All games are time wasting. Rogue-like games don’t have no progress, it’s just not the same kind of progress other genres tend to have.

I think it’s really funny to hate a certain genre of entertainment because it wastes time though. The ultimate point of all entertainment is to waste time and produce dopamine.

I mean like, it’s cool to not like rogue-likes because you don’t like starting over. That’s a valid opinion. But saying it’s because you don’t want to waste time is kind of hilarious

Damn. Well that was my shot

I don’t know about this anymore, but back in the day Titanium Backup had a “detach from market” feature you might try. Only works on rooted phones but since you are side loading apps I’m guessing that’s a step you’ve already taken.

It has been several years and probably 8 Android versions since I used Titanium Backup but it could still be there

I meant that to say, it’s a genre that deserves to be distinguished from just one of the many games that define it.

As a rephrase of that comment, defining the 5 games I listed after one game that basically just came before them would be dishonest because of how different those games all are from Slay the Spire and each other. That’s why the genre is named after what they all have in common, which is a mashup of two existing genres.

What you’re proposing would be like renaming the first person shooter genre to “halo-like” or “call of duty-like” just because those games predate a lot of others and people like them. It’s unnecessary and loses the descriptive quality of the name it has.

The genre can be called “rogue like deck builder” all you want, we all know what it really is: “Spirelike”

Well, you did. And you also directly acknowledged that the genre already has a name in the same sentence.

It seems to be your opinion that it needs another one, even though the name it has is already so well established that it has its own steam tag.

I mean, you’re entitled to have that opinion, and I also understand the logic behind it. But this conversation wasn’t started with “us” saying it needs another name.

I do see your point, but in this specific situation the genre already has an accepted name

Are there any other genres named after games? I’d say rogue is the exception.

I think the “rogue” in rogue-like refers to the fact that you start over if you die. Not the similarity to the actual game. Am I misunderstanding you?

I think I get what you’re saying, that rogue-like was named after the game and therefore this genre should be named after slay the spire. But I think Rogue named the genre because there wasn’t anything else like it. Slay the Spire is still at the end of the day a mashup of two existing genres.

I really think it deserves its own genre. Games like Cobalt Core, Balatro, Tower Tactics Liberation, Alina of the Arena and Loop Hero are all unique in their own right and differ greatly in gameplay from Slay the Spire and each other but still hold to the deck building rogue-like core.

Slay the spire is the granddaddy of the genre, but isn’t the single defining example by far.

and we don’t need games anyway as they’re unproductive

So you come to a games community to shit on games and brag about how your shitty OS doesn’t play them?

Make it make sense

Supposedly they will be unlocking all the new heroes for anyone who doesn’t have them yet also. But brand new players will still have to unlock the roster of classic heroes in the same way they do now.

1. This move seems geared towards recovering players they lost when they started locking heroes behind the battlepass. I know two personally who took this news as an invitation to get back into Overwatch just today, so there’s substance there

2. Time spent on brand new accounts to unlock old heroes is most likely a measure to deter smurfs, which is why that’s probably not going to change.

Edit:

3. It also was probably done as a response to the drama they created in competitive modes by making the free tier grind for the new heroes. Not everyone had new or even recent heroes at their disposal, making for inherently unfair games

Once enough people do it, it like playing whack-a-mole on a grand scale. Must have been a big enough problem if they decided that locking whole countries out of the market was a solution.

greedy ass companies like valve who profit out of kids.

Again, and for the last time, you have a problem with the industry. Extreme statements like this reveal what your intentions actually are. If valve is to blame, then by the same logic you would have all but the smallest game devs and publishers not exist for the want of them doing things correctly according to you, and you’d call it a solution.

This conversation is going nowhere, you will not be satisfied.

Also, telling me I’m being doxxed anyway demonstrates pretty thoroughly that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Thanks for that.

EEE has nothing to do with what steam is. Other game stores exist that valve can’t affect on other platforms. You’re just pulling things out of your ass.

And finally, saying the government shouldn’t have to fix something that won’t fix itself, as evidenced by the fact that loot boxes have been an issue for a decade now, and just resorting to shaming people as a method of reprisal, has a name.

You are virtue signaling. And what you are doing here is about as effective as virtue signaling.

Anyway, blame whoever you want. The time you could have changed anyone’s mind here passed with your very first comment, as evidenced by the downvotes.

You’re yelling into the void. Enjoy that.

I’m not in an affected country, but from what I can gather from what happened most recently:

Steam changed their pricing policy in relatively poor countries from localized affordable prices to strictly usd equivalent because people in other countries were using vpns to make accounts in those poor countries to get games for what would be pennies for them.

I don’t remember which countries were involved in the first place, but in those countries now where they don’t make as much money on average, but everything is much cheaper, some steam games can cost the equivalent of a month’s salary.

