What are you suggesting? That on once a game goes online it’ll require the company by law to keep it running forever?
How many companies would still release games that requires backend if they knew it’s a never ending endeavour even if they’ll lose money from it?
Running the infrastructure to host the game’s baceknd requires money, and releasing the server code as binary or open source is not something that’ll happen.
As you are not a gamer, I’ll try to make it simple.
If a game ask for an online connection, is usually for three reasons:
multiplayer, or some kind of social interaction
drm, to make it harder to cheat, or redistribute cracked versions of said game
telemetry, either to know how players plays their game, or to sell you as an ad target
When the publisher decide to stop the online component, to save a buck, it often mean the game stops working altogether because of the DRM part, as it basically refuses to start without the proper authorization from the now defunct server.
The petition do not ask them to keep running the server indefinitely, but rather to
make it possible to bypass the DRM always online part to be able to play the single player part, if there is one. In most case, it is a simple change to do, a function to modify in order to always return “true” (game can be played)
allow the end user to self host the server. It doesn’t mean open-sourcing it, just to release the server software and allow to point to another server than the defunct ones
In both case, the code already exist, and the changes required are minimal, so why not do it? It costs barely anything to the devs/publisher, and gives the game a second life, even without official support.
But they don’t. Mostly out of greed, to push people to buy the newest, micro-transaction infused game they wish to sell, sometimes even the same game with half the content replaced by micro-transaction (Overwatch 2 being the perfect example).
They don’t want an older, maybe better game to overshadow their new shiny cash grab.
If you don’t like their approach, stop buying their games.
Servers today are much more complex than what they were 25 years ago, and making them in such a way to any idiot could run on their laptop requires substantial effort. I can see how it might not be financially feasible for every company to do. Relaaing the server software will introduce a whole new category of issues that the company will need to face. Shipping a stack of 20 independent services that are orchestrated together is not a single binary, and is not meant to run on any platform.
Well, I don’t. It doesn’t void my freedom to express my opinion on the matter.
I also maintain server (my own, sometime other people server when asked to), and even worked with an open sourced MMO server (Ryzom). Those don’t need to be hard to maintain, except if the architect is a idiot that followed the tend of “microservices”, which does’t make much sense for an MMO.
If they aren’t good enough to make software that makes sense, we’ll find a way to make them work. Don’t underestimate a band of hyperfocussed nerd.
Some guy already programmed a whole unofficial MMO server from scratch, which ended up to be even better than the official one. Unfortunately is wasn’t ever released for obvious copyright infringement reasons, but still.
1.indeed you do. Still it is advised to think before speaking.
2.I said nothing about “micro”. It sounds like you have great expertise in this area and clearly know how it all works so kudos you won 🥳
You won’t be able to do none of that, cause none of it is yours.
If anything, I feel like I’m overestimating you just by having this discussion.
Not clear to me why you feel so entitled to the products of others. You are a gamer, it is barly a hobby.
Games, like movie, are a way to make art. It allows ways of expression that other medias cannot.
Of course not all games are made with the artistic value in mind, like not all movies are, but those are nontheless pieces of our collective culture, be it something like a racing game, or a little platformer.
All thoses are the result of hundred, if not thousands of hours of work, from programmers, to musician, with all others support tasks in between.
For a movie, imagine if you had to constantly be connected to a server, and that suddenly, for nobother reason than saving a buck for the company owning the movie, no one could watch it anymore. Countless masterpieces would be lost to time, not because the original band was lost in a fire like many did through time, but because of someone greed and refusal to make them readable without that punny server.
That petition ask just that same treatment for video games, nothing more. We are not asking for remaster, nor a continued support on new consoles, just a way to preserve the shared memories we hold dear.
Memories of friends who played with us, friends that may not be of this world anymore. Memories of stories told and lived.
To not forget what was, what could have been, and what can be.
Oh for fuck sake, this has never been a good argument, and people who keep repeating these argument-questions (almost like they’re a copy paste) either never read what Stop Killing Games demands, or lack the reading comprehension necessary to understand it.
The third option would be malicious sabotage, but I’m hoping it’s just one of the two stupidity options.
