Can someone explain the appeal to these games to me?
I did play several hours of Skyrim with some mods last year but the combat felt clunky, the loot felt like a pain in the ass to manage, and there didn’t really seem to be a good story and the world felt a bit hollow.
I do realize their age, of course, and this is an unfair comparison but I had a much greater time with Elden ring and the Witcher 3. Both those games are so dense with vast beautiful worlds.
For me, personally, these games are the closest thing on a computer to a nearly endless sandbox tabletop rpg experience. I don’t like having to do some grand “save the world” narrative that RPGs push you into, and in Skyrim I can avoid it after the intro or mod it out. Then I create characters like a tabletop RPG (I develop a backstory and where I choose to go and what I choose to do is based on the character’s personality in my mind) and essentially play it like it is a solo tabletop game where the engine takes care of a lot of the work.
I haven’t played in years, though, because I can’t get the same level of immersion as I did when playing for 5 hours straight before having kids.
The openness of it. I can play as I want and go where I want. I’ve played Skyrim since its release and never have finished the main story. It’s not the main attraction. There’s so much lore carried through the games since the 90s , it’s endless.
The appeal is that these games were made well before Elden Ring and Witcher 3; before ‘open world’ was mainstream. Every single NPCs had daily routines, quests were dynamically generated, and what you do in the game had consequences beyond pissing one character off. This made triggering specific quests or events difficult if you were just going ‘off the hip’, and made replayability a big feature. Because of these systems, there were several interesting “game breaking” issues, but these things were charming in their own right due to how new all these systems were put together with almost nothing like it.
In retrospect, not all the “game breaking” issues were truly understood at the time, and most are a consequence of several factors - the most common being that some quests activate behind the scenes and prevent other quests from starting, even if you haven’t picked them up and added them to your journal. So it is possible to do mostly everything in the game with careful planning. But at the time, it really did seem like each playthrough was unique.
It is/was also highly moddable for its time. While it took a long time to detail every aspect of the game, today there is nothing mods can’t do. Even Witcher 3 mods can’t do a bunch of things that Skyrim mods can. And it’s a good gateway into learning how to mod, and modding can be just as fun as playing. Some mod guides are so long it takes days or weeks to implement. It can get quite insane, with some people maintaining multiple ‘mod versions’: one to play (most playthroughs won’t let you add/remove mods mid-play), one to test new stuff, and one to keep up-to-date with whatever mod guide/group they are following (you know, for fun…and the next playthrough).
But mostly it’s nostalgia, like how some people like older Zelda or Final Fantasy games. Or how you might play that pointless cozy game you played a million times because it connects you to something deeper to what was going on at that time. We know TES games are pretty bad in a lot of regards, but graphics, gameplay, or story isn’t what we are after. Hell, there are now adults booting up Minecraft because it’s just the game they grew up with.
Nostalgia is a hard drug. I replayed Pokemon Red easily 10 times over the years. I tried Pokemon Gold (an objectively much better game) probably about the same amount of times, but I could never get through it, because I didn’t play as a kid and thus have no nostalgia for it.
I have more nostalgia for Keitai Denjū Telefang, which I played in bootlegged form mis-labelled as Pokemon Diamond (that was before the real Pokemon Diamond was released), and even though this bootleg is horrible in quality, it’s easier for me to play than Pokemon Gold.
Your Pokémon comparison reminds me of something I’ve noticed with gaming. Sometimes the game just has to hit me at the right time, regardless of nostalgia. I’ve had games that I bounced off of multiple times, then years later I decide to give it a go and get sucked in. I’m fairly sure this sometimes happens due to other factors in my life at the time (situations I’m currently experiencing, things I haven’t experienced, etc.).
After ignoring the TES games my whole life, I first played Oblivion a few years ago, and for once in a very long time, I felt the same feeling I did when playing GTA San Andreas for the first time as a little kid.
I spent the first 10hrs or so just stealing stuff and fighting in the Arena, didn’t even touch the main story. In Oblivion, there is soooo much stuff to do, and I didn’t even mod it.
Elden Ring is definitely a great game, but it’s pale in comparison to Oblivion when it comes to “freedom to do anything”. Even Skyrim couldn’t top that for me. Don’t know about Witcher 3 though, I have yet to play it.
Comparing Witcher 3/Elden Ring to Skyrim is just doing it a disservice. Skyrim released in 2011 alongside the original Witcher game and the first Dark Souls.
The first witcher game was released in 2007. The second one was released in 2011. The witcher 3 was released in 2015. Witcher 2 was definitely more polished feeling to me. I found it felt very similar to The Witcher 3.
If you’re talking about the skyrim/oblivion franchise in particular, it has a wide open feel that many players connect with the first times games gave them real freedom to explore a world and not just throw them on rails to go from place to place. I do think a lot of it is nostalgia. I don’t think the games have aged too well from a standpoint of what we expect games to offer nowadays.