That’s why the store isn’t viable in those countries anymore.

Edit: Here’s a source

1. Loot boxes aren’t gambling if you earn them in game and don’t buy them. Personally, I believe that micro transactions for loot boxes should be outlawed altogether, but especially for kids. That doesn’t mean the practice of having those in games falls more on steam than the developers who push the practice in the first place.

2. No one is stopping indie devs from releasing their own games. Steam provides a service with tools and structure. Don’t pretend like steam just sells the game and takes a cut.

(3) Telling me to post my information is asking me for a show of good faith in an inquiry you are explicitly making in bad faith to bludgeon your point. There’s no good faith way to assert “well if it doesn’t matter than do it coward”. I don’t want to get doxxed. You don’t get doxxed when a company sells your info. There’s an extremely basic difference and you know it.

You’re just forcing your false equivalency to pretend your point has legitimacy, and in doing so have completely lost any credibility you might have had with me to begin with.

If your argument is in good faith, post yours. Otherwise don’t pretend like my not posting it proves anything except that you’re willing to stoop to bullying to push your point.

4. Why don’t you blame regulations on gambling that enable this behavior in the industry you so clearly despise. You’ll get further petitioning your government than yelling into the void about practices you don’t like.

Deciding that steam is the be-all end-all in the whole system is just asinine. You’ll argue that steam can be better and that’s the only reason you’re saying any of this, but the harsh truth is that steam could be quite a lot worse.

But seriously though, I am completely done with this conversation. You have shown multiple times in every single comment you have made so far that good faith isn’t really a thing for you.

I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish but it certainly isn’t changing my mind. I’m definitely not going to change yours. Someone who makes a comment like “Valve is abducting kids into gambling for greed and profit” isn’t looking to accept logic except in a way that confirms their own bias.

This is pointless.

To add one last thing, even if every part of your discussion lends to legitimate concerns, the statement as you originally made

Valve abducts kids into gambling, mine people data, promotes DRMs and proprietary software. All of that out of geed and seeking profits.

Is just alarmist bs, which is transparently and intentionally trying to make Steam look bad about things that are loosely related to that statement at best.

Valve abducts kids into gambling

Valve isn’t abducting anybody. Game devs are encouraging gambling like behaviors

mine people data

Data you either opt out of the collection of, give freely to everyone all the time, or is illegal to sell

promotes DRMs and proprietary software

“allows” does not equal “promotes”

All of that out of geed and seeking profits.

They exist to make money. Steam costs money to operate. This is not controversial. Every single game company and storefront does else they would release their products for free.

I didn’t mean for this to become another long comment. I think it’s absurd that you are nitpicking tiny aspects that are theoretical or ethical in origin, most of which steam doesn’t directly control anyway, and playing that off as steam being some evil big bad corporation. It’s dishonest, full stop

I can see the rationality of it. Once anything gets big enough there are always going to be people who look at the flaws and decide that the thing shouldn’t exist or are maybe just upset because they don’t face enough scrutiny.

But also covert marketing is definitely a thing. That is to say that people who may have an interest in seeing steam fail or lose market share one day definitely are a presence on social media that is as open as lemmy.

Steam might not be perfect, but despite what the critics would have you believe, steam is still better than a lot of alternatives.

1. Loot boxes may be similar to, but are not gambling. Compulsion loops in some form are part of pretty much any game. Micro transactions are awful, but they aren’t steams fault for existing. Looking at feedback loops that aren’t in the least steams decision to include, and concluding that steam supports gambling is a reach. You’re mad at game devs for using this tactic, not steam.

2. Being loosely affiliated with games that have DRM isn’t even promotion. Locking games to your library? Really? Are you going to say that steam shouldn’t do what every other digital store front does? Are you suggesting that they open themselves up to piracy by not enforcing that they keep their products confined to the users that bought them? So what, steam is supposed to just give their games away?

3. Most of that information can be discovered about you through a background check. Steam isn’t selling your credit card info. That’s nowhere close to legal. Hardware information and ip aren’t protected information. You blast that to the world every time you get on the internet unless you are explicitly using a browser that stops it. First of all, nobody is going to pay for information your browser gives for free. Secondly, just because they collect that information doesn’t mean they’re selling it in the first place. And thirdly, even if they were selling “chat logs and browser history”, if just being able to collect that data means that they must be selling it, you better not be using discord or lemmy or any other non-encrypted medium to talk to your friends, because they’re all selling your conversations for fractions of pennies. That doesn’t sound a little paranoid to you?

4. No, what I’m saying is that you aren’t mad at steam. You’re mad at the industry. If you’re trying to affect change, flaming steam on an almost unknown social media site for doing something that’s industry-standard like marketing to kids is missing the target so hard you might as well be talking to the moon.

5. Again, steam is hardly exploiting anyone. Every single point you made is an industry standard that steam isn’t explicity stopping.