Q. Aren’t you asking companies to support games forever? Isn’t that unrealistic?
A: No, we are not asking that at all. We are in favor of publishers ending support for a game whenever they choose. What we are asking for is that they implement an end-of-life plan to modify or patch the game so that it can run on customer systems with no further support from the company being necessary. We agree that it is unrealistic to expect companies to support games indefinitely and do not advocate for that in any way.
Releasing the server code as binary is how it used to work, and there’s no reason it can’t work that way again. It’s one of several ways to satisfy the petition.
Am not a gamer, and am not informed about your little battle. So i asked a quesion, not made an argument. From the responses to my questions it is obvious how spoiled and toxic your community is. Good luck 🩷
FAQ page has your exact question answered - saved you one click from the link above. Clearly a lot of effort has been put into the site because online spaces we’ve enjoyed can’t be enjoyed any further even if we were interested in maintaining them ourselves as volunteers.
Gamers are by and large toxic and ignorant. The ask isn’t as straightforward as they make it seem. It would require changes to the binaries and client code beforehand. This doesn’t come for free. All the examples of ‘how it used to work in the past’ are predicated on the specific choices of development to go that route. If an application and server are not architected that way then releasing the server binaries do nothing for the community.
I’d agree for an MMO, which can be quite complex server-wise. But most “online single player” would be quite easy to modify.
I’m a software developer who worked with asynchronous online systems.
A simple disk caching system could replace any uploaded data, and any online call can be written to work with cached data with a few line of code. Heck, on some frameworks you could write a simple middleware to make it work without changing a line of the original code.
I could do it on such game in less than a week on a language I don’t know, and probably a day or two on one I know about.
Better service for the community. Take a look over towards Spellbreak for a second and you’ll see a community that has taken what Proletariat had given them after an acquisition by Blizzard and started doing private servers to keep their game functional. I think there’s much to learn from this End-of-Service model, perhaps we could have more privately hosted servers to reduce their overhead if companies truly loved their fanbase; might even be feasible to follow that model from the start for f2p games so the official servers are more capable for tourneys and the like. Either way the goal is end user satisfaction, so if those means are preservation or archival like with Yu-Gi-Oh! Cross Duel, then so be it the fanbase does what they want ultimately, but we just ask companies to offer their olive branch so that all their precious arts don’t drown in the ever expanding sea of data.
It would require devs to start planning for indefinite support during development. Wether that means releasing server software and the source code or not making the game reliant on servers in the first place is up to them.
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What are you suggesting? That on once a game goes online it’ll require the company by law to keep it running forever? How many companies would still release games that requires backend if they knew it’s a never ending endeavour even if they’ll lose money from it?
Running the infrastructure to host the game’s baceknd requires money, and releasing the server code as binary or open source is not something that’ll happen.
So what is the end goal?
As you are not a gamer, I’ll try to make it simple.
If a game ask for an online connection, is usually for three reasons:
When the publisher decide to stop the online component, to save a buck, it often mean the game stops working altogether because of the DRM part, as it basically refuses to start without the proper authorization from the now defunct server.
The petition do not ask them to keep running the server indefinitely, but rather to
In both case, the code already exist, and the changes required are minimal, so why not do it? It costs barely anything to the devs/publisher, and gives the game a second life, even without official support.
But they don’t. Mostly out of greed, to push people to buy the newest, micro-transaction infused game they wish to sell, sometimes even the same game with half the content replaced by micro-transaction (Overwatch 2 being the perfect example).
They don’t want an older, maybe better game to overshadow their new shiny cash grab.
I agree with most of what you said,.
On the other hand -
If they aren’t good enough to make software that makes sense, we’ll find a way to make them work. Don’t underestimate a band of hyperfocussed nerd.
Some guy already programmed a whole unofficial MMO server from scratch, which ended up to be even better than the official one. Unfortunately is wasn’t ever released for obvious copyright infringement reasons, but still.
1.indeed you do. Still it is advised to think before speaking. 2.I said nothing about “micro”. It sounds like you have great expertise in this area and clearly know how it all works so kudos you won 🥳
You won’t be able to do none of that, cause none of it is yours. If anything, I feel like I’m overestimating you just by having this discussion. Not clear to me why you feel so entitled to the products of others. You are a gamer, it is barly a hobby.
On that our opinion differs.
Games, like movie, are a way to make art. It allows ways of expression that other medias cannot.
