** In an artificial 45 degree downward slope, in a vacuum, with an assisted gravity of 1.5G, running in eco++++ mode, using tier 800 mega max pOwattedgenanoblockchainturd battery life technology (price available on consultation only).
I am not currently buying but I looked at the Hyundai Ioniq? Iconic? Whatever numbers yesterday and from what I saw you could get an AWD ~50k on the road with over 300 miles range and a cost of ~$8-$10 to fill the battery going off prices in the U.S. for electricity.
That is better than what I need for sure and 1/3 the cost of gas, so I have to say the doubts and againsts are getting pretty small here. I think 0-60 was 5.1 seconds (SUV crossover) that’s as quick as I want an SUV to accelerate haha
More like $60. 375 miles of range is ~12.5 gallons @ 30mpg, or ~$62 @ $5/gallon (current average in CA). If you have a hybrid getting 50mpg, it’s <$40 for that range.
An EV will cost you double or more vs an ICE, and hybrids aren’t that much more than ICE if you go on the cheaper end (e.g. a sedan instead of an SUV). Even if gas is expensive and electricity is cheap, the breakeven point is still quite a few years, which may exceed the expected lifetime of the vehicle.
Imo, you don’t get an EV because of fuel prices, you get it for other reasons, such as:
eco-consciousness
performance - EVs are pretty much universally faster
tech features like self-driving - ICE can do it too, so this is mostly product segmentation
convenience - charge at home instead of going to the gas station
status
I’m interested because of convenience, as in I’d love to never have to fill up my commuter. But there just isn’t an economical choice, so I stick with my Prius. I need about 150 miles of range because my work is ~25 miles away and we have cold winters (I’m assuming 50% range in winter), and 150 miles should give me enough to not worry about range for 10+ years. However, my choices right now are $30k for a Chevy (battery fire concerns), $50k for pretty much anything else, or <150 miles of range. I don’t need much, I just need a way to get from A -> B with enough range for a 50 mile round trip commute in the winter, with capacity for degradation over 10 years. And I want to spend <$20k. I can get that with used hybrids, I can’t get it with an EV.
And as far as I’m concerned, EVs won’t work for our family vehicle because we do long road trips to places with really poor charging infrastructure. 500+ miles of range would probably be enough, but 250 definitely isn’t. So we’ll be replacing out crappy ICE (~20 mpg) with a hybrid (~35 mph) for our family car, and I’ll be looking for an EV to replace my commuter (45-50 mpg) once prices start coming down on used.
I want to know how they are getting that much energy safely delivered to the battery. That’s probably 200+ kWh of energy getting dumped into the battery in 10 min. That’s going to cause a lot of heat and require a massive delivery system. Maybe a local capacitor that slow charged and then dumps all at once, but I didn’t see any details on the article.
MCS and other standards in consideration are all around the 1-3.5MW range.
Most of the absurd luxury/sports EVs output 500kW-1MW at full acceleration (they can only keep this up for 5 minutes though). It’s not a huge leap from existing production stuff.
Possibly capacitors, but most likely there will be battery storage for charging systems. The Tesla V4 superchargers can deliver 1 MW of total power spread across 4 individual cars, but can only draw 350kW from the grid. To get the additional power, they have batteries connected to the system that charge up when the supercharger is delivering less than 350kW.
Right now I think Li-FePo4 cells are the safest high capacity ones on the market, you can even drill a hole through them in some cases and they don’t combust
Damn does the whole block brown out when you plug it in?
My Bolt gets , simplify, 400 km on 60 kW or 15.0 kw/100 km efficiency. It can charge at 30-50 KWH from a big old DC fast charge station in 1.5 hours or so.
This thing gets 1200km, equivalent to 180 kW, in 10 minutes? Is it charging at 900kwh or is it operating on the road at 5kw/100km or something in between? Either way I’ll believe it when I see it. As far as I know 360kwh or so is the max right now.
Last I saw the anticipated production start of that project is in the early 2030s so talking about it now is kinda moot. Whatever vehicle I buy now will be dead or near death by the time this hits dealerships
Meanwhile, a 2010-era gasoline Toyota will outlast the heat death of the universe. Toyota is lagging behind in EV development, but it’s largely because they’re focused on finding ways to make it last fucking forever. Toyota interiors are infamous for being really bare. But that’s because they only include the things that they can be sure will work for the next decade at least. You aren’t going to find something like a dead console touchscreen in a two year old Toyota, because Toyota won’t include a touchscreen in the console until they’ve figured out how to make them survive a lot of abuse.
is this the same Toyota that’s actually lobbying the US government against the switch to EVs? Is this the same Toyota who had the clear advantage in EV technology but squandered it all just to keep on manufacturing thermal engines?
This is another shitty tactic, don’t believe them.
a tesla model 3 100kwh battery charges from 10% to 80% in 30min with 250kw charger, that means 70kwh for 376km autonomy in 30 min. if u want 1200km range, u need a pack of 223kwh to get that range, and a charging speed of 2390kw to do that in 10min. a pack of 223kw would weigh 1338kg. wouldn’t that affect the car autonomy ? probably. with a hydrogen car, a 5kg of h2 would give u 400km of autonomy, refillable in 10 min, so u would need 3*5kg of h2 tanks to get that charging speed, also 3 ports. are those feasible ? will see.
well, every form of energy storage can be a headache to handle (ie batteries…), but what can u do ? maybe use kevlar tanks (if thats a thing) ?.. there should be some workaround somehow
Safe Hydrogen storage is possible, but development is still behind where it needs to be, especially when compared to batteries.
The real issue with hydrogen though, is that we still suck at making it. Most of the cheap hydrogen on the market is from hydrocarbons, which isn’t exactly a renewable resource. Electrolysis as we currently do it is inefficient, with energy lost during production. Meanwhile, batteries can take energy straight from whatever source made it, with very little lost in the process, so it’s way more efficient.
If Hydrogen production makes a breakthrough in the future, and hydrogen storage improves a bit more, it could quickly become viable, but that’s probably gonna be a while.
yea, 48kwh to produce 1kg of h2 with electrolysis ?! lol
but also we could rely on saudi arabia’s infinite sunny desert to produce h2 in sustainable quantites.
if solar panels could become more efficient that also would be nice.
also because batteries would require african kids to mine for ur cathode (cobalt) and argentinian kids to mine for the anode (lithium). maybe solar panels are less impactful ?
but also we could rely on saudi arabia’s infinite sunny desert to produce h2 in sustainable quantites.
Pretty much no country wants green energy to be a repeat of fossil fuels, where a few countries monopolize the energy production, so that’d never work. Nuclear could be an answer though, if countries stopped being paranoid about it and actually invested in new nuclear tech.
if solar panels could become more efficient that also would be nice.
I wish, but it’ll probably be a while, short of some kind of massive breakthrough, and definitely doesn’t completely justify the losses in hydrogen electrolysis.
also because batteries would require african kids to mine for ur cathode (cobalt) and argentinian kids to mine for the anode (lithium). maybe solar panels are less impactful ?
Yeah, we really need to get away from lithium-ion batteries, especially because of the limited geography of some of its components and the environmental impacts of mining them. There’s been some promising battery tech being researched, but no clear signs for what’s going to pan out or not yet. On the bright side, improved lithium extraction methods are in the pipeline, which could reduce the geological and environmental impacts of it enough to allow other countries to feel comfortable tapping their deposits, like the US.
electrolysis can be more efficient if the o2 produced where put into use too like sold as an oxidizer to rocket companies or something. o2 and h2 producing industries need to consolidate if they want to be sustainable and stay profitable.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.
Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.
Rules:
1: All Lemmy rules apply
2: Do not post low effort posts
3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff
4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.
5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)
6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist
7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed
in perfect lab* conditions.
** In an artificial 45 degree downward slope, in a vacuum, with an assisted gravity of 1.5G, running in eco++++ mode, using tier 800 mega max pOwattedgenanoblockchainturd battery life technology (price available on consultation only).
TL;DR Need proof.
Yeah, I’m gonna need to see the paperwork on that…
Press x to doubt.
x
X
\/
/\
It’s 2009, 2014, 2017 and 2020 all over again.
They keep promising great new battery tech just around the corner and never delivering.
If I was a cynic, I might think they’re simply doing it to put people off buying current EVs so they’re not saddled with ‘old tech’.
While you wait for our amazing new battery, pick yourself up a great new hybrid…
I am not currently buying but I looked at the Hyundai Ioniq? Iconic? Whatever numbers yesterday and from what I saw you could get an AWD ~50k on the road with over 300 miles range and a cost of ~$8-$10 to fill the battery going off prices in the U.S. for electricity.