Look, I made all my points. It’s abundantly clear that you’re just angry because of the state of the industry as a whole. That’s your right. But the more you try to dishonestly paint steam as actively malicious when it’s pretty obvious they’re just another company, and a less invasive one than most at that, the less inclined you are to change my mind.

I’m out.

Ok, let’s take this point by point:

1. Steam doesn’t allow actual gambling. It’s illegal in the US and they typically don’t sell games that are not legal in the US. Conflating other types of games as gambling when there is no actual money on the line is a dishonest and transparent attempt to make steam look bad

2. Valve has no control over the DRM policies of the games that they sell. Valve creates an anti-cheat and that’s about as involved as they get. DRM is a gaming company corporate decision not publisher or distributor. If simply allowing DRM is what you mean by “promoting” then that is another count of dishonesty.

3. What data can they possibly mine? They get an email address, some gameplay time, location data, and Hardware data. All of this stuff is pretty freely available and doesn’t really sell for anything, nor is it really violating any privacy. And besides that, you can directly opt out of Hardware surveys.

4. Asserting that video games are a problem for kids and that steam is evil or profit-driven because of that is also pretty dishonest given that there are basically no game distributors that keep kids from playing video games. What you are essentially saying is that we should start doing like China does and limit kids ability to gain at all. Even then that is a government regulation and not at all on steam.

I would like to just point out the absurdity of saying that kids should not be able to play video games because of steam. For the last 40 years video games have been marketed primarily to kids. Are you going to say the same about Nintendo or Atari? Are you now asserting that companies shouldn’t Market to kids at all? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

5. To round it all off, literally everything you listed are things that every gaming company or distributor does in some capacity and does not make Steam different or worse. It sounds like you just have a problem with the industry in general

I’ll never understand why some people look at the fact that steam is popular because of their policies, and can’t help but make a comment like this equating that popularity to cock worship.

Like, we get it bro. You’re thinking about cocks and you’re mad about a half decent game store. What compelled you to combine those thoughts on a public forum?

The weird thing is that this isn’t even the first comment I’ve seen like this. Dudes that are mad about steam want everyone else to know about steam’s massive, throbbing cock for some reason. This guy alone has posted 3 of these.

I’ll never understand why some people look at the fact that steam is popular because of their policies, and can’t help but make a comment like this equating that popularity to cock worship.

Like, we get it bro. You’re thinking about cocks and you’re mad about a half decent game store. What compelled you to combine those thoughts on a public forum?

The weird thing is that this isn’t even the first comment I’ve seen like this. Dudes that are mad about steam want everyone else to know about steam’s massive, throbbing cock for some reason. This guy alone has posted 3 of these.

For another hot take, I’d recommend anyone looking at unicorn overlord to give Symphony of War: Nephilim Saga a try.

The battle system is built extremely similarly, I dare say even better, and the overworld is fire emblem like instead of rts like unicorn overlord.

Hot take: I’m playing unicorn overlord and started it after I read this article a couple days ago. It’s honestly not that bad.

The story itself feels a little shallow, being about 10 hours in. Aside from a certain character being “abducted”, I really haven’t perceived any risk so far. It seems like every decision I make is a no-brainer with consequences only appearing if I make the obtusely obvious wrong decision.

Story and writing wise, it isn’t really the shining example of jrpgs to begin with, so the localisation just seems like a footnote so far.

The gameplay loop is pretty satisfying though, which is why I’m still in it. I’m ready for the writing to mature into a darker game and hoping that this first “chapter” is just a light beginning. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t happen.

To be honest, if I were going to be offended at anything in this game, it’d be the jiggly boobs on half the girl units for no reason and the overtly sexual way that the witch class character just… Stands there swinging her hips? But I’m not one to even care that much about eye candy. But it’d make a better complaint to me than overly-shakepearean localisation.

From my understanding, it’s just one guy who bought the whole thing and believes that anything cartoon/comic related isn’t relevant anymore. He’s trying to move wb into the “reality tv” era.

All of which is really stupid because wb is literally only known for its century-long run of pretty good cartoons and comics, and its reality aspect was so bad that they had to brand it off of wb, which is what the cw is.

So yeah, this one guy is running wb into the ground and destroying one of the biggest animated repositories on the planet because he “doesn’t like cartoons”.

I’m so burnt out on games using the same three pantheons when there’s a genuine trove of them out there

Based on that can I recommend Dominions to you? It’s like civ and battle simulator had a baby, but the civilizations are based around fictionalizations of actual lore from a wide variety of cultures. And you get to create a god to lead them in each game.

Dominions 6 is the newest one, but 5 is just as good, cheaper and has a more sprawling mod scene.

Fair warning though, it’s an incredibly complex game and definitely has a learning curve.

Based on experience dealing with people outside the US for my job, I’d say this person is implying whatsapp as the alternative.