Elden Ring was a much more recent attempt at a sprawling game, and had a style of action/adventure game closer to “adult zelda” but also had that feeling of freedom that players liked, and Witcher 3 was just all of that but with a different style and different focus. Witcher 3 was a product of these kinds of games and evolved from them, so it’s expected that they would have figured out a few extra tricks to get you to connect, I do agree there was a lot more work that went into Witcher 3 in terms of making a world that felt convincing and solid. Not everyone wants that all the time though.
Also, Witcher was about a dude in a grittier world. Skyrim was about your view of sparkling mushroom caves and dragons from behind a bow. They both try different ways to engage you and they both appeal to different types of players.
Did you play it at the time it was released or did u try to go back later? Skyrim was and is a legendary game for a reason, to each their own but in its day it was undeniably the best RPG game in existence and it held that title for years! The story is excellent. Games like this and enshrouded will also never achieve full enjoyment in those that don’t bother reading the game lore. If yo skip all the books and never read any I cans see why you wouldn’t get as immersed as say in the Witcher 3 story where you have more cutscenes fed to you. And don’t get it messed up, witcher 3 is a legend too and probably my all time favourite. But it did not offer me the same replayability Skyrim does. And the last point to Skyrim is it runs good on my potato spec laptop so I can play it on about anything!
This. The game only seems dull on the surface but the more you dig into the text and the background the lore is just sprawling.
And yea, Elder Scrolls are as replayable as your imagination while Witcher is only as replayable as the different dialogue options you pick from. Every game you still play “a Witcher” and there is only so far that can take you
The Seinfeld effect. Today they seem clunky, janky, unpolished or uninspired. Because you have way better modern examples to compare them to. The catch is that when they came out, they were the first. People have said the same about the Beatles, the rolling stones, the og legend of Zelda, counter strike, etc.
This is exactly what they are doing, too. They are comparing a game from 2011 to games that came out 4 years later (Witcher 3 in 2015) and over a decade later (Elden Ring in 2022)
Skyrim released alongside the OG Witcher and Dark Souls.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
Rules
1. Submissions have to be related to games
Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.
This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil
No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.
We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.
3. No excessive self-promotion
Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.
This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.
4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts
This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you’re submitting before posting to see if it’s already been posted.
We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.
5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW
Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.
No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.
6. No linking to piracy
Don’t share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.
We don’t want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.
Can someone explain the appeal to these games to me?
I did play several hours of Skyrim with some mods last year but the combat felt clunky, the loot felt like a pain in the ass to manage, and there didn’t really seem to be a good story and the world felt a bit hollow.
I do realize their age, of course, and this is an unfair comparison but I had a much greater time with Elden ring and the Witcher 3. Both those games are so dense with vast beautiful worlds.
For me, personally, these games are the closest thing on a computer to a nearly endless sandbox tabletop rpg experience. I don’t like having to do some grand “save the world” narrative that RPGs push you into, and in Skyrim I can avoid it after the intro or mod it out. Then I create characters like a tabletop RPG (I develop a backstory and where I choose to go and what I choose to do is based on the character’s personality in my mind) and essentially play it like it is a solo tabletop game where the engine takes care of a lot of the work.
I haven’t played in years, though, because I can’t get the same level of immersion as I did when playing for 5 hours straight before having kids.
The openness of it. I can play as I want and go where I want. I’ve played Skyrim since its release and never have finished the main story. It’s not the main attraction. There’s so much lore carried through the games since the 90s , it’s endless.
The appeal is that these games were made well before Elden Ring and Witcher 3; before ‘open world’ was mainstream. Every single NPCs had daily routines, quests were dynamically generated, and what you do in the game had consequences beyond pissing one character off. This made triggering specific quests or events difficult if you were just going ‘off the hip’, and made replayability a big feature. Because of these systems, there were several interesting “game breaking” issues, but these things were charming in their own right due to how new all these systems were put together with almost nothing like it.
In retrospect, not all the “game breaking” issues were truly understood at the time, and most are a consequence of several factors - the most common being that some quests activate behind the scenes and prevent other quests from starting, even if you haven’t picked them up and added them to your journal. So it is possible to do mostly everything in the game with careful planning. But at the time, it really did seem like each playthrough was unique.
It is/was also highly moddable for its time. While it took a long time to detail every aspect of the game, today there is nothing mods can’t do. Even Witcher 3 mods can’t do a bunch of things that Skyrim mods can. And it’s a good gateway into learning how to mod, and modding can be just as fun as playing. Some mod guides are so long it takes days or weeks to implement. It can get quite insane, with some people maintaining multiple ‘mod versions’: one to play (most playthroughs won’t let you add/remove mods mid-play), one to test new stuff, and one to keep up-to-date with whatever mod guide/group they are following (you know, for fun…and the next playthrough).
