Agreed; the idea of “you can kill any NPC, do anything you want, and still beat the game” doesn’t sound appealing to me. If there really is that much freedom in how the game is “completed”, then it doesn’t sound like it’s earned in any way. Just make it a sandbox game with no end at that point.
I’d much rather the freedom to do anything you want, but then have consequences and close off possible routes or even the ability to complete the game altogether. Maybe that is what this game actually does, I don’t know, I admit I didn’t read the article. But the idea of “do anything, still win!” isn’t something I want.
Go play Morrowind. Its literally this. And doing it where you murder everyone and fail every quest. Is easily the hardest path and very much the most earned.
Morrowind was my first ES game, played it when it came out! I never deviated that far from the path to kill the important NPCs for the main quest (well, anything I guessed was main quest), out of fear of locking myself out of finishing the game. I learned early in the game that you could screw yourself over…
Don’t you have to use some exploits to beat the game if you kill certain NPCs, though?
I really love the game desing behind this system. The game is on a timer, but instead of time going foward all the time, the quest “cost” time.
Way of the samurai games did this kind of trick back in the day. In those games the day was divided in to four parts, morning, noon, evening and night. Player had unlimited time to wander the game world, but once they did something big, the time would go foward and depending on what you did the story would go in to different direction. After 5 full days the game would come to a finale, but how you acted, effected who was alive and wich side of the final conflict you would be.
The game ending and story coming to a finale does not necessarily mean you win.
If the game is fun to play and one play trough does not take forever to finish, i can see my self playing the game multible times trough and trying to find the way to make everything end the way i want.
That added context puts it into a different light for me. Don’t think it would be something I’m interested in, but can see what the appeal is for other people
Not the original commentor, but i think they meant more narrative failure than mechanical failure.
Like “You failed to save person from burning house, and the failure changes how the story unfolds.” Not “You died to a boss and you need to try again.”
First example of narrative failure that came to mind is from Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
There is objective where you need to protect a chrashed pilot from enemies, but if you fail the game does not fail and load previous save. The game goes on and characters death effects the dialogue and a certain story point later in the game.
In souls games, no matter how many times you die, the narrative does not change. Dying effects you only in mechanical sense, where you might loose some recources, but you will never lose them permanently, but there are narrative moments that you can fail. Like in bloodborne if you summon certain npc to your haven, he starts to murder other people you have brought there.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
Rules
1. Submissions have to be related to games
Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.
This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil
No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.
We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.
3. No excessive self-promotion
Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.
This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.
4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts
This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you’re submitting before posting to see if it’s already been posted.
We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.
5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW
Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.
No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.
6. No linking to piracy
Don’t share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.
We don’t want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.
I really like it when quests can fail and failing actually opens another path to something. Possibility of failure in general is good as well.
Agreed; the idea of “you can kill any NPC, do anything you want, and still beat the game” doesn’t sound appealing to me. If there really is that much freedom in how the game is “completed”, then it doesn’t sound like it’s earned in any way. Just make it a sandbox game with no end at that point.
I’d much rather the freedom to do anything you want, but then have consequences and close off possible routes or even the ability to complete the game altogether. Maybe that is what this game actually does, I don’t know, I admit I didn’t read the article. But the idea of “do anything, still win!” isn’t something I want.
Go play Morrowind. Its literally this. And doing it where you murder everyone and fail every quest. Is easily the hardest path and very much the most earned.
Morrowind was my first ES game, played it when it came out! I never deviated that far from the path to kill the important NPCs for the main quest (well, anything I guessed was main quest), out of fear of locking myself out of finishing the game. I learned early in the game that you could screw yourself over…
Don’t you have to use some exploits to beat the game if you kill certain NPCs, though?
Nope, just a fuck load of booze chugging and magic to heal and fortify your hp.
The only problem you have to solve to beat morrowind is the damage that sunder and keening do to you.
You can solve it via wraith guard or just make your self so unbelievably tanky that it’s trivial.
I really love the game desing behind this system. The game is on a timer, but instead of time going foward all the time, the quest “cost” time.
Way of the samurai games did this kind of trick back in the day. In those games the day was divided in to four parts, morning, noon, evening and night. Player had unlimited time to wander the game world, but once they did something big, the time would go foward and depending on what you did the story would go in to different direction. After 5 full days the game would come to a finale, but how you acted, effected who was alive and wich side of the final conflict you would be.
The game ending and story coming to a finale does not necessarily mean you win.
If the game is fun to play and one play trough does not take forever to finish, i can see my self playing the game multible times trough and trying to find the way to make everything end the way i want.
That added context puts it into a different light for me. Don’t think it would be something I’m interested in, but can see what the appeal is for other people
You may like TTRPGs.
I do! Especially not overcomplicated with rules. Monster of the week is one of my favorites.
To anyone that likes learning, yes. Then there are the people who are still crying about Dark Souls not having a difficulty slider.
Unfortunately there will always be more of the second group than the first.
Not the original commentor, but i think they meant more narrative failure than mechanical failure.
Like “You failed to save person from burning house, and the failure changes how the story unfolds.” Not “You died to a boss and you need to try again.”
First example of narrative failure that came to mind is from Deus Ex: Human Revolution. There is objective where you need to protect a chrashed pilot from enemies, but if you fail the game does not fail and load previous save. The game goes on and characters death effects the dialogue and a certain story point later in the game.
In souls games, no matter how many times you die, the narrative does not change. Dying effects you only in mechanical sense, where you might loose some recources, but you will never lose them permanently, but there are narrative moments that you can fail. Like in bloodborne if you summon certain npc to your haven, he starts to murder other people you have brought there.