You should look up what the word “fraud” means in a legal context.
You would have an incredibly, overwhelmingly difficult tike attempting to prove that in court at this moment.
Fraud requires intentional deception and requires you to have lost something. This is a proactive action to prevent misunderstanding and from you purchasing something that won’t work, and refunds your purchase. The loss, and the intent, are both missing.
It sounds to me like you are talking about what Steam is doing, with the geolocking and refunds (not fraud), while the other person is talking about what Sony is doing, with adding PSN requirements after the fact (maybe fraud?).
I entered into an agreement with a car manufacturer to be able to sell their cars in the UK. After I had people place orders (and pay) for a bunch of them the manufacturer decided that they were no longer supplying cars to the UK. Forcing me to issue my customers with refunds.
Fraud exists because you were driving the car for a while with your normal drivers license and everything was perfectly fine, but now (for example) Elon says you have to get a specialized additional Tesla certification license from Tesla, but only offers it to countries whose names start with vowels because he was on a ketamine bender one night.
It’s a retroactive, unilateral change to a contract, which is generally considered legally questionable at the very least. And - you guessed it - possibly fraud.
There is a big difference between cancelling an order and taking away a product that you have been using.
I don’t agree with Sony’s actions as everyone should be able to buy the game but this is Sony cancelling an order as the game isn’t even out yet on PC.
It’s now a pattern and practice, though. HD2 could have been a fluke. But this now indicates that they’re probably going to do something similar with all of their current-gen games. THAT is the point people are becoming furious with.
That was obvious though. There was articles last week saying that Ghost of Tsushima wouldn’t remove the PSN requirement. It is also listed above the buy button (although that could be recent).
It was pretty clear from their response to HD2 that they would try again. Sure they shouldn’t have been selling preorders in countries that don’t have PSN access but it isn’t really surprising that they are enforcing it here.
I haven’t been following this, but if I understand, all this flows from Sony’s decision to (a) disallow developers targeting their platform from selling the game in regions that PSN isn’t available, even on other platforms, like Steam, and (b) not to offer PSN service in the Baltics. I’m not actually sure that it’s legal for Sony to do this.
I don’t think that that’d be fraud – as some people are talking about – but I do know that the EU has had some digital single market legislation that doesn’t let you buy something in part of the EU if you can’t use it in another part. I think that their interest is that they don’t want to have companies creating barriers to movement of labor around the EU, where someone can’t move from EU member A to B because it makes all their digital products unusable. If you cannot play a game in the Baltics, I’m not sure that it’s legal to sell it, under EU law, in France or the like.
It might also be legal – not sure. Probably depends on how it’s structured, what exactly Sony is doing, and the specifics of the European Digital Single Market restrictions. And I’m not familiar with the fine points of any of those.
It would be an interesting issue to resolve if the EU were to pursue it. I guess one could argue that PS5s are sold in the EU, even with the PSN restriction in certain regions. I’d guess a resolution to this would have Sony remove all of their content on Steam, which I consider a negative for gaming in-general.
I’m guessing there is, or will be, a carve out for this type of thing. Precedent could be argued with my PS5 example above.
The idea is to encourage the opposite. If they want access to furnace, Germany, Italy, they need to make it available in smaller countries. It becomes financially viable to cater to small countries when not doing so loses the big countries.
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What a complete clusterfuck.
I thought you only needed a PSN account for the multiplayer portion of the game?
Yes, which is why Steam is issuing refunds
As somebody who played GoT a while back, it has a multiplayer mode?
The SP launched in July 2020 with the MP mode arriving in October that year.
Steam should have done that with hell divers 2 f om day 1.
It hadn’t been made a clear requirement at that stage
It was. It was even in the description already
Evidently it was not clear enough.
Or Valve didn’t check every last little detail and expected the publisher to take care of it, until it became a big controversy.
– assuming it is, in fact, Valve who is behind this change and not Sony themselves.
You answered it yourself. Valve did not adequately check
That would require Valve to be the reason behind this change, and reading every description for every game is something I doubt they do.
Clearly this is the responsibility of the publisher.
I think valve should consider banning sony from their platform. They seem to have a habit of fraudulent business practices.
Go on?
I attempted to sell you a car in the UK. I realize I’m unable to and issue a refund.
Fraud exists where?
“i realize i just dont want because i geolocked my shit after you bought it, breaking contracts with fraudulent intend”
You should look up what the word “fraud” means in a legal context.
You would have an incredibly, overwhelmingly difficult tike attempting to prove that in court at this moment.