But mostly it’s nostalgia, like how some people like older Zelda or Final Fantasy games. Or how you might play that pointless cozy game you played a million times because it connects you to something deeper to what was going on at that time. We know TES games are pretty bad in a lot of regards, but graphics, gameplay, or story isn’t what we are after. Hell, there are now adults booting up Minecraft because it’s just the game they grew up with.
Nostalgia is a hard drug. I replayed Pokemon Red easily 10 times over the years. I tried Pokemon Gold (an objectively much better game) probably about the same amount of times, but I could never get through it, because I didn’t play as a kid and thus have no nostalgia for it.
I have more nostalgia for Keitai Denjū Telefang, which I played in bootlegged form mis-labelled as Pokemon Diamond (that was before the real Pokemon Diamond was released), and even though this bootleg is horrible in quality, it’s easier for me to play than Pokemon Gold.
Your Pokémon comparison reminds me of something I’ve noticed with gaming. Sometimes the game just has to hit me at the right time, regardless of nostalgia. I’ve had games that I bounced off of multiple times, then years later I decide to give it a go and get sucked in. I’m fairly sure this sometimes happens due to other factors in my life at the time (situations I’m currently experiencing, things I haven’t experienced, etc.).
After ignoring the TES games my whole life, I first played Oblivion a few years ago, and for once in a very long time, I felt the same feeling I did when playing GTA San Andreas for the first time as a little kid.
I spent the first 10hrs or so just stealing stuff and fighting in the Arena, didn’t even touch the main story. In Oblivion, there is soooo much stuff to do, and I didn’t even mod it.
Elden Ring is definitely a great game, but it’s pale in comparison to Oblivion when it comes to “freedom to do anything”. Even Skyrim couldn’t top that for me. Don’t know about Witcher 3 though, I have yet to play it.
Comparing Witcher 3/Elden Ring to Skyrim is just doing it a disservice. Skyrim released in 2011 alongside the original Witcher game and the first Dark Souls.
The first witcher game was released in 2007. The second one was released in 2011. The witcher 3 was released in 2015. Witcher 2 was definitely more polished feeling to me. I found it felt very similar to The Witcher 3.
Oops, read my dates wrong it seems.
If you’re talking about the skyrim/oblivion franchise in particular, it has a wide open feel that many players connect with the first times games gave them real freedom to explore a world and not just throw them on rails to go from place to place. I do think a lot of it is nostalgia. I don’t think the games have aged too well from a standpoint of what we expect games to offer nowadays.
Elden Ring was a much more recent attempt at a sprawling game, and had a style of action/adventure game closer to “adult zelda” but also had that feeling of freedom that players liked, and Witcher 3 was just all of that but with a different style and different focus. Witcher 3 was a product of these kinds of games and evolved from them, so it’s expected that they would have figured out a few extra tricks to get you to connect, I do agree there was a lot more work that went into Witcher 3 in terms of making a world that felt convincing and solid. Not everyone wants that all the time though.
Also, Witcher was about a dude in a grittier world. Skyrim was about your view of sparkling mushroom caves and dragons from behind a bow. They both try different ways to engage you and they both appeal to different types of players.
Did you play it at the time it was released or did u try to go back later? Skyrim was and is a legendary game for a reason, to each their own but in its day it was undeniably the best RPG game in existence and it held that title for years! The story is excellent. Games like this and enshrouded will also never achieve full enjoyment in those that don’t bother reading the game lore. If yo skip all the books and never read any I cans see why you wouldn’t get as immersed as say in the Witcher 3 story where you have more cutscenes fed to you. And don’t get it messed up, witcher 3 is a legend too and probably my all time favourite. But it did not offer me the same replayability Skyrim does. And the last point to Skyrim is it runs good on my potato spec laptop so I can play it on about anything!
This. The game only seems dull on the surface but the more you dig into the text and the background the lore is just sprawling.
And yea, Elder Scrolls are as replayable as your imagination while Witcher is only as replayable as the different dialogue options you pick from. Every game you still play “a Witcher” and there is only so far that can take you
The Seinfeld effect. Today they seem clunky, janky, unpolished or uninspired. Because you have way better modern examples to compare them to. The catch is that when they came out, they were the first. People have said the same about the Beatles, the rolling stones, the og legend of Zelda, counter strike, etc.
This is exactly what they are doing, too. They are comparing a game from 2011 to games that came out 4 years later (Witcher 3 in 2015) and over a decade later (Elden Ring in 2022)
Skyrim released alongside the OG Witcher and Dark Souls.
Citizen Kane.
You watch it now, and it’s just a regular movie. But in 1941, it was incredibly unorthodox. It set the benchmark for modern movies.