Unironically one of the most surprising thing about the current crop of techbros is how anti-intellectual they are. Back in the day Paul Graham published a smarmy essay about how you shouldn’t have possessions except books. Nowadays, I see so many techbros saying “I hate books” and “I never read.”
It’s weird to have your self identity be both I’m smarter than everyone else and also I don’t read. I really am baffled at how they square that circle.
State currencies are backed by the military and police of their respective countries. You can criticize that all you want, but that gives them an actual value everyone can agree on since the punishment for not agreeing is severe.
The military and police is not what gives currency it’s value. A country’s currency is valued based on it’s usefulness in the global economy, not based on how many ships in its navy or planes in its air force.
We know the value of a currency based on the exchange rate to all other currencies, which you can see at any exchange.
Similarly, Bitcoin’s value is based on how useful it is in the global economy. We know the value because we can see the exchange rate to all other currencies on any exchange.
The only real difference is that fiat currency is a database of money backed by a bank, protected by police and the military while Bitcoin is a database of money backed by mathematics and processing power.
It’s silly to argue that Bitcoin doesn’t have actual value when you can simply look at an exchange and see the trade volume and price to know that that isn’t true.
The US dollar ultimately has power because that is what it takes to pay taxes in the US. You want to do business in the US? Uncle Sam gets his cut, and he only accepts greenbacks. Same with the EU, UK, China, and every other major currency. If you don’t give Uncle Sam his cut, you’ll go to jail or wake up to 110,000 tons of American “diplomacy” plus fleet escort sitting outside you main port.
Ultimately the economic power of a country is backed by the state’s power to defend it. That’s why the USD stands as the global reserve currency instead of something like the Lebanese Pound or the the Kiribati dollar.
Yes, that’s just extra reasons why the USD is more valuable/more dominant/used as a reserve currency.
The point was that saying Bitcoin doesn’t have actual value because it doesn’t have a military isn’t true. You can see the actual value on any exchange, just like every other currency. The value of a currency is related to its use in trade, even countries without a military have currencies with value.
The fact that the USD is more valuable or used as a reserve currency doesn’t mean that other currencies (including bitcoin) don’t have value.
People don’t even understand the value of an immutable digital object and how it never existed before bitcoin either. They can’t wrap their head around that having some inherent value even if small, and how that can transform the world, even if not bitcoin specifically
Bitcoin is climbing again today because Trump reaffirmed his intention to create a US cryptocurrency reserve. If state currencies have value because they are backed by the military, wouldn’t this give the same source of value to these currencies? I don’t think the US isn’t going to be happy with outside entities messing with the value of their assets.
Sure, in regards to Trump, you can criticize that all you want, but it doesn’t detract from cryptocurrencies becoming more legitimate per your own criteria.
The US uses its military to enforce the US dollar status as the global reserve currency. Libya tried to sell oil outside the US dollar market and look what happened to them.
Unless Trump starts using the military to enforce Bitcoin value it still won’t have the same status as a currency.
You make some interesting parallels. While Bitcoin is not mined from the Earth like oil, it is similarly mined all-around the world and not just in US jurisdictions. If another country tried manipulating Bitcoin to crash or pump-and-dump after the US becomes a major stakeholder it would be interesting to see how the US responds.
Again, I’m not speaking in favor or against Trump, just exploring the facts.
Yes, but even if the US started militarily enforcing bitcoin mining, is the US trying to control the value of Bitcoin, or is it trying to control the value of Bitcoin in USD? Is the US treating bitcoin like a commodity that it needs to control (oil, gas) or like a currency?
I do not know, since he never actually explained what his point is. Maybe, maybe not, we will never know, he just wants to say something and I move on.
Tell them it’s worthless to the Russian people who scaped their dictator and could access their money worldwide without many issues. They go out of the Russia and don’t pay taxes to fund the war, ultimately good.
It’s not your fault if your stupid government does starts a war against your will and then your paper money is worthless.
I know that this is the argument, and I agree in principle (no inherent worth), but people tend to forget: Money laundering, buying black market goods online, supporting illegal organisations internationally and speculating on something are technically some kind of worth. That’s why it still never crashed out to 0, imo.
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It’s inherently worthless.
If the crypto Bros could read they’d be very upset
Unironically one of the most surprising thing about the current crop of techbros is how anti-intellectual they are. Back in the day Paul Graham published a smarmy essay about how you shouldn’t have possessions except books. Nowadays, I see so many techbros saying “I hate books” and “I never read.”
It’s weird to have your self identity be both I’m smarter than everyone else and also I don’t read. I really am baffled at how they square that circle.