Fraud requires intentional deception and requires you to have lost something. This is a proactive action to prevent misunderstanding and from you purchasing something that won’t work, and refunds your purchase. The loss, and the intent, are both missing.
This is categorically not fraud.
It sounds to me like you are talking about what Steam is doing, with the geolocking and refunds (not fraud), while the other person is talking about what Sony is doing, with adding PSN requirements after the fact (maybe fraud?).
According to German law it is fraud so it probably is in the entire EU.
More like I pay you for water in my house and midway in you decided to add berry flavor.
Great, now my spaghetti taste like berry, and I didn’t agree to that.
Now I kind of want to try berry spaghetti.
No you don’t.
And when you don’t you gotta give me a run down :)
There are dessert pasta dishes.
googles
https://www.agourmetfoodblog.com/sweet-pasta-dessert-with-strawberry-sauce/
Here’s one with a strawberry sauce. If you can do strawberry sauce, I’m pretty sure that berries would also work in the pasta itself.
It might reduce the structural strength of the pasta, but I figure that you can probably just use a larger pasta if need be.
This is why we need pasta with structural integrity field generators on every noodle.
I entered into an agreement with a car manufacturer to be able to sell their cars in the UK. After I had people place orders (and pay) for a bunch of them the manufacturer decided that they were no longer supplying cars to the UK. Forcing me to issue my customers with refunds.
Fraud exists because you were driving the car for a while with your normal drivers license and everything was perfectly fine, but now (for example) Elon says you have to get a specialized additional Tesla certification license from Tesla, but only offers it to countries whose names start with vowels because he was on a ketamine bender one night.
It’s a retroactive, unilateral change to a contract, which is generally considered legally questionable at the very least. And - you guessed it - possibly fraud.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the game isn’t out yet on PC so no one has been playing (driving) the game.
You’re being pedantic and you know it.
There is a big difference between cancelling an order and taking away a product that you have been using.
I don’t agree with Sony’s actions as everyone should be able to buy the game but this is Sony cancelling an order as the game isn’t even out yet on PC.
It’s now a pattern and practice, though. HD2 could have been a fluke. But this now indicates that they’re probably going to do something similar with all of their current-gen games. THAT is the point people are becoming furious with.
That was obvious though. There was articles last week saying that Ghost of Tsushima wouldn’t remove the PSN requirement. It is also listed above the buy button (although that could be recent).
It was pretty clear from their response to HD2 that they would try again. Sure they shouldn’t have been selling preorders in countries that don’t have PSN access but it isn’t really surprising that they are enforcing it here.
Please not. I don’t want Sony to retreat entirely from the pc market (and they most likely will do it if they are not on Steam anymore).
I hope they do and fall nose first into shit.
Stolen fron c/source_memes
What is this business strategy called?
Not being publicly/private equity owned
deleted by creator
Hmm.
I haven’t been following this, but if I understand, all this flows from Sony’s decision to (a) disallow developers targeting their platform from selling the game in regions that PSN isn’t available, even on other platforms, like Steam, and (b) not to offer PSN service in the Baltics. I’m not actually sure that it’s legal for Sony to do this.
I don’t think that that’d be fraud – as some people are talking about – but I do know that the EU has had some digital single market legislation that doesn’t let you buy something in part of the EU if you can’t use it in another part. I think that their interest is that they don’t want to have companies creating barriers to movement of labor around the EU, where someone can’t move from EU member A to B because it makes all their digital products unusable. If you cannot play a game in the Baltics, I’m not sure that it’s legal to sell it, under EU law, in France or the like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Single_Market
It might also be legal – not sure. Probably depends on how it’s structured, what exactly Sony is doing, and the specifics of the European Digital Single Market restrictions. And I’m not familiar with the fine points of any of those.
It would be an interesting issue to resolve if the EU were to pursue it. I guess one could argue that PS5s are sold in the EU, even with the PSN restriction in certain regions. I’d guess a resolution to this would have Sony remove all of their content on Steam, which I consider a negative for gaming in-general.
I’m guessing there is, or will be, a carve out for this type of thing. Precedent could be argued with my PS5 example above.
The idea is to encourage the opposite. If they want access to furnace, Germany, Italy, they need to make it available in smaller countries. It becomes financially viable to cater to small countries when not doing so loses the big countries.
DO I SEE THE FLAG OF ESTONIA?
So what Sony is saying is that I should just pirate the game since there is no legal way to buy it?
Noooo that would be stealing food right out of the developers’ mouths /s
Think of the poor corporations, man! Have you no soul?