In a show of solidarity with the Palestinian-led BDS movement, indie label Ice Water Games has removed one of its projects, open-world tactics RPG Tenderfoot Tactics, from the Xbox store.
In a show of solidarity with the Palestinian-led BDS movement, indie label Ice Water Games has removed one of its projects, open-world tactics RPG Tenderfoot Tactics, from the Xbox store.
I have a lot of issues with the BDS boycotts having no actionable end states but… there are a lot of reasons to not want to give any business to microsoft at all at this point (borderline weekly layoffs at this point) and… their market share sure ain’t what it used to be.
Open ended boycotts don’t work. People MIGHT boycott until they see nothing changing and give up and companies are under no incentive to change anything because it won’t make a difference. It is just a storm to be weathered.
Whereas a boycott with an actionable end state gives the company something to change if they don’t want to try to outlast the outrage, as it were.
Its why the traditional protest call and response is “What do we want?” “X!” “When do we want it?” “Now!”. It immediately makes it clear what will make the angry people go away.
For the BDS boycotts? Microsoft is sort of “Break these major contracts in ways that will make every single potential business partner wary going forward”. The Disney boycott, from what I can gather, is basically “tell gal gadot et all to fuck off”. Which… agreed. But you can also just look at the ongoing lawsuits from the last time they fired a chud for why there will be no public statement and the best we can hope for is to silently stop hiring zionists.
Which is my problem. Most of the BDS boycotts are effectively “burn down your entire company and then we’ll give you money again”. Which… yeah. I still try to support them to some degree (most of what I have settled on is “I’ll grab what I want later so that I don’t contribute to the big numbers on launch”) but there is no end and it is just going to fade away as more and more people decide they want their shiny.
And, for what it is worth, I think at least some of the folk behind these boycotts understands that. The MS boycott discussion was particularly good about stuff like “If you can’t stop using Teams of Office, consider changing to this business plan that is cheaper and turns off copilot”. Which speaks to “We know you aren’t going to drastically change your life but you were probably going to do this so you might as well do it and claim it is related to human rights”
Surely the actionable end state for Microsoft is to cease their AI support in Palestine? Of course they won’t so functionally this doesn’t really matter, but I agree that it makes sense to have a stated goal even if it’s just for the purposes of explaining the boycott to other people.
you missed the Hopes Others Will Do The Same part.
they’re pulling their game as part of the larger BDS boycott. the point is to put pressure on complicit companies (in this case microsoft) for them to stop working with israel
the IDF won’t care, but if enough devs pull their games, and if enough people stop using xbox products & services, microsoft will care.
Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. Palestine leadership may not be great (or even good), but at least they’re not actively carrying out a genocide.
but at least they’re not actively carrying out a genocide.
It’s simply because they aren’t able to. Look man, Israel is undoubtedly carrying out a genocide and Netanyahu is war criminal who should be given a death sentence for the things he has done. But Israel at least pretends to be good. But if Palestine had the kind of military backing Israel does, Israel would simply not exist on the map today. And the Palestinians would be openly celebrating over the dead bodies of Israeli people.
It’s just sad that we live in a time that is more polarized than ever. Very few are actually interested in the truth. Most just want to stick to their prejudiced opinions no matter what and I see this in both the left and the right.
But if Palestine had the kind of military backing Israel does, Israel would simply not exist on the map today. And the Palestinians would be openly celebrating over the dead bodies of Israeli people.
What is this based on? Like, could you (by any means) back up this claim?
I hadn’t seen it before, and I can definitely understand why its content is disturbing.
Granted, as I’m unable to understand the context beyond what AP themselves have provided, I’ll (for the sake of the argument) accept this as Palestinians celebrating an attack on the US.
Then, my initial intention was to dissect the argument and explain why I can’t agree with your extrapolation[1]. However, to my surprise, your extrapolation might not be as far-fetched as I initially thought 😅. But, this ultimately depends on what you mean precisely. So, please allow me to ask further clarifications:
With “Israel would simply not exist on the map today.”, what do you mean exactly? Like, what would come in its place? What would become of the Israeli people?
