veterinary reports show the condition of a female monkey called “Animal 15” during the months leading up to her death in March 2019. Days after her implant surgery, she began to press her head against the floor for no apparent reason; a symptom of pain or infection, the records say. Staff observed that though she was uncomfortable, picking and pulling at her implant until it bled, she would often lie at the foot of her cage and spend time holding hands with her roommate.
Kinda amazing they go to the SEC for investor fraud instead of the courts for persecution of torture
I wonder if these “scientists” were the type of kids that would burn ants to death with a magnifying glass too
These accounts do sound awful and I personally don’t condone them, but I’m sure some monkey suffering from medically induced cancer with several tumors doesn’t have fun. Testing on animals is neccessary before any human trials.
i’m just glad the monkeys aren’t suffering anymore. With elon sugarcoating tesla autopilot and neuralink’s impact on monkey brains, how are we supposed to trust this man?
Personally I don’t have an issue with the animal testing part. New medical procedures are often tested on animals, that’s how you save lives. But Musk is clearly making shit up here and now tries to proceed with human testing? With the amount of stupid hype he’s spewing about it I don’t believe absolutely anything that is being said about this technology. I say let him go first and show us how useful this is.
Debates about animal testing are important and understanding the realities of them is good, but I feel like it’s easy to overlook maybe the most crucial component of this: Musk has openly and clearly lied about these tests and the realities of what point his technology is at, seemingly to mask the grim reality behind it
He’s done that in all his businesses. Arguably that’s what makes him a messiah to his ilk. They think he’s a profit. When sane people realize he’s just a blow hard lying about things or is just completely out to lunch.
Which is pretty standard with these types. Akin to Homes.
Exactly. Animal testing is neccessary are doesn’t usually look any better than this unfortunately, but lying about it should be (and obviously will be) investigated by SEC because by lying about it he created false impression of this product which benefited the company.
Another rich aberration with zero empathy and no connection with the rest of the human race - only himself. Seems to be a lot of that these days. Or at least the worst of them seem to keep getting the headlines.
Animal 15 began to lose coordination and staff observed that she would shake uncontrollably when she saw lab workers. Her condition deteriorated for months until the staff finally euthanized her. A necropsy report indicates that she had bleeding in her brain and that the Neuralink implants left parts of her cerebral cortex “focally tattered.”
Well thank god this sort of short sighted thinking isn’t prevalent in science or medicine or we’d all be fucked.
*lol a scientist scooped a baby rat’s brain’s out just to satisfy his curiosity about dreams and sleep. You guys think I’m worried about some monkeys dying to help paralyzed people live again, I’m not. Science be like that sometimes, progress of all kinds is built on suffering of some sort, those in charge of the universe do their best to make sure it’s not them. You can hate me and my ideals if you want, but at least I’m not ignorant to the cause and what’s at stake just because I’m emotionally invested in the man behind the curtain.
What is the difference exactly? It’s both animal testing. It’s going to be cruel by its very nature. They’re testing on animals because they’re not allowed to test on humans. If they could they would.
Everyone here acting like this is all black and white. Without animal testing there’s no modern medicine. That is a choise we could have made but didn’t. Thousands of animals had to suffer so that millions of people would not. From an utilitairian point of view it’s a no-brainer but it’s still cruel as fuck and there’s no getting around that. Animal testing or no - both leads to individuals suffering unecessarily.
I, for one aren’t willing to take the moral high ground here, because I eat meat ie. take part in the chicken/pig holocaust.
I guess I’ll take the floor as a vegetarian and say I agree, but that doesn’t mean we can’t triage the extent of animal trials.
Was it really necessary to give monkeys implants? I don’t really know how you’d test that system before putting it in people without testing it on animals first.
Do we really need this kind of implant? Well, it’s a BCI, which lots of teams around the world are working on, so Neuralink would never be the only ones doing trials. As AI get ever better, I think it’s important that we have the ability to communicate with it better and maneuver more easily and naturally in cyberspace.
Public documents obtained by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) and seen by Wired indicate that Neuralink’s macaque subjects were euthanized after suffering various complications, including “bloody diarrhea, partial paralysis, and cerebral edema.”
Those are now posted on its website and cited in the letters it sent to the Securities and Exchange Commission on Wednesday accusing Musk of securities fraud, referencing the reported $280 million Neuralink has raised from investors to create a brain computer interface.
Wired notes a December 2019 experiment outlined in one of the documents saying one monkey had to be euthanized after a piece of Neuralink’s brain implant broke off during the surgical process, leading to infection.