I personally don’t see the point from within the states, given that whatsapp forces you to connect your number to it anyway.

I don’t disagree with you. All I was really saying was that Overwatch specifically wasn’t making money with its model

You’re right. It is a matter of perspective though. For the actual players, absolutely. It’s always better to have self hosted matches and control the content yourself. But even in my example above, Overwatch could not sustain itself as a studio on the buy-once model, even with loot boxes. I still think they’re doing it wrong and it fucking sucks, but the buy-once model lead to a developmentally dead game for a few years.

From game dev perspective, having a model that makes money over time allows the game to continue being updated without investment from outside sources.

Well yeah. Games that are inherently multi-player and not split screen and feature an aspect of matchmaking are obviously fine to be always online games as a service.

Although personally the games-as-a-service model is something I avoid even in those. Overwatch was made objectively worse when it went from the buy-once model to the pay-once-a-season-or-you-dont-get-the-new-hero model. Mauga is completely busted right now and every new introduction of a hero since 2 launched has felt exactly like this-- busted while paid-only players have access and then fixed after the free players get a chance.

It’s the model. Squeezing money out of players is slowly killing even multi-player games like Overwatch.

It’s completely and utterly unacceptable for single player games.

Dominions (Dominions 6 just came out, but it’s an iterative game so try 4 or 5 first)

So it’s like civilization and battle simulator had a baby, where armies are managed by the unit and there are simulated battles of thousands.

But all the civs are loosely based on different existing mythologies and there’s a crazy complex magic system

Oh, and you get to create a god that you can totally battle with.

If you like civ-like games, it’s a really unique and satisfying twist on the genre with an incredible amount of sheer depth.

Oh this is a neat game I’ll just build this little gun turret and oh my god 14 hours have passed

If you haven’t already, give divinity original sin 2 a try. BG3 was built on the back of a game just as complex and satisfying, with a ton of the same exact mechanics, that went under appreciated because Larian wasn’t a big studio with a well known ip.

You can catch it on sale pretty regularly for like $5. I bought it on release back in the day and I still play through that game like once a year.

I mean, there’s a necklace for guidance. Clerics are pretty useful though.

I’m not really commenting on how the actual game was, just the hype building up to it. Nintendo consistently teaches a masterclass on hyping their IPs. Whether or not the game was good, or worth the money, is an opinion beside the point.

In the same vein, people call starfield “fallout but in space” and “fast travel simulator 2023”. There are plenty of things to criticize there too. But I honestly think the reason those criticisms weren’t taken in stride like totk was is because of all of bad hype surrounding the release. People expected a lot more.

That’s what hype does. Hype can be good if the end product lives up to it, or the hype isn’t so potent. Tears of the Kingdom comes to my mind for this. The hype was more like “it’s coming, we think it’s going to be cool” and a couple of gameplay vids. Then their reputation combined with the understatement of how good the game actually was created a wildfire of good hype.

Starfield was like “PREPARE YOURSELVES FOR THE BEST GAME EVER MADE, IN THE WORKS FOR HALF A DECADE, YOU’LL NEVER PUT IT DOWN, GAME OF THE YEAR GUARANTEED” and created a ton of bad hype. Bad hype is good for sales, but creates unrealistic expectations and makes a lot more people go “meh” once they find out what it is.

Let me tell you a secret: bad hype is intentional. All that matters to a studio is how much they sell, not that players continue playing.

Bad hype makes players stop talking about a game pretty quickly.

Any more manipulative than a ceo making the decision to axe a functioning and profitable licensing structure to implement a new one with more dollar signs?

If you told me the same exact ceo made the layoff decision, I wouldn’t be surprised.

When you get paid in 6-7 digits annually, ideas start to form that the peasants aren’t paying you enough of their 2 digits.

He’s out of touch and thinking about profit, like the blizz ceo pushing games-as-a-service

The very first time a game tells me I have to pay for something with real currency in game that isn’t purely cosmetic, it gets dropped. It’ll be a cold day in hell before I let a game tell me that the blue triangles are mtx only.

When has Bethesda ever released patches to fix anything short of game breaking bugs? And even then more often than not they don’t fix those.

I mean, some of the most popular mods for fallout 4 and skyrim were community patches. I’m not saying I agree with that practice, just that this is par for the (shitty) course for Bethesda. Starfield probably won’t be an actually good game until there are thousands of mods for it.

It’s unfortunate to see devs have to abandon and retool their projects because of a really stupid decision some ceos made, but the model they were trying to impose needs to die swiftly and burn bright enough to clearly send the message that that kind of bullshit won’t fly.

Make no mistake, other game engine monetization teams were watching this happen. The only way to stop that kind of extortion is to make an example of the one who tries it first.

I hope unity dies hard, so that we never have to see that stupid ass pay-per-install model again.