With “And the Palestinians would be openly celebrating over the dead bodies of Israeli people.”, do you mean something similar like we see on the footage? Or something more grandiose? (And perhaps more sinister?)
Let me know if you still aren’t convinced.
Please allow me to take you up on that offer 😜.
That is, “But if Palestine had the kind of military backing Israel does, Israel would simply not exist on the map today. And the Palestinians would be openly celebrating over the dead bodies of Israeli people.”↩︎
Firstly, I’m glad we can have a civil discourse on this topic rather than resorting to personal attacks and namecalling. I also appreciate the fact that you seem like someone who actually wants to get to the truth rather than defending your stance no matter what.
accept this as Palestinians celebrating an attack on the US.
You’re right. The people in the video are in fact publicly celebrating the 9/11 attacks which took the lives of thousands of innocent people. As you can see, it’s not just grown ass men who are celebrating, but children and women too. If this is the level of hatred they have towards the United States, do I really need to explain how severe their hatred for Israel would be?
Like, what would come in its place?
That’s an easy question to answer. There would be one country and it would be called Palestine.
do you mean something similar like we see on the footage? Or something more grandiose?
I honestly don’t know. But they will be celebrating. And they will want the whole world to see them celebrating. That’s for sure.
Again I want to be very clear that I’m not an Israeli sympathizer. I’m just trying to make a point that the Palestinians aren’t the saints that the liberals (btw I’m a liberal myself) often portray them to be.
Your reply is much appreciated, fam! Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to return right away. I thank you for your patience! Btw, I’m not native. So, if I misuse any terms/words/phrases or whatnot; my apologies. Usually, I put in some significant effort to alleviate this. Sadly, I didn’t quite have the chance to do so this time. Thank you for your understanding!
Firstly, I’m glad we can have a civil discourse on this topic rather than resorting to personal attacks and namecalling. I also appreciate the fact that you seem like someone who actually wants to get to the truth rather than defending your stance no matter what.
Thanks fam for the compliments! Your engagement is (I think) (at least) equally commendable!
You’re right. The people in the video are in fact publicly celebrating the 9/11 attacks which took the lives of thousands of innocent people. As you can see, it’s not just grown ass men who are celebrating, but children and women too. If this is the level of hatred they have towards the United States, do I really need to explain how severe their hatred for Israel would be?
Btw, I understood the implied context of the footage. But, it would be intellectually dishonest if I didn’t take into account the framing at hand. Cuz, if we were to be very critical of the footage itself (so without AP’s provided text as guidance), then there’s nothing explicitly there that connects those celebrations to the 9/11 killings; no burning of American flags or anything that would imply it. Granted, I assume neither of us speak Arabic. So that doesn’t help either 😅.
Just to be clear, I’m well aware that this story is pretty much uncontested[1]. So I’m not actually disputing it. But, with the benefit of hindsight[2], it’s hard to completely deny any ulterior motives for broadcasting said celebrations.
And to push back: is it sociologically-speaking strange for them to be glad that the biggest support of their rivals has received a retribution?
That’s an easy question to answer. There would be one country and it would be called Palestine.
History has indeed taught us that that[3]’s a pretty likely outcome. But, I was also curious to hear your take on the other question. Namely, “What would become of the Israeli people?”.
But they will be celebrating.
Likely indeed.
And they will want the whole world to see them celebrating. That’s for sure.
Again I want to be very clear that I’m not an Israeli sympathizer. I’m just trying to make a point that the Palestinians aren’t the saints that the liberals (btw I’m a liberal myself) often portray them to be.
If sainthood is achieved through suffering alone, then I’d argue they would make a good chance. But yeah, I get where you’re hinting at.
I did find this, but it seems to be a biased take. ↩︎
That is, the eventual wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. ↩︎
Nation states only exist since relatively recently. So, there has never been a Palestinian state or something. However, Muslim rule has dictated over those lands. My reading of history informs me that while Jews definitely weren’t first-class citizens, they were fortunately not persecuted like we saw in other parts of the world. ↩︎
Earlier this month, the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement added Microsoft to its list of priority targets due to the company’s intense entanglement with the Israeli military via Azure cloud and AI services.
