listen to it on a regular basis and am floored every single time.
Yeah but that music is definitely not movie like. It’s very unique.
Thank you!
Although there’s exceptions. I’m playing FF16 right now and the only piece of music I can play in my mind is the beginning of the "special-er“ battle music that’s that final fantasy battle music but reimagined on a big violin - meanwhile I can play the whole vs. Möbius track of XC3
I kind of agree that 16 isn’t my favorite even though it certainly had some moments. Soken’s FF14 OST is amazing though.
https://youtu.be/NHIkUzmNmc0
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/NHIkUzmNmc0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Really depends. Orchestral pieces can fit certain games, or certain parts of a game. A set soundtrack with a few variations for changes of pace can work if it’s a good fit for the game in general.
If it’s a constant wall of music that’s not really well integrated, sure it can be a bit annoying, even if the music itself would be very good in isolation.
But on the contrary some games have adaptive music, and interestingly it’s a bit more like John Williams’ view on movie soundtracks : it’s made to adapt to what’s happening in real time. When it’s done right it’s everything but boring.
Yeah hard disagree with Nobuo on this one. I remember firing up Halo CE for the first time and being blown away by what I was hearing throughout the game, and to this day I can see a screenshot of that game and my brain immediately starts rocking out to that level’s sound track.
It can be utilized poorly for sure, but a videogame with a cinematic sound track done right goes straight to my favorites.
Halo’s opening theme on the OG Xbox is so iconic I guarantee you if you did the chants in public several random dudes (and even a few women) will join you. Iconic
In my experience lots of games go for this “generic movie-like” style, which sounds high production value, but where the composition is just unmemorable filler that says nothing.
Halo was great in this regard, so I don’t think that’s what he’s going for here. Hell, I’m instantly getting Halo ost playing in my head while writing this.
Elite: Dangerous does this extremely well (IMO it has some of the best sound designs out there, not only music but everything else, too, including the dynamic range). The music is never this generic bombastic horn sections, and it’s different in different environments and situations, always somberly haunting at the edge of consciousness and enhancing, not overpowering, the gameplay.
What’s that? Sorry friend, I couldn’t hear you over An der schönen blauen Donau playing while the AI auto docks the ship.
Completely agree. A movie style soundtrack has it’s place if used correctly.
Yet another thing I love about Helldivers 2. The sound track is fantastic.
Dropping into the mission
Just the song: A cup of Liber-Tea - Wilbert Roget, II
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Dropping into the mission
A cup of Liber-Tea - Wilbert Roget, II
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
… I agree it’s great but it’s exactly what is criticized here. It’s the typical bombastic movie epic theme song. It would fit just as well into any Sci-Fi block buster. There is nothing about it that gives away that it’s for a game as opposed to a movie or tv-series.
Music is integral to build the game’s overall atmosphere. At least indie studios still get it: Look at Cuphead, Hollow Knight, Hades, Vampire Survivors, etc.