Another macaque mentioned — known as Animal 15 — “began to press her head against the floor for no apparent reason” days after receiving the implant, and her condition only went downhill from there:
Along with claiming that no monkeys have died because of a Neuralink implant, Musk has said the startup “chose terminal mon[k]eys (close to death already)” as test subjects to “minimize risk to healthy monkeys.” However, Wired cites an anonymous former employee saying that is not true:
Last year, the PCRM filed a complaint with the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) alleging that Neuralink’s practices violate the Animal Welfare Act.
The original article contains 369 words, the summary contains 215 words. Saved 42%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I remember way back on reddit after hearing the neuralink buzz, I went to /r/neuralink and asked questions about how they would prevent infections with such procedures.
The answer?
“Well its just on the outer skin and doesn’t really pass the blood brain barrier so its fine”, I felt so validated and was blown away by how laissez-faire they were with infections, guess that little blurb was company policy!
Lol, sorry what? You don’t need to implant an object inside someone to get an infection. A cut is enough. I mean why do MMA fighters suffer staph infections so much?
It’s not even a lackadaisical view for a doctor, it’s just medical wrong. Something tells me these highly respected doctors were likely not that highly respected. I mean what kind of person is Elon going to attract. Think about it.
Reddit is a now a marketing/customer relations platform disguised as a discussion forum, and has been since it got big long ago. Hundreds of bot account post nonsensical bs around the site for appearing natural until it’s their time to defend a corporation with some anecdotes. This is why smaller fediverse instances are important.
Say anything critical about a company on a popular subreddit, and there’s a horde of accounts repeating and upvoting the companies talking points. especially if the company has its own subreddit.
“I hate elon musk but… here’s why it’s actually good thing”
"I hate apple but… "
"I hate trump but… "
"I’m not a fan but… "
"I’m not a conservative but… "
Trying to appear as neutral as possible while defending every negative attention against the mother ship.
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Kinda amazing they go to the SEC for investor fraud instead of the courts for persecution of torture
I wonder if these “scientists” were the type of kids that would burn ants to death with a magnifying glass too
Graduates of the Mengele School for Ethics.
Considering how hard they’re pushing for human testing this isn’t far off.
It’s not torture, it’s a special medical operation.
It’s also for educational purposes only
These accounts do sound awful and I personally don’t condone them, but I’m sure some monkey suffering from medically induced cancer with several tumors doesn’t have fun. Testing on animals is neccessary before any human trials.
i’m just glad the monkeys aren’t suffering anymore. With elon sugarcoating tesla autopilot and neuralink’s impact on monkey brains, how are we supposed to trust this man?
That’s the neat part, you aren’t.
Silly, just look at his bank account! That number clearly indicates he’s the smartest most hard working person alive. How can you not trust that guy?!
removed by mod
I thought they were still testing on animals.
i meant the monkeys literally shitting themselves to death
Eight of the monkeys are still alive and being tested on, it looks like.
Personally I don’t have an issue with the animal testing part. New medical procedures are often tested on animals, that’s how you save lives. But Musk is clearly making shit up here and now tries to proceed with human testing? With the amount of stupid hype he’s spewing about it I don’t believe absolutely anything that is being said about this technology. I say let him go first and show us how useful this is.
SNAC - Stop Neuralink Animal Cruelty.
Debates about animal testing are important and understanding the realities of them is good, but I feel like it’s easy to overlook maybe the most crucial component of this: Musk has openly and clearly lied about these tests and the realities of what point his technology is at, seemingly to mask the grim reality behind it
He’s done that in all his businesses. Arguably that’s what makes him a messiah to his ilk. They think he’s a profit. When sane people realize he’s just a blow hard lying about things or is just completely out to lunch.
Which is pretty standard with these types. Akin to Homes.
Prophet. He may be a profit, but he’s no prophet.
Exactly. Animal testing is neccessary are doesn’t usually look any better than this unfortunately, but lying about it should be (and obviously will be) investigated by SEC because by lying about it he created false impression of this product which benefited the company.
They should put one in musk. Mandatory equitability is the only way to stop treatment like this.
He never uses any of his technology. He has never been in any of his rockets. I bet he even gets driven around in the back of a Maybach or something.
How I wish he had been on the one that blew up.
Which came first?..Neurolink or District 9?
Considering what Elon has become - I don’t want anything to do with him and his stuff. Just like with Zucc.
People don’t become like this,
deleted by creator
removed by mod
Who knew three phase 440 could do that, huh?
Another rich aberration with zero empathy and no connection with the rest of the human race - only himself. Seems to be a lot of that these days. Or at least the worst of them seem to keep getting the headlines.
Here’s the original article
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-pcrm-neuralink-monkey-deaths/
fuck
This makes me sick and so angry. I hope Elon loses it all and dies alone and in pain.