So are fiat currencies
State currencies are backed by the military and police of their respective countries. You can criticize that all you want, but that gives them an actual value everyone can agree on since the punishment for not agreeing is severe.
The military and police is not what gives currency it’s value. A country’s currency is valued based on it’s usefulness in the global economy, not based on how many ships in its navy or planes in its air force.
We know the value of a currency based on the exchange rate to all other currencies, which you can see at any exchange.
Similarly, Bitcoin’s value is based on how useful it is in the global economy. We know the value because we can see the exchange rate to all other currencies on any exchange.
The only real difference is that fiat currency is a database of money backed by a bank, protected by police and the military while Bitcoin is a database of money backed by mathematics and processing power.
It’s silly to argue that Bitcoin doesn’t have actual value when you can simply look at an exchange and see the trade volume and price to know that that isn’t true.
The US dollar ultimately has power because that is what it takes to pay taxes in the US. You want to do business in the US? Uncle Sam gets his cut, and he only accepts greenbacks. Same with the EU, UK, China, and every other major currency. If you don’t give Uncle Sam his cut, you’ll go to jail or wake up to 110,000 tons of American “diplomacy” plus fleet escort sitting outside you main port.
Ultimately the economic power of a country is backed by the state’s power to defend it. That’s why the USD stands as the global reserve currency instead of something like the Lebanese Pound or the the Kiribati dollar.
Yes, that’s just extra reasons why the USD is more valuable/more dominant/used as a reserve currency.
The point was that saying Bitcoin doesn’t have actual value because it doesn’t have a military isn’t true. You can see the actual value on any exchange, just like every other currency. The value of a currency is related to its use in trade, even countries without a military have currencies with value.
The fact that the USD is more valuable or used as a reserve currency doesn’t mean that other currencies (including bitcoin) don’t have value.
People don’t even understand the value of an immutable digital object and how it never existed before bitcoin either. They can’t wrap their head around that having some inherent value even if small, and how that can transform the world, even if not bitcoin specifically
People recognize the value of digital objects only when they lose access to something like their e-mail or main social media account.
That would never happen to me, there’s no problem, I don’t know what you’re going on about.
Yeah! Like meme stocks or beanie babies.
Doesn’t really matter if there is enforcement, something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.
If someone is willing to pay $100k for 1 Bitcoin then that is what it’s worth.
If someone isn’t willing to pay $100k for a piece of property in Idaho, the police can’t force you to pay that much.
Bitcoin is climbing again today because Trump reaffirmed his intention to create a US cryptocurrency reserve. If state currencies have value because they are backed by the military, wouldn’t this give the same source of value to these currencies? I don’t think the US isn’t going to be happy with outside entities messing with the value of their assets.
If you ever needed further proof that crypto is a grift…
Sure, in regards to Trump, you can criticize that all you want, but it doesn’t detract from cryptocurrencies becoming more legitimate per your own criteria.
Not exactly?
The US uses its military to enforce the US dollar status as the global reserve currency. Libya tried to sell oil outside the US dollar market and look what happened to them.
Unless Trump starts using the military to enforce Bitcoin value it still won’t have the same status as a currency.
You make some interesting parallels. While Bitcoin is not mined from the Earth like oil, it is similarly mined all-around the world and not just in US jurisdictions. If another country tried manipulating Bitcoin to crash or pump-and-dump after the US becomes a major stakeholder it would be interesting to see how the US responds.
Again, I’m not speaking in favor or against Trump, just exploring the facts.
Yes, but even if the US started militarily enforcing bitcoin mining, is the US trying to control the value of Bitcoin, or is it trying to control the value of Bitcoin in USD? Is the US treating bitcoin like a commodity that it needs to control (oil, gas) or like a currency?
…so?
Price discovery is gonna be a bitch.
Believing in “price discovery” is delusional even without the misogyny.
I do not understand you. So many things have no inherent value but still cost arbitrarily much?
Sounds good, bro.
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I do not know, since he never actually explained what his point is. Maybe, maybe not, we will never know, he just wants to say something and I move on.
deleted by creator
There’s always two new people just discovering this conversation, picking a side and “researching” their way into the same talking points.
Or it’s bots.
Tell them it’s worthless to the Russian people who scaped their dictator and could access their money worldwide without many issues. They go out of the Russia and don’t pay taxes to fund the war, ultimately good.
It’s not your fault if your stupid government does starts a war against your will and then your paper money is worthless.
Bitcoin is freedom.
I know that this is the argument, and I agree in principle (no inherent worth), but people tend to forget: Money laundering, buying black market goods online, supporting illegal organisations internationally and speculating on something are technically some kind of worth. That’s why it still never crashed out to 0, imo.