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There’s no way this is gonna be optional. They’re not being picky about where they put AI, these companies are putting it everywhere. Nvidia GPU’s are going to do this to every game whether the player wants it or not, whether the developer asks it to or not.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. If someone is making some effort, you can’t condemn them for not going all the way, because going all the way is living in the wilderness without even metal tools.
You can very easily use and chew up the resources of what you opposed with very little effort and it’s incredibly beneficial to do so, but only take from that indecent system, don’t enable or add value to it.
I’d advise you to think of that next time you use any electronics or eat any meat products or chocolate or coffee, drive your car (if you have one).
… wear anything by most of the major clothes or trainer brands , buy anything from amazon or use any of their services, use google services or facebook or instagram or tiktok…or whatsapp.
If you want to argue about selective integrity and conviction , I’m willing to hear your position.
I wasn’t saying buying GPU’s is good, i was saying that the argument that they are optional is weak.
Buying new boosts sales metrics, incentives investors & management, and is blissful consumerism.
We should be boycotting all companies that we don’t agree with. And NVIDIA is a department of war contractor and American Regime mega donor.
If you actually need something, and it’s possible to need a GPU, then you can buy second hand from within your community. Try to buy as local as possible, look for things like surplus office equipment or at local repair shops.
In your example of a car, buying a used car is also better than buying a new car in many ways, especially since cars made before 2014 were not able to surveil you.
Boycott bad companies / practices, and stop consuming the latest slop they put in the trough.
That’s fair, it isn’t how i read it but i can see it’s importance now you’ve pointed it out.
We should be boycotting all companies that we don’t agree with. And NVIDIA is a department of war contractor and American Regime mega donor.
This is nice in theory but the practical application is difficult.
I can get into it, but it’s a common conversation i have on here, almost all of modern society is built on horrific shit, where is the line?
Is it first order disagreements like this NVIDIA boycott, or is it second order as well ? Meaning any company that willingly works with NVIDIA or explicitly buys new NVIDIA gpu’s ?
It’s not a trick question, I’m trying to gauge what you meant by that statement.
To be clear, i’m not saying to do nothing, i’m trying to figure out where your line is and why.
If you actually need something, and it’s possible to need a GPU, then you can buy second hand from within your community. Try to buy as local as possible, look for things like surplus office equipment or at local repair shops.
That’s fair, though i would add a caveat to say “where possible”
As a concrete example, GPU’s right now are ridiculous which means the secondhand market is tight, if your timeframe/need is also tight then it might not be possible to always do the “right thing™”.
In your example of a car, buying a used car is also better than buying a new car in many ways, especially since cars made before 2014 were not able to surveil you.
Agreed.
Why pick 2014, was there some regulatory requirement introduced then ?
Boycott bad companies / practices, and stop consuming the latest slop they put in the trough.
I think these are all good questions to ask ourselves.
Is it first order disagreements like this NVIDIA boycott, or is it second order as well ? Meaning any company that willingly works with NVIDIA or explicitly buys new NVIDIA gpu’s ?
It’s going to depend on your interest or ability to research. However, if one were to simply buy used items when possible, or choose a brand one thinks aligns with themselves after some research, I think that’s a good start.
GPU’s right now are ridiculous which means the secondhand market is tight, if your timeframe/need is also tight then it might not be possible to always do the “right thing™”.
If one thinks they might need compromise their morals, I think they should really consider their options. I’d rather pay full price for an old used GPU than give nvidia any money, but that’s my personal opinion.
Why pick 2014
I think this is just because car companies weren’t yet starting to surveil their drivers as part of a new revenue stream until 2014. You can read more about it.
Personally, I’ve removed myself from the American market about as much as I can while still living in the USA.
I’ve divested from American stocks.
I try to make/grow my own whenever possible, and rely on my local community more. I even started a community regenerative farm.
If I do think I need to buy something new, I try to either buy European, Japanese, or from a few other choice markets depending on the product, like South America for specialty wood and coffee direct from as small a manufacturer as possible.