Earlier this month, the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement added Microsoft to its list of priority targets due to the company’s intense entanglement with the Israeli military via Azure cloud and AI services. Specifically, BDS called for supporters to boycott Xbox, including Game Pass, individual games, and future purchases of consoles and peripherals. Now, in a show of solidarity, indie label Ice Water Games has removed one of its projects, open-world tactics RPG Tenderfoot Tactics, from the Xbox store.
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I have a lot of issues with the BDS boycotts having no actionable end states but… there are a lot of reasons to not want to give any business to microsoft at all at this point (borderline weekly layoffs at this point) and… their market share sure ain’t what it used to be.
wdym by actionable end state?
Open ended boycotts don’t work. People MIGHT boycott until they see nothing changing and give up and companies are under no incentive to change anything because it won’t make a difference. It is just a storm to be weathered.
Whereas a boycott with an actionable end state gives the company something to change if they don’t want to try to outlast the outrage, as it were.
Its why the traditional protest call and response is “What do we want?” “X!” “When do we want it?” “Now!”. It immediately makes it clear what will make the angry people go away.
For the BDS boycotts? Microsoft is sort of “Break these major contracts in ways that will make every single potential business partner wary going forward”. The Disney boycott, from what I can gather, is basically “tell gal gadot et all to fuck off”. Which… agreed. But you can also just look at the ongoing lawsuits from the last time they fired a chud for why there will be no public statement and the best we can hope for is to silently stop hiring zionists.
Which is my problem. Most of the BDS boycotts are effectively “burn down your entire company and then we’ll give you money again”. Which… yeah. I still try to support them to some degree (most of what I have settled on is “I’ll grab what I want later so that I don’t contribute to the big numbers on launch”) but there is no end and it is just going to fade away as more and more people decide they want their shiny.
And, for what it is worth, I think at least some of the folk behind these boycotts understands that. The MS boycott discussion was particularly good about stuff like “If you can’t stop using Teams of Office, consider changing to this business plan that is cheaper and turns off copilot”. Which speaks to “We know you aren’t going to drastically change your life but you were probably going to do this so you might as well do it and claim it is related to human rights”
Surely the actionable end state for Microsoft is to cease their AI support in Palestine? Of course they won’t so functionally this doesn’t really matter, but I agree that it makes sense to have a stated goal even if it’s just for the purposes of explaining the boycott to other people.
Feels like likes and prayers.
Pulling off a game doesn’t really change anything.
As like any military force would even care the slightest a random developer stopped their game.
You either don’t understand BDS or you are not intentionally being obtuse.
you missed the Hopes Others Will Do The Same part.
they’re pulling their game as part of the larger BDS boycott. the point is to put pressure on complicit companies (in this case microsoft) for them to stop working with israel
the IDF won’t care, but if enough devs pull their games, and if enough people stop using xbox products & services, microsoft will care.
removed by mod
Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. Palestine leadership may not be great (or even good), but at least they’re not actively carrying out a genocide.
It’s simply because they aren’t able to. Look man, Israel is undoubtedly carrying out a genocide and Netanyahu is war criminal who should be given a death sentence for the things he has done. But Israel at least pretends to be good. But if Palestine had the kind of military backing Israel does, Israel would simply not exist on the map today. And the Palestinians would be openly celebrating over the dead bodies of Israeli people.
Agreed. Republicans only back Israel because of money. Idealistically they have far more in common with Hamas
Not just Hamas. The culture and values of the Palestinian people in general often align more closely with American conservatives than with liberals.
Gotta love those down votes for telling the truth right? Leftists hate hearing it but I’m not afraid to say it.
It’s just sad that we live in a time that is more polarized than ever. Very few are actually interested in the truth. Most just want to stick to their prejudiced opinions no matter what and I see this in both the left and the right.