Well thank god this sort of short sighted thinking isn’t prevalent in science or medicine or we’d all be fucked.
*lol a scientist scooped a baby rat’s brain’s out just to satisfy his curiosity about dreams and sleep. You guys think I’m worried about some monkeys dying to help paralyzed people live again, I’m not. Science be like that sometimes, progress of all kinds is built on suffering of some sort, those in charge of the universe do their best to make sure it’s not them. You can hate me and my ideals if you want, but at least I’m not ignorant to the cause and what’s at stake just because I’m emotionally invested in the man behind the curtain.
There’s a difference between giving a monkey AIDS and trying to fix it and shoving some toy in its brain causing it to die a slow painful death.
What is the difference exactly? It’s both animal testing. It’s going to be cruel by its very nature. They’re testing on animals because they’re not allowed to test on humans. If they could they would.
Everyone here acting like this is all black and white. Without animal testing there’s no modern medicine. That is a choise we could have made but didn’t. Thousands of animals had to suffer so that millions of people would not. From an utilitairian point of view it’s a no-brainer but it’s still cruel as fuck and there’s no getting around that. Animal testing or no - both leads to individuals suffering unecessarily.
I, for one aren’t willing to take the moral high ground here, because I eat meat ie. take part in the chicken/pig holocaust.
I guess I’ll take the floor as a vegetarian and say I agree, but that doesn’t mean we can’t triage the extent of animal trials. Was it really necessary to give monkeys implants? I don’t really know how you’d test that system before putting it in people without testing it on animals first. Do we really need this kind of implant? Well, it’s a BCI, which lots of teams around the world are working on, so Neuralink would never be the only ones doing trials. As AI get ever better, I think it’s important that we have the ability to communicate with it better and maneuver more easily and naturally in cyberspace.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Public documents obtained by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) and seen by Wired indicate that Neuralink’s macaque subjects were euthanized after suffering various complications, including “bloody diarrhea, partial paralysis, and cerebral edema.”
Those are now posted on its website and cited in the letters it sent to the Securities and Exchange Commission on Wednesday accusing Musk of securities fraud, referencing the reported $280 million Neuralink has raised from investors to create a brain computer interface.
Wired notes a December 2019 experiment outlined in one of the documents saying one monkey had to be euthanized after a piece of Neuralink’s brain implant broke off during the surgical process, leading to infection.
Another macaque mentioned — known as Animal 15 — “began to press her head against the floor for no apparent reason” days after receiving the implant, and her condition only went downhill from there:
Along with claiming that no monkeys have died because of a Neuralink implant, Musk has said the startup “chose terminal mon[k]eys (close to death already)” as test subjects to “minimize risk to healthy monkeys.” However, Wired cites an anonymous former employee saying that is not true:
Last year, the PCRM filed a complaint with the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) alleging that Neuralink’s practices violate the Animal Welfare Act.
The original article contains 369 words, the summary contains 215 words. Saved 42%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I remember way back on reddit after hearing the neuralink buzz, I went to /r/neuralink and asked questions about how they would prevent infections with such procedures.
The answer?
“Well its just on the outer skin and doesn’t really pass the blood brain barrier so its fine”, I felt so validated and was blown away by how laissez-faire they were with infections, guess that little blurb was company policy!
Lol, sorry what? You don’t need to implant an object inside someone to get an infection. A cut is enough. I mean why do MMA fighters suffer staph infections so much?
It’s not even a lackadaisical view for a doctor, it’s just medical wrong. Something tells me these highly respected doctors were likely not that highly respected. I mean what kind of person is Elon going to attract. Think about it.
Reddit is a now a marketing/customer relations platform disguised as a discussion forum, and has been since it got big long ago. Hundreds of bot account post nonsensical bs around the site for appearing natural until it’s their time to defend a corporation with some anecdotes. This is why smaller fediverse instances are important.
Say anything critical about a company on a popular subreddit, and there’s a horde of accounts repeating and upvoting the companies talking points. especially if the company has its own subreddit.
“I hate elon musk but… here’s why it’s actually good thing” "I hate apple but… " "I hate trump but… " "I’m not a fan but… " "I’m not a conservative but… "
Trying to appear as neutral as possible while defending every negative attention against the mother ship.
Same thing for (international) politics too, obviously.
That and endless content and comment reposts.
It was bad when I left, it’s gotten worse now that some of the better mods and more prolific posters have left.
That’s hardly fair. They also recruit for hate groups.
The first human to test this BS should be elon
He’s too chicken. Just like how he won’t ride in his own rockets (which honestly probably safer than using FSD)