It’s going to depend on your interest or ability to research. However, if one were to simply buy used items when possible, or choose a brand one thinks aligns with themselves after some research, I think that’s a good start.
Agreed.
Tony’s Chocolonely is a good example of this, it’s not that they are 100% there but they explain why certain decisions were made so i can decide for myself if it’s enough.
If one thinks they might need compromise their morals, I think they should really consider their options. I’d rather pay full price for an old used GPU than give nvidia any money, but that’s my personal opinion.
I do know what you mean, i’m just not 100% sure where the morals/ethics line is supposed to go.
I’m not amoral it just seems like people arbitrarily draw lines and they seem so certain.
I’m not sure where that certainty comes from, because i don’t have it.
I think this is just because car companies weren’t yet starting to surveil their drivers as part of a new revenue stream until 2014. You can read more about it.
interesting, thanks.
I don’t expect everyone to live like this, not everyone has the luxury. But I do hope people atleast try to not pay companies that harm them.
I kind of agree, but this is the kind of thing i mean, almost all companies harm them in some way, from business practices to supply chain, workforce, political donations, equipment purchases, environmental concerns.
I’m not a crazy person, i understand there is a difference between the local corner store buying a bigger truck than they need vs bezos draining whole water tables so he can buy another spaceship, it’s just how people pick the hills to die on in the middle that’s confusing to me.
I have something i use but it’s contextual and inconsistent and by no means gives me the kind of certainty i see in other people.
i’m just not 100% sure where the morals/ethics line is supposed to go.
I’m not amoral it just seems like people arbitrarily draw lines and they seem so certain.
You have to draw your own lines, ones that are important to you. You shouldn’t let others tell you where does lines are.
As Martin Luther King Jr said:
Ultimately you must do right because it’s right to do right. . . . You must do it because it has gripped you so much that you are willing to die for it if necessary. And I say to you this morning, that if you have never found something so dear and so precious to you that you will die for it, then you aren’t fit to live.
Ultimately you must do right because it’s right to do right. . . . You must do it because it has gripped you so much that you are willing to die for it if necessary. And I say to you this morning, that if you have never found something so dear and so precious to you that you will die for it, then you aren’t fit to live.
I’d add that “requirement” is relative. My city’s bus system has stops near enough to cover my home and work, so you could say a car is not required for the route. However, using the bus system would turn my 20 minute (10 minutes one way) daily commute into 3 hours. That’s just too impractical to consider.
It’s not that they’re going to force it, It’s just a numbers game. Right now because of AMD’s complete and utter incompetence in all aspects of the GPU market, Nvidia controls 95% of the market.
Developers are going to support the biggest bang for the buck here and implement DLSS 5, AI Slop because that’s what the market has and publishers are going to make them leverage all of DLSS 5 because shareholder value and doing more with less people.
End result, I agree though, is the same though, none of this shit will be optional, but for different reasons I think.
They’re using 2x5090 in the demo, this won’t even be slightly relevant until next gen cards, and given RAMpocalypse that’s ~2028.
Also, AMD on linux is fine, I’ve a 7080XT and it’s fine (at least 60+ usually 100+Hz) for 3440x1440 (~4Kish) on ultra with everything I’ve thrown at it (without ray trace though, and I haven’t played the real ballbusters yet, I’m patient). Which is not to say AMD hasn’t dropped the ball, kicked it out of bounds and then buried it with pricing and other competitiveness, but the hardware is capable and a way better linux experience.
I bought a new gaming laptop just before the rampocalypse started. It was impossible to find one with an AMD GPU where I live so I was pretty much forced to buy one with an Nvidia card. The CPU is AMD though, 'cause fuck Intel as well.
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There’s no way this is gonna be optional. They’re not being picky about where they put AI, these companies are putting it everywhere. Nvidia GPU’s are going to do this to every game whether the player wants it or not, whether the developer asks it to or not.
How so? They can‘t force you to checks notes buy two 5090s to run this crap. I mean have you seen hardware prices? There is no market for this.
Oh no you cant afford it? Ive got good news! You can play it on the cloud!
With a peripheral that takes quarters, and so the circle closes.
Of course not. The ones that cant upgrade are just forced to a new frame measuring scale, called FPM.
I prefer SPF, seconds per frame.
With an SPF of 45, you won’t get burned
At that level the sun is not anywhere near as big a concern as my risk of dying from boredrom while waiting for the next frame.
It’s optional to buy new gpus and games that require them.
It’s optional not to buy a car but it certainly limits your access to things.
God forbid going without if it doesn’t mean contributing to something shit. Or whatever integrity and conviction is.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. If someone is making some effort, you can’t condemn them for not going all the way, because going all the way is living in the wilderness without even metal tools.
You can very easily use and chew up the resources of what you opposed with very little effort and it’s incredibly beneficial to do so, but only take from that indecent system, don’t enable or add value to it.
I’d advise you to think of that next time you use any electronics or eat any meat products or chocolate or coffee, drive your car (if you have one).
… wear anything by most of the major clothes or trainer brands , buy anything from amazon or use any of their services, use google services or facebook or instagram or tiktok…or whatsapp.
If you want to argue about selective integrity and conviction , I’m willing to hear your position.
I wasn’t saying buying GPU’s is good, i was saying that the argument that they are optional is weak.
It’s not complete, but I have already removed some of those things you mentioned and others from my life for better or worse.
You know what, i applaud your efforts.
I suspect you’re doing a way better job of it than me, it’s way more difficult than a lot of people give it credit for.
New is the key word here.
Buying new boosts sales metrics, incentives investors & management, and is blissful consumerism.
We should be boycotting all companies that we don’t agree with. And NVIDIA is a department of war contractor and American Regime mega donor.
If you actually need something, and it’s possible to need a GPU, then you can buy second hand from within your community. Try to buy as local as possible, look for things like surplus office equipment or at local repair shops.
In your example of a car, buying a used car is also better than buying a new car in many ways, especially since cars made before 2014 were not able to surveil you.
Boycott bad companies / practices, and stop consuming the latest slop they put in the trough.
That’s fair, it isn’t how i read it but i can see it’s importance now you’ve pointed it out.
This is nice in theory but the practical application is difficult.
I can get into it, but it’s a common conversation i have on here, almost all of modern society is built on horrific shit, where is the line?
Is it first order disagreements like this NVIDIA boycott, or is it second order as well ? Meaning any company that willingly works with NVIDIA or explicitly buys new NVIDIA gpu’s ?
It’s not a trick question, I’m trying to gauge what you meant by that statement.
To be clear, i’m not saying to do nothing, i’m trying to figure out where your line is and why.
That’s fair, though i would add a caveat to say “where possible”
As a concrete example, GPU’s right now are ridiculous which means the secondhand market is tight, if your timeframe/need is also tight then it might not be possible to always do the “right thing™”.
Agreed.
Why pick 2014, was there some regulatory requirement introduced then ?
See my question about lines above.
I think these are all good questions to ask ourselves.
It’s going to depend on your interest or ability to research. However, if one were to simply buy used items when possible, or choose a brand one thinks aligns with themselves after some research, I think that’s a good start.
If one thinks they might need compromise their morals, I think they should really consider their options. I’d rather pay full price for an old used GPU than give nvidia any money, but that’s my personal opinion.
I think this is just because car companies weren’t yet starting to surveil their drivers as part of a new revenue stream until 2014. You can read more about it.
Personally, I’ve removed myself from the American market about as much as I can while still living in the USA.
I’ve divested from American stocks.
I try to make/grow my own whenever possible, and rely on my local community more. I even started a community regenerative farm.
If I do think I need to buy something new, I try to either buy European, Japanese, or from a few other choice markets depending on the product, like South America for specialty wood and coffee direct from as small a manufacturer as possible.