What is this based on? Like, could you (by any means) back up this claim?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UucjbGmJILk
Let me know if you still aren’t convinced.
Thank you for providing that video!
I hadn’t seen it before, and I can definitely understand why its content is disturbing.
Granted, as I’m unable to understand the context beyond what AP themselves have provided, I’ll (for the sake of the argument) accept this as Palestinians celebrating an attack on the US.
Then, my initial intention was to dissect the argument and explain why I can’t agree with your extrapolation[1]. However, to my surprise, your extrapolation might not be as far-fetched as I initially thought 😅. But, this ultimately depends on what you mean precisely. So, please allow me to ask further clarifications:
Please allow me to take you up on that offer 😜.
That is, “But if Palestine had the kind of military backing Israel does, Israel would simply not exist on the map today. And the Palestinians would be openly celebrating over the dead bodies of Israeli people.” ↩︎
Firstly, I’m glad we can have a civil discourse on this topic rather than resorting to personal attacks and namecalling. I also appreciate the fact that you seem like someone who actually wants to get to the truth rather than defending your stance no matter what.
You’re right. The people in the video are in fact publicly celebrating the 9/11 attacks which took the lives of thousands of innocent people. As you can see, it’s not just grown ass men who are celebrating, but children and women too. If this is the level of hatred they have towards the United States, do I really need to explain how severe their hatred for Israel would be?
That’s an easy question to answer. There would be one country and it would be called Palestine.
I honestly don’t know. But they will be celebrating. And they will want the whole world to see them celebrating. That’s for sure.
No problem. Here’s a few things for you to check
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinarium_discotheque_bombing#Aftermath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWOw7YI7vzo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xPNTbtUHVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-wyW-7iJwU
Again I want to be very clear that I’m not an Israeli sympathizer. I’m just trying to make a point that the Palestinians aren’t the saints that the liberals (btw I’m a liberal myself) often portray them to be.
Your reply is much appreciated, fam! Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to return right away. I thank you for your patience! Btw, I’m not native. So, if I misuse any terms/words/phrases or whatnot; my apologies. Usually, I put in some significant effort to alleviate this. Sadly, I didn’t quite have the chance to do so this time. Thank you for your understanding!
Thanks fam for the compliments! Your engagement is (I think) (at least) equally commendable!
Btw, I understood the implied context of the footage. But, it would be intellectually dishonest if I didn’t take into account the framing at hand. Cuz, if we were to be very critical of the footage itself (so without AP’s provided text as guidance), then there’s nothing explicitly there that connects those celebrations to the 9/11 killings; no burning of American flags or anything that would imply it. Granted, I assume neither of us speak Arabic. So that doesn’t help either 😅.
Just to be clear, I’m well aware that this story is pretty much uncontested[1]. So I’m not actually disputing it. But, with the benefit of hindsight[2], it’s hard to completely deny any ulterior motives for broadcasting said celebrations.
And to push back: is it sociologically-speaking strange for them to be glad that the biggest support of their rivals has received a retribution?
History has indeed taught us that that[3]’s a pretty likely outcome. But, I was also curious to hear your take on the other question. Namely, “What would become of the Israeli people?”.
Likely indeed.
For this, I’m not so sure. But it could be.
Ah, another celebration. I’m starting to notice a pattern :P .
Another one.
This video I didn’t pay a lot of attention to as the media outlet didn’t seem to be as reliable as I’d like.
I think I got the message by now :P .
If sainthood is achieved through suffering alone, then I’d argue they would make a good chance. But yeah, I get where you’re hinting at.
I did find this, but it seems to be a biased take. ↩︎
That is, the eventual wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. ↩︎
Nation states only exist since relatively recently. So, there has never been a Palestinian state or something. However, Muslim rule has dictated over those lands. My reading of history informs me that while Jews definitely weren’t first-class citizens, they were fortunately not persecuted like we saw in other parts of the world. ↩︎
No I shouldn’t
What did XBox do/say?
First paragraph dude…
First paragraph of the article: