Recent backlash in response to QOL mods for Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake has highlighted a fundamental difference in how mods are viewed in Japan vs in the West.
Ahh, what a difference! I love mods, I’ve modded both Stardew Valley and Darkest Dungeon quite a bit. I also like them unmodded. One never has to mod so it feels weird to hate it.
I almost struggle to believe that Japanese gamers aren’t down with modding. Nintendo fans maybe. As aside where are all the Japanese posters to be like “wtf is this guy on about”. Every other day I get to giggle at German memes I don’t even understand; but I only see Japanese comments on stuff like YouTube. Maybe they got weirded out by English speakers since the days of image boards, which is fair enough tbh.
The article explains it well. At least some of them see it as defacing a work of art, which I think it would be fair if games were unique pieces and not mass produced - it would piss me off if someone drew a mustache on the Mona Lisa in the Louvre but if you want to do it on your mass printed Mona Lisa copy, be my guest.
Tbh this is first time I learned japanese being divided over mods. As stated on the written article, Capcom and Square Enix on Final Fantasy are those that “worried” by mods because they deem some stuff are too “over to the top”.
A lot aren’t going to have a huge opinion because easily-modded games aren’t a thing due to platform. PC gaming was always a very niche hobby here with most people not owning PCs. That has somewhat started to change recently, but that basically left other platforms where mods were either available (for free or paid) from the publisher or very difficult to go about at all as compared to modding common games on PC.
Based on my incredibly non-scientific “watching some stuff on youtube over the years” method, my money would be on Minecraft turning things around a bit as I did see Japanese creators playing a lot of modded minecraft on youtube.
I love ALTTPR (link to the past randomizer) and my wife is amazed that people would upload themselves playing it because it alters the author’s work (even though it just removes custscenes and moves around items and screen transitions, basically). People have apparently gotten in trouble for streaming it in Japan on monetized channels. As someone who lives in Japan, it’s why I don’t upload it even on something not monetized. I own a physical copy of the game as well.
Most Japanese see it this way which, to me, is really weird when all kinds of grey-market anime and managa stuff has a blind eye turned toward it.
Using established characters in your own works has long been accepted in Japan, especially for smaller doujin works, and that’s awesome. But the analogy between that and modding just isn’t the same.
If we apply the ‘modding’ analogy to manga, that would basically be taking someone else’s published work, applying white-out on half the frames, drawing in partial new contents of your own, and then republishing it. That would be incredibly disrespectful of the author to use not only their character, but their exact art in such a way. Very different from creating a whole new derivative work.
I’m personally very in-favour of modding, but I can understand why the Japanese in particular, when seen through that lens, do not like it.
Not all modding goes that far, but I do think you put well how many see it. I should also note that things like ALTTPR do not make money and are free for any to download and use with their own ROM (i.e. require that you own the game yourself). The are simply meant to add replayability and variety.
Re-arranging the items, varying the power/defense of enemies, etc. doesn’t seem to fit that case very well to me. There are, of course, mods that do a lot more than those are definitely more akin to what you wrote.
As someone who loves mods, I’m totally I’m agreement.
Mods vary greatly, from ones that add tiny quality of life improvements, such as a ‘sort’ button on your inventory, right through to huge visual overhauls and new characters and mechanics changes.
Personally I like to always play games in a fairly vanilla way first with QOL changes only, and then when I’ve played it through once, the mods can keep things interesting.
That’s why mods are great, because they give you, the user, the choice.
Really weird way to look at it. Mods are basically fan art. It’s from people who appreciate the original work so much that they want to diversify the experience. Yes, you change the original work to a degree, sometimes vastly, but that’s not meant as a disrespect to the original work. But I guess this is also people having their heads deep up in Nintendo’s ass specifically, who has always been extremely toxic & hostile towards any sort of fan modding or recreations. I guess that sort of corporate dominance leaves a mark on people. The West has different but similar corporate based rewiring / brainwashing for their products too.
It took me skyrim and running through a techno hello kitty cave as super Mario wielding a lightsaber* to realize that modding is actually cool and that I hate that I can’t easily mod my console games.
I love Breath of The Wild, but I’m playing my third run of it on my steam deck with a significant amount of mods because those devs have a serious aversion to simple and basic qol
Honestly it was a hassle that took quite a while to get everything working correctly, but for me personally it was worth it. There’s several guides for it but almost all of them are a bit outdated in 2024, but there’s a good community who are really helpful: https://discord.gg/zelda-botw-modding-hub-316759222207643649
For the steamdeck you’ll average about 40fps with the right settings, which isn’t a lot but it’s better than on switch or Wii U
… that make it more user-friendly and whatnot, but I don’t understand how you can just casually alter someone else’s work. It’s the same as looking at an illustration and going, “It sucked so I fixed it for you.”
So let me come up with another analogy:
I bought a Japanese chef knife, love the craftmanship on it, but need to sharpen it every know an then. Also the handle came off in the dishwasher, so I 3D printed one with Kirby on it.
Also, the analogy does not apply to an undamaged painting. A painting that can be viewed cannot be inproved function wise.
Although I am all for derivate work of that painting. For exmple in another medium.
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Ahh, what a difference! I love mods, I’ve modded both Stardew Valley and Darkest Dungeon quite a bit. I also like them unmodded. One never has to mod so it feels weird to hate it.
Yup, I almost never play with mods, but I have no problem with them existing. Play however you want…
Here’s the right approach to rightsholders:
Did you get the money?
Great, fuck off.
Literally mind your business.
I almost struggle to believe that Japanese gamers aren’t down with modding. Nintendo fans maybe. As aside where are all the Japanese posters to be like “wtf is this guy on about”. Every other day I get to giggle at German memes I don’t even understand; but I only see Japanese comments on stuff like YouTube. Maybe they got weirded out by English speakers since the days of image boards, which is fair enough tbh.
The article explains it well. At least some of them see it as defacing a work of art, which I think it would be fair if games were unique pieces and not mass produced - it would piss me off if someone drew a mustache on the Mona Lisa in the Louvre but if you want to do it on your mass printed Mona Lisa copy, be my guest.
Tbh this is first time I learned japanese being divided over mods. As stated on the written article, Capcom and Square Enix on Final Fantasy are those that “worried” by mods because they deem some stuff are too “over to the top”.
On Assetto Corsa for example Japanese players embrace modding because it is one of the only way to fully experience driving over real course like The infamous Shuto Expressway network that back in the day used for street racing.
A lot aren’t going to have a huge opinion because easily-modded games aren’t a thing due to platform. PC gaming was always a very niche hobby here with most people not owning PCs. That has somewhat started to change recently, but that basically left other platforms where mods were either available (for free or paid) from the publisher or very difficult to go about at all as compared to modding common games on PC.
Based on my incredibly non-scientific “watching some stuff on youtube over the years” method, my money would be on Minecraft turning things around a bit as I did see Japanese creators playing a lot of modded minecraft on youtube.
I love ALTTPR (link to the past randomizer) and my wife is amazed that people would upload themselves playing it because it alters the author’s work (even though it just removes custscenes and moves around items and screen transitions, basically). People have apparently gotten in trouble for streaming it in Japan on monetized channels. As someone who lives in Japan, it’s why I don’t upload it even on something not monetized. I own a physical copy of the game as well.
Most Japanese see it this way which, to me, is really weird when all kinds of grey-market anime and managa stuff has a blind eye turned toward it.
Using established characters in your own works has long been accepted in Japan, especially for smaller doujin works, and that’s awesome. But the analogy between that and modding just isn’t the same.
If we apply the ‘modding’ analogy to manga, that would basically be taking someone else’s published work, applying white-out on half the frames, drawing in partial new contents of your own, and then republishing it. That would be incredibly disrespectful of the author to use not only their character, but their exact art in such a way. Very different from creating a whole new derivative work.
I’m personally very in-favour of modding, but I can understand why the Japanese in particular, when seen through that lens, do not like it.
deleted by creator
Not all modding goes that far, but I do think you put well how many see it. I should also note that things like ALTTPR do not make money and are free for any to download and use with their own ROM (i.e. require that you own the game yourself). The are simply meant to add replayability and variety.
Re-arranging the items, varying the power/defense of enemies, etc. doesn’t seem to fit that case very well to me. There are, of course, mods that do a lot more than those are definitely more akin to what you wrote.
As someone who loves mods, I’m totally I’m agreement.
Mods vary greatly, from ones that add tiny quality of life improvements, such as a ‘sort’ button on your inventory, right through to huge visual overhauls and new characters and mechanics changes.
Personally I like to always play games in a fairly vanilla way first with QOL changes only, and then when I’ve played it through once, the mods can keep things interesting.
That’s why mods are great, because they give you, the user, the choice.
yeah fan manga is popular and theres fucktons of authors who started their career that way
someone def has been spreading bad press about “those dirty modders and hackers” being the source of all video gaming evil
Really weird way to look at it. Mods are basically fan art. It’s from people who appreciate the original work so much that they want to diversify the experience. Yes, you change the original work to a degree, sometimes vastly, but that’s not meant as a disrespect to the original work. But I guess this is also people having their heads deep up in Nintendo’s ass specifically, who has always been extremely toxic & hostile towards any sort of fan modding or recreations. I guess that sort of corporate dominance leaves a mark on people. The West has different but similar corporate based rewiring / brainwashing for their products too.
DQ II hd-2D is essentially a giant ass DQ II mod.
Silly Japanese. They can’t even keep their country populated.
Thinking games are infallible and getting angry over having the option of installing them is pretty wild.
Some Nintendo fans in the US are still like this.
It took me skyrim and running through a techno hello kitty cave as super Mario wielding a lightsaber* to realize that modding is actually cool and that I hate that I can’t easily mod my console games.
Tap for spoiler
*I actually just installed a lot of sex mods
I love Breath of The Wild, but I’m playing my third run of it on my steam deck with a significant amount of mods because those devs have a serious aversion to simple and basic qol
any tips on running that on the deck and what’s performance like these days.
Honestly it was a hassle that took quite a while to get everything working correctly, but for me personally it was worth it. There’s several guides for it but almost all of them are a bit outdated in 2024, but there’s a good community who are really helpful: https://discord.gg/zelda-botw-modding-hub-316759222207643649
For the steamdeck you’ll average about 40fps with the right settings, which isn’t a lot but it’s better than on switch or Wii U
So let me come up with another analogy:
I bought a Japanese chef knife, love the craftmanship on it, but need to sharpen it every know an then. Also the handle came off in the dishwasher, so I 3D printed one with Kirby on it.
Also, the analogy does not apply to an undamaged painting. A painting that can be viewed cannot be inproved function wise. Although I am all for derivate work of that painting. For exmple in another medium.
Like this 3D / VR painting based on Van Gogh: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/van-gogh-d828cf07eacd4f14bb48576731ec7833
You shouldn’t wash kitchen knives in the dishwasher. Or any utensil with wood or bamboo in them.
I actually don’t, this was for sake of the analogy and the freedom of being able to :)
well tell the you in the analogy to care for their knives better. we have standards here on lemmy