Homespun movement
I don’t expect everyone to live like this, not everyone has the luxury. But I do hope people atleast try to not pay companies that harm them.
Agreed.
Tony’s Chocolonely is a good example of this, it’s not that they are 100% there but they explain why certain decisions were made so i can decide for myself if it’s enough.
An example
I do know what you mean, i’m just not 100% sure where the morals/ethics line is supposed to go.
I’m not amoral it just seems like people arbitrarily draw lines and they seem so certain.
I’m not sure where that certainty comes from, because i don’t have it.
interesting, thanks.
I kind of agree, but this is the kind of thing i mean, almost all companies harm them in some way, from business practices to supply chain, workforce, political donations, equipment purchases, environmental concerns.
I’m not a crazy person, i understand there is a difference between the local corner store buying a bigger truck than they need vs bezos draining whole water tables so he can buy another spaceship, it’s just how people pick the hills to die on in the middle that’s confusing to me.
I have something i use but it’s contextual and inconsistent and by no means gives me the kind of certainty i see in other people.
You have to draw your own lines, ones that are important to you. You shouldn’t let others tell you where does lines are.
As Martin Luther King Jr said:
That tracks.
Yeah if you need your GPU to go to the shops, or to work, or to visit your family, that would certainly suck.
If you need a car to do those things that also sucks.
In general, needing something to do something you want to do is annoying.
Putting aside the fact that i was in no way claiming you could do all the exact same things with a car as you could with a GPU.
There are in fact jobs that require a dedicated gpu.
No, but you likened lacking a GPU to lacking a care in terms of stuff you would thereby be unable to do. I was making the comparison explicit.
I certainly did not say that nobody needs a GPU for their work.
Fair enough
It’s possible to need a GPU for work and other functions. But you never need a new anything.
Limits your access to impound lots and repo men.
Jobs, social activities, entertainment, groceries, non-emergency medical care.
Don’t get me wrong, cars are a shitty necessity to have, but they are a necessity in some places.
If you want to argue that society should change so this isn’t true, I’m right there with you, but it’s not the reality of now.
I lived well into my 30s without a car. Saved me enough money to buy a house. Not a down payment. buy.
So I’m going to check first, you understand that there are jobs and/or situations that require a car right ?
Edit: I phrased that poorly, not an attack, genuine question.
I’d add that “requirement” is relative. My city’s bus system has stops near enough to cover my home and work, so you could say a car is not required for the route. However, using the bus system would turn my 20 minute (10 minutes one way) daily commute into 3 hours. That’s just too impractical to consider.
Indeed, also things like physical disabilities and health conditions etc.
It’s not that they’re going to force it, It’s just a numbers game. Right now because of AMD’s complete and utter incompetence in all aspects of the GPU market, Nvidia controls 95% of the market.
Developers are going to support the biggest bang for the buck here and implement DLSS 5, AI Slop because that’s what the market has and publishers are going to make them leverage all of DLSS 5 because shareholder value and doing more with less people.
End result, I agree though, is the same though, none of this shit will be optional, but for different reasons I think.
It’s crazy watching and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory
They’re using 2x5090 in the demo, this won’t even be slightly relevant until next gen cards, and given RAMpocalypse that’s ~2028.
Also, AMD on linux is fine, I’ve a 7080XT and it’s fine (at least 60+ usually 100+Hz) for 3440x1440 (~4Kish) on ultra with everything I’ve thrown at it (without ray trace though, and I haven’t played the real ballbusters yet, I’m patient). Which is not to say AMD hasn’t dropped the ball, kicked it out of bounds and then buried it with pricing and other competitiveness, but the hardware is capable and a way better linux experience.
I bought a new gaming laptop just before the rampocalypse started. It was impossible to find one with an AMD GPU where I live so I was pretty much forced to buy one with an Nvidia card. The CPU is AMD though, 'cause fuck Intel as well.