That is better than what I need for sure and 1/3 the cost of gas, so I have to say the doubts and againsts are getting pretty small here. I think 0-60 was 5.1 seconds (SUV crossover) that’s as quick as I want an SUV to accelerate haha
Also depends on where you live. I can charge my Model S from 0% to 100% for about $5-$6 and get 350-400 miles.
But my friend in California would have to pay something like ~$40, which makes it a much harder sell.
deleted by creator
Location certainly makes a huge difference, I’ve spent a total of €1016.32 for 10k miles charging at home with my Leaf.
Much harder sell? They’d probably be paying close to $80 for gas for the same range.
More like $60. 375 miles of range is ~12.5 gallons @ 30mpg, or ~$62 @ $5/gallon (current average in CA). If you have a hybrid getting 50mpg, it’s <$40 for that range.
An EV will cost you double or more vs an ICE, and hybrids aren’t that much more than ICE if you go on the cheaper end (e.g. a sedan instead of an SUV). Even if gas is expensive and electricity is cheap, the breakeven point is still quite a few years, which may exceed the expected lifetime of the vehicle.
Imo, you don’t get an EV because of fuel prices, you get it for other reasons, such as:
I’m interested because of convenience, as in I’d love to never have to fill up my commuter. But there just isn’t an economical choice, so I stick with my Prius. I need about 150 miles of range because my work is ~25 miles away and we have cold winters (I’m assuming 50% range in winter), and 150 miles should give me enough to not worry about range for 10+ years. However, my choices right now are $30k for a Chevy (battery fire concerns), $50k for pretty much anything else, or <150 miles of range. I don’t need much, I just need a way to get from A -> B with enough range for a 50 mile round trip commute in the winter, with capacity for degradation over 10 years. And I want to spend <$20k. I can get that with used hybrids, I can’t get it with an EV.
And as far as I’m concerned, EVs won’t work for our family vehicle because we do long road trips to places with really poor charging infrastructure. 500+ miles of range would probably be enough, but 250 definitely isn’t. So we’ll be replacing out crappy ICE (~20 mpg) with a hybrid (~35 mph) for our family car, and I’ll be looking for an EV to replace my commuter (45-50 mpg) once prices start coming down on used.
At peak times maybe. Even then a comparable ICE would be $70-80 to fill up te same range.
Does anyone remember graphene?
I’ve been looking forward to graphene technology for like 8 years. Still hopeful though.
I want to know how they are getting that much energy safely delivered to the battery. That’s probably 200+ kWh of energy getting dumped into the battery in 10 min. That’s going to cause a lot of heat and require a massive delivery system. Maybe a local capacitor that slow charged and then dumps all at once, but I didn’t see any details on the article.
MCS and other standards in consideration are all around the 1-3.5MW range.
Most of the absurd luxury/sports EVs output 500kW-1MW at full acceleration (they can only keep this up for 5 minutes though). It’s not a huge leap from existing production stuff.
Possibly capacitors, but most likely there will be battery storage for charging systems. The Tesla V4 superchargers can deliver 1 MW of total power spread across 4 individual cars, but can only draw 350kW from the grid. To get the additional power, they have batteries connected to the system that charge up when the supercharger is delivering less than 350kW.
I wonder what the safety is like?
Right now I think Li-FePo4 cells are the safest high capacity ones on the market, you can even drill a hole through them in some cases and they don’t combust
Solid state lithium are generally much safer. Keeping them working for more than a few charges is the problem.
If they actually do this though…
It will come, I just question if the hydrogen market will best them soon after
Damn does the whole block brown out when you plug it in?
My Bolt gets , simplify, 400 km on 60 kW or 15.0 kw/100 km efficiency. It can charge at 30-50 KWH from a big old DC fast charge station in 1.5 hours or so.
This thing gets 1200km, equivalent to 180 kW, in 10 minutes? Is it charging at 900kwh or is it operating on the road at 5kw/100km or something in between? Either way I’ll believe it when I see it. As far as I know 360kwh or so is the max right now.
kW is the rate, kWh is the amount of energy. You’ve swapped them and it’s giving me a stroke to read lol
It’s called power. But yeah, it’s the rate of energy transformed.
I’m well aware, was just using terms that would be familiar for someone who swapped them already lol
Last I saw the anticipated production start of that project is in the early 2030s so talking about it now is kinda moot. Whatever vehicle I buy now will be dead or near death by the time this hits dealerships
Meanwhile, a 2010-era gasoline Toyota will outlast the heat death of the universe. Toyota is lagging behind in EV development, but it’s largely because they’re focused on finding ways to make it last fucking forever. Toyota interiors are infamous for being really bare. But that’s because they only include the things that they can be sure will work for the next decade at least. You aren’t going to find something like a dead console touchscreen in a two year old Toyota, because Toyota won’t include a touchscreen in the console until they’ve figured out how to make them survive a lot of abuse.
My Toyota touch-screen stopped responding to my touch after 11 years.
This is a technology post, not a “buy this car next” post. It’s moot if all you care about is your next car.
is this the same Toyota that’s actually lobbying the US government against the switch to EVs? Is this the same Toyota who had the clear advantage in EV technology but squandered it all just to keep on manufacturing thermal engines?
This is another shitty tactic, don’t believe them.
Akio Toyoda, the CEO responsible for their Anti-EV stance, was replaced on April 1st.
He was the president & CEO, now he is the chairman.
Also the grandson of the founder of Toyota.
I believe they forced him to step down because of his stubborn stance on EVs right?
They know the tech is out there, they just don’t want it and will only use as much of it as they are forced to.
There’s a reason why Tesla, a car company that was openly and explicitly set on building electric cars, was such a big deal.
a tesla model 3 100kwh battery charges from 10% to 80% in 30min with 250kw charger, that means 70kwh for 376km autonomy in 30 min. if u want 1200km range, u need a pack of 223kwh to get that range, and a charging speed of 2390kw to do that in 10min. a pack of 223kw would weigh 1338kg. wouldn’t that affect the car autonomy ? probably. with a hydrogen car, a 5kg of h2 would give u 400km of autonomy, refillable in 10 min, so u would need 3*5kg of h2 tanks to get that charging speed, also 3 ports. are those feasible ? will see.
Hydrogen always seemed like the best solution, but isn’t it a nightmare to store safety? Accidents would basically turn into massive explosions
well, every form of energy storage can be a headache to handle (ie batteries…), but what can u do ? maybe use kevlar tanks (if thats a thing) ?.. there should be some workaround somehow
Safe Hydrogen storage is possible, but development is still behind where it needs to be, especially when compared to batteries.
The real issue with hydrogen though, is that we still suck at making it. Most of the cheap hydrogen on the market is from hydrocarbons, which isn’t exactly a renewable resource. Electrolysis as we currently do it is inefficient, with energy lost during production. Meanwhile, batteries can take energy straight from whatever source made it, with very little lost in the process, so it’s way more efficient.
If Hydrogen production makes a breakthrough in the future, and hydrogen storage improves a bit more, it could quickly become viable, but that’s probably gonna be a while.
yea, 48kwh to produce 1kg of h2 with electrolysis ?! lol
but also we could rely on saudi arabia’s infinite sunny desert to produce h2 in sustainable quantites.
if solar panels could become more efficient that also would be nice.
also because batteries would require african kids to mine for ur cathode (cobalt) and argentinian kids to mine for the anode (lithium). maybe solar panels are less impactful ?
Pretty much no country wants green energy to be a repeat of fossil fuels, where a few countries monopolize the energy production, so that’d never work. Nuclear could be an answer though, if countries stopped being paranoid about it and actually invested in new nuclear tech.
I wish, but it’ll probably be a while, short of some kind of massive breakthrough, and definitely doesn’t completely justify the losses in hydrogen electrolysis.
Yeah, we really need to get away from lithium-ion batteries, especially because of the limited geography of some of its components and the environmental impacts of mining them. There’s been some promising battery tech being researched, but no clear signs for what’s going to pan out or not yet. On the bright side, improved lithium extraction methods are in the pipeline, which could reduce the geological and environmental impacts of it enough to allow other countries to feel comfortable tapping their deposits, like the US.
electrolysis can be more efficient if the o2 produced where put into use too like sold as an oxidizer to rocket companies or something. o2 and h2 producing industries need to consolidate if they want to be sustainable and stay profitable.
Claims they could.
If you can get a downhill stretch of road that long…
Hmm. That might actually make enough heat for a Canadian winter…
Toyota is a really notorious company. They changed the whole small car segment to premium segment by bumping up the price more than 75%.
The price of everything has been bumped up 75%.
Yeah but someone started it
745 miles. Dayamm.