Of course not all games are made with the artistic value in mind, like not all movies are, but those are nontheless pieces of our collective culture, be it something like a racing game, or a little platformer.
All thoses are the result of hundred, if not thousands of hours of work, from programmers, to musician, with all others support tasks in between.
For a movie, imagine if you had to constantly be connected to a server, and that suddenly, for nobother reason than saving a buck for the company owning the movie, no one could watch it anymore. Countless masterpieces would be lost to time, not because the original band was lost in a fire like many did through time, but because of someone greed and refusal to make them readable without that punny server.
That petition ask just that same treatment for video games, nothing more. We are not asking for remaster, nor a continued support on new consoles, just a way to preserve the shared memories we hold dear.
Memories of friends who played with us, friends that may not be of this world anymore. Memories of stories told and lived.
To not forget what was, what could have been, and what can be.
Oh for fuck sake, this has never been a good argument, and people who keep repeating these argument-questions (almost like they’re a copy paste) either never read what Stop Killing Games demands, or lack the reading comprehension necessary to understand it.
The third option would be malicious sabotage, but I’m hoping it’s just one of the two stupidity options.
From the FAQ of stopkillinggames.com website
Q. Aren’t you asking companies to support games forever? Isn’t that unrealistic?
A: No, we are not asking that at all. We are in favor of publishers ending support for a game whenever they choose. What we are asking for is that they implement an end-of-life plan to modify or patch the game so that it can run on customer systems with no further support from the company being necessary. We agree that it is unrealistic to expect companies to support games indefinitely and do not advocate for that in any way.
You know you can still play Unreal Tournament online against other people? That game came out in 1999!
The problem you sketch has been solved already.
All it takes is for the game developer to release the server binaries. And for fans of the game to run servers.
Releasing the server code as binary is how it used to work, and there’s no reason it can’t work that way again. It’s one of several ways to satisfy the petition.
Interesting how strongly you are opposing an idea that noone proposed, which you would have known had you taken a look at the initiative.
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Required games and games studios to build the game to be played offline or have the ability to self host the server.
Am not a gamer, and am not informed about your little battle. So i asked a quesion, not made an argument. From the responses to my questions it is obvious how spoiled and toxic your community is. Good luck 🩷
FAQ page has your exact question answered - saved you one click from the link above. Clearly a lot of effort has been put into the site because online spaces we’ve enjoyed can’t be enjoyed any further even if we were interested in maintaining them ourselves as volunteers.
Its like the 6th on the lost or something. Clearly a lot of thought.
Running the infrastructure today is not the same as it was back when unreal was first released, for many many reasons.
Gamers are by and large toxic and ignorant. The ask isn’t as straightforward as they make it seem. It would require changes to the binaries and client code beforehand. This doesn’t come for free. All the examples of ‘how it used to work in the past’ are predicated on the specific choices of development to go that route. If an application and server are not architected that way then releasing the server binaries do nothing for the community.
I’d agree for an MMO, which can be quite complex server-wise. But most “online single player” would be quite easy to modify.
I’m a software developer who worked with asynchronous online systems.
A simple disk caching system could replace any uploaded data, and any online call can be written to work with cached data with a few line of code. Heck, on some frameworks you could write a simple middleware to make it work without changing a line of the original code.
I could do it on such game in less than a week on a language I don’t know, and probably a day or two on one I know about.
Yeah exactly but I don’t think anyone here is capable of comprehending that.
removed by mod
removed by mod
Better service for the community. Take a look over towards Spellbreak for a second and you’ll see a community that has taken what Proletariat had given them after an acquisition by Blizzard and started doing private servers to keep their game functional. I think there’s much to learn from this End-of-Service model, perhaps we could have more privately hosted servers to reduce their overhead if companies truly loved their fanbase; might even be feasible to follow that model from the start for f2p games so the official servers are more capable for tourneys and the like. Either way the goal is end user satisfaction, so if those means are preservation or archival like with Yu-Gi-Oh! Cross Duel, then so be it the fanbase does what they want ultimately, but we just ask companies to offer their olive branch so that all their precious arts don’t drown in the ever expanding sea of data.
It would require devs to start planning for indefinite support during development. Wether that means releasing server software and the source code or not making the game reliant on servers in the first